Genuinely want to know the rationale behind the left's ideas...

This is fair. Honestly, there's stuff that profits off the continued division of race on both sides so they wouldn't want to actually fix what's wrong. They just wanna pat themselves on the back for pointing it out and allowing the machine to continue.

>Minorities should be treated on equal ground because of their own merits and not the color of their skin.
this hasn't happened since 1965 and will not happen in the future, ever. black and hispanic achievement will always be lower than that of whites or asians, so endless forms of redress will be needed if Equality is to be achieved. since leftists now accept karmic justice as viable in the name of punishing racism, the amount of redress that can be extracted from white people by angry minorities is effectively unbounded and can be increased whenever the left wants more power.

>Relevance?

We're blindly marching into the unknown, you asked 'is being a minority a bad thing'. I already answered yes to this, and I'll elaborate a bit more.

Looking at the current rhetoric against whites and how it keeps escalating, and given how whites are viewed and already treated, I don't see it becoming a positive thing anytime in the near future, and it will be catastrophic once we do become a minority. We will be a hated minority, not an elevated one like every non-white group in the US is right now.

>Clearly there exists a spectrum of opinions.

You didn't address the rest of my point.

>We can't always get what we want, and sometimes we shouldn't.

Clearly there exists a spectrum of opinions.

>This is fair. Honestly, there's stuff that profits off the continued division of race on both sides so they wouldn't want to actually fix what's wrong. They just wanna pat themselves on the back for pointing it out and allowing the machine to continue.
you can't have a united country when you have a divided power system, where leftism is baked into the country from its founding, and a small, permanently aggrieved, low-achieving, violent minority exists. they're begging to be used by leftist agitators, and indeed every wave of leftism in America since the second great awakening has been centered around using the condition of black americans as the justification for a leftist power grab.

Hell if you think about it it's not even about lying. It's about repeating false or plain and simply meaningless statements over and over again.

The best example is obviously diversity is our strength. How is it strength? Even from the anti-capitalist perspective, the only thing you achieve by 'diversity' is giving a tool to the elites to rule by divide and conquer. From other perspectives it's even dumber so I'm not going to even address it.

fuck review brah. traitor. He turned his back on us when we were the only ones that protected him from the bullies.

You get the same blank stares and confused replies when you ask why should you give up privilege too. They are just conditioned to be weak and masochistic

This probably doesn’t help your argument, but the part that really irks me when leftists trot out these points is that we were lied to and deceived into becoming minorities. Look up all the quotes that specifically state our racial demographics would NOT change. Obviously they knew
race = culture or why would they promise such a thing?
And yet here we are, prisoners in our own country.

>Looking at the current rhetoric against whites and how it keeps escalating, and given how whites are viewed and already treated, I don't see it becoming a positive thing anytime in the near future, and it will be catastrophic once we do become a minority. We will be a hated minority, not an elevated one like every non-white group in the US is right now.
If only whites had put more effort into treating people fairly to begin with and not only suddenly become concerned about it now that there was a slim chance they might be on the receiving end.

Which isn't to say that any violence of that sort is justified, obviously, but the systems that will be used to deprive you of your rights and property are the same systems that you built to deprive others of the same. You're building the gun of your enemy.

>You didn't address the rest of my point.
You didn't appear to be making a point.

You're not asking substantive questions, you're just repeating talking points. Muh affirmative action, muh white South African genocide. None of this gets to the heart of the issue. You will never understand the underlying left-wing thought process by administering a pop quiz on current affairs.

>Clearly there exists a spectrum of opinions.
Cute, but you're the one begging for answers. I don't think witticisms will help you get them. By all means, continue to be obstinate and abrasive, but don't expect to gain by the process.

Reviewbrah did nothing wrong.

They see the case of whites becoming a racial minority as a purely racial issue. It makes sense on paper, you’re insecure of becoming a racial minority because you hold your racial identity preeminent.
In reality you’re insecure of becoming a national minority in your own country. These immigrants hold no real ties to the founding of the nation nor do they add anything to that history. They serve only to add to the growing and near monolithic Democratic Party.
You need to reframe the issue as a National identity issue mixed with an economic one.
Only then can you make headway at explaining yourself.

a nation doesn't exist to cater to every type of race or culture. it ceases to be a nation in fact. it results in a lack of unification in blood or values.

your point would make sense if the nation was founded on the principle of being a multicultural state.

browns treat each other worse than white people treat them. why do you think they are in white countries in the first place? In Mexico Mexicans behead other Mexicans. In America you get access to a ton of welfare programs and far higher salaries.

fuck off melbourne

The fear is that Whites will NOT be treated as we treated non-Whites. No race has ever been as tolerant or generous to others as Whites have. The worst fate possible would be to be treated as niggers treat each other.

Because race doesn't matter only class does

We won't get affirmative action and benefits current minorities enjoy. That is what we fear.

>No race has ever been as tolerant or generous to others as Whites have.
lmao

You're a historylet. Go read up about the Ottoman Empire.

Fundamentally the left doesn't understand the concept of economic scarcity. They believe resources are limitless and are simply hoarded by boogeymen. That's all there is to then. They are that retarded.

To many of them white people are that boogeyman.

>why do you think they are in white countries in the first place?
Because white countries have historically, and continue to, systematically ruined brown countries.

Nigger that is some low quality bait

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The very concept of quibbling over historical guilt is low quality bait but it appears to be the best I'm going to get out of you.

>Why should I, a white man, be happy about becoming a minority?
because you're white

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I guess there's only one response. Yes, I'm racist, and thus, there is no rationale for me to become a minority in my own country.

Remember, these people don't live in a world where race is real.

>that the systems of society are set up to structurally exclude minorities from participating in government and the economy?
well yeah that is the default of any society white or non white you dumb cunt.
>Are you perhaps afraid that you might be subject to the same kind of treatment you have inflicted on others?
white countries are the only places on the planet that have ever given minorities rights and privileges akin to the majority in the history of the world you fucking retard.

>Because white countries have historically, and continue to, systematically ruined brown countries.
If China ruined the US financially, Americans wouldn't rush to move to China. The Japanese didn't rush into America after we nuked them. This is purely an indio, arab, and black phenomenon, and it's clear that they would ruin their countries whether or not white countries intervened in their affairs. see: any country that hasn't been colonized, or see: black american behavior. the black american homicide rate is right around that of other West African countries.

And they wonder why no one bothers talking to them

They attack it because engaging it would mean admitting and justifying their desire of it.
Draw any parallels and they get upset about it not being sufficiently violent, imperialist-led etc to be perfectly similar to all the other times they’ve done it.
Of course we know that it leads to Karelia, Tibet, British Mandate of Palestine, Rhodesia, South Africa etc and they do too, dishonest scumbags that they are.

>If China ruined the US financially, Americans wouldn't rush to move to China.
Yes you would.

>If only whites had put more effort into treating people fairly to begin with and not only suddenly become concerned about it now that there was a slim chance they might be on the receiving end.

I can promise without a doubt that if blacks managed to be equal to whites in every way, shape and form right now, they would still complain about being oppressed.

>Which isn't to say that any violence of that sort is justified, obviously, but the systems that will be used to deprive you of your rights and property are the same systems that you built to deprive others of the same. You're building the gun of your enemy.

Very aware, that's what my argument is. My argument is 'why should I happy about the fact that I'm building and aiming the gun at my own head'.

>You didn't appear to be making a point.

The rest of my post was stating how minorities are currently treated in the USA, how whites are currently treated in the USA, and why it would be worse for whites being a minority than other groups at the moment.

>You're not asking substantive questions, you're just repeating talking points. Muh affirmative action, muh white South African genocide.

Don't believe I mentioned either of those.

>None of this gets to the heart of the issue. You will never understand the underlying left-wing thought process by administering a pop quiz on current affairs.

Why should I, a white man, be happy about becoming a minority

I can't get it down to the core any more than that.

>Cute, but you're the one begging for answers. I don't think witticisms will help you get them. By all means, continue to be obstinate and abrasive, but don't expect to gain by the process.

You gave one to me, I gave it back, but you're right, witticisms get me nowhere.

All nations discriminate against minorities except white nations

you anit no worker. No working class white man advocates for his own cultural and genetic displacement.
Look down at your spindly hands are there callouses there? No.
I am working class and with my bare hands could crush your skull with ease you limp dick larper.

No I wouldn't, why the fuck would I want to be surrounded by chinks? You can already get this experience in any American state university.

Yes, in a country where everyone is a minority, there is perpetual conflict. Wow, what an improvement over past society. Liberals are some of the dumbest people on the face of this Earth.

>Ottoman empire
Devshirme stealing of Christian children to be used as indoctrinated slave shocktroopers.
Different courts for different denoms where non-muslims have no rights against muslims in muslim court.
Slavery of whites only ended by British force of arms.
Laws against muslim women intermarrying non-muslims.

Neck yourself you anatolian rapebaby.

>Is there some reason that being a minority is a bad thing?

I guess it would depend on who the majority is, wouldn't it? Are they whites? Minority status doesn't suck. Are they blacks? I want out of that country immediately.

>Is that reason, perhaps, that the systems of society are set up to structurally exclude minorities from participating in government and the economy?

Nope.

>Are you perhaps afraid that you might be subject to the same kind of treatment you have inflicted on others?

I've inflicted nothing upon anybody. I just look at the history of places where colored fucking filth became the majority and those countries, every single one throughout all of history, have turned to shit.

It's worse. Minorities have it worse than slavery right now. It's no better than slavery. All whites are slave owners.
Why shouldn't whites be forced to learn 3 languages just to shop at the grocery store? Why shouldn't we bring over millions of young men from countries teaming with terrorism?
You're all racists. Checkmate. Atheism wins again.

seconded

Reviewbrah is a fucking saint, pure as driven snow.

he's probably a turkroach or leb desu, or a butthurt chinaman

>rationale behind the left's ideas

Virtue signal, sensationalize.
Aware or not, they are groomed to be loud, exotic, and as sensationally-binary as possible regarding all logic.

News sites love them, so that's what is talked about. Resulting in more leftists pursuing the same source of attention, and perpetuating that audience.

>I can promise without a doubt
I don't really care about your promises.

>that's what my argument is
I thought you were just trying to get some questions answered.

This isn't an argument.

>'why should I happy about the fact that I'm building and aiming the gun at my own head'.
You shouldn't be, so I suggest you stop building guns.

>The rest of my post was stating how minorities are currently treated in the USA, how whites are currently treated in the USA, and why it would be worse for whites being a minority than other groups at the moment.
Seems to me like you're playing hypothetical oppression Olympics.

>Don't believe I mentioned either of those.
Your "whites would be oppressed" narrative ties in directly with South Africa, and your "whites are so generous to minorities" draws on examples like affirmative action. You don't need to mention them, I already know your argument inside out.

>Why should I, a white man, be happy about becoming a minority
The reason why answering this question is like pulling teeth is because when I say "you shouldn't be because you will immediately be set upon" you will use that as a justification for clinging to power when really it's not. Two wrongs don't make a right. You should work towards a society where that power can be relinquished without everything falling apart, not cling to a social order that works for you at the expense of everyone else and justify it by saying if you stop now the rest of the world will be out for revenge. But we both already know you fundamentally disagree with me on that.

>implying the Labor party isn't still the primary party of the working class while also being the left-wing muh feels party
You're simply wrong.

>No I wouldn't
Yes you would.

You will go wherever there is money and easy living.

ah, yes ... another enlightened troll that see's the world through the star trek series...human nature being what it is, maybe you should read up on the happenings in SA...

>fair share
They don't deserve anything, this country was designed and built by Anglo-Saxons then the rest of Europe. We don't owe any immigrant anything.

>You should work towards a society where that power can be relinquished without everything falling apart
t. ”Rainbow Nation” SA rethoric-using kike.

And all of those things can be countered by citing any of the bajillion terrible things white people have done. Quibbling over historical guilt is fucking stupid. Nobody cares about it except for people like you who can't wait for the opportunity to play oppression Olympics and trot out the personal injury book.

go back to to china
ya not welcome here

>The reason why answering this question is like pulling teeth is because when I say "you shouldn't be because you will immediately be set upon" you will use that as a justification for clinging to power when really it's not.
the browns literally set upon each other in their own countries lel, all that will happen is that standard operating procedures in the US will become the same as in Mexico, Australia will have chink-tier corruption and collapsing escalators, etc.

there won't be any actual race wars, just gradual shittification. protip: non-asian minorities are always organized by woke white people to use for power grabs. in the US the blacks are always organized by woke white people and jews. the same is proving true of the hispanics.

>I guess it would depend on who the majority is, wouldn't it?
I think it would rather depend on the conduct of that majority and the institutions of government.

>I've inflicted nothing upon anybody.
t. buys slave labour sweatshop goods because they're cheap

>Is there some reason that being a minority is a bad thing?
In a nation create by and for your own people, yes.

well since you can't answer that yes you are racist because yes it is incredibly obviously unsafe to live around certain races, the conversation can go nowhere

Note that all these Leftists act like Klansmen when it comes to where they choose to live and send their kids to school.

the entire thing's a bad fucking joke

china numba won

>rationale behind the left's ideas
That's your problem.

There is no rationale other than virtue signalling. Everyone wants to be the good guy and find an outlet for the problems of the world.

Look at that twitter response. >You're a racist
That means nothing in the context of that little exchange, but it's a kneejerk emotional reaction that it brings about, that no one dares be associated with.

Welcome to the Witch Hunt of the 21st century.

The niggers and chinks want revenge. Look at South Africa

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if china ruined the US they wouldn't even let americans in LEL

>expecting rational thought or deep discussion on Twitter
There's your problem, you're a fucking idiot

The nation belong to those who built it. If your country was built by white people, then it belongs to the whites, ie Canada, US and all of Europe

What you are experiencing is known as "pilpul" in their arrogant responses. If you were good at debating a "pilpuller" you'd know how to coercerce them into admitting that they are bigots that hate White people and the rest of their opinions are offshoots of that core belief. Learn some anti-pilpul techniques.

Fuck the wyte"man". Bunch of stupid literal motherfuckers
Pussy ass faggots trying to childproof everything, trying to take everything and impose your insanity on the world. Just take your pale whiny crying degenerate homosexual feminist ass back to europe

>And all of those things can be countered by citing any of the bajillion terrible things white people have done.
No, not even close and you’re the 垃圾的 citing them as a more ”tolerant” societ than those of white people. Presimably because you read pop-history and not primary sources like the british observation records of Ottoman law.
>Quibbling over historical guilt is fucking stupid.
Guilt is fucking stupid period, Europeans owe nothing to the rest of the world. Least of all in our own homelands.

>Why should I, a white man, be happy about becoming a minority
You're meant to not care, and if you do care then all you can really do is cry about it at this point. It's not an argument it's just "mm tears"

>No race has ever been as tolerant or generous to others as Whites have

wtf I love white people now

The real problem is that these racial minorities suck. A majority Hispanic nation won t be like America; it'll be like some shitty Latin American country. That, and white people being better, they'll still hold the majority of leadership roles in business and government, and when the US is 40% white, but whites are still in charge, the left will likely get "creative" with "solutions" to the "problem," and with enough shitskins to vote, they'll be able to force their way.

I'm not interested in playing hypothetical historical oppression Olympics with you, Mohammed.

>Why should I, a white man, be happy about becoming a minority?
You probably shouldn't care. Most people are just trying to get through the day and don't adhere to SJW shit.

Aside from that, Latin people are mostly white. Get a lovely tortilla-making wife and make your happily ever after.

Pretty much.

Nobody worries about whites being the majority.

>I thought you were just trying to get some questions answered.

>This isn't an argument.

Sorry, the premise for my argument, the burning question, whatever you choose to call it.

>You shouldn't be, so I suggest you stop building guns.

I do appreciate the honesty.

>Seems to me like you're playing hypothetical oppression Olympics.

We could very easily argue that it isn't hypothetical anymore, and my worries are founded on fact instead of senseless fears.

>Your "whites would be oppressed" narrative ties in directly with South Africa

That's some heavy assuming, because South Africa never entered my mind once. Not only that, it is a different scenario.

>and your "whites are so generous to minorities" draws on examples like affirmative action.

Much less affirmative action, more of everything else. Again, never mentioned it, you did and attacked me for it.

>The reason why answering this question is like pulling teeth is because when I say "you shouldn't be because you will immediately be set upon" you will use that as a justification for clinging to power when really it's not. Two wrongs don't make a right.

We agree.

>You should work towards a society where that power can be relinquished without everything falling apart, not cling to a social order that works for you at the expense of everyone else and justify it by saying if you stop now the rest of the world will be out for revenge. But we both already know you fundamentally disagree with me on that.

Aren't we attempting that as we speak? Not being a smartass, serious question here.

Propping up diversity as our strength, trying to give positions of power to everyone but white males, letting our own culture berate us while protecting everyone else, isn't all of that relinquishing power?

We've been bamboozled by a superior shit poster

>Aside from that, Latin people are mostly white. Get a lovely tortilla-making wife and make your happily ever after.
Time to go back Juan.

>can't ask on Jow Forums, too much of an echo chamber to hear the opposition's genuine intentions

This is bait

There is no rationale behind any leftist idea.

>Jow Forums: White wamen are bitches and hoes. I'm going to date a Latina or a qt Asian.
>Also Jow Forums: OMG. Why are white people becoming a minority?!
Pick one.

when you unironically praise the ottoman empire as being generous and tolerant towards non-T*rks you've reached a level of delusion not previously considered possible.

Who keeps saying what now?

Whites would never settle for being minorities because it would mean settling for a second rate society when we know we are capable of more.

Liberals under the delusion that everyone shares the same basic values as they do.

>We could very easily argue that it isn't hypothetical anymore, and my worries are founded on fact instead of senseless fears.
Sure.

So what are you going to do to address your fears?

We've discussed the two options. Option 1 is to clamp down and rev up the gas chambers and take a death grip on power then dare the darkies and niggers to pry it from your cold dead hands. Option 2 is to participate in the dismantling of the """oppressive structures""" that cause problems for minorities in the first place.

>That's some heavy assuming, because South Africa never entered my mind once. Not only that, it is a different scenario.
>Much less affirmative action, more of everything else. Again, never mentioned it, you did and attacked me for it.
Cool, fair enough. Regardless, these are the types of things that get discussed in discussions like these instead of the substantive underlying issues.

The problem is that whether race is real or not, people act like race is real - which leads to problems like this, where "the whites" and "the blacks" have to duke it out because whoever loses will be "racially" "oppressed" in the aftermath.

You can accept this status quo and try to win the battle (the racist viewpoint) or you can reject this status quo and try and inculcate a different way of thinking in people so that they stop acting like race is real (the progressive viewpoint).

>isn't all of that relinquishing power?
Yes, but if you refer to the paragraph above you can see why I think discussing specific things like that is small-picture thinking. Where goals are agreed, questions of means are merely technical.

P.S. I'm heading to bed now. I was up early for the dawn service and I'm fucking exhausted.

Cya around lads.

You've got nothing to lose but your chains.

>We've discussed the two options
Two false dichotomies.
There’s no need whatsoever for nazism or offering ones throat to be slit by the likes of you.

>oppressive structures
we basically cancelled our space program to give welfare to blacks. we spend the equivalent of the apollo program every year on medicaid for hispanics alone, who mostly descend from illegal immigrants who marched over the border post-1965 to pick fruit and demand handouts. at literally every stage of life in America you get preferential treatment as a black or hispanic, from college admissions to scholarships to getting internships to hiring. meanwhile chinks were actively discriminated against in these same scenarios and turned out fine. it's almost as if it's not the system, but instead problems inherent to blacks and hispanics.

>you can reject this status quo and try and inculcate a different way of thinking in people so that they stop acting like race is real (the progressive viewpoint).
modern western progressivism does the opposite of this though. it has its origins in the American Great Awakening(s) and has the following form:
>feign righteous indignation about the state of The Blacks
>use it to get into power
>expand State power
This happened in the 1800s, 1960s, and is happening again right now.

>You've got nothing to lose but your chains.
Aside from one’s peoples lives as you kikes so overtly showed in Hungary, South Africa (Joe Slovo) and Russia.

Neckbeard

The best day of my life will be when these faggot will be murdered by the shitskins they love so much. I will gladly watch and even help the shitskins raping and killing their children. Fucking retarded traitors

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>So what are you going to do to address your fears?

I'm still at a point where I feel like I'm a bizarro world.

The only place I can come to talk logically and work out the reality around me when it comes to political shit is Jow Forums. How fucking sad does that sound to you? I promise it sounds worse to me.

I'm mostly validating that what I'm seeing with my own 2 eyes is real, and that I'm not some horrible human being for feeling the way I do about it.

As far as action? None, aside from extra awareness of my surroundings. My genes are too shit for children and I'm not throwing my life away for some movement that can't hold it's ground over the next few decades of change.

>Regardless, these are the types of things that get discussed in discussions like these instead of the substantive underlying issues.

No hate or blame here, I'm guilty of doing the same to the other side.

>The problem is that whether race is real or not, people act like race is real - which leads to problems like this, where "the whites" and "the blacks" have to duke it out because whoever loses will be "racially" "oppressed" in the aftermath.

Race is very much real. If you're arguing the idea of 'race is a social construct and has no place in biology', you're correct. However, that doesn't change the fact that while we don't have absolute definitions of who belongs to what race, people are different biologically. Group differences are openly acknowledged (blacks are faster) while some are not (blacks average lower IQ everywhere they go). This is something I never expect to be addressed politically, but something I can't ignore.

>you can see why I think discussing specific things like that is small-picture thinking. Where goals are agreed, questions of means are merely technical.

The goal for the left is equality. The means aren't pretty because their logic is flawed and based in wishes instead of fact.

I appreciate you playing devil's advocate for an hour, Aussie.

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It's not racism. If other countries were some super beautiful and smart Lord of the Rings elf types, things would be the same.

This, I'd love to protect working class white areas and transport all these shitskins to middle class areas. Reap what you sow you traitors