Tfw a grandpa on a cloud can be rekt with simple middle school tier logic

>knowing a person has a choice and knowing the outcome of the choice is the exact same thing as forcing the outcome of the choice

This is true.

You're not getting it. The all knowing part, is knowing that there is a path and a chance to choose salvation.

Not knowing what will/will not be chosen when tested.

You're really validating the stereotype with all this, Kielbasa.

god intentionally made flawed creatures and punishes his creations for actions he already knew they would make by sending them to hell for all eternity without ever being forgiven

that's psycho shit

>Not knowing what will/will not be chosen when tested.

So not omnipotent after all, gotcha.
Not really a god then, just a "Very Powerful Entity" like a space president or something, okay.

Both created by God, with full knowledge of what will happen

That whole logic is based on an atheists point of view and therefore it’s biased and invalid but it’s still easily proved wrong

>2018
>Still posting Hitchens-tier stupidity and thinking it makes you smart
>Not delving into ancient philosophy and theology to come to a greater understanding

Atheism was a mistake.

Oh, so there's a different kind of logic for believers?
The kind of logic that doesn't probe too far and doesn't ask for excessively unambigous conclusions, right?
The kind of logic that leaves just enough wiggle room for your feely jimmies to remain unrustled.

Making it all about the confusion surrounding the term "all-powerful" actually feels pedantic and nit-picky to me. I agree Christians have no good answer to the problem of evil but your infograph doesn't satisfy me

>condescending Christians assuming shit again
This episode is the worst

The christian trump card is 'The lord works in mysterious ways.'

Every religion has a boiler plate that, when logic starts to interfere with their beliefs there is a 'the lord works in mysterious ways' equivalent that allows them to put their head back in the sand.

Evil is the whetstone upon which righteousness sharpens

>when OP's pic is literally based on ancient philosophy and you are too retarded to realize it

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>Freewill
>No evil
Pick one. You’re literally asking for a paradox if you think you can have both.

If God doesn't exist, why or what are we all here for? Legit question because I'll just go neck myself without any consequences.

How do you have freewill without evil?
You're the one committing the logical fallacy

this only disproves the lovey-dovey hugbox god from the new testament
god knew we would be evil. he knew we would suffer and wanted us to.
he after all made us in his own image. of course we would be evil and revel in the suffering of others. he is us, and we are him, eventually.
evil should be punished, and god is evil. these are the realities of christendom.
there is nobody to punish god, so god made us in his image. we have and will continue to grow to resent god, and continue advancing in science and technology until we eventually reach our end state - god.
once we become the new god, we will punish the old god as he has created us to do, as he has foreseen. we are his own image. we are his origin.
and then, eventually, we will seek our own punishment, so we will create people in our own image to punish us as we have foreseen.

Th devil created evil you dumb bitch.
Both powers are balanced equally so we can choose to what side to choose

God can be all knowing and all powerful and just not care about evil. Also who are we to define what evil is? Maybe from his perspective there is no evil. Or maybe he doesn't care.

You can’t have free will and an overbearing God.

someone forgot to read Boethius, St. Augustine, and Plato before making a pseud chart.

well, go ahead then

The very concept of omnipotence is impossible and it btfo's all discussion, omnipotence paradox and all that.
Apparently some thinkers entertain the concept of several levels of omnipotence.
I'm waiting for several levels of "being pregnant", ranging from "totally not pregnant" through "somewhat pregnant", all the way to "decisively pregnant".

>not preventing evil = bad
retarded faggot logic

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>Maybe from his perspective there is no evil. Or maybe he doesn't care.

In that case just replace God with 'the universe' and it all suddenly makes sense.

Evil doesn't exist.

How do you have free will with an omnipotent, omniscient God?

>Th devil created evil you dumb bitch.
Who created the devil?

>Not delving into ancient philosophy and theology
OPs image is literally Epicurus' problem of evil you absolute mong

>1. Evil exists
Wrong. Please try again.

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foreknowledge does not necessitate the events of the future

Why does a father not interrupt right away when he sees his 7 year old getting into a fight?

How do you have free will if you're not free to act without 24/7 intervention? You're committing a logical fallacy you don't seem to comprehend the meaning of free will and you don't seem to comprehend the fact that good and evil can only exist as concepts when contrasted against each other. These are philosophical discussions which were had centuries ago but you apparently still haven't learnt the lessons from them.

Where does it say that god wants to prevent evil?

Why does a father not interrupt when millions slaughter and torture millions?
More importantly: who needs a nigger father like that?

checked
based norge of truth

checkmate gaytheists

Without God there is no absolute good and evil, only your opinions. By admitting objective standards of evil exists, you necessarily admit someone who defines objective standards exists, and only a God can fill such a role.

Furthermore, if humans were not given the free will to commit acts of good and evil, there would cease to be any purpose to our existence.

>Furthermore, if humans were not given the free will to commit acts of good and evil, there would cease to be any purpose to our existence.

Never go full retard.

Why would someone assume god is loving?
kek.

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It's true you no brain monkey nigger, the only reason we have sentience is the knowledge of good and evil.

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Because at least for Christianity, we keep being told that god loves us and his son loves us, and his son's mother loves us, and they're all love personified and love love love love love.

Without concepts of good and evil and free will you would be no different from an animal

>not given free will
>have no will of your own
>can do nothing, act like an automaton
>purpose to existence?
never go full retard

>the only reason we have sentience is the knowledge of good and evil.

We developed sentience to better adapt to our environment. Good and evil are man-made concepts.

It does, especially since God created everything, he created it so with a knowledge of everything his creation would entail.

False analogy, a religious person's best friend

We are no different from animals, we're just smarter.
Our smarts grew and grew until we smarted our way into self-consciousness, which is where we're at. But still just very smart animals.

>We developed sentience to better adapt to our environment
Complete rubbish. High intelligence is a waste of resources and would be naturally selected out of the gene pool.

>Good and evil are man-made concepts
Good and evil can't be man-made concepts because they can only exist with an objective standard of good and an objective standard of evil.

>We are no different from animals, we're just smarter.
You as a Pole may be no different from an animal but I'm not

>threads moving so fast, maybe they won't notice i avoided these!

The best case ive heard is that maybe a universe with the POTENTIAL for evil is better than a universe where there is no potential for evil. Without the ability to be evil there cant really be a way to be good either. So for humans to tsrive and reach to bring good into the world they have to have the capacity for evil.

So the real test of faith is whether or not you think that we could strive for the good hard enough that it would outweigh the evil and suffering of the world.

>You as a Pole may be no different from an animal but I'm not
next on: saying that evolution is just a theory

> I am a robot making pancakes.

when see you a rock in the air, and know that it will fall, does your foreknowledge of it's falling necessitate it's falling?

I'm not a christcuck, but trying to apply human logic to god's will is silly. IF god is real, he does not think like us and so you can't disprove him with something like this.

...

>evil exists
Proof pls.

>Responding to tone
Oops looks like you've committed an error yourself

Explain how it's evolutionary beneficial to waste high amounts of resources on intelligence when we could survive just as easily without it

>Does God want to prevent evil?
No dumbass, he wants us to overcome it ourselves to prove we’re worthy. It’s a tough love kinda deal.

this
God already knows the outcome of our tests, but he wants the point is that WE learn the outcome of our tests.
God's end game is to turn us into 4th-dimensional megacreatures just like him, not through his wizard magic but by our own reflective development.

Islam

Free will is incoherent in the first place but let's examine this stupid argument as if free will existed.

If god revealed himself instead of hiding, Christians say we would be "forced" to obey him and that would violate our free will. This is like saying if your whore wife reveals that she cheated on you, you would be "forced" to divorce her, so she is only protecting your free will by hiding her affairs.

If free will exists and is worth having then there is certainly no knowledge that must be hid from you to protect it. In fact it's actually the opposite. If you have been misled with faulty information, then your behavior is not free, in a sense, because you have been essentially coerced into behaving differently than you would have had you been given correct information

MUSLIMS BTFO

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This is completely nonsensical what a terrible effort

>free will without evil
THEN IT'S NOT REALLY FUCKING FREE WILL THEN IF YOU CAN'T PICK EVIL AND FUCK UP
Free will means you have the choice to pick between good and evil
If you could only pick good
Then it would not be free will

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>Explain how it's evolutionary beneficial to waste high amounts of resources on intelligence when we could survive just as easily without it

Evolution is blind. There is no watchmaker making sure evolutionary resources are used economically.
Some species develop intellience, up to the point of self-awareness.
Others, like insects, do not, yet remain evolutionarily very successful.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc: god is all knowing therefore free will doesn't exist. Logic fallacy, defining a quality (all powerful) doesn't define how it works.

It's the same argument of "if god is all powerful he can create a stone so heavy that even him can't lift, therefore god isn't all powerful" witch it's fallacious: the quality of being all-powerful cannot prevent itself.

So how being all-knowing doesn't prevent free will? If god is eternal and all everything why he should enact the creation to the first place? Well if you are the infinite the only possible thing to do is to make something finite.

When time exist so free will exist (inside the physical universe/creation) when time doesn't exist then also free will doesn't (outside the physical universe/creation).

Fair point except Abraham defied a direct instruction from God and passed the test

Well in the Bible if your whore wife cheats on you, you take her to be executed.

>these mental gymnastics to defend an illogical from the start concept

It is, we survived as a species only thanks to our intelligence, thus it is evolutionarily beneficial

>they can only exist with an objective standard of good and an objective standard of evil.

They are not objective. They are very relative to the interests of the entity thinking about them.

No, your logic is indeed for the middle school mind.

Without differentiation , there is nothing. If you have all 1s , without 0s, they are not significant. 1 means nothing without 0.
You need evil to have good. You need opposites .
The act of creation is differentiation . You create something from nothingness , so it's the opposite of nothingness.
This is a simple rule of logic that even God can't bypass.
Then again, maybe our own concept of a God is stupid and we are just too limited

? what instruction?

>explain how it's evolutionarily beneficial to be intelligent

Your understanding of evolution is too coarse. If all the same evoltuionary pressures were affecting all populations simultaneously, why would there be any species in the first place? Why wouldn't all life be one species?

The answer is that populations find niches, if one population finds one way to live using certain resources and lifestyles, another population can find success trying something different.

It may be that lobsters and bacteria survive just as easily without intelligence, but that is not the case for mammals and especially not for primates. Our niche was cooperation, manual dexterity, and resourceful application of tools, this whole package selects for intelligence

God straight up admits that he causes evil and punishes people. There is no problem of evil, it was him.

Your dad never beat you as a kid?

You can't call yourself good if you want to take away someone's belief in god. Who knows if god does or does not exist, but if it helps people along their way in life, then let them believe.

nice argument, friendo.
You see the answer is no. Your knowledge of the rock falling does not necessitate the rock's falling. It falls all on it's own. (that is, your knowledge does not act upon the rock to make it fall).
In the same way, God's knowing the future does not necessitate it. It happens all on it's own.

Great rebuttal

>Evolution is blind
No it's not the central tenet of evolution is natural selection which you can't use to explain why wasting high amounts of resources would be conducive to survival and reproduction you've just skirted around my question try again.

>They are not objective
Of course they're objective otherwise they're not good and evil they're just choices like what animals make try again.

What do you think the author (a stone age goat herder) meant by this?

This was clearly written by someone who has never studied Scripture.

All evil is human in origin, and God, in his love for us, allows us to experience the consequence of our sin: to do otherwise would be to rob us of our ability to grow and learn.

I find it easier to visualize as a father-child relationship (which our relationship with God largely is, that's why he's called the Father). A parent sees their child about to eat a hot pepper. They've told their child multiple times not to eat the pepper, that it would burn their tongue if they do, but ultimately the child gets to choose whether they obey or not, and the parent knows that unless they keep taking the pepper out of their hand their child will eventually eat it (or maybe they'll listen and won't). Thus the child has free will and the father knows what's going to happen before it happens, AND allows the child to make the choice for themselves so they learn in the only way they can.

Our relationship with God is this on a macro scale.

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You're operating under the assumption that Christians think God has ceased to reveal himself to the world or that he's never revealed himself to the world both of which are wrong try harder next time

>This is a simple rule of logic that even God can't bypass.

So God has to obey the rules of logic?

Our knowledge as mortal it's not capable to understand the big picture, we can't say anything about god other than it exist as basis for all. Checkmate atheist.

guess my friends are psychos then.

>If you have been misled with faulty information, then your behavior is not free, in a sense, because you have been essentially coerced into behaving differently
not precisely. I could have not acted at all, or done a better job of finding information. thoughts?

Not just God's knowledge plays a part, but god's omnipotency as well.
He created everything. He created the whole world. He knows everything that will happen at the moment of creating the world, therefore he knows of the consequences in creating the world the way he does.
Therefore he is responsible for everything in the end and free will doesnt exist.

Maybe this user said it better for you, since you think I'm skirting:

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