I dont understand. How can the idea of an absolute, authoritarian, protectionist state. Where the rights of the individual is crushed in favor of the state, not be left?
I dont fucking understand.
How can the right be defined by weaker government, individual liberty and fascism??? Somebody please explain.
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Bc alt right beliefs are based in genocide and delusional beliefs that reflect the cocksuckers who made this country suck so bad ...lol white ppl really believe that white politicians dont hate them too so you stupid fucks practice racism and shit towards us but really they robbing uppity crackers too and call it taxes then send you fucktards to die in war that they pay and benefit from and y’all proudly go do it in the name of America and whiteness lmao
Get out, nigger
>le liberty is right wing meme
grow up kid
the founding fathers were the leftists of their time, retard
How is libertarianism and fascism both right wing?
Left wing "liberty" (even without going that far left) is "liberty unless it hurts someone else's feelings." So it's not really liberty.
libertarianism isn't right wing
...
>
>libertarianism isn't right wing
Yes it is. Fascism is left wing.
The only neo-fascist political movement in power right now are neocons.
Fascism means to glorify war and death on the battlefield. War is part of human nature and the selection process created by war improives humanity. Authoritarisnism isn´t part of fascism but can be a consequence (verry likely) during preparations for eternal war.
It actually is
/thread
No fascism isn´t nececerally leftwing but it can be.
Libertarianism can´t be leftwing without magic.
Rly? Now that does make more sense. I would assume authoritarianism would be necessary for such nationalism.
It is. But the Fascist Left disguises itself by claiming Fascism is Right. Since they are Left, they cannot be Fascist.
It is the same way that Google hid all its evil and dirty dealings by having the company motto of "Don't be evil". Obviously, the company cannot be evil. It says right there, "Don't be evil."
Well, it's because we Russians didn't tolerate whites.
Just look at it, you'll understand
History lesson. The left/right divide concept comes from the french revolution. Those on the right were more pro monarchy and those on the left were republican. Capitalism is a leftists ideology as property rights and freedom of trade were enlightenment ideas. Its basically a distinction between egalitarianism (left) vs hierarchy (right).
This got confused during the cold war because communism is more egalitarian (left) than capitalism. Capitalism is still left compared with ancien regimes, and fascism tried to recreate the sort of hierarchical "cooperative state" of the middle ages. Don't listen to poly sci students that field is a joke.
>the idea of an absolute, authoritarian, protectionist state. Where the rights of the individual is crushed in favor of the state, not be left?
>fascism
The greatest success of the left throughout the 20th century has been to convince people that fascism is a synonym for oppression.
Look at any actual historical examples of Fascist states and you won't see any of these things.
The citizens of Italy under Mussolini had a great deal of personal freedom, as did those living in Spain under the Falangist regime, or the pre-20th century USA, all of which emulated the greatest example of fascism - the Roman Empire.
Right
Wrong
Sometimes, but not always. In theory you could ba a fascist libertarian. It would be ridiculous but it isn´t contradictiory. You would have the belief that conflict/war is good for humans and that it´s part of human nature and would answer by creating a private mercanary army or something and exterminate people for trespassing or something.
How can the modern world even define any of this shit. our ideologies get twisted and warped constantly.
Fascism is kinda left, dont know what the picture of Clinton is supposed to imply since she is a rightwinger.
>people posting in this thread with literally no idea what fascism is but defining it anyway
You are just as bad as leftists with this shit. Why don't you retards define fascism? Explain the governmental structure of a fascist state.
Communism is left wing fascism. Fascism is center / center right. Autoritarianism can be left or right economically. Libertarianism on the other end can be on either side of economics too. (Though I kinda don't get leftie libertarians.)
I think you just described Jow Forums my dude. But you have expanded my understanding. I believe I'm just lost in the contradictions of classic and modern politics.
>if its authoritarian its left wing
Tired of this meme.
Fascism is a worldview, not inherently left or right as both wings can use it.
Read pic related
You're right it is kind of retarded. There is always a "fascist is left wing" thread to try and persuade that fascism or natsoc is bad because its in the same "category" as communism. Just trying to point out why it really isn't.
For one, learn the basis of the political spectrum. Left/right is egalitarianism/hierarchy and there's also up/down which is authoritarian/libertarian. Burgers only think right wing means small government because most of their right wing propagandists are right wing libertarian. And the "fuggin libshits" are authoritarian leftists (Bolshevism).
>Muh individualism
People are stupid and need guidance. There needs to be someone of the highest intellectual level leading their people, and deciding what is best for their people and society. That is the basis of hierarchy, aka RIGHT WING.
There isn't a fixed governmental structure. At it's most basic, Fascism is defined by a highly ethnocentric society and a free market economy.
Everything else commonly associated with Fascism stems from those two points.
It's not necessarily authoritarian either - in both the Roman Empire and 20th century Fascist states, the authority resided in a democratically elected senate.
The first thing to understand is that L&R mean different things in different places. Yuropoors think RW means nationalists and LW means communists because the whole place is such a shithole, those are their only real choices, and is why - to Americans - the whole place is just a socialist nightmare waiting to collapse.
In the US, LW means authoritarian and RW means libertarian: LW democrats want total control over other people because only they know what's best, and RW republicans want people to mostly look out for themselves necause that's what's meant by 'individual liberty.'
Thus fascists like Nazis, who would be considered model LW democrats in modern America, are considered RW in EU/UK because the Old World is simply terrible at working these things out logically.
HTH
>Right wing always means weaker government and upholding individual liberties
Are you retarded?
Magnitude of state power is less important than how it's wielded. The left use authoritarian methods to erase borders, debase morals, erode social trust, undermine religion, and turn the entire dynamic of right and wrong on its head. Fascists recognise this threat and use authoritarian methods to prevent it.
>weaker government
>dictating how you walk talk act look sleep shit shave sing speak etc etc etc
legislating penises and vagynas isnt small government kid
The green corner should be "someone else will rule over you soon"
The way the left and right are defined is this. Right wingers support hierarchy and want to maintain the way things are or go back how they used to be. This can be applied to both libertarianism and fascism because they both support hierarchy (libertarians in the form of private capitalist firms and fascists in the form of a militaristic, imperialist state). They are both conservative because they want to maintain the way things are or go back to how they used to be (libertarians to the mythical time of a 'truly' capitalist America and the ideas of classical liberalism, and fascists famously tried to call themselves the rebirth of the Roman Empire). Basically they are both reactions to leftism. Leftists generally support the progress past current systems in order to create a more egalitarian, equal and just society (you can make arguments that this has often failed, but it is) and has its origins in the liberal revolutions of the 18'th century (especially in America and France). Just like the way the right has different ideologies to preserve or regress society, the left has different ideologies to advance society. These can include more moderate positions like New-Deal democrats and Democratic Socialism, to extreme ideas like Juche and Stalinism. Left wing =/= big government. Take a look at the Paris commune, the Ukrainian Free Territories or Revolutionary Catalonia if you want to see examples of liberty-minded radical leftism. (these societies are leftist because, again, their goal is to do away with hierarchy and create a more equal society). The classical liberals of the 18th century were leftists because they wanted to do away with the hierarchy of monarchy and rule without representation. Modern socialists argue that we need to go further and get rid of the hierarchy created by capitalism.
The idea that RIGHT WING = LIBERTY FREEDUMS AND GUNS and LEFT WING = TYRANY HITLER STALIN NO GUNS NO FREE SPEECH is a very American misconception.
fascism is sorta like right-wing communism.
fascism almost always has right economic polices
fascism values private property and private companies etc, as long as it is good for society
fascism is basically authoritarian right, which definitely exists and neocons are faggoys
Dumb fucking nigger retards like you don’t even know where “left wing” and “right wing” came from. They’re terms from the French Revolution, the revolutionary egalitarians all sat on the left side of the chamber while the autocratic monarchists sat on the right. Does fascism sound closer to egalitarianism or monarchy?
AMERICAN STATE RUN EDUCATION EVERYONE
Because left and right wing division doesn't make any sense. 2D plane is the absolute minimum when talking about politics.
The currently ruling party in Poland (authoritarian socialists) is branded far right because they also happen to dislike immigrants.
The "rights of the individual" is why the West is dying
The green corner should be “mob rule”
Because it is. Fascists can disguise themselves as right wing all they want, but the oppression of the minority that defines fascism is inherently left wing. The more Individual liberty a people have and the less government intervention that is forced on the people, the more right wing the government.
Yeah I wasn't trying to shitpost. Thanks for being helpful.
Fascism is left.
Mussolini who invented Fascism was raised a socialist w/ socialist parents, named after a famous communist.
Came to prominence as the editor of a communist newspaper and a leader in the Italian Communists Party.
He only broke with the party because it was their position that there was to be one unified communist party under the direction of Moscow and he didn't agree with their policies regarding WWI.
Then he started the Fascist party but still considered himself a Marxist till the end.
Nigger read the thread before you post a bunch of bullshit and embarrass yourself
>How can the right be defined by weaker government, individual liberty
It isn't. Your definition of the right is historically inaccurate. This definition of right wing government cropped up in the wake of socialism and left wing progressive movements that considered the state to be an apparatus for achieving social goals (integration, equality, feminism, gay liberation, degeneracy, etc.). Mainstream conservatism in the US, rather than counter the goals of the left, decided to attack the means. They didn't have the balls in the 1950s to say integration was wrong, so they just said that it was odious for the national government to dictate integration to the states.
>I dont fucking understand.
fascism can arise from any side of the political spectrum.
Oh i read every post you stupid fuck. You’re all putting your high school level individual spin on the topic which dilutes and distorts the core meaning of left vs right. Left is more government and right is less government, period, end of story.
What's the difference between democracy and mob rule?
I love seeing lefties comparing the current admin to Orwell's 1984
Any political movement or ideology that has race or ethnicity at it's core is right wing. Don't understand how hard that is to follow.
It was understood 100 years ago by everyone, fascists and communists alike. Not sure how you can get confused by something that is understood by children in school.
Fascism has mysticism and a lot of tradition and religion which contradicts lefties who reject tradition and especially religion
Stop searching for labels and instead live by your own ideals.
Left or Right makes no difference if your moral set brings you success and happiness.
Because all the isms are all one side of the same coin
Ok, it's left. Are you happy now?
Anyone saying Fascism isn't authoritarian doesn't understand it at all.
The symbol of the bound twigs, and Mussolini's (and strangely Hillary's) motto was "Stronger Together".
Meaning by binding everyone to groupthink was the way to strengthen society.
Liberals today are demonstrating that they are anything but liberals by not allowing any opinions besides their own. And that bigotry is how fascist keep power, by not allowing anyone to question their motives, authority ect.
fascism IS left
but of course stormweenies and marxists both want fascism to be right wing for obvious reasons
Care to defend your position?
I searched the video on the deep web and it's real.
Rest assured, soon it will be in everywhere.
And here it is. I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, Polkabro.
>there is no other option besides complete anarchy and absolute authoritarianism
Yes, the symbol of Fascism is strength in unity. That means having a nation of people with common roots, common values and common culture - not complete lack of individuality.
What is it with Americans always reducing everything to black-white extremes?
If you believe neoliberal propaganda maybe.
>Libertarianism can´t be leftwing without magic
Libertarianism originally was left wing until propagandists appropriated it for the far right in the 1950s.
>based in genocide and delusional beliefs that reflect the cocksuckers who made this country suck so bad
That sounds like communism, so how isn't it left?
Left-Right placement tends to be the most inane way to consider political systems. Who fucking cares if you consider it "left wing" or "right-wing", if I created a left-right spectrum and put your views on the left would it matter to you? No? Then fuck off.
The fundamental distinction between communism, liberalism, and fascism, the primary modernist political philosophies, are what they take to be the historical subject (class, individual, and tradition respectively).
I don't give a shit if you adhere to left-wing liberalism or right-wing liberalism, you're part of the problem.
Communists will literally unironically tell you that there is *too much* economic freedom under fascism for it to ever be considered "left wing". They also use "left wing" as synonymous with "communist" and "right wing" as "not communism".
Wow, a good post by a leaf, I'm impressed
"If fascism was to ever come to America it would come in the form of liberalism"
- Ronald Reagan
I mean the economic left/right
You could have free gibs without taxes via magic
Lolbertarianism was far left until the invention of communism shifted the overton window.
>and his name was yalbert yeinstein
>then everyone ylapped
Reagan didn't say that.
The right's obsession with smaller government stems from the idea that economic structures on the ground will serve as governance, whether or not they're what libruls consider "fair," and that's certainly not Drmocratic. The attraction is keeping people you don't like from thriving or surviving economically if you and your cabal are powerful enough, which, in much of the USA, is the case.
Horseshoe theory
You may even argue that fascism supports nationalism, but hell, communist Romania was fairly nationalistic so yeah...
>memeflag
>nigger twitter vocabulary
Found a fresh one boys!
Please proceed to the nearest balcony and hang yourself nigger
award for most blue pilled response.
Nearly everything the alt-left says these days is just projection. The alt-left is fascist by it's authoritarian nature. They want to control the industry and commerce, hence movements in support of socialism and occupy wall street a few years back. The favourite tool of these fascists is to silence and suppress all opposition, it's literally the definition of fascism.
>pic related
On the economic axis?
Nah man. Socially? yeah maybe
Private property. That is the quid of matter.
Is not about your liberties. Is about economy.
>Private property + State meddling in your personal affairs= Facism
>Private property - No government in your private affairs -- Libertarianism
>No private property - state meddling in your personal affairs = Communism
>No private property - No government in your private affairs = Socialism.
Dude, are you a newfag? this is the kind of shit you learn after lurking one week. Or in highschool.
Political spectrum i grew up on was two dimensional, move to the left and government strength and control increases, to the right it decreases. Peak left is totalitarian communism, peak right is anarchist chaos.
Recently they created multi-dimensional political scales to assist the left in excusing leftist ideology that was unfavorable/unmarketable as far right...and the dumbshits lapped it up and now its fact because google agrees.
It’s all the same shite
The only word that differs in the "approved" definition of fascism that differs from SJW doctrine, or antifa values is the word "nationalism". These people replaced the nation with their own collective, every other quality of fascism is there, so it should be called as it is.
You've bought into the "fascism = authoritarian" meme. Fascism is not simply a byword for totalitarianism and dictatorship, as so many people use it today. It was it's own political system with a defined world view and economic system, and it was right wing. As long as you make it clear that simply being a dictatorship does not make a nation fascist, there is no need to defend fascism to defend modern conservatism and nationalism
Fascism is socialism. National-socialism is socialism. Socialism is communism.
Communism requires there to be no government, socialism requires massive government, are you retarded?
Read up on Hitler's explanation of the "national-socialism" label. He makes it clear that his socialism means "for the people" only, and is in no way similar to Bolshevik socialism. His overall economic model was basically state capitalism
It's about restoring the empire to its former glory. Do you really think "Make Germany Great Again" is a leftist idea?
it's been awhile since i've seen the word "fucktard". thanks for the nostalgia user
We need to stop using the political scale, its worthless! Facism and national socialism has nothing to do with marxist socialism. Volksgemeinschaft is the real socialism! Its both left wing and right wing.
You attributed the quote to Reagan, and yet he was quoting someone else.
it is
it absolutely is
leftists are bent on opposing nature
and the fundamentally natural rights of Humans are self ownership and, by extension, material ownership
by definition, fascism fundamentally consists in valuing the individual less than the group he belongs to
it's in the fucking name; that's what the handles of the Roman lictor's fasces represented: a bundle of sticks, to picture that where one easily broke, united, they were stronger
fascism really is one of the two teats of leftism, together with theft
But he said it and agrees with the statement. Your response was that he didn't say it at all
“No government” is an impossible meme. It may occur for a period of time under anarchy, but a government will eventually rise from the ashes.
Communists call for unconditional selflessness and reject low instincts that may harm others. They claim the answer is suppression, not control and direction which turned men from their primitive state into industrious and civilized beings in the first place. Then you got an abundance of commodities and unnecessary products were available to everyone. Libertarians claimed it was all good as long as everyone's content but nah. By indulging in materialistic hedonism, the aforementioned control gets lost. You get a society with insincerity, disloyalty and emotional manipulation as a basis to succeed. Even a unified communist outside force would steamroll them. Fascism is simply conscious correction of whether learned or innate, but also poor form and further facilitates the intended drive.
The fact that you still divide politics one-dimensionally says how much of a normalfag you are.
that's called essentialism
and if you try philosophy without it, you end up with admitting transexual amputees can well be considered normal
It is left. All their arguments can be turned on them.
Even nationalism. They argue nationalism is moot because you have no choice, you had no participation in choosing to be German/American/what have you. So therefore your pride is misplaced, and what you mean is superiority.
They just apply the same shit socially. Like being a faggot. If you have no choice in being a massive faggot then your pride is hypocritical. It's pointless. Gay pride therefore means gay superiority.
The green corner has guns fucktard.
Fascism depends on vile, brutal coercion to achieve its supposed unity. It is a utopian opium vision and its adherents are as disgusting as any commie.
And zero organisation or hierarchy.
>Fascism depends on vile, brutal coercion to achieve its supposed unity.
Read my earlier posts you dimwit