You have 10 seconds to provide an decent argument against workplace democracy

Everyone will want to raise salaries for as long as they can until they destroy the business from inside out.

Then another business where the workers aren't idiots would take up their place.
The Free Market™ at work.

Who will want to create a business if they can't control it themselves? Why save money?

Only a retard would think that voting for everything would provide the best outcome. I’ve worked with plenty of retards over the years and there’s no way they should have a say in anything. People do nothing but make excuses for themselves, that’s why communism exists. Commies are just losers that blame “the system” because they don’t like the idea of having their over inflated egos taking a knock. Whoever runs the business should do so with the advice of the workers, not with their express approval

T. Retard who doesn’t know what exploitation is

>Who will want to create a business if they can't control it themselves?
Why do people open cooperatives now?

>Why save money?
Capital accumulation for the purpose of further investment is a Capitalist practice that has no moral justification. You can save up money if you want to buy a house or a car, though.

What exploitation is, then?

I'm from a refugee family and a self made millionaire. Meet others like me often. If you have a high IQ and are willing to work you can outdo the lazy niggers. Non whites are limited by IQ and mental handicap created by believing they are oppressed. Western Europoors and Amerifats are lazy AF and think life is always supposed to be comfortable/enjoyable/non strenuous as well as not being concerned about the future. KYS you fucking slaves.

If Nat Soc wins.. people will have their own nations to run as they please. Grab a shovel and a gun and work for your, your family, your society.

If communism wins, you'll murder more than half of your own people in your own coming purge. Kek.

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Do you also support the Queen taking charge of the UK?

>I'm from a refugee family and a self made millionaire
Oh cool, another "I am a living success story" LARPer.
Should've said something about being an oil rig worker. Or a welder.

>think life is always supposed to be comfortable/enjoyable/non strenuous
Shouldn't it?

>Trying to control what someone else created.
You should be put down for the sake of humanity.

>Trying to control what someone else created
Oh, so like Capitalists?

It's cooperatives but it's their business. They can do whatever they want regardless of what their workers think of their salary

I’ll tell you what isn’t exploitation: voluntarily working for someone who you agreed to work for on the basis that they pay you a set amount which you both previously agreed to and which he/she does every month. Exploitation would be the socialist system of government where everyone is forced to work for an amount they wouldn’t have agreed to had they been given the choice, which is why you need walls with barbed wire fence to keep people in your utopia. In reality humans aren’t equal and there’s no reason a logical human being would assume that everyone is oppressed just because they have varying degrees of wealth. You are free to set up a business and pay people “fair wages” I stea dog the market rate, but like all commies you’re largely inept because of your child like leftist mentality so you won’t do it, instead you’ll tell happy people they’re oppressed and you’ll try to take over and destroy their nation because you think you know what’s best for people who you’ve never met and who wouldn’t want anything to do with you if they had met you

>I’ll tell you what isn’t exploitation
But I asked what exploitation is, not what it isn't.
Give me a definition to work with, here.

oh and btw,
>voluntarily working for someone who you agreed to work for on the basis that they pay you a set amount which you both previously agreed to and which he/she does every month
"Sell your labor or starve to death under a bridge" is not "voluntary".

>everyone is forced to work for an amount they wouldn’t have agreed to had they been given the choice
Doesn't sound very Socialist to me.

Yes. She has very limited power and as such it prevents dictatorial lefties from telling everyone how to live their lives. She represents my people and can trace her lineage back for over a thousand years. In no way is she exploiting or oppressing me. The worst you could say about the monarchy is that they’re all liberals for the most part and they don’t have the balls to do anything on the basis that they may lose their position. The truth is that people like you don’t want to hear the truth because as soon as you realise people don’t want what you’re selling you come to the conclusion that you’ll have to do something else with your life, which you can’t do

Jesus fucking christ I wanted to make one reply but I couldn't, this entire post is like a "greatest of all time" reel of Capitalist apologisms.

No, my question was do you support the Queen taking up more power and actually concretely ruling over your nation.

No, capitalists provide people with the opportunity to earn money. Without capitalists we would all be a lot poorer, without working class leftwing monkeys, we would still have the same amount of wealth creation. Maybe even a bit more from the lower welfare payments

minority rule destroys your argument

ie. one aggressive narcisoid is enough to destroy such democracy

I'm an engineer retard. Enjoy your coffee shop barista job. Always interesting that commies will throw anyone under the bus for their ideology.

Life is a challenge. You have to work. Build your life, your society, country. That's a foreign subject to commies.. WORK. The world is collapsing. There is no fully automated luxury gay space communism.. or Nat Soc utopia. (((People))), niggers, commies, feminists, and weak males fucked it up. Now you have to struggle more for the same dollar. Only thing is, people don't want to struggle /Mein Kampf/.. they want to complain and want free shit. If you think you're entitled to my work production.. I'm happy you starve/your own inferior ideology kills you.

Who said you had to starve under a bridge? Why can’t you start a business of your own?

Notrealsocialism.jpg

>No, capitalists provide people with the opportunity to earn money
How does this contradict my observation that Capitalist take control over the fruits of labor of others?

Democracy.

>Life is a challenge. You have to work. Build your life, your society, country. That's a foreign subject to commies.. WORK. The world is collapsing. There is no fully automated luxury gay space communism.. or Nat Soc utopia. (((People))), niggers, commies, feminists, and weak males fucked it up. Now you have to struggle more for the same dollar. Only thing is, people don't want to struggle /Mein Kampf/.. they want to complain and want free shit. If you think you're entitled to my work production.. I'm happy you starve/your own inferior ideology kills you.
Nice verbal blitzkrieg, but this doesn't answer my question.
SHOULDN'T life be more pleasant?

There you go champ

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Communism will never happen because the majority of the (((Revolutionist))) are LARPers and free riders.

Also fuck the (((Poor))) they are a bunch of lard asses.

Rename that file to strawman.jpg

samefaggot

sometimes it's counter-productive

>dude just genocide the rich so that your whole life can be consumed by bureaucratic nonesense that you'll just thrust onto an elected official eventually undoing everything the bloodshed was for in the first place
>anything else is oppressing me
Nah fuck off m8.

“Capitalist apologism” you Lena someone with a functioning brain who understand how the world works. Feel free to continue avoiding giving logical counter arguments because you can’t. Maybe you can name a socialist country that isn’t a shithole while you’re at it? Maybe you could address the fact that humans aren’t equal and inequality doesn’t mean oppression? Maybe you could address the fact that you can’t run a business and are angry at those who can?

I am not a Leninist.

And I answered you. Why don’t you answer me and tell me why socialist countries are all shitholes and people are desperate to leave them

The (((Poor))) are thieves. So as tax payers.

I actually can't name any Socialist country at all.
(besides certain aspects of Republican Spain, some current experiments in Kurdistan and, if you're willing to include social democracy as a form of "Socialism", the majority of north/western Europe in the latter half of the 20th century)

dude, there is no such thing as 'democracy' it's absurd and archaic form that worked in small greek cities, all of it's derivations (such as communism) are even more retarded.

if you're not invited, fuck off my property.

Venezuela

Are the workers in control of the means of production there?

They don’t take control. Saying that they take control implies that the people you’re making excuses for had the opportunity to make money in the first place, which is an outright lie believed by retards who get told what to think at university. In reality Microsoft would exist but for the likes of bill gates, none of those programmers had the ability to do what he did. They chose to work for him voluntarily and making up some bullshit about starving to death becaus eyouve got no logical arguments isn’t going to cut it

Yep

Yeah, life would be more pleasant.... if undesirables that do not contribute were eliminated as well as capitalism limitations, and corrupt legislators eliminated.

Thank you for supporting Fascism

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Why? You’re clearly a retard for claiming that it isn’t real socialism when it quite clearly represents most socialist countries

You don't own the workplace but work the the owner. Do you let strangers to set a democracy in your own home and dictate what happens?

How do we know your actually a commie and not some LARPing fag from Jow Forums or Jow Forums? Show yourself.

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Are you gay?

Oh I see, you’re one of those retards. How many years did you waste at university getting told what to think? What did you study? Politics? Gender studies? Some other useless subject that told you you were being oppressed because talented people have more money than you?

Obviously, look at his flag

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Very nice. Let's work with that.
The proletariat, by definition, have no choice but to sell their labor or perish. A Capitalist takes up wage workers and has them do productive work for his firm. This productive labor produces an income for the Capitalist. The Capitalist then pays the workers a wage which is lower than the actual value of their work. Had the Capitalist paid his workers the actual worth of their labor, his profit would have been zero. Because the workers have no choice but to continue selling their labor, they have no voice in the matter.
Now explain how wage labor doesn't fit into that definition.

So, you're for or against life being more pleasant?

Oh? And how would fascism works? Just like communism, people would want to go their own way under fascist governments. Good luck on that ethno state, Larp.

Has your failure of an ideology got any chance of even existing when you’ve spent over a hundred years trying to enact it and so far you don’t think it’s even been implemented? What’s taking so long? Why did the United soviet socialist republics fail to achieve socialism? Seems odd that your superior ideology is so impractical that given a hundred years or more nobody can even implement it

There's nothing Socialist about State Capitalism.

Most people in the workplace are too dumb to make good decisions. Even if you pretend they're not dumb, they don't have the same information the higher ups have on a daily basis because they're busy working.
t. Worker

I've studied computer science.

Then stop bitching and complaining and go start your own co-op, you commie faggot.

Oh wait, you won't because you're afraid and you think that society has some moral duty to shield you from the possibility of failure.

I'm against democracy in general, the public people are fucking idiots and who rules shouldn't be a popularity contest

What about a republic tho?

Capitalists are very good at entrenching their power resisting worker demands.
They're also very good at recruiting useful idiots with "grateful slave" syndromes. Y'know, people like you.

The workplace is a hierarchy, and in any decent hierarchy the top is filled with people who are more intelligent, educated, and skilled in leadership. These people should be able to call the shots autonomously while striving to serve their inferiors, but without having to bow to them. If decisions were made collectively then you would have a majority rule. Unfortunately, the majority is almost always synonymous with the median in any performance distribution. They are therefore usually lazy and don't have the best interest of the company in mind. This model of business would be doomed to underperform when compared to standard capitalist workplaces.

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(((workplace democracy)))

Most people in the country are too dumb to make good decisions. Even if you pretend they're not dumb, they don't have the same information the higher ups have on a daily basis because they're busy working.
t. Citizen

[[[workplace democracy))))

same thing
all shit

I believe his answers can be summed up in "Life should be more pleasant for those who deserve it, degenerates like you and niggers can scram."

>have no choice but to sell their labor or perish
Wrong, they can also become independent, start their own business or go in services
>A Capitalist takes up wage workers and has them do productive work for his firm. This productive labor produces an income for the Capitalist. The Capitalist then pays the workers a wage which is lower than the actual value of their work.
You know that companies don't come out of thin air? Example: Where I work, it started ina garage, now it is big. The owner did put his own money, made the product, invested the capital for machines, more production, more money, buy property, expand and now 50 years later, hundreds work for him. Tell me, how the workers are entitled to seize the means of production and call him a thief when he started from the bottom as a worker himself?
>Because the workers have no choice but to continue selling their labor, they have no voice in the matter.
What are unions?
>Most people in the country are too dumb to make good decisions.
>flag
Where's the USSR now?
>So, you're for or against life being more pleasant?
Earth for Whites, Hapas and Japanese then?

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"Every dytopia contains a tiny utopia", as they say.
I guess he's just stupid enough to believe he'll be one of the Chosen Ones.

I have had to babysit an army of stupid workers at a grocery store.

They can barely tie their shoes let alone come up with useful policy.

We should go back to the old ways. White landowners get to vote. No jews.

I agree.
Fun fact about the last election, only 25% of the people who voted knew the three branches of government. Do you know what that means? It means 75% of people who voted don't know what the President does and does not do. Yet they're still qualified to vote for who should do it. It's silly.

A meritocratic oligarchy is preferable

Commie is retarded. Communism does not work. People are not equal. All communist proletariats are slaves to bourgois party member elites.

Lolbertarian:
Go their own way? Freedom to do as you please (work, etc). You work to make society better and society in turn seeks to assist you on your personal advancement/support. AnCap thinking is just as piss poor as current stage capitalism. We are humans and are designed to function in society. The purpose of society (and government) is to collectively work together to better the individual and at the same time better the society.

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>dry the masses for the poor decision making abilities

>affirm the need for workplace democracy

please kill yourself immediately

That's what the classical monarchy was.
Not on paper mind you but de facto.
If the king was a retard, other people would conspire to have him removed. This process would then repeat nation-wide among all noble families ensuring only tolerable rulers survived.

THIS

The very first at thing you said was wromg. The proletariat, assuming they’re not losers with no talent, ambition, work ethic, etc, are perfectly able to set up their own business. Why do you keep avoiding this? Do you not like the fact that you’re not oppressed because it means you have to air personal responsibility for your failure of a life? Look at all of your commie friends and tell me that they’re the sort of people who could run a multi national corporation but are just being held back by the system. A capitalist offers people a job for a set wage that they agree to before starting the work, if they don’t like it they can work for someone else or start up their own business. The value isn’t lower than the amount he pays them, value is not set in stone. I might be willing to pay £15 for a steak if I’m hungry but only £2 if I’m full up. The truth is that people value things differently. Just look t eBay, some people make money from buying things from eBay and selling them on, should they give this extra profit back to the person they bought the product from becaus eotherwise they’re stealing? Why? They went out of their way to earn the extra money and they should keep the profit. Humans work on incentive and if you take away the monetary incentive to th likes of Elon musk, bill gates et al then they won’t do what they do so well, and we’ll all be poorer. If the capitalist has zero profit he has no reason to work and will not do it, meaning everyone suffers. You won’t people to suffer because you don’t like the idea of admitting you’re inferior to certain people. Again the worker can go to another business or start one himself, unless he’s a sperg who paid too much attention at university to people who have spent their entire life in education getting told what to think by people who have no idea what they’re talking about and are bitter that people like Donald trump earn more money than them

sage. People are stupid, gullible, and vulnerable to propaganda that allows (((interest groups))) to manipulate and control their desires and their actions. Therefore, giving them a say only ever leads to kikes winning. /thread

This is similar in chimp societies. If the alpha chimp is too greedy with food and bitches, the group overthrows him.

Monarchies tie in the social/ethno/cultural aspect that helps bind society together. Monarchy in function or just name seems to have a stabilizing force on most countries. i.e. Thailand.

YAASSSSS

T. Retard who thinks he’s oppressed because he was told he was oppressed.

In reality the left are good at recruiting losers who think that anyone who understands how the world works is a useful idiot, even though you can’t address anything I’ve said (surprise surprise)

It's the most naturalistic government there is.
Ironically, though it's depicted as being "totalitarian" it's the closest thing to anarchy a nation could ever achieve and keeps national culture strong.
The King can't leave his country. He is part of it. So he's motivated to keep it around for the sake of his bloodline and the duty of his ancestors.
The President can leave his country. He can take the money and run. He has no motivation to protect the country when he could instead improve his own personal wealth and thus better the lives of his offspring.

Hey, you want to own the means of production? Try producing something faggit. Oh wait...

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>provide an decent argument against workplace democracy
people are stupid and lazy, especially women. Q.E.D

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this
h i
i h
siht

Libertarian =/= AnCap

Learn the difference.

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Has anyone noticed these faggots fuck off when you point out that the proletariat could always start their own business if they had the talent to do so? Maybe we should just skip to that part in future

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And what would happen of the king wanted implement strict rules? Can't you see the problems with monarchs?

Agreed. It's really only an issue with a few things:
Absolute power in one/few hands.
Greed.. in excess of acceptable limits.

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