CAPITALISTS DON'T CREATE. THEY STEAL

Provide me with a coherent argument or be silent. Also Vojvodina is Serbian now and forever.

The solution to current problems is to tweak the capitalist system, rather than to replace it with failed ideologies from a hundred years ago. The only thing communism produces is free starvation for everybody. Btw all of you commies do realize that even Marx thought that capitalism is the more productive system right?

>le "the only thing that has value is labor and all profit comes from shorting the value of labor" meme

Question that confuses the communist:
Why are consumers willing to pay the same amount of money for a product even if labor costs to produce or deliver the product are decreased via automation? It's almost as if the consumer doesn't actually give a shit about how much labor goes in to their goods and real value is actually a negotiated figure (where what an owner is willing to sell for and what a purchaser is willing to buy for meet).

no and no you mutt your kind doesnt deserve human treatment just like the serboaches

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Excellent, now that you've conceded the argument, maybe you'll go make like a Magyar and do nothing important for 600 years.

we are

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Helping the bankers who own you BLACK Europe and turn America into Mexico is "something," I suppose.

Communism and fascism will never be achieve cuz all supporters of each ideology are free riders.

>The shareholders of the business do. If they could pay CEOs less, why wouldn't they?
It's because capitalists have hijacked the boards of directors in all major companies. Policies like golden parachutes literally make no sense from a motivation point of view. You would want to provide disincentives against, you know, KILLING THE WHOLE COMPANY. But since executives run the company, they will profit no matter what happens.

>alternative way to determine value

Eliminate the stock system and make it so that all profits go to workers (not necessarily equally distributed). Also give workers full voting power over their companies.

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>> Doesn't understand shit about how the economy works and pushes conspiracyfag ideas like an entitled nigger
Shouldn't have dropped out of community college retard

No offense btw.

tell me are you 8% serbshit or smth and you suddenly have such pride in your mutt head
> usa dying is bad

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Can't you NEETS think of something better than socialism with all your free time?

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I support cooperative enterprises, not unlimited free money for everyone. You would get paid more on average and have more power over the management, but you would still get kicked out of a co-op if you did no work.

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>wanting good healthcare free education and better public infrastructure is bad
dios mio

jewish banks.

jewish banks are the reason but you keep harrasing company ownners becouse you are one retarded faggot with no understanding of economy whatsoever. in result banks own even more and you get payed less while have to pay more

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People decide the value of money and pretty much everything.When everyone believes a 100 dollar note is only worth 50 now then guess what

no thats what right wing capitalism demanded, which is why our first world pay sucks and why all our neighbors are black or mexican. We are trying to stop you idiots.

To avoid being taxed by socialist retards like you?

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...

1: Capitalists are motivated by making money. Why do they care about CEOs? CEOs are not Capitalists, they're employees. They don't own anything. You are now accusing Capitalists of overpaying employees on purpose. Do you not see the inherent contradiction of your position?

2a: That isn't a way of determining value, that's a moral demand. If you accept my definition just say so, that'll make all of this easier.

2b: Why should we do this? Workers do not invest capital into their companies, they are not responsible for the failure of their companies. If the water treatment plant I work at goes 10 million in the hole and goes bankrupt, I, one of 5000 employees, am not expected to pay any part of that 10 million dollars. Do you not see the appeal of this system? Most businesses fail. Many businesses fail very, very badly. Additionally if not all revenues should be divided evenly, then who gets to decide how evenly? What if 51% of the workers vote to distribute 90% of the profits to themselves, and 10% of the profits to the other 49%?

Moreover, if you think this is a good idea, why not simply start a business that operates like this? It's perfectly legal within a Capitalist system.

>Eliminate the stock system
So, disallow people from investing in companies and companies from having investors? Seems like a good way to make consumer options shittier.

If gommunism isn't just a meme, worker owned businesses should have no problem competing with publicly traded companies. After all, they work just as hard, and all good communists know that only labor has value. Therefore, whatever sneaker or laptop they make should be able to sell for as much as Jordans or a Macbook Pro.

Are you under the mistaken impression that the United States becoming a castizo futurist empire ruled by Jews is going to somehow be *better* for the world than it is now?

Oh wow. Really?

Really, so you're saying you're in favor of racial nationalism, but you're also a Socialist?

If so, then congratulations we're on the same side, Heil Hitler.

>To avoid being taxed by socialist retards like you

There is something wrong with a system where capitalists can literally STEAL MONEY FROM A COUNTRY. If Crapistan has a 1% tax rate and we have a 2% tax rate, then they move all their money to CRAPISTAN and fuck over all Americans.

>Supports Co op
Are you sure your a commie? Have you forgot
>Work according to their ability and give according to their needs.

Not to mention, communism isn't suppose to have money.

There's an easy solution to other countries having a higher tax rate: Lower yours.

this

Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the same globalist jew coin

Or even better, people should stop spending on useless shit.

anyone who is still a supporter of capitalism now, after the game has been in motion for so long ands you have no real chance because you started too late and the rich have all the wealth is an idiot.

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>imaginary economics

You can't have a functioning military with such a low tax rate. We pay for military protection for other countries while they take all the profits from our companies.

How is that fair? Should we disarm the whole US just to lower taxes and stop money from leaving the country? Tax shelters like Bermuda don't need a military. Don't you see where this is going to lead?...

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>wages are flat
They are flat since the 60's. Hmmm, I wonder what happened there, it is as if someone has doubled the working force, what a mystery. And also as if someone has made steps to devalue the traditionaly heavy industry and maintenance jobs. Another mystery.

Jokes aside, congratulation communist swine, you have gotten exactly what you fought for back then. So enjoy, and remember - no human is illegal, borders are a social construct, and women are just as capable as men!

Rejecting consumerism is also an option yes, but for that to work you'd have to reject Materialism, and you certainly aren't going to do that as a Communist, no no, that would require transcendent thinking. Materialism is the name of the Communist game.

Now if only there were a deliberately anti-materialist anticapitalist movement... Damn, struggling for words here.

>If Crapistan has a 1% tax rate and we have a 2% tax rate, then they move all their money to CRAPISTAN and fuck over all Americans.

>There's an easy solution to other countries having a higher tax rate: Lower yours.

I have a better solution: CLOSE THE FUCKING BORDERS

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One day the good will win
Dude just save up a few hundred bucks from your job working for Shlomo and start up a business to compete with the large established corporations like google, amazon, and walmart.

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Communism will win

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>I have a better solution: CLOSE THE FUCKING BORDERS
How is that going to help with trillions of dollars leaving the country?

I'm gripped by terror of not having to play World Police.

But really though, this is a serious question: You're aware that even at the lowest tax bracket, in the United States income taxes are higher than the profit margin of any business in America, right? I pay 20% taxes out the gate. 20%. A business that made 20% profit would have to have invented the cure for cancer AND sliced bread in the same year.

This means that even if we accept that Capital is skimming labor off of the worker, the State skims more. Much more. And they spend it blowing up sand people and giving free shit to lumpenproles.

Why then is all I ever hear out of commies Porky this and Porky that? Why aren't you talking about the government?

Why are you autistic leftypol communist queers even trying? You get blown the fuck out everytime. Just go back to your containment subreddit. This is embarrassing

That is so stupid. If a capitalist, for example, waters down milk to make money, then it's the government's fault for being TOO STRICT?!

AYN RAND IS A RETARD.

Fuck off with these commie threads.

EVERY IDEOLOGY REQUIRES CAPITALISM IF IT HAS THE MOVEMENT OF CAPITAL FOR SERVICES AND OTHER CAPITAL JESUS CHRIST YOU RETARDS CANNOT INTO ECONOMICS

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You could do both. Lower taxes AND close the borders. Labor immigration exists to undercut worker wages and to meet demand. As we've seen, it's better to have a labor shortage than a labor surplus, from the worker's point of view.

But again that would require an ultranationalist view of demographics...

>They have stolen trillions of dollars from workers and alienated people from society.
Yeah but like... most people are fucking retards who deserve to be robbed and exploited. Really, who are you to criticize the global oligarchs for taking advantage of generations of peasants who were stupid enough to sell their freedom and autonomy and very souls for fucking cheap shit at Wal-Mart and dollar meals at McToxicWaste?

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Right now, Communist guerillas are waging war all over the world.

-PFLP
-NPA
-Naxalites
-PKK

>Me?
>Communist?

Nah, I'm a capitalist like you. It's true tho people spend stuff that are useless.

>Be Tyrone
>21
>Man nigga I'm so fucking broke.
>Fuck my boss and his bitch ass for giving me X dollars a both.
>I'll cap his ass.
>Also Tyrone.
>Look at my new Gucci shoes and 200$ gun..
>So cool

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If a Capitalist waters down milk to make money, he will in fact lose money because he is selling shitty milk.

What in fact she means is things like, oh I don't know, the State bailing out failed corporations, or giving them exclusive rights and monopolies by restricting the markets, or allowing them to pollute natural resources but then shielding them from lawsuits.

Of course Ayn Rand is evil for a host of other reasons but in this regard she is correct: The government is always worse than corporations, because corporations have to actually produce things that people want in order to make money--unless they deal with the government. Then the government can simply employ them without consulting the market.

>You're aware that even at the lowest tax bracket, in the United States income taxes are higher than the profit margin of any business in America, right?
Then we can adjust economic policy to make it so that ALL corporate profits are redistributed according to the revenue and cost each corporation makes. We shouldn't ask for the impossible though.

No business has ever made me work for them by force.

Wages are flat because the government keeps fucking taking your money and limiting your rights.

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>How is that going to help with trillions of dollars leaving the country?
They cant legally leave the country if the borders are closed fucking idiot

Add offshoring of dollars/production to the list of actions that equal to high treason. Basically anyone subverting the economy by sending dollars outside the country will be charged with high treason and executed

>that would require an ultranationalist view of demographics...
Good

>he will in fact lose money because he is selling shitty milk
That didn't stop people from doing it, because it entered the wholesaling system and got mixed up, so people didn't know it was happening. That is, until people like Upton Sinclair exposed it. And that's why we have the FDA, because the free market cannot regulate itself.

>jewish capitalists want people to hate capitalists
Imagine thinking this makes sense

Since your here OP, I need your opinion.

What do you think of this guy?

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>Wages are flat because the government keeps fucking taking your money and limiting your rights.
Yeah, it's the "government" that keeps taking your money and limiting your rights.

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>Basically anyone subverting the economy by sending dollars outside the country will be charged with high treason and executed
Not sure I agree with being that harsh, but I can agree there. I misunderstood what you meant by closing the border. I'm still working out my stance on undocumented immigrants at the moment.

Starting a co-op isn't going to prevent WW3, or end ecological degradation. Only the elimination of capitalism achieve that.

So, engaging in a contract is stealing, but taking other people's money by force is not?

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Then there'd be no point to investing since it would by law always be a bad investment, and all industry would collapse.

Have you considered that what you should actually do is A: Nothing, or B: Reduce all taxes?

If people weren't noticing then obviously it wasn't adversely impacting the quality of milk. You're really just saying that we need a bureaucratic class of government busibodies paid with the working class's money to putter around fixing problems that didn't actually exist.

Again, if a corporation does something wrong, why shouldn't they be punished via LAWSUIT? And this would apply equally to both your proposed model of business and mine. Why do you need an agency to fix problems that evidently weren't problems because nobody noticed them?

no matter what capitalism does or does not do it is not communism and thus still at least as good as a decrepit dog turd

and you do not need socialism, you need to die, that will solve your problems probably help a lot of other people too

i have tide pods for sale pm me bruh i mean commutard i mean fag

Yes goy, lower taxes to 0.000001%, that's the only way to make America prosperous!

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Exactly

I'm sure a communist revolution will prevent WWIII from happening, just like it prevented WWII from happening.

As for the environment, if property rights were perfect, you would be able to sue a corporation for polluting the air on your property. Our problem is incomplete property rights.

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Correct. Lower taxes for everybody--as low as is possible while still maintaining basic and unprofitable services that would not be fulfilled by the market.

>undocumented immigrants
*illegal
and theyre not immigrants. Sneaking into a country doesnt make you an immigrant any more than breaking into someones house makes you part of the family

The problem is that tax cuts almost always are used to benefit the ultra-rich more than other people. If politicians talked about only cutting taxes on the poor and middle class, I would be all for it.

Daily reminder that a ethno state and workers state will never works because communism and fascism has free riding supporters.

marxists just lack the scope to comprehend making real money, thats why theyre all dumbshit wageslaves.

You commie.

This

>marxists
anyone who uses that word unironically is a red stater highschool dropout that listens to talk radio

>communism and fascism has free riding supporters.
Co-ops can deal with this problem. If you're a horrible worker then you get kicked out, but if you're a good one then you will make huge amounts of money. I don't support free money for everyone.

>if you don't worship the golden calf of capitalism you OBVIOUSLY wield the iron hammer and sickle of communism
>there's zero ways to take the few good things from each and combine them

>the ultra-rich
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you do not understand how the tax system actually works. Here's a redpill for you comrade.

The government doesn't just collect taxes from the rich and then gib them out to niggers and spics every year. Taxes are collected throughout the year, but the budget is decided upon at the beginning of the year, roger?

So, how is that possible? Spending must begin immediately and the money isn't collected immediately. The answer is, the Federal Reserve.

A group of bankers provides a LOAN to the State in the form of the budget. The State then collects taxes and repays that loan, with interest, to those bankers.

In other words raising taxes doesn't take from the rich and give to the poor, it takes from everyone and gives to the ultra-ultra Rich. You literally cannot redistribute wealth through taxes, because the banks will ultimately always collect the total amount spent plus interest.

All of taxation is a scam. You fell for it.

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isnt it like a big socioeconomic branch of thought?

thats why you go steal for yourself and stop wasting time by just bitching about it.

>communism and fascism has free riding supporters
Fascism takes a no work=no eat approach to this problem

>thats why theyre all dumbshit wageslaves.
Why should certain people be consigned to being "WAGE SLAVES" for not leaving their job? Society depends on people like sewer workers and garbagemen but pays them dirt. You're saying that certain jobs are necessary but that people who work there should be paid very poorly.

>EVERY IDEOLOGY REQUIRES CAPITALISM
lmfao

>A group of (((bankers))) provides a (((LOAN))) to the State in the form of the budget. The State then collects taxes and repays that loan, with interest, to those (((bankers))).
FTFY

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

yeah some jobs are necessary, no shit, but don't fucking whine about how someone else is profiting off your labour when they're the ones that bought your broom and the building you're sweeping.