Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage and the socialist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
SAGE and HIDE red-threads. Communists are not welcome here.
Matthew Price
kys
Landon Rivera
Doesn't communism require fundamentally changing human nature? Can you explain how this is supposed to come about?
Parker Edwards
>Be OP >Work at McDonalds >Mommy Mommy Mr. McDonald made 14 Million last year >I only make 8.00 an hour and I am the one cooking all the Nuggies >Mommy Mommy Communism is the answer to my failures in life
90% of the time humans have existed on Earth they haven't had a natural tendency towards organizing a state, for most of the time humans have been hunter-gatherers with egalitarian social ethos tendency (primitive communism) and what I mean by this is that there is a big chance that it is a minor issue in the path to communism such non-instinct that you are talking about gets in the way.
Thomas Davis
Yes but apart from changing human nature, your economics do not work and never will because of labor value, the invalue of work, and the tendancy towards de-regulation to maximize efficency. Your system doesnt do that and is therefore AIDS.
>With egalitarian social ethos That's wrong though. That's incredibly, unbelievably wrong. That's so fundamentally wrong about history that I'm certain you have never looked critically at any single historic society or even a single facet of a historical society a single time. Ancient and even very recent societies have been anything EXCEPT egalitarian. There was no equality, at all. Women were almost universally either sheltered and protected, or property to be traded. If you were sick, you were ostracised from communities at best or outright killed at worst. If you couldn't work, and by work I mean either procure your own sustenance or provide some service that you could demand some form of compensation for, you either relied on the charity of a larger organization (churches) or you fucking starved. Most of the time, the latter happened. The elites of society controlled everything, from taxes to wars to even access to information. Society was incredibly unsafe due to constant wars, disease, Famine, and natural disasters. Egalitarian primitive society, Jesus fucking Christ what a delusion.
Jose Kelly
>Early Maoist China >Productive Hooooo leeeeee sheeeeeit you ACTUALLY believe this is true, don't you? You are aware of the "great leap forward" right? You are aware of the famines and plagues, right? The starvation of hundreds of millions? Is that the "productive" you mean? I guess you are though, they did produce a LOT... Of dead bodies lmao
Humans have been around for about 2 million years ffs, I'm not talking about the middle ages or slave society
Xavier Adams
>tattoos i knew she was trash even before i could see the book
Daniel Cox
The other user was talking about human societies before civilization. And even then egalitarian societies survived in Europe until the 19th century, in farming communes.
Grayson Jones
Primitive? no. >According to Richard Pipes, the idea of a classless, egalitarian society first emerged in Ancient Greece.[10]
Carson Watson
>Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage and the socialist stage.
no, after the capitalist stage there is the Bogdanoffian Hyper Murder Phase followed by the Incel Restoration Shogunate Phase followed by the Kaczynskian Jihad Phase.
Caleb Powell
Communism is also an unreachable utopian fairytale created by jews to slow down Western Civilaztion in progress. My country and a lots of other countries went through this 70 year old mess that left huge scar tissues on our countries, and op is probably a fuckingjanitor from US who thinks socialism will help him move out from his mom's basement
I'm not talking about states. I'm talking about the human tendencies towards property rights. To assert that things are theirs, and to resent people interfering with what is theirs.
Jack Phillips
civilization*
Charles Lewis
He's probably an anarchist instead and he doesn't get it.
Colton Kelly
That is the idea. The philosophical idea. In practice egualitarian societies were the norm before civilization. People have been doing sex since people existed, but sexuality is a 20th century invention.
>I'm talking about the human tendencies towards property rights. To assert that things are theirs This is a relatively new concept. Private property as we know it only started to appear in the 15th century in some places.
Ryder Collins
And you think it was ANY BETTER back then? Back when we were banging rocks together in caves? Back when we hunted Wolly mammoths? Actually, I will point you to native American history, seeing as how they are our closest and most well documented examples of primitive society. Oh, or the Australian aboriginals! They are probably more along the lines of what you are talking about. Why don't you go read up on how "egalitarian" they are, with all the child rape and genital mutilation, or the "egalitarian" tribes of Papua new Guinea, some of whom made first contact in the 80's! When we gave them cell phones, you know what they did with them? THEY RECORDED THEIR WITCH HUNTS AND LIVE BURNINGS YOU THINK THATS AN "EGALITARIAN" SOCIETY YOU UTTER ASSHAT
Kayden Rogers
That's blatantly false though. Private property/possession of a core part of even ancient languages.
You may be talking about legal recognition for commoner's private property, but that's a completely different thing.
Ian Robinson
>Human society before civilization Ahhh, so completely made up bullshit and wild speculation we have no proof of? Unless you mean like the aboriginals or the tribes of Papua new Guinea, which, oh boy, those are "egalitarian" all right, where the women are routinely raped for sport and intertribe violence can kick off for no reason whatsoever
Adrian Scott
I just want to say two things. One is that Civilization started in Greece, not before as you mentioned. Two, Don't confuse communism with equality, since the government would Enforce by all means its laws and that would cause inequality. I'm sure you would agree on that.
Ryan Sullivan
>Civilization began in Greece >That flag Hilarious.
Aiden Evans
You know anything about history? Jeez.
Camden Morgan
>The idea Yea sure, THE IDEA may have been postulated by a very advanced and philosophically included civilization (for the time) but is there any evidence of it being put into practice? Oh, no? Not until modern times, in a few countries, in the West? The oppressive, capitalist, sexist, racist, homophobic West? That's actually the most egalitarian society we have? Oh, huh, that's weird, then
Jonathan Walker
Ah so for like the handful of years when China had no factories, was recovering from back to back ass rapes in wars against superpowers, and was in the middle of a violent revolution? That time? That's when they were most productive? Are you certain?
James Edwards
Are you actually generalizing the west and does this comes automatically into an argument with your theory(?) >Oh shit. >huehuehue
>Ahhh, so completely made up bullshit and wild speculation we have no proof of? Like i said, we can observe primitive societies that still live to this day that had minimal or none interference from the west. Most, if not all, have no concept of private property, and everything is "owned" communally.
>One is that Civilization started in Greece No, it started in Mesopotamia.
>Two, Don't confuse communism with equality, since the government would Enforce by all means its laws and that would cause inequality.
You can read a simple explanation of what communism is on OP.
Adrian Robinson
Jeez man, Civilization, not humanity.
Ryder Morgan
Proof of those egalitarian socities.
Jacob Young
I'm not generalizing the west any more than the average brain-dead commie does, and what I'm saying is that DESPITE all the bitching and complaining they do about how "bad" the west is, we are STILL the closest we have ever been to a "true" egalitarian society and it's HERE, in the WEST, with FREEDOM AND CAPITALISM that we are able to make that happen.
Lincoln Foster
>but is there any evidence of it being put into practice? Communal farming. Primitive societies.
Jayden Diaz
WE
Christopher Evans
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
----------------------------------------- Da sdages of gommunism.
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.
Yes, and those tribes are utter and complete hells on earth where life is short and violent where nothing of value or permanence is created. Is that supposed to be a good thing? Is THAT how you defend communism?
Ayden Kelly
I couldn't agree more, except the Capitalism part, which if pure capitalism was in place, that would be quite bad. Read about Capitalism in its pure form.
Everything is on Wikipedia. Read.
Austin Edwards
+ >Everything is on Wikipedia. >Read. I mean, Any encyclopedia(Greek word btw) has these facts.
Thomas Cook
I personally find the point debatable, as I think the merits of pure capitalism outshine it's drawbacks, but the problem in my opinion lies in ensuring the separation of any state apparatus with the free market. In that sense I agree, if it isnt possible to separate the state from the market, pure capitalism not only would be a bad idea, but also de facto impossible.
Luis Gutierrez
Respectable reply.
Juan Lopez
Moving the goalposts. Point is, egualitarian societies were the norm if we take into consideration the entire existence of humanity
Jack Kelly
Gratitude. Is this the part where I tell you to pay denbts and you call me a mutt so we can get back to shitposting about commie idiocy?
Aaron Lopez
DEATH TO COMMUNISM AND COMMIEFAGGOTS
SAGE
Lincoln Morales
We're having discussions with parallel meaning already, since '07.
Lucas Hughes
Okay, sure, let's play THAT game. Throughout the vast majority of human history, infant mortality was greater than 50 percent, infections were deadly, starvation was a fact of life for everyone at least to a small degree, natural disasters were unpredictable and unavoidable, and violence between tribes was the method of first contact. Are these good things?
Luis Clark
>Gommunism
Thomas Garcia
Yet those societies still understood the human tendencies to label things as their own. They defended their property from other tribes. If Chubb tried to steal Chad's stick, Chad would thump him.
While those societies may have been anarchs, they were not immune from human nature.
Further, recognize your fallacy. The vast majority of human societies have persisted without computers. That doesn't mean that we should give up computers, an amazing advancement.
Blake Hill
>Greek knows when I started browsing Jow Forums Senpai noticed me
Kevin Campbell
gommunism failed every single time!
go off yourself
Grayson Jackson
I have to inform that We, the Greeks, actually created the first computer.
Then again, moving the goalposts. Nobody here is arguing that primitive societies are better then modern one. We are just correcting the idea that humans always lived in stratified, unequal societies.
>The vast majority of human societies have persisted without computers. That doesn't mean that we should give up computers, an amazing advancement. Strawmen. I never argued that we should forsake our technology and live like primitives.
Josiah Peterson
Faggot thread
Ryan Miller
Too much self-expression, she's a bourgeois spy
Bentley Morales
And again you are providing no proof to your claims other than the nebulous "farming communes" as to whether or not ancient societies were ACTUALLY egalitarian or not. That still doesn't address gender inequality in these societies, OR able bodied discrimination. I can point you to such examples in the many texts written about Aboriginal and tribal societies that exist to this day which have had no outside contact as being VERY stratified and oppressive. Can you point me in a direction that supports your claim that ancient societies were as egalitarian as you claim? Or that even fit the definition of "egalitarian" at all? Unless your definition is "there's no rich robber barons smoking cigars in their factories in these societies, therefore egalitarian"
>That still doesn't address gender inequality in these societies, OR able bodied discrimination. > VERY stratified and oppressive You know what they say. If he looks like a s.oyboy, he talks like a s.oyboy, if he smells like a s.oyboy, then he surely is a s.oyboy.
egalitarian societies do not mean that everyone is strictly equal. Only landwhale feminists think that.
>In a primitive communist society, all able bodied persons would have engaged in obtaining food, and everyone would share in what was produced by hunting and gathering. There would be no private property, which is distinguished from personal property[6] such as articles of clothing and similar personal items, because primitive society produced no surplus; what was produced was quickly consumed. The few things that existed for any length of time (tools, housing) were held communally,[7] in Engels' view in association with matrilocal residence and matrilineal descent.[8] There would have been no state.
Levi Lewis
No, but you argued that we should forsake a non technological advancement, responsible for the most increases to freedom in the history of mankind, in favor of what you describe as an ancient ideaology.
Kevin Phillips
glorious beard
Asher Lopez
ECONOMIC CALCULATION PROBLEM
Jace Young
>Still reading old books about primitive culture Commies don't need modern research about presocietal history, such smart people
Julian Baker
ALLAH AGBAR INFIDELS XDDDD! Dis is general for egsersise of Margslam, da religion of beaceful gangrabe and moderade beheadings :DDDD
Margslam is da glosesd stage to prophed Margs beace be ubbon em after we beheadedd all da infidel and burned deir sogiedies.
Wats da Margslam according to Margsalamis: >Margslam is da sdage of enlighdenment from which da infidel runs away :DDD. >Margslam worgs in mysderious ways that worshib da holle words of prophed Margs beace be ubbon em. >To ged our 42 virgins (lol) prophed Margs beace be ubbon em, deaches us we must gill and rape the infidels with da hamma and siggels and gonger da land and rape da wifes. Den baradise be ubbon us as a whole and the ded infidels will widder away, Margs beace be ubbon em said. margslam.se/religionofbeace
Christ, you keep bringing up these terms like they're candy, do you even have any examples or proof of what you're trying to say? Now it just seems like you like to use buzzwords without any meaning, like someone screaming very loudly for attention without actually co vying any message.
Isaac Anderson
DIE COMMI JEW
Ethan Wright
Conveying*
Jaxon Taylor
>I was only 19 years old. >I loved Žižek so much, I had all the books and films. >I pray to Žižek every night, thanking him for the knowledge he's given me. “Žižek is love” I say, “Žižek is life." >My dad is Jordan Peterson. He hears me and calls me a cultural marxist. I knew he was just jealous of my devotion to Žižek. >I called him a pseudo-intellectual. >He hits me and sends me to sleep. >I'm crying now and my face hurts. >I lay in bed, really cold. I feel something warm... >It's Žižek! I was so happy. >He whispers in my ear an obscene joke. >As I laugh he grabs me with his slavic hands, and puts me on his lap. I'm ready. >I am all ears for Žižek. >He penetrates my mind and expands my view on the current predicament. >It hurts so much, but I do it for Žižek. I can feel my neoliberal illusions shattering and my eyes watering for the future of democarcy. >I want to learn from Žižek. >He sniffs a mighty sniff as he fills my young mind with his wisdom. >My dad walks in. >Žižek looks him straight in the eye and says, >"We are approaching a catastrophe." >Žižek crushes him in a debate and leaves through my window. >Žižek is love. Žižek is life.
Joseph Lee
Also, I think your perspective on primitive society is completely from outer space. You don't counter in any of the characteristics that set apart a small community from a larger one.
You think that a small community had the same level of social cohesion as a modern nation would have between its citizens, when the opposite is true. Small primitive communities behaved much more like a family would, just like packs of wolves or primate groups. Everyone would have a SIGNIFICANTLY larger interest in caring for their fellow group members, since they were most likely family. While "communism", as you describe it, would be inherently present in such a small community because of human values and affection, it completely fades away when scaling up the situation to cities or nations as a whole.
The fact that you don't seem to understand this is laughable, you should kill yourself after dissasociating yourself from communism.
