Capitalism isn't ba-

this has nothing to do with capitalism or politics

I don't have any acorns to give you... could I perhaps borrow some acorns and, after an agreed upon time, give you back that number of acorns with interest?

Child C gives one flute to A then he sends away B to get him raw materials so he can make a new flute.
Now everyone's busy and happy.

Everyone that has more than 2 neurons hate capitalism, because it is unfair, your outcome in life depends on where and from what family you born, in that sense it is just as worse than monarchy
The only ones that defend capitalism are brainwashed reactionaries or the (((bourgeousie)))

C gets the flute and can decide whether or not to trade the flute for other goods or for money.

Manufacturers own all goods until sold.

>Before the records are open and the falsehoods are revealed
Hey y'all we are totes free here. North Korea has a 100% literacy rate! Our healthcare isn't horrible! We have so much food
>After the curtain fslls
Hold on now.... Capitalism caused this. It wasn't like this before you had evidence it was bad

I was born into a lower class family - now I'm a physics post-doc. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's one of the best systems if you want to have any hope of advancing out of the economic class you were born into.

data disagrees with you
nationalreview.com/2013/03/how-measure-social-mobility-thomas-sowell/
> But the very opposite conclusion arises in studies that follow actual flesh-and-blood individuals over time, most of whom move up across the various income brackets with the passing years. Most working Americans who were initially in the bottom 20 percent of income-earners rise out of that bottom 20 percent. More of them end up in the top 20 percent than remain in the bottom 20 percent.
the US is still the land of opportunity, fueled by capitalism
stay salty, loser

-d
Fuck off

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>invented space travel

Nigga please. Rocketry was pioneered by American and German scientists.

I would believe the 100% statistic. Many countries have a 100% or 99% literacy rate. Not all of them particularly wealthy. Generally a few generations of universal education eradicates illiteracy which is quite likely in North Korea. Maybe not 100% but quite possibly 99%

> There is only one unit of wealth, this flute. We, the government, must decide which person gets the flute.
> This metaphor shows capitalism BTFO.
> No the poor kid cant exchange labor for goods
> No the flute maker can't keep his own property by right, we must award it to him if we find his story more compelling than some other beggar's
> No the musical kid can't exchange labor for a flute either, there is only one flute you nosey fucker, stick to the arbitrary parameters of the fucking problem and admit capitalism is BTFFFFOOOOOO
> In communism there would be three flutes and no one would have to work!

Who in their right mind wants a stupid flute?

The entire metaphor is flawed as hell and it's a catch-22 written by some commie fuck anyway, no matter what you answer it can be mental gymnastics into "see you agree with communism"

>Tries to describe capitalism
>Accidentally describes centrally planned economy
Every time.

>In communism there would be three flutes and none of them would work!
Ftfy

>2nd fastest growing GDP
Let's not talk about avarage GDP per capita though. That'd ruin it all.
It had the second fastest GDP because everyone was forced to work, people weren't paid well and very little was spent on food
>0% unemployment
Through force.
>0% homelessness
Because everyone homeless was sent to the gulags
>Saved the world from Nazi Germany
Not a good thing.
>Invented space travel
No. The first space bound rocket was from Germany
>ended the century long famine
Straight up lies
>Higher calorie consumption
Straight up lies
>Ended racial and sexual inequality
Because nobody could care about hate through all that hunger
>Free education
Mandatory socialist indoctrination
>99% literacy rate
You need your citizens to read to be able to consume propoganda
>Most doctors in the world
Unpaid and untrained
>Eliminated poverty
Nobody is poor when everybody's poor, tovarisch
>Doubled life expectancy
Just ignore that it was still lower than the entire rest of the world
>1991 switch to capitalism
You know why everything went to shit? Because when communism ends, the nation is reverted to an early stage of capitalism. Early stage capitalism is not a state you want to live in and is why previously communist nations are shit.

Here's what would happen
>Child 1 pays child 3 for the flute
>Child 3 pays child 2 to gather wood for him to make more flutes with
>Child 1 plays the flute and gets paid for it
>Cycle repeats because there aren't actually just 3 children in an economy.

This.
>Child A/B - Redistribute wealth to those who can use it best/need it
>Child C - Seize the means of production

At some point, Child C received the material to make the flute - it was either given to him under contract to work on it or it was his to do with as he wished. Seeing as the former seems unlikely in this scenario, the flute is his.
>sage

Yeah, most capitalists would argue child C, and commies would twist it "so shouldn't the factory worker get the fruits of his labor" ignoring the fact that he didn't provide the materials or machinery in that situation

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Jow Forums you're a bunch of chucklefucks

you're communists and you don't even know it

c is the communist option, a is the capitalist option ((((("""'merit based"""""))))) and b is the liberal option ((((((("""""needs based"""))))

welcome to Communism Jow Forums we can fight the bourgeoisie together

I've found that socialists often don't understand scale, or rather multiplication.
I have a friend who used to be full socialism and always said "hurr why do companies need millions of dollars durr"
Then one day I got him to realize that if a company employs 50 people at 50k a year, that's 2.5 million in labor expenses. Of course companies are going to work with giant amounts of money it's the only way an economy functions
Surprisingly he actually seemed to listen instead of sperging out with usual communist bullshit

>A is the capitalist option
Ah more commies who don't understand capitalism

in a communist state, production would be at an all-time high and we could afford to give a flute to all 3 children. only crapitalists have to deal with bourgeoisie manufactured conundrums like this because "muh overproduced flutes equals devaluation and loss of muh GDP"

Am I allowed to put my penis inside any of these children?

>Why is the inheritance tax being raised to over 2 million dollars? Who needs that much money?
>Well midwest farmers commonly have holdings in excess of millions of dollars, why should we tax essentially their kids for their parent dying?

Because they only poll people in rich areas

Scarcity will always be a thing and desires will always outweigh resources. Not that I'd expect commies to know the fundamentals of economics

>who needs that much money
That fucking argument always drives me up a wall because anyone who knows even the slightest bit of how economies and business works doesn't ask it.

>more Jow Forumsyps who don't understand capitalism
fixed that for you

keeping sucking bourgeois cock

the united states of israel needs that money

How would it be capitalistic to take the flute from the person who made it and give it to A? Why don't you explain yourself instead of saying I don't understand

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>catholicism
Fucking kek

capitalists own factories where he employee workers who build flutes for him which he sells a profit through sheer legal fiction "private property"
>but who harvested the materials?
workers
>but who processed the materials?
workers
>but who transported the materials?
workers
>but who made the machinery the flute factory uses?
you guessed it...workers again :^)

the bourgeoisie are parasites who exist solely through legal fictions that are inherently a scam :)

>durr the rockefellers need the money to create jobs

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-sed?

Who owns the land where the materials are? Who purchased the factory? Who pays for the transportation of goods to retail outlets? Who paid to market the goods?

Plus you didn't actually answer my question about how A is the capitalist choice. Try starting there.

You do need money to create jobs. What Neocons do with that argument is the fallacy that everyone with a lot of money must be creating jobs, this isn't explicitly true.

see of course you show you dont understand a thing. capitalism is based around voluntary exchanges. the worker exchanges his labor for currency. he is free to keep what he earned though said transaction. and free to do something else, free to make his own flutes and keep them. in capitalism kid b sells his flute to kid a.

>Who owns the land where the materials are? Who purchased the factory? Who pays for the transportation of goods to retail outlets? Who paid to market the goods?
capitalists through the legal fiction of private property, it is inherently a scam used to exploit the actual producers, the ownership class is extraneous and barely adds any value to the business they own via legal fiction
>Plus you didn't actually answer my question about how A is the capitalist choice. Try starting there.
A is the actual capitalist option because capitalists claim the system is merit based but it is not it a system that I based on legal fiction and the theft of the surplus only the worker creates

the entirety of capitalism revolves around the enforcement of legal fictions via state backed violence (police)

Why are communists consistently the most retarded people on this site?

Capitalism
>C sells the flute to A. A charges a fee for B and C to listen
Jewish capitalism
>C patents the flute design, loans the flute to A with compound interest. using the profits from A, C teaches B how to make the flute using cheap materials. B sells a flute to A for practicing, but most of the profits go to C. A charges a fee to listen, putting B in debt. A gets a splinter, sues C. C apologizes, blames And fires B, makes a premium quality flute, sells to A at 2x the value
Ideal communism
>C makes 3 flutes. Now everyone has a flute
Communism implemented
>C makes 3 flutes. A takes all 3 and plays them locked in his room

d

stupid fuckin' nigger

>private property is legal fiction
See >Capitalism is based on merit
No its fucking not you retard. It's based on voluntary exchange.
>C makes flute from materials he owns
>C is rightful owner of flute
>C has no use for flute however
>A is able to provide something C wants and will trade it for the flute
>both parties agree
>A gets a flute and is happy, C gets something they wanted and is happy

Wrong solution

Child C should patent his flute carving process and flute design so Child A and Child B can't sell and produce counterfeits.

capitalist system is not voluntary it is based on either accepting the legal fiction of private property or starving the in the streets homeless

the ownership class literally owns everything and threatens you with starvation and homelessness if you do not adhere to their legal fiction it is not voluntary exchange it is extortion

>ownership class literally owns everything
If I have a house I've paid off, I own it. Nobody can come up to me and say "you don't live here now, this belongs to someone else" because the law protects me.

Now guess what system has done what I just described?

That’s not an argument. Property absolutism doesn’t make sense since it’s merely a social construct. For example if you come accross an abandoned shovel in a desert, can you determine who own it? Of course some concepts of property are necessary in order to organize society.

people get their houses repossessed after missing a handful of mortgage payments by predatory Jewish banks

you may one day pay off your house and car in full but all of the important land and factories were bought and sold 100 years before you were born

your only chance to actually be on the same level of the bourgeoisie is either to hit the jackpot on the lotto or become amazingly succesful at a business of your own (winning the lotto is far more statistically likely)

>Ideal communism
you mean ideal socialism? If it's communism then I would end up keeping the flute to myself

Capitalism is about opportunity. Any dipshit can be their own boss and create their own company. It just takes charisma, talent, and a bit of luck. In capitalism and communism, the government fucks you in the ass either way. But at least capitalism produces things for profit rather than for necessity.

>ownership class

am I the ownership class for owning a car? am I the ownership class for owning a house? a shop? when does someone become part of the ownership class?

where is the extortion? that people dont throw free shit at me? I dont throw free shit at them either. if ownership is legal fiction, would you share your toothbrush with someone else? your underwear? you leave your door unlocked at all times since your home isnt really yours?
owning property is not just fiction its natural. even wild animals will defend a kill they made from others. its the fruit of their labor and they fight to keep it.

Welcome to Jow Forums the bourgeois is /leftypol/ tier.

Also getting btfo'd hard by everyone here.

>ownership is by default to the creator
Who enforces this? Warlord Bob drops McNukes on all three kids and takes the damn flute. Ownership is to he that can secure ownership.

What stops two of the infringed upon parties to reject your judgement?

Right of abandonment is a thing, and whoever left the shovel is responsible for proving his claim. My claim on a house isn't just my word, there's a physical piece of paper proving it. If someone can prove legally that it was their shovel then it can be returned.

Studies have shown that there is plenty of class mobility in capitalist societies. It's just not something that happens overnight.

Capitalism is the worst economic system on earth, except for all of the other ones.

>But at least capitalism produces things for profit rather than for necessity.
this is true unfortunately. communist states have up until now have been fairly lackluster. I just find it amusing that many people do not question the fundamental assumptions that are the pillars of capitalism (private property and rent seeking)

as for capitalism being about opportunity...I'd say luck is at least 50%. if not more. so you're faced with a choice of either LIVING under a system where rags to riches may happen at the expense of 99% of the rest of world of living under a system where the wealth is distributed in a more egalitarian, producer centric model.

This is why the state has the monopoly on legitimate violence, and why it's important to protect private property from unlawful seizure by the state.

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^

Personal merit and dedication play a much greater role than luck. This has been proven with research.

no you're just a Joe schmo

bourgeoisie are a tiny minority of the population that literally own all of the banks, factories, farm land etc.

you're not bourgeoisie for owning personal property you're bourgeoisie for owning private property

What if someone shows up on your door with an identical document with the difference that they’re the owner? What if the person you show your document to doesn’t accept it for whatever reason, like language barrier for example?

>But the owner has been and will be child C
Wrong. I hold the patent on flute construction, and I will sue the shit out of the little cunt for contravening my intellectual property rights. When I'm done with the little cunt, they'll be making me flutes for free for the next 80 years to pay off the legal costs.

The child who made the flute keeps it, he can lend it to the kid that can play it if he wishes
Duh! that was hard!!!

The state has no such monopoly as it is not guaranteed to be "legitimate" in any way, just that they are able to enforce it. Protecting private property is just decentralization of government functions as pertaining to smaller and smaller scales.

The problem with government is that there's too many rules operating at the wrong scales and not enough competing jurisdictions. California comes to mind. The "size" of government is irrelevant, just that the rules fit the scale at which they are enforced.

this true but maybe we should move in the direction where a man through his merits can one day own a handful of nice houses instead of owning a tenth of the wealth of the globe. at the end of the day no matter how talented Jeff benzos may be at working at a high organizational level he still lives off the back of ordinary workers being worked to the bone

>I was born into a lower class family - now I'm a physics post-doc
But that wasn't due to capitalism. This happened all the time in the Soviet Union too, and when it happened most regularly in the UK - the 50's and 60's - was a time when the nation could justifiably be called socialist.

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>What if someone shows up on your door with an identical document with the difference that they’re the owner?
One of these is a forgery, the court can incestigate. Odds are if you are the legitimate owner other records will confirm yours
>What if the person you show your document to doesn’t accept it for whatever reason, like language barrier for example?
It doesn't matter if the individual personally accepts it, the court accepts it and he is guilty of trespassing or theft

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So rothchild?

Define the difference between personal and private.

youtube.com/watch?v=hxUAntt1z2c

Probably illegal in britain.

I'm not gay a druggie or a tranny the capitalist controlled FBI gets trannies and fags to advocate for communism to make it unappealing to the average worker

>totally ignore the fall of late-stage communism corruption, forcing Russia to switch to capitalism later on

>The state has no such monopoly
That's considered the definition of the state in political science. When the state cannot enforce that monopoly it is what we call a failed state

>in communism there would be only one flute but the five years plans says there are supposed to be three so you pretend there are three while you import two flutes from Khazakhstan but they are poorly construct and are actually guitars but you pretend all is fine because the last guy who complained was shipped to Siberia and you've never seen him again

ftfy Anons

They literally went bankrupt.
No one from the foprmet Soviet Union talks about how great life was you fucking moron.

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Why do people still discuss this stupid fucking image after the first 1.5 times it was posted? Is this the new ebin forced meme? Is this a psyop of some sort that someone is trying to get into our heads?

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I don't get what you're saying, both of those are possible. Some people own one house. Some own several. Some own huge companies.
I personally think monopolies need to be broken up, but that doesn't change the fact that merit and personal choice plays a larger role than luck

No communism and failure through out it's history is unappealing you idiotic moron I would understand if you are natsoc or fascist

>cannot enforce that monopoly
Stupid definition, bro. In that case, Tyrone is infringing on that monopoly every day and nobody in the government can stop him. Half of Europe is a "failed state" thanks to Marouane and company.

It's about scale.

"former"