How about an UBI instead of minimumu wage and welfare?
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Wouldn't this cleanse the illegals too?
>an UBI
Stop this
but if some lowlife wasted their UBI on drugs then they would still require welfare otherwise society would be forced to deal with the resulting vagrancy.
People who blow their welfare money on drugs aren't given more welfare
...but I don't need a UBI
This. Welfare queens are a bullshit concept.
Just find me a fucking job and i'll be fine.
then they will just live on the streets and commit crime to get by is what I'm saying you fucking retard. The crimes they commit cost society money.
>Remove the incentive to seek employment but require that those who remain employed pay for everyone else
Gee wiz what the fuck could possibly go wrong
how about you dont work, you dont eat
How about UBI but the only people who get it has to have a job. Who should someone work if they get enough to live? Seems like a flawed system to me.
>UBI
Only for the ethnostate or we'd run out of natural resources.
the very concept of UBI makes it impossible to not give it to niggers, so no.
Minimum wage and welfare only to those who contribute to society
So basicaly most of worlds goverments should die of starvation.
again
You fucking mentally retarded brainlets.
Unless you are ready to summarily execute everybody who would otherwise require welfare and leave their bodies rotting in the streets these people will cost society money one way or another.
people are hoarding so much wealth that they could never spend it in a lifetime, and they spend amounts of money securing and investing it that could otherwise feed people and keep them off the streets and educate people to be productive members of society
So the real criminals are the billionaire class.
money isn't a natural resource
Most of our worlds government officials truly deserve nothing less
just like communism only works in post-scarcity civilisations... and we're nowhere near that.
and just like communism at first it will seem to work, but the disincentive to work and the unfair distribution of wealth from rich to poor will destroy the nation within a few generations.
yes, im a nazi
Food is.
you get 1 penny
must be 21 white male
In before some Jew recommends that you should lose your ability to vote or breed if you go on UBI or welfare when the government imports shitskins by the millions.
1. We produce more than enough food globally to feed the whole world and then some
2. Most of our food gets wasted due to inefficiency
3. Food is a renewable resource
What about your average Joe normie with a low tier job?
Joe normie doesn't want to do his job, but it keeps his children out of poverty.
With a UBI, why should Joe normie do his job? What happens to society when nobody is doing low paid jobs? Why will businesses and the rich stay in the country when they are subsidising all the Joe normies? They can just move, and take their money with them, and they will.
Then the state can't pay for the UBI anymore, so they lower it or tell Joe to work again.
Thing is, Joe doesn't like that. Joe doesn't understand the complexities, but Joe got used to not working and free money. So Joe and his friends start a protest which becomes a riot, and everything goes to shit.
Means tested welfare does that better than UBI.
What happened to the invisible hand? The invisible hand of the free market should guide society and the business landscape to the path most beneficial to society regardless of the circumstances.
>keeps his children out of poverty
joe normie just doesn't have any children nowadays
1. Humans would reproduce until there is not enough food to feed everyone.
1. for now.
2. for now
3. for now
The free market is global, which means they're free to fuck right off to another country that isn't displaying suicidal tendencies
no, that's idiotic. just nationalize basic necessities like healthcare, then you don't need money for that stuff, so there is no need for an UBI
Maybe the idea of economic co-determination is something that we should have taken from the Nazis. Perhaps we should place a higher value on our heritage and future both instead of worshiping economics. And perhaps any retard who thinks allowing some business to save 1 cent to export manufacturing to third world countries at the cost of the eventual suicide of our society should be thrown into a room with a bunch of Zyklon B.
And food and housing? Seems inefficient.
Perhaps it's simpler to avoid the nonsensically greedy ideas that would lead to such an outcome in the first place, UBI among them. They say prevention is better than cure, after all.
It's too late for that. People are brainwashed retards and think economics is a hard science.
Heres an idea. Be a productive faggot instead of a neet/junky/dumbcunt
How about no assistance for anyone and if you need help you have to actually ask family, friends, churches, and charities.
>b-b-but then niggers will steal more cuz dey hungry user
Abolishing slavery was a mistake.
>why don't we try these 19th century ideas that didn't work back then but maybe they'll work now because I'm too retarded to pick up a history book
>Too late
Nah. No offense mate but I think that's a flair for drama speaking. Though I understand the sentiment.
Joe normie has never and will never understand economics at a basic level.
In what way did they not work? The economy was way more stable and poorfags actually worked instead of drinking corn syrup and acquiring diabeetus.
nigger
Pic reminds me of Sabin from FF6.... That is all.
I think we should feed,shelter and educate our own people.
Why not a system where only Tax-payers and children of tax payers(until idk 18-25) are the only ones allowed to receive?
well in normal countries there already is social housing and public kitchens, or whatever that's called in english. that's just enough. i don't mean complete nationalization.
on the other hand implementing an ubi in places like america or bongland, where all this stuff is completely privatized, would just result in prices rising, and the ubi would quickly become worthless
The money for this literally doesn't exist.
UBI would kill all of us. Some people are just poor with money and should not have it. You can make people die by giving them money if they have no self control. Violent crime would implode at levels never seen before. Videogames just aren't sufficient.
And you would nationalize healthcare in a similar manner? So only the poorest of the poor and the neediest of the needy get free healthcare? Isn't that the system America has?
Frankly would work much better. all of the welfare programs are for the government workers, not for their recipients. If you cut out layers of bureaucracy, you'll be able to make UBI just on the basis of all of the useless government employees you fired.
its more honest
give you 200 dollars and you can fuck off.
>work 8h/day
>2300€/month after taxes
vs
>don't work
>800€/month
Current system in Finland. Most everyone prefers the option A strangely enough.
What metric will be used to suddenly decide that it's time for you get other people's stuff for simply existing as a lazy fuck? 99% of everything sold in stores is already created by automation and human operated restaurants did not become obsolete when we invented the technology necessary for a machine to flip over a piece of meat and take orders. And what has happened as automation increased? Our quality of life improved. Far more people are dying from obesity than starvation in the USA. Starvation isn't even really measured anymore by the US government, it's not "food security\variety". If you eat too many hotdogs and not enough peas, you are "food insecure", meanwhile there are fucking skeleton children roaming most of the world.
Just print it???
>What happens to society when nobody is doing low paid jobs
They get paid better and people will want to do them again, instead of seeing CEOs making billions of $$$ we'll see plumbers, sweepers, cleaners, trash collecters making more money.
>Most everyone prefers the option A strangely enough.
This is what retards afraid of UBI don't understand.
UBI is the last redpill Jow Forums needs to swallow.
The left hates UBI because it would completely destroy their union bullshit. The right hates UBI because they cannot fathom anyone not being a wageslave.
People WANT to work, they just don't want to work for a shitty salary when the top 1% make more in 1 minute than they'll do in their entire lives.
UBI is NOT communist/socialist, it's ultimate freedom.
And "trickle down economics" is a jewish lie, fuck off.
Oh and what about Alaska petrol money for their residents? It's essentially UBI.
Ha
The money moves overseas, Pierre.
user, the invisible hand of the market doesn't actually exist.
Successful/honorable completion of Mandatory National Service before any bennies
>nobody got a vote on how many worthless kanglets Queenyisha would spit out of her nasty Boon-coot
>the left hates ubi
UBI so far is the only solution I see to automation
UBI is coming anyways
7 billion people and counting and we're on the verge of replacing most jobs with automation in the next 100 years or so.
So it's either UBI or something similar, literal genocide or nothing, you have those 2 options.
And no, there is no more upwards mobility left of people moving to different jobs. You cannot sustain an economy with 7 billion artists, that doesn't work.
Only if you let it.
How about you get a bullet and problem is solved?
Here's a thought; depopulation. We have too many useless eaters occupying small cramped spaces
>Human lives are like dollars; the more there are, the less value each has
They tried to stop it in the early days of the Soviet union. They tried VERY hard, and a lot of people died in the trying. Didn't work.
Also, it's not just local businesses leaving. Foreign investment dries up, foreign companies close down their overseas branches. The money leaves
Alaska's Petrol dividend is literally not enough to live on in absolute poverty eating beans in fucking Alaska you retard, and it's dependent on the oil markets to begin with.
Where's Idaho's oil market? Where's California's? Do you understand how much money is necessary to live even a basic existence annually unless you're living five to a room in Detroit? The money doesn't exist. We can barely balance the budget already.
>implement UBI
>because it's universal, the expenditure goes up
>taxes increase
>hyperinflation causes money to be worth less
>working becomes less worth it
>lazy fuckers from other places move to country for free gibs
>entire economy collapses
great job, retard
Jobs will move to another sector. If what you say was true, the industrial revolution would have forced in UBI. Same basic scenario, technological advancement renderin massive swathes of workforce redundant. Entrepreneurs will find a way to turn manpower into capital like they have in the past under similar circumstances.
you realize that not everyone in the world is white, right?
countries like the USA have niggers to deal with
Automation makes labor increasingly worthless anyway. The problem is what to do with the supply of goods and services if your consumer class is shrinking due to lack of jobs.
Dutchanon gets it.
Where do you get the money for your UBI, you dumb cunt!
That's great when your country is mostly filled with (ethnically homogeneous) people who have a strong work ethic. Start it in a country already full of people looking for gibs and see what happens.
Yes. Definitely. Absolutely.
>Automation makes labor increasingly worthless anyway
wrong
most of the jobs that exist today didn't exist pre-industrial revolution
yeah, america has all this social stuff on paper, but we all know how it looks in practice.
>So only the poorest of the poor and the neediest of the needy get free healthcare?
not exactly like this. i can see some serious flaws with this system. more like, a poor health insurance is given to everyone, if you want a better one you have to pay to a private company.
my poor eastern european country has something like this
You can be damn sure that shlomo's going to raise rents if UBI was ever enacted
UBI replacement in most developed countries would double the existing welfare bills.
Historically you may be right but that does not guarantee that trend continues.
Automation has in fact replaced jobs. We can historically confirm this. We may be able to say that other jobs were also created alongside to offset this, but will that continue to be the case? I do not think it will always going into the future.
Most of the jobs existing during industrial revolution don‘t exist today though.
>that flag
>that message
kys
Sage
yeah and most of the jobs existing today will vanish and the jobs of the future will be completely different than we can imagine today
people are just scared of changes they don't understand, and socialists/communists are using that to push for their retarded political agenda
>the jobs of the future
The only problem with this is the assumption that as in the case with the industrial revolution, there will be enough new jobs (quality well paying ones at that) to offset the loss of old jobs.
I'm failing to see what new jobs will replace manual laborers.
unironically, the market will fix it
the same way new jobs replaced all those lost during the industrial revolution, the modernization of agriculture, etc
If you implement UBI, you kill the incentive to innovate. The nation that does not implement UBI will be incentivised to innovate. They will have a workforce that they absolutely must employ. Investors and innovators will build the new industries in such a country.
Manpower may always be converted into capital, and so the nation that actually uses its manpower will inevitably hold an advantage over the nation that does not.
This is in addition to the flight of the wealthy from the nation with UBI, as previously discussed.
There are good reasons UBI is not seriously considered. It's great vote-winning bait for the lazy and shiftless, but it can never be implemented as it is an act of gross national self-harm.
Explain how. Seriously I'm very curious about this one.
What new jobs do you foresee replacing all of the manufacturing and transportation jobs?
Trade restriction, technology restriction, and "shovel ready" jobs would work better.
Problem with UBI is that a significant portion of the human population gets mentally and physically sick if they don't feel like they are doing some useful work, and another significant portion of the population gets extraordinarily angry at the thought that they are working to pay for someone else to not work, and while we can kind of, sort of, test for which you more likely to be, there's no way to predict what set of circumstances would cause such a reaction in any one individual person. So it will fail catastrophically.
People calling for UBI never understand that the real problem isn't economic.
>haha go- I mean Kevin I'm raising rents you'll need to pay double now
>that's cool
>yes I understand your frus- that's cool?
>yeah I just bought this bitchen tent and thermal sleeping bag so that's what I'll be doing from now on.
>b-but its dangerous you need walls goy!!
>nah its cool brah, life sucks getting stabbed to death doesn't sound all that bad when you really think about it
no
youre that shill posing as an ancap fuck off
What's the difference?
You could argue that most full time jobs can be split to amongst more people since they won't need so much income from a job. This would give them more time to raise a family and bring more kids into the world. In many western countries lower skilled workers have to decide between having enough money to get by or having kids with enough time to decently raise them.
I agree with others if you had UBI you would need to close borders almost entirely though.
Do you think it will become impossible, totally impossible, to extract any profit whatsoever from the physical or mental labor of the average man?
Do you think that every industry that can be created, already has?
Do you think your average man in 1800 would have considered what it would be like to work for Google?
>Close borders
Soviets tried. The money left.
>Do you think it will become impossible, totally impossible, to extract any profit whatsoever from the physical or mental labor of the average man?
Potentially yes which is why I am genuinely concerned. If automation becomes cheaper than manual labor, there wouldn't be a natural market incentive to hire the physical or mental labor of the AVERAGE man.
>Do you think that every industry that can be created, already has?
No but we are hinging our future on a speculation for which we really can't measure a probability for.
>Do you think your average man in 1800 would have considered what it would be like to work for Google?
No but the coal miner also didn't percieve that people would move away from coal.
You haven't really answered my question. It seems your answer is simply, faith that new industries will pop up with enough demand for human labor to offset the loss in manual labor due to automation.
Why you still feeding your goverment, schmuk?
My answer is that the historical precedent for job creation is sound, under similar circumstances. The agricultural revolution is another example.
As explained in if this so far unbroken historical trend holds true, the nation that does not implement UBI will hold significant advantages.
It's true that I can't predict the future, but neither can you, and at least I have precedent on my side. This is not without value, and UBI would be a high risk low reward gamble.
If it's ever implemented, it would be a port of last call after at least a generation searching for alternatives.