So much this. Why are these "classical liberals" so blind when it comes to discussing the source of all current problems in the West?
So much this...
Nathan Jenkins
Ian Barnes
Because nigger nigger nigger cuck cuck cuck cuck cuck cuck XDDD!!!
Hunter Cruz
Explain how capitalism leads to lobbying if you outlaw lobbying.
Michael Hughes
attacking capitalism is fine until you defend communism in the same argument and then i know you are naive
Wyatt Rodriguez
This is a critique of a mixed economy. The less government spending, the closer you get to pure capitalism, the fewer subsidies for corporations to lobby for, the fewer regulations for corporations to capture, etc. Abolish the mixed economy. Getting money out of politics is technically impossible because there are infinitely discoverable loopholes. It's like trying to stop a sinking ship with your bare hands. The only viable solution is to get politics out of money.
Brandon Cox
True. Too many memes.
Bribery can be both official, that's lobbying, and illegal. Illegal bribery can be quite different in execution. From simply giving a pile of cash to a politician to inviting them to some party, give them certain gifts there. Or promising to get their children into a prestigious university. But the best way is butting your own politician in power. That will do what you want him to. The rich have the money to influence media, public opinion etc. That's how you end up with the swamp. Honest politicians don't get donors for their companies.
I don't defend communism. It's basically the same shit. The rich (or the party) gain all the power and fuck the society. Similar, right?
And guess why America went from almost pure capitalism to corporatism. Over time, the rich promoted their people. And they grew the government. Promoted policies. And here we are. Through capitalism. So, this means capitalism is as sustainable as socialism. At first it's all good, but with time the power gets usurped by those with influence and greed.
Hunter Taylor
You guys are dumb cucks. Have an authoritarian national socialist regime. Ban the jews, ban the niggers.
WATCH ALL YOUR PROBLEMS EVAPORATE IN NO TIME.
Aiden Diaz
Connor Barnes
And what then? You end up with Hitler that caused more deaths of Europeans than most wars before combined? Huh. It werked out, lol.
Eli Johnson
Levi Wood
Oh so your just a fucker trying to start shit okay.
Camden Rodriguez
Michael Diaz
Benjamin Wilson
Jose Campbell
>Bribery can be both official, that's lobbying, and illegal. Illegal bribery can be quite different in execution. From simply giving a pile of cash to a politician to inviting them to some party, give them certain gifts there. Or promising to get their children into a prestigious university. But the best way is butting your own politician in power. That will do what you want him to. The rich have the money to influence media, public opinion etc. That's how you end up with the swamp. Honest politicians don't get donors for their companies.
You're basing this off the fact that Capitalism implies governance, it does not, that is a mixed market economy, not a capitalist economy. This is why the state is not a legitimate institution and it's services should be privatized so no one can suffer than consequences if it is corrupted.
Carson White
Jaxon Mitchell
William Robinson
I know fascism sound like the cure. But who controls the dictators? What if they don't really care about the nation? A revolution? How does a fascist state safeguard the power?
Brody Hughes
Luis Long
Sebastian Rogers
Juan Flores
Okay, what if you privatize the power? It will lead to private competition for power. That's how it works. And eventually you will end up with monopolies and factual dictatorship.
Jace Robinson
Fuck it. Beaver dump to cleanse this mans idiocy. Not like mods do anything to spam threads anyway the lazy fucks.
Gabriel Walker
Leo Green
Jeremiah Martin
Andrew Garcia
Justin Wright
>Through capitalism
No, it happened through representative democracy. The state grows through the incentive structure of its design. Capitalism falls into retreat as the public sector and the administrative state grow.
Capitalism doesn't HAVE to be subject to the dysfunction of a democracy.
Aaron Bell
Landon Lewis
Liam Morris
David Russell
Lucas Thompson
Chase Martin
Jayden Mitchell
Nolan Perez
Jose Cox
>Okay, what if you privatize the power? It will lead to private competition for power. That's how it works. And eventually you will end up with monopolies and factual dictatorship.
Power cannot be privatized, the definition of power I think you're referring to is coercion without consequence. That does not exist in a private company or a private person, if someone acts badly they get fired or their pay cut. You can't create a monopoly or dictatorship without facing severe consequences, and monopolies only exist because of the state.
John Flores
Luke Wood
Connor Nguyen
Brody Fisher
thanks for all the beaver posts they are good reads!
Noah Martin
Jayden Russell
your welcome
Aaron Martin
Colton Wilson
Matthew Price
Nathaniel Smith
Easton Bell
Last beaver I got.
Logan Thomas
You conflate lobbying with capitalism. If you say the problem is regulatory capture blame that, not a nebulous 'capitalism'. Otherwise you sound like an idiot commie. It's like saying oh my window is broken, let us tear down and rebuild the whole house. No jewnigger, just fix the window.
Tyler Gutierrez
Isaac Flores
Nolan Russell
They could be "blind" because America is the greatest fucking country in the goddamn world and it was built of entrepreneurship and capitalism. Go get in your bread line Slav.
Colton Ramirez
>Fascism has an undeserved bad reputation
Stopped reading. Thanks for your shitpost.
Andrew Edwards
So, under what system can capitalism flourish then?
That's not true. Leaders of companies don't get fired for imposing shady business techniques. No, they seek the most profit. Without any regulation they won't care about the environment or the people. Cheap labor and consumption is what they need. The biggest players can easily share the market and agree to kill all competition. That's another form of monopoly you're missing to address.
I don't conflate them. Because capitalism leads to having the rich. Billionaires, extremely wealthy people with almost infinite influence. What prevents them from buying politicians? Nothing. And they do that. And they've started doing that since there was almost no bureaucracy. They have created modern system through their influence.
I'm not a Slav. America is literally the biggest imperialist in the world, it's a shame you can't see that. And guess what lead to that from isolationism. Oh, of course, big fucking capitalists of the military fucking sector.
>let me skip all the arguments
No wonder the Mutt is dying.
Brody Anderson
>Implying the state selling goods doesn't need the monetary benefits which come from selling said good. This naive.
Parker Powell
Hey I like fascism
Ian Nelson
Why?
Isaiah Brooks
>That's not true. Leaders of companies don't get fired for imposing shady business techniques.
There are infinite examples to point this out, and even if you're boss got away with raping someone and they never got arrested, would you not quit and get work across the street? It DOESN'T MATTER what scenario you come up with to ridiculize the situation, having the power to say NO to an EVIL company boss and quit their business, rather than NOT having to say NO to EVIL and you get SHOT if you quit their businss (taxes), is an infinitely better scenario.
>No, they seek the most profit.
We are humans, not psychopathic cold, calculated machines (ironically I just described politicians). Whens the last time you seriously had a boss that didn't allow you to improve yourself, the area around yourself and your company, and did not accept your enthusiasm to improve? Seriously.
>Without any regulation they won't care about the environment or the people.
Misconception, there would be regulation, it would just be contractual. This is a common misconception against Anarcho-Capitalism, "Oh no state, WOW PEOPLE CAN JUST RUN FREE AND SELL HOOKERS AND BLOW". No, not at all. If you were to even remotely live a decent life, your employment contract, your housing contract, your whatever contracts all have built into them RESTRICTIONS ON BEHAVIORS that would damage the feasibility of that contract.
>Cheap labor and consumption is what they need. The biggest players can easily share the market and agree to kill all competition. That's another form of monopoly you're missing to address.
This is called collusion and extortion, and you would be arrested.
I would rather live in a world where my neighbor Ted has a monopoly on toddlers shoes for a month before getting ousted rather than live in a world where we get shot or put in a cage if we don't give tax dollars to pedophile, satanic, psychopathic politicians.
Jacob Gutierrez
>having the power to say NO to an EVIL
That's just idealistic. That's not how the real world works. Money speak. Evil is irrelevant.
>Whens the last time you seriously had a boss that didn't allow you to improve yourself
Guess why people do that. It's morally pleasing and actually beneficial for the company. It brings more profit.
>This is a common misconception against Anarcho-Capitalism
Okay, was it tried? No. Then you can't say how it will work out.
Hunter Jackson
bribery/lobbying has always existed, whether the system is capitalism or not is irrelevant here
Lincoln Lee
Of course. The question is which system will lead to the least of it, and also provide a good standard of living. What do you think?
Adam Morales
Yeah, let's just embrace hardcore cronyism and the destruction of the means of production by attempting to implement Socialism instead of having a constant struggle to prevent it under Capitalism. That's a good solution.
sage this well known ShariaBlue poster
Jace Cooper
True capitalism has been tried and it was amazingly successful.
Mason Young
>The question is which system will lead to the least of it, and also provide a good standard of living
capitalism, believe it or not
only systems with more poor people would reduce bribery (more poor people means less people can afford to bribe) but those systems also reduce standards of living (more poor people)
Brody Gutierrez
What? Nobody is saying socialism is the solution or a better system, pal. I think you're delusional. You probably like Crowder or Shapiro and automatically repeat the same kind of arguments they present when the conversation even comes close to socialism. Oh my.
Oh, seems like socialism was very good in Venezuela too. It was amazingly successful. People were happy. But, like capitalism in the us, in ended with what we have today. And it's totally okay to criticize socialism for phasing out, but not muh capitalism that was so successful it mysteriously vanished. What happened with your capitalism? Who ruined it? Ask yourself that and you will see that it's just as good as socialism.
So far capitalism has lead the West to today. Do you like the cuckening that we have right now?
Hunter Watson
>Do you like the cuckening that we have right now?
compared to the cuckening of the other systems? yes, I'm much better off under this one, hell, I can even afford to bribe if I want to
would you rather be stuck with an even smaller handful of elite? because that is what you would get under any other system
monarchs and their lords
emperors and their senators
communist dear leaders and their top party members
etc.
Bentley Hall
Capitalism was far more successful (greater relative improvement in the quality of life) than socialism ever was, and its success also lasted much longer.
It also didn’t fail as miserably and functions acceptably in a degraded state. Socialism doesn’t do any of these things.
Joshua Torres
Henry Evans
Gabriel Jones
>That's just idealistic. That's not how the real world works. Money speak. Evil is irrelevant.
You're blatantly wrong. Like I asked, and I'll ask again, if your boss was a rapist and he didn't get caught, would you not quit? Or are you too much of a coward to not support evil because of you're livelihood?
>Guess why people do that. It's morally pleasing and actually beneficial for the company. It brings more profit.
Exactly my point.
>Okay, was it tried? No. Then you can't say how it will work out.
I don't care how it will work out. I don't care at all. Do you really think slave owners in the 1800s knew how it was going to work out? Do you think Northerners knew it was going to "work out."? No, they just cared that an immoral practice called slavery ended. Freedom is infinite choice, including chaos, and if you're so cowardly that you think you would huddle in a corner when freedom is truly educated about, realized, and taken upon in practice, because an ounce of the possibility of chaos in an infinitude of vast beauty and choice, you are truly shit.
Jack Adams
Mason Fisher
>Capitalism was far more successful (greater relative improvement in the quality of life) than socialism ever was
Not entirely true lad. It was National Socialism that performed the German economic miracle after all.
Owen Morgan
Which lasted what? 20 years at best? Unfettered capitalism literally created the Industrial Age.
Jonathan Miller
>Which lasted what? 20 years at best?
I mean there was a fuckin war they lost mate
Lucas Anderson
Its not about whether a state can or cannot safeguard power. It's too the extent. In systems of goverment where power is decentralized, it's difficult to take out/change regimes when multiple (in the hundreds) are of the same opinion and all access the same means of power. In a fascist government, a single bad leader and his cabinet can be replaced far easier.
Luke Thompson
Parker Brooks
Yeah, TOTALLY unrelated!