I've seen a lot of lefties/normies/SJW-types posting this Karl Popper meme. The claim is that true tolerance must destroy the intolerant. Can't Popper's argument then just be used against tolerating BLM, Antifa, etc?
Popper and Paradox
Ayden Green
Elijah Gray
It's retarded because it works both ways. Hitler thought that he was being intolerant of intolerance, too. Jews weren't having any of that Aryan/Germanic identity or return-to-traditional-values shit, even if the majority of German people eventually came to support it.
It's also retarded because of how it, like most (((mass media))), totally strawmans and decontextualizes Nazis. Newsflash: most Nazis thought that they were the good guys too, liberating their people from what they saw as an oppressive, manipulative force.
Lincoln Young
Intolerance of intolerance is still intolerance, and therefore we also have be intolerant of that, ad infinitum.
Joshua Price
>(((Pooper)))
Owen Harris
>idiotic word games exploiting fuzzy, self-contradictory definitions of emotionally-charged words to push a political agenda
>"He is generally regarded as one of the 20th century's greatest philosophers " t. wikipedia
Matthew Myers
Its a terrible argument anyway, tolerance is not a virtue.
Grayson Myers
that would imply that the left is consistent and fair
Colton Moore
>He is generally regarded as one of the 20th century's greatest philosophers
That's like being a winner in the Special Olympics. Philosophy died with the 19th century.
Thomas Jones
You are now imagining hardcore anal porn starring Karl Popper
Andrew Richardson
It's retarded because it's autistic. Taken this way, tolerance is simply impossible for anyone. Nobody would have any political speech because every political position is about changing the configuration of rights people have.
Fortunately, politics is not about autistic formulas. Realistic tolerance accepts that the thing you're tolerating is a thing you don't like. Tolerance isn't love, otherwise it wouldn't be called "tolerance." What does it mean when you say "I tolerate his existence"? It's refraining from trying to forcefully change someone even though you don't like them.
Realistically, the best thing for tolerance is space. It requires people to be able to disengage from the thing they don't like, so they can be free from the influence of that thing. Forcing everyone together with other people who they disapprove of, tolerance becomes practically impossible.
It also requires people to be allowed to fail. If we keep having to bail out people, then we're going to have a stake in their success or failure so we can't just allow them to do whatever they want.
Landon Martin
>They claim is that true tolerance must destroy the intolerant.
Those leftists don't understand what a paradox is.
>Can't Popper's argument then just be used against tolerating BLM, Antifa, etc?
Yes
Popper's paradox shows the vacuousness of tolerance itself. Any degradation of the moral virtue of tolerance ultimately hurts leftists and individualist politics more than the right. The right never relied on tolerance as a virtue.
Carter Long
someone post the original pic
Sebastian Hall
it just boils down to might makes right.
Jayden Nguyen
Well popper was an anti-communist so it is probably meant too.
Carson Reyes
Why are all ideas supposed to be tolerated to begin with?
some ideas are just plain up lies, if people have to be intolerant towards something, it's towards lies passed as the truth.
Thomas Ortiz
There are numerous problems with the argument. It assumes the only method of intolerance is extermination, the only degree of intolerance is genocidal, that the means never become the ends. And on and on.
It's genocide porn for genocidal people.
Jeremiah James
I'm guessing he's making the "if only Antifa existed and beat up Nazis WWII wouldn't have happened" arguement
Do these retards not know that the Brownshirts were specifically created to defend NSDAP meetings from communist mob attacks?
Justin Reed
Mason Hernandez
This. Also If not tolerating the intolerant was their goal how is it they welcome millions of muslims into our countries.
They are not tolerant what so ever. Culturally, Religiously, Ethnically, Or Socially.
Yet they post this cartoon with hitler and skin heads.
Its all such a fucking joke...its all so fucking tiresome...but most most of all...its just so fucking transparent.
Landon Gutierrez
If you flip the examples you come to the same conclusion. This is why confederation is the only true answer. Think on that for a bit.
Robert Smith
Zachary Thompson
naive logic formulations can't be used for anything but memeing.
There's no actual logic here, its just something that sounds smart
to brainlets and they imitate it as a survival instinct,
same way advertising something looks like it will make your life
better makes people buy something like they just foraged
a whole trove of edible berries and now you're gonna
carry them home and hide them in a burrow.
Because you're a tiny, desperate little rodent.
Here its just a salve to put on your brain
after it occurs to you that your tolerant liberal movement is
actually highly intolerant. It cures the resulting
brain ache before you can really get to thinking
and maybe change your mind.
The really insipid thing here is, even taking the 'logic'
at face value, the result is a paradox.
The conclusion is not "you must be intolerant of the intolerant""
the conclusion is paradox: i.e. "tolerance is intolerant"
which would point to tolerance being an impossible state.
The practical message is "everyone is intolerant"
Lincoln Mitchell
Post the commie one too.
Nicholas Hughes
Sadly don't have that one.
Hunter Campbell
It can be and especially socialists and statists.
Physical removal for leftists
Samuel Murphy
Whoever frames the issue decides what is tolerance and what is intolerence.
Might is right.
Gavin Phillips
Leftist never apply this to Islamists or Antifa. This double standard is the actuall problem.
Jason Ward
That it even is a paradox means that it has survived as a meme. Holy shit the quality of western (((intellectuals))).
Carter Sanchez
Who decides what's intolerant? Karl Pooper?
Jacob James
>we should censor certain forms of speech because what if they take over the world?
Austin Price
>right-wing authoritarians come to power
>there is now precedent to oppress left-wing thought by calling it "intolerant hate speech"
Mason Martin
This is why tolerance is such a retarded philosiphy, it first fosters a sense of love and accepting for all differences among it's population, and then it somehow it arbitrarily decides when its time to stop tolerating something.
Hunter Harris
So who gets to decide who's being intolerant and who's enforcing tolerance with force? Somehow I have the feeling that the most intolerant thing that will need to be suppressed is dissenting opinions against the people who get to deside.
Aiden Brown
It's a fallacy.
I'm tolerant but my tolerance requires intolerance to degeneracy otherwise degenerates will destroy me and my values.
"Tolerance" isn't some pre-defined set of values, it's the dominant ideology of the era that determines what is tolerance.
Ryan Butler
yes
Camden Thompson
True tolerance can only be backed by a police state. I'd rather chose true freedom backed by my right to bear arms
Adrian White
Was looking for communist one, found a different Islamist one
Aiden Sanchez
>The Open Society and its Enemies
Fucking A right.
Nolan Miller
Being intolerant against those who are “openly intolerant” makes you also “openly intolerant”. This doesn’t avoid the paradox. Saying stuff like “tolerance will die” is meaningless. Tolerance isn’t a thing that can die. Everyone tolerates many things everyday. They are just using it as a political buzzword for muh (((western values))).
Tyler Roberts
Good one
Ryan Walker
Gabriel Robinson
It's a retarded meme for many reasons:
1) No definition of "tolerance" or "intolerance" is given, leaving them at the personal interpretation of anyone; ironically, even Nazis themselves could use the same exact argument to justify their actions
2) There's a blatant slippery slope fallacy (wearing swastikas --> being nazi --> destroying tolerance)
Samuel Ramirez
I'm starting to think that a violent confrontation is the only way to solve an ideological conflict in the long term.
Anthony Robinson
It's pilpul. When they stop using logic, they set up which groups to favor based solely on their own preferences and prejudice. He can rationalize it by calling it a paradox, but the reality is it's just him being bigoted. And every brain dead moron who agrees with him, too.
Cameron Parker
But the Nazis were the good guys...
Jacob Perez
>I've seen a lot of lefties/normies/SJW-types posting this Karl Popper meme.
They are retarded children with not a single independent thought in their idiots skull, they heard soros talk about popper in his retard lectures and that is enough, yes a banker billionair saying shit is enough for the progressive, communist far left mrorons so the repeat it ad nauseum.
They are truly just stupid children in adult bodies, not a single doubt left in my mind.
Charles Diaz
It's bullshit. This image macro itself says it's a "paradox." No. It's not a paradox, it's hypocritical.
>I'm extremely tolerant, except towards people who disagree with me.
Pure 1984 double-think.
Tyler Anderson
Alarm bells should have been ringing when one of your core beliefs is a paradox. Also probably should have been worrying that it relies on well-defined "good guys" and "bad guys"
This is like a child's attempt at philosophy, it's so naive.
Sebastian Brooks
Justin Gray
An intolerant ideology would never get traction in a tolerant society.
And if it did then it tells a lot about the situation.
Levi Thompson
Eli Sullivan
Well Hoppe is alright if political philosophy is counted.
But yeah the rest went to shit, I wonder (((why))).
Parker Cruz
>no see if we can't scream for all minorities to be deported and or lynched violently by the master race of whites so we can have our own ethnostate then it's totally not fair to let some other people march so they stop being executed by state sanctioned officers of the law who are then given paid vacation time from work for their fuckups
Logan Jenkins
Why is the Kaiser giving a chance to Hitler? The republic of Weimar didn't have a Kaiser.
Luis Martin
It is if you are a whore. A greatly tolerant pussy and asshole is what you end up with in exchange for some cash. The doctrine of societal tolerance is the doctrine of a whore nation. We typically regard whores as less valuable than faithful women anyway.
Jose Cox
>so they stop being executed by state sanctioned officers of the law who are then given paid vacation time from work for their fuckups
So we should be tolerate of criminals?
Noah Peterson
>Should a tolerant society tolerate niggers?
Dominic Reyes
>all of his grandparents were jewish
Check!
Isaiah Baker
I am 99% sure that's Hindenburg
Jordan Sanchez
it's Hindenburg
Luis Gonzalez
>thinks they have an answer to a paradox
>literally being paradoxical
Isaiah Ramirez
Yes. Just redraw it with a Caliph instead of Hitler and change none of the text
Dominic Davis
George Soros got his open society ideas from Popper.
Michael Lewis
But not being NatSoc is intolerant of my people, also I think that inherently defending societies that enforce 5th column immigrant populations is in fact neo-slavery
Nolan Taylor
In your examples, no. The stated purpose of the groups you list are not intolerance.
Jow Forums's unlikely dream is to recruit enough "normie" whites into their intolerant ideologies in order to wipe out or move out all non-whites.
Again, it's an uphill struggle. People have such varied perspectives and personalities. You have to have a majority of "normies" convert to Jow Forums, and you would need all/most minorities to stop voting for the next several cycles.
Grayson Flores
His ears still needs to be fixed
Ethan Walker
True, but user's point is that people adopt ideas because they think they are good. No one genuinely adopts a worldview which they know is wrong and evil. When a communist defends communism, he genuinely holds that communism is a good thing, despite it being wrong. The same goes with progressivism, liberalism, cuckservativism, libertarianism, ancap and so on. The Nazis viewpoints were adopted for 3 reasons.
1) They had a lot right.
2) Because they had a lot right, they knew how things worked and created good results for awhile.
3) People believed it to be a genuinely good thing.
Eli Morgan
That image is so mind-numbing in its stupidity I can't even begin to deconstruct the "logic" behind it, but I'll give it a go.
>should a tolerant society tolerate intolerance
If we are to use any meaningful definition of tolerance, then yes, but bending what tolerance implies to fit a certain agenda robs it of any genuine virtue.
>you want more tolerance? Respect my ideas
Nobody would say that because tolerance doesn't have a metric, it either exists or it doesn't, it's the state of tolerating other people's beliefs, lifestyles etc.
>it's a paradox, but unlimited tolerance can lead to the extinction of tolerance
It is a paradox indeed, 'unlimited' tolerance doesn't exist, it's just tolerance and it can lead to all sorts of things, the true question is whether you hold tolerance at a high enough importance as a value to risk having it.
>when we extend tolerance to those who are openly intolerant the tolerant ones end up being destroyed and tolerance with them
When you don't 'extend' tolerance to those who are openly intolerant you are also yourself openly intolerant towards them, so it begs the question of whose intolerance is justified, the comic creator believes that the intolerant ones that he's not tolerating have distorted reasons for their intolerance while his own intolerance is simply a result of his opponents' intolerance and thus justified in order to protect tolerance in society, except as I first stated that definition of tolerance is entire meaningless, dishonest. It would be much more honest to simply say you're practicing preemptive self defense against people whom you believe are conspiring to take away your rights. Just don't call it tolerance.