GET READY TO BE FUCKED CARCU.CKS

Worse than subsidizing oil, we're subsidizing roads. We have way too many roads and way to much traffic as a consequence of road socialism.

>road socialism
Oh boy what's this? Sounds like some kind of academic term invented by the sort of person who belives personal transportation is an inherent evil.

No. The roadways are socialized, definitionally.

Unlikely. With all of the new oil sources we have and the fact that it's not tied to an oil cartel, I doubt oil's going to exceed $150/barrel for the next 50 years.

You mean public roads, I presume? Tell me how road socialism leads to way too many roads and too much traffic.

The fact that they are so badly maintained

Poorly maintained roads leads to too many roads and too much traffic? I'm not intentionally trying to be dense here, even if it probably seems that way. I'm just unclear about what exactly the argument being made is.

>Poorly maintained roads leads to too many roads and too much traffic

No it means that there are to many roads for the amount of resources disposable to maintain them.

ments for

What's your proposed remedy? I don't drive to and from work every day, but I use the roads and I use services that use the roads, so for me I'd be happy to pay a little more in taxes if that's what it would take to keep them in better shape.

It's not clear to me that lack of funding is necessarily the problem, or that existing funding could be better allocated to prioritize useful things like roads instead of, like, planting trees under the power lines or something of more debatable utility like that.

Isn't it obvious? Lack of tolls and lack of liability. You could certainly partially fix things just by having the government levy tolls.
No, roads must properly reflect supply and demand if you want to prevent urban sprawl, pollution, and high commute times.

HOLY SHITTTT

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Nice link fuck nut, No bump for /threads

Why tolls instead of taxes? I could see tolls paying for big projects like bridges or something, but usually they tolls just turn into a slush fund rather than a way of repaying the loans and maintenance costs.

As for planning, that does indeed need to be taken into account. Managed sprawl imo is a good way to do that if you're starting from an older city where the roads simply are not up to dealing with growing population and population density.

FYI, Andurand called the oil crash of 2015/16 months before it happened.
He also called the bottom within weeks.
However, he thought oil would bounce to $60/$70 (where it is now) a lot quicker than it actually did, and he lost money because of it, but it's there now.

He's the guy I pay the most attention to when it comes to calling the oil market. Though saying something is "not impossible" is hardly a call.

>Gold going to $20,000 is not impossible.
>Gisele Bundchen letting me suck her dick is not impossible as well.

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looks like Venezuela needs some freedom

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>What's your proposed remedy?

If I would know what the alternative should be, I wouldnt be on Jow Forums talking abstraction with a normie.

But hey as of what I know, in America you have alternatives to public roads as such I don`t think I would need to argue this anyway

> I'd be happy to pay a little more in taxes

How is your willingness to pay more a justification for others to be coerced into providing at your level?

>'s not clear to me that lack of funding is necessarily the problem

If you can`t maintain what you have built, you are doing something awfully wrong.

> or that existing funding could be better allocated to prioritize useful things like roads instead of, like, planting trees under the power lines or something of more debatable utility like that.

Specific talk is not for the voting public, the non -elected take care of that business

It’s called “talking your book”

This fag is long on oil. He’s trying to drum up prices by convincing all the retards that oil will hit $300 when in reality with fracking it will never break $200 again

Private roads here exist for the most part almost out of necessity. Like if you're in a rural situation where it doesn't make sense for the state to maintain the roads then you or maybe something like a neighborhood co-op might figure out how to maintain their roads. Or you get weird little offshoots even in cities that for whatever reason are maintained by the property owners rather than the state.

>If you can`t maintain what you have built, you are doing something awfully wrong.
Yup. Good old government corruption at work. I don't mind a private alternative, but you're basically trading one corporation for another, so unless you design that corporation in such a way that you have more direct influence over how it is run the I don't see why one would be necessarily more effective than the other. Your arguments about coercion would exist in either case; if you've ever been a party to shared private road maintenance then you know it can be a real pain in the ass to get everybody to agree on expensive projects.

“hopefully these retards pile into oil and get me out of this long position lol”

that’s why contrarian investors make money. subscribe to wall st journal or Bloomberg and literally do the exact opposite of what it says. You’ll make a killing

Tolls vs taxes? You prevent externalities. Only the user pays, and he pays his fair share, no more, no less. The road will have a ton of shareholders (usually locals who want to offset their tolls) and these people receive dividends.

You mention older cities. When you privatize roads, you allow private mass transit to become profitable. Narrow roads in older cities will deal with higher density by raising prices, which means more buses will be motivated to move in. When a private road raises prices, that also alerts investors that hey, maybe we can build elevated rail here and make a profit. This doesn't happen under road socialism because public roads will always a free second best option.

You'd need a sufficient network of private roads to allow private buses (why would you want them anyway? buses suck). Public bus routes typically are planned along routes that can accommodate convenience and throughput, are often supplemented by special lanes and routes, and are not subject to whatever haphazard configuration of jinky private roads might be available. I don't decry the idea, but I'm not sure it's all that realistic unless you're building out a new libertarian paradise or something.

As for tolls, like I said it typically winds up just being part of one big government slush fund. And if it's done privately then good luck organizing and insuring a project of sufficient scale to make sense. Don't let me stop you from trying, but I don't particularly expect that to be a practical retrofit in general.

Oh god i fucking wish

t. Oil industry in Odessa Texas

>why would you want them anyway? buses suck
10 buses can move 150 people through a narrow street way more efficiently than 150 cars. Also you've likely only experienced public buses, and public versions of things often suck.

Private roads will never happen while the government keeps producing plentiful free roads, because you simply can't compete with infinite money like that.

If the roads are ever privatized, they won't be jinky or haphazard. There will be large and small networks of road providers, many publicly traded. Road management companies will be everywhere too just like land management companies are today.

Doesn’t mean we need to be using it.
Smart companies like Ford are making badass engines that use less fuel and smart companies like the one in Florida are makin private high speed rail.
And they’re making badass money by doing so. Being energy-smart = good for business, Republicans need to learn that. It would be more productive than the current stalemate.

That's all very abstract an utopian. My advice to you would be the same as for people who like to cite co-ops like Mondragon as potential alternate ways to organize corporations: go build the better mouse trap.

>A regime of private roads will never happen while the government keeps producing plentiful free roads, because you simply can't compete with infinite money like that.

Why? Governments just borrow money and launder the debt through derivatives and everything else. There's nothing to stop a private corproration from doing the same thing a public corporation. Even in terms of scale, we have corporations like Google the get all kinds of government favors and own dark fiber at a scale that would be substantial even for a national-level government corporation to own.

Worried about China, user? 4D virtual Parcheesi bringing manufacturing back to the Midwest.

>Tar sands make money again
It's good for leafs, bad for SUV fags.

$300 would be the absolute maximum point on the spike. one week later every fracking operation on the planet would be up and running

Oh FUCK yes. Take away my freedom of movement. I want to be an agenda 21 bike riding urbanite bugman! I want tesla and google to do my driving and thinking for me! I want Elon Musk to limit my car remotely via software. WE are the future you dumb hick retards, fucking BASED!

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For $300 a barrel someone will probably figure out how to turn coal into oil and make a profit.

lel

Even domestic shipping (think of all the trucking and other logistics involved with everything, along with inventory-on-demand or whatever they call it these days). The modern economy is predicated to a substantial extent on the relative cost of shipping, so if transportation costs go up then that's going to manifest itself not just in the cost of most everything you buy, but also in more macroscopic shifts like needing to adjust the supply chain to adapt to the new cost of shipping.

Good... good.

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>0% down on houses
>normal workers can't afford housing
>Republican president
>still wars in the middle east
>Boarders still open
>Oil is spiking to abnormal levels

I'm having flashbacks of 2005 goyim.

>what is coal seam gas
C'mon leaf your whole economy is based on natural resources you should know about that

Great reason go get our fracking and oil pipelines going.

>implying this won't trigger a second shale boom that fucks the Saudis even more

It is, the car ruined urban development and allowed the spread of suburbia, destroying rural land and making it near impossible for urban dwellers to experience nature without lengthy travel periods. It’s dehumanising. Bring back the horse and cart.

Nigger I'm not taking a damn horse and cart to get groceries or whatever, let alone keeping a horse. If it's not feet and backpack or car and trunk, then it's going to be probably bicycle and saddlebags.

yees 6000$ a barrel

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KEK

We shouldn’t be living at this scale you fucktard. You think cities this size are natural for the human? We should be living with regional centres with surrounding villages, scaled urban development and leave the surrounding countryside available as nature reserve and food production for the local region. Fuck your grocery store and your food that probably travels around the world twice and destroys the soil it’s grown in, just so you can spend your day slaving for some corporation so you can pay for a car to drive a kilometre to the shops. It’s absurd, and it’s going to collapse because people have lost faith in it.

We can hook you up with whale oil too as we did before the oil shit

they do van trips now

That's not far afield from what my city used to be like. It's why I question the wisdom behind forcing in population density to a degree that exceeds the infrastructural capacity of the exiting road network.

america buys a lot of Venezuelan oil. i think we were recently using it to hurt their government.

Oil prices rising isn’t abnormal. After the ridiculous $30 a barrel bottom a few years ago it has been steadily climbing since. It makes sense too because all the opportunistic fracking firms were driven out of business during the lean years. Now as prices keep rising the fracking will start again and prices will lower to reflect change in supply. Middle eastern war has an impact but it can be reduced by ramping up production in the West.

well you also have this.
>gengas
>cars that runs on wood or well fucking coal
it was done during the war it started in sweden as there was a shortage of gas. If you have a diesel car, you can convert it to gengas as they did then.

It's simply burning wood or coal with little oxygen, which produces carbon monoxide and hydrogen which is highly flammable. People do it for sports these days, typical engineering student stuff but also enthusiast

so kinda like turning coal into oil, just skip the oil and go for the gasses instead. you also produce tar this way

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FIFTEEN BUCKS A GALLON

from sweden during the war
youtube.com/watch?v=QEPC-AkhBwg

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then Tesla will take over the world

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kek, if I drive it nice my most inefficient car gets 30 mpg. My other car I've gotten as high as 45 highway. Bring it on, I'd like a cheap truck.

>tfw I got out of oil and gas because it's a shitty industry to work in
I really hope it doesn't, because I really don't want to go offshore again but I know I'll get an offer I can't refuse and I'll do it because I'm a good goy.
I think the industry is too greedy and there's too much oil in the world to let it get that high any time soon. If it breaks $100 again everyone will go right back to turning the tap wide open. Then OPEC will get butthurt that West Texas is taking their market share and they'll tank the market again. Rinse and repeat until alternatives are matured enough to be useful.

That cheap?

The country just about threw a fit not long back when gas prices hit $5/gal. $15/gal would fuck things up bigly. They've managed to slowly get us used to $3.x/gal without complaining.

Gas used to be less than a dollar per gallon when I was growing up. That's a total game changer for young people or people with a lifestyle that depends on operating costs per mile.

If you correct for inflation and living expense increases, $1.00 in 1980 is $3.21 today.

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Sarcasm: If a hedge fund con artist said it, then it must be true!

But seriously, fracking has made America an oil producer and made it cheap again.

Yeah but in the 80s it was normal for a high school kid or below or above to snag an easy entry level job, even if just a summer job, and that'd be enough to cover the costs of driving your friends to taco bell or the mall or whatever. Or if you want to get an old beater pickup truck and patrol for scrap steel on recycling day and make money that way, cost of fuel adds up bigly. So there's a qualitative standard of living effect that I don't think is always accurately measured by the usual numbers.

I remember when it was still $4/gal or so I was getting guff from contractors about coming over to get an estimate for a job just because they were trying to work out the fuel costs of driving there and back again and trying to schedule and combine that with other jobs in the area or if they'd have to go way out of town to get a materials or whatever else.

America is close to self sufficient now

Trump will simply drill more and cap the price at $200 per barrel or something, that's still crazy high and enough to develop every known deposit

also, electric cars will finally take over

no BAD neocon BAD. we need to start tapping the oil reserves we already have so we can flood the market and drop the price of oil to like 30 bucks a gallon. USA has two of the largest oil reserves in the world completely untapped thanks to environmentalist ninnies if we simply stopped exporting oil, declared it a strategic resource and used our own suddenly the global price of oil drops and fucks most oil based economies (looking at you motherland) while simultaneously dropping the price of gas here at home to what it used to be 50 years ago.

this would be huge suicide for petrol/diesel cars, simply because electric cars are finally here, they cant pull that shit anymore

Pretty sure that $300 oil is not going to ever happen, unless they want businesses to shut down and the economy to stop, ruining their own business.

I'm not sure it's environmentally wise at all to tap every known deposit using current technology. And the fetish for electric cars is really just stupid. I wish mentally retarded people wouldn't impose their delusions on the rest of the world.

no
current price about 3 or 4 bucks / gallon

>exploring oil when there is no oil is bad
>electricity is also bad

you sound like a moron

>tesla is mentally retarded

I agree with not pushing technology that isn't ready to be mass produced but to stop pushing the boundaries of society is not in our best interests.

This. People always complaining about "price going up" instead more accurately complaining about the value of their dollar going down. (((Central banking)))

this is strange, that's the best industry to work in here. Incidentally I saw this documentary about a guy from here which had some relatives over in texas. It was so strange because his uncle there worked in offshore and he struggled as hell to even just make ends meet.

Here he would be one of those who earned most with regular workers. It's an upside down world I guess. Offshore is where everyone wants to work here. You earn very well and you also get shitloads of time off.

what the fuck is andurand?

Electricity has its place, but not to the degree that any sane person would regard it as universally superior.

I agree. Tesla's cars aren't interesting for my use case, and I strongly question the financial underpinnings (e.g. all the rich jews who get free electricity and fancy parking spots at work out of the deal), but I think it's pretty cool somebody is making a go of exploring alternatives. It recalls the US auto industry before it got consolidated into the big three.

Somewhat the same here. I work in the oilsands for two weeks on, one week off. I took home just over 125k last year, and that was a slow year. In the 2006-2009 boom, I took home 200k or more per year. I bought my car in cash, and did the same with the wife's car.

On that note, you wouldn't fucking believe the deals you get on cars when you're paying cash. Mine was 72k when they started talking to me. I paid 48k. The wife's was 35k, I paid 21k. Unreal.

>Electricity has its place, but not to the degree that any sane person would regard it as universally superior.
we're talking about an oil shortage economy

and why is it not superior? the sun provides plenty of free energy which we're not harvesting because we're retarded

nice, how did you talk them down so much ?

Wait, so now you're not only saying electric is unilaterally better by observing current generation, storage, and distribution technoogy, but now you're saying it's all going to come from solar?

I mean, that's great idea and all, but you have to understand that the real world has to live in the real world and so you have to come up with real world solutions rather than arbitrary dictations and regulations based on what you'd like to imagine should be possible.

Lucky fag. I tried to buy my last car in cash but I didn't know they would only do that if I had a cashier's check or an account at a too-big-to-fail bank. Ah well, at least they were keen to work something out since it was an easy sale on their end.

ELON DID THIS!!!

well guess we should shill against electric cars anyway

you're shitting on electric in a $300 oil thread? everything from generation, storage, and distribution is ready all that's missing is a powerful incentive

the real world is not the 1970's

Who says it's going to $300 or that I'm shitting on electric? Do you do anything useful for a living or do you just think like a Jew in terms of shifting the incentives so that somehow magically you win the game?

I was / would be a subsea engineer so I get cucked on time off due to rotations because I would go out on a project basis and go home and straight to the office. I made a shitload of money but the lifestyle wasn't worth it. I'm fairly biased and bitter because I left the industry in the downturn a couple years ago because things got so retarded.
Norwegians have it made when it comes to working offshore. Norwegian vessels are objectively the best construction vessels in the world by an order of magnitude. Its a much nicer working environment for the crew. Thanks to Jones Act, we can't use foreign flagged vessels in the Gulf any more so we're stuck with dogshit HOS and Chouest boats. The last HOS boat I was on had a poorly designed HVAC system so the cabin pressure was always lower than outside. You'd end up with throbbing headaches from the pressure equalizing every time someone opened an outdoor hatch. On top of that, they put an oversized crane and superstructure on the vessel and poorly designed sponsons to account for it so it had horrible roll response. So much so that the heave compensation on the crane couldn't keep up because we were rolling so much on a standard install in calm weather. That was their brand new, top of the line vessel.
>His uncle there worked in offshore and he struggled as hell to even just make ends meet
Unless he was a entry level rigger or galley crew he was making $60k+ bare minimum and only working 180 days a year. If he wasn't completely entry level or unskilled labor, he was making 6 figures. Offshore workers are notorious for not knowing how to manage their money.

Nobody is investing in new projects other than the US with shale. And every other country on earth is too retarded to figure out shale

This is true. An example of this would be most if not all plastics require petrochemicals in order to be made on a mass production level.

$300 bbl would be legit ww3 material.

Bro, the "renewable" energy shit is just a pipe dream. You couldn't power a fraction of our civilizational energy expenditure if you covered the whole fucking world with solar panels. Windmills are just as bad, with a net loss of energy if you factor in construction and maintenance. And for the environment angle, electric cars are going to be powered by coal (because nuclear is going out of fashion) until some real progress in energy generation is made. It's actually worse for the environment in sum.

Now if only we could use the smugness of hipsters driving el-cars, thinking they're not polluting, to power shit. Then we could colonize space.

Eat local, shop local, ect...

It's crazy that a hundred calories of romaine lettuce travels 4000 miles to get to me. Adjusting that supply chain will be a century long shuffle unless oil prices accelerate it.

Every single time that they made an offer, I just said "look bud, I'm paying fucking CASH" and they'd run off to talk to the manager. Rinse and repeat a few times, threaten to go to their competition and buy there in CASH instead, done deal. And yes, I more or less yelled the word cash at them. It was almost like flashing the ark of the covenant at them. Fucking hilarious to watch them recoil and scuttle off to the manager.

Almost all the banks in Canada are "too big to fail". You can go to a credit union or something like that, but that only seems handy if you're doing major investing or putting a fortune into savings.

100 Percent THIS.

Opeckers don't have total control over oil supply anymore.

USA hedge fund managers love high oil prices because they get rich off it.

Fuck the bastards promoting $300 oil.