Will the traditionalists ever regain control of the Catholic Church?

Yes. Though the church struggles now, there will be a resurrection. We are not dying, but teething!

I don't see it, the future of Christianity is largely Latin American and they produce tons of Marxist-esque Left-wing liberation style cardinals and the like.
what, that's retarded

"Since Traditionalism, in its fundamental principles, is a kind ofFideism, it falls under the condemnation pronounced by theChurchand under the refutation furnished by reason and philosophy againstFideism."

I hope not, catholicucks.

It's happening now but they have no support from powerful entities. No one cares where the church goes as in both ways, the results will be the same.

>Jesus was not saying that the church will be built upon Peter but upon something else.
The femine rock is the "bride of Christ" the church body, the the saved believers in Him.

The Church has been changed from outside the Vatican in the past.

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This argument has never made any sense to me. The word "petra" in Koine Greek is a feminine word. It was masculinised by Christ because he was referring to Peter, a man, in making the analogy between Peter and the rock. He wouldn't call Peter "Petra" because this would be grammatically incorrect and probably also insulting as an implication that Peter was not a man. It's the same in Latin. You wouldn't call a woman "Rufus" (a name, meaning "red haired) even though the adjective itself is masculine because it's gramatically incorrect. You would have to feminise the word and call her "rufa".

The people who make this argument and think they come across a linguistic clincher, it seems to me, have absolutely no familiarity with gendered languages. It's a non-argument as far as I'm concerned.

We're all heard of the Petra-Petros distinction before. Of course Peter is the small stone and the body of all Popes is the large one

And anyway, Jesus spoke to the disciples in Aramaic, not in Greek

If the Book of Revelation is to be believed, the whore of Babylon is the unclean faction of the body of believers who resides in the "Babylon" with 7 hills... Rome has 7 hills and was ruling israel in John the fishermans day. It follows that it is the rcc. So no, they will be the driving force behind the antichrist.

That's true, the priests from the various churches I go are clearly left leaning. One of them even explicitly said distribution of wealth as a positive future

>the future of Christianity is largely Latin American

You mean Asia and Africa, right?

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We're like 2% of the Church, no.

>the body of all Popes is the large one
Oh how your mind works. The bride of Christ is the body of all who believe in Christ. The references to the church body being the church itself is made through out the bible. Even in Moses time, God said for the leader does not make the church

Exodus 27:20 / Leviticus 24:2
The church body has to bring the oil - the passion.

There Is no Pope in the bible, and even Moses was given little significance to the body.

But Moses obviously came before Jesus and the Gospels, idiot.

No, traditionalists spend far too much time bickering among themselves about who the REAL traditionalist is and then they sperg out with this fucking siege mentality that is counter-intuitive and not conducive to them 'taking over'

t. spent a bunch of years in both the SSPX and also with the frassati oratory cliques

its all just so fucking tiresome

You're literally saying that Christianity should be more like Judaism

If the nature of God is described in the new testament it is also in the old testament, lest it be self-refuting. Christ speaks of the same important of the believers as the church--- not your ornate gilded idea of a church with a pope. Same against protestants, a church is not a small business owner trying to pay the power bill and mortgage with your tithes pr a megachirch that spends $750,000 on a light/sound system.

Matthew 23:1-3
>Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. 3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not.

Why do we have this discussion like 300 times a month? And yes.

catholicherald.co.uk/issues/september-1st-2017/the-kids-are-old-rite/

who said this. please tell me

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If you're against the idea of a hierarchical church as well as against Protestantism then what exactly is there left for you? Nothing at all

I imagine his "personal relationship with God" will have to suffice. In other words he wants to go to heaven but doesn't feel like getting up on Sunday morning lol

He must also be one of those "once saved always saved" people then. Say that you believe in Jesus one time, then that a break from all that Christianity stuff for the rest of your life

That the Bride of Christ is the Church, which is constituted by the faithful - both laymen and clerics - is beyond question, and this is the traditional Catholic interpretation of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ.

But your attempt to write the priesthood out of the equation by implying that the Church is merely a nebulous body of laymen who believe in God is pretty questionable. I can see no reason, working under your assumption, that Christ should have Apostles at all. Why not simply preach to the masses? Why bother choosing twelve men and ordaining them at the Last Supper? Why would these men then go on, after Pentecost, to establish Sees abroad under their pastoral care? Why bother asking Peter to feed His lambs and sheep? Why bother differentiating between "lambs and sheep" at all?

Speaking of continuity between the Old and New Testaments, why would God, who had established the Levites and the Kohanim, simply disband a priesthood after the Incarnation and crucifixion, death, and resurrection of Christ?

I consider myself to be among the body of believers of Christ. If it matters to you, I attend a small protestant church. I'm aware as I said I my previous comment, that say... Two members of the church account for 90% of the tithing, and both are divorced and remarried... That said preacher has a financial reason to stay from the word of God and not preach on the abomination of divorce. It's a draw back and I bring it up in Sunday school occasionally as a hypothetical.

Spec in eye and removing the log in your own eye.

If you don't see past the rcc and consider yourself a member of the body of Christ first and foremost you'll be dragged down with them.

Interesting, but what does that mean, what is the rock and what does this apply to?

Because it's important. Because the Catholic Church is the most important institution on the face of the earth, so what happens to it matters to everyone.

That exit sign breaks the mood and décor.

It's a non-argument, seriously. It's one that's posited by American Protestants who speak English and, because English is a non-gendered language, they don't understand how gendered languages operate or why Christ would masculinise a feminine word - petra - when using the noun as a name for a man.

>Two members of the church account for 90% of the tithing, and both are divorced and remarried

Maybe throw a few dollars to your church or try a Catholic one then?

Yes if Cardinal Sarah or a similar papabili gets elected

This is just hearsay, but supposedly somebody on Twitter who's plugged in in Rome says that if a conclave were held today, Cardinal Burke would be elected. Which would be just as good as Sarah, perhaps better in some ways.

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It's a weak argument. Jesus spoke Aramaic and used "kepha" in both instances of "rock". Since the "-a" ending is feminine in Koine Greek, Matthew translated the name Peter as "Petros" and the "rock" as "petra", since the gender didn't matter in that instance.

Fine, even if it isn't an argument, what does it mean to build on a rock or on Peter? Who believes what and what is the significance of the statement to either side, whichever those sides are?

Well, what is a rock? It's solid and a good base to build on, and Peter is that rock, despite him having denied the church's cornerstone 3 times

Link?

I like his antifeminist stance and his belief SSPX will come back into the fold.

>I don't see it, the future of Christianity is largely Latin American and they produce tons of Marxist-esque Left-wing liberation style cardinals and the like.

Nah, the future of Christianity is largely African if going by simple population numbers, so people should expect a sheer turn towards hard traditionalism.

From the Catholic perspective, it is clear: Christ has nicknamed Simon (Peter's actual name) "Peter" (the masculine form of "petra" - rock) and upon this "rock" Christ has promised to build His Church. Subsequently, Sts. Peter and Paul travel to Rome where St. Peter establishes his See as the first Bishop of Rome; the first pope. Each subsequent pope holds the same Petrine Office in a direct line of Apostolic succession going back to St. Peter. They hold the same mandate that Christ has given to Peter: to feed His lambs and to feed His sheep; that is, to be the supreme pastor of His Church, not only a pastor himself but a pastor of the pastors.

Protestants, as you can see by this thread, try to navigate around what is a pretty clear verse using linguistic chicanery that works on no one other than those ignorant of linguistics, which is pretty devious in my estimation.

Orthodox dude, trust me. I used to be at a church just like that with similar opposition to Catholics.

twitter.com/MCITLFrAphorism/status/986280515232821248

>Call a crusader a "Christcuck"

Get head immediately removed with sword for being unGodly swine.

Religion is bullshit. It's literally the reason the world is in the state it's currently in.

DURR, SKY GOD. DURR, JEWS ARE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE, WE MUST ALL BEND THE KNEE FOR THEM. IT IS GOD'S WILL.

Religion literally destroyed this planet. Stop believing in bullshit and start meditating.

>he doesn't believe in God but he believes in forcing himself to stop thinking for repeated intervals

Really makes you... think?

Yes if the SSPX and FSSP wins the fight against Jews which they're fighting right now. Please say your Rosary for them they're one of our only hopes

>Jews are God's chosen people

Catholics and Orthodox don't believe that Jewish lie. The Roman Church always tried to convert them, to no avail.

Go peddle your new age trash somewhere else. Your "meditation" has been lifted from the East and is inferior in literally every respect to prayerful contemplation. If you spent less time trying to clear your head (that is, be empty-headed) and achieve "zen" you might have known better than to invite yourself into a thread about traditional Catholicism to promote your tripe.

Look up the book of Zion. Some people will try to tell you that it's all fake, but it's not. Jews live by that book.

Your traditional bullshit is just that, bullshit. Bullshit made up a long time ago by Jews in order to subvert and control you.

You mean the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Why bother? Catholics aren't Evangelicals who donate their lifesavings to "starving Israeli children". We have a long history of confronting Jews over their subversive, immoral, reprehensible behaviour.

It's a reference to the fact that the apostles would be part of the foundation of the Church (Ephesians 2:19-22), with Peter being the "first" or chief apostle. It also refers to Peter's papal infallibility, granted to him and his successors through the unfailing faith (Luke 22:31-32), the keys to the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 16:19), and the pastoral authority as the earthly shepherd of the Church (John 21:15-17), that were given to him by Jesus.

Wow, so enlightening. You've really blown my mind with that groundbreaking argument.

controlled opposition

Nope, you guys not "retarded" enough like us, that can be triggered by a bottle cap.

why would jesus speak greek?

It makes a lot more sense than believing in an invisible Jew in the sky, leaf.

Wrong
culturewars.com/2016/JewsMuslimsvsSSPX.htm

Just curious, but do people like you actually believe that when we say God, we mean a magic man in the sky? Or is it just low-effort strawmanning?

It makes no sense whatsoever and had you bothered to look up how New Ageism was introduced to "the west," by whom, and for what purpose, you might be left thinking long and hard about just how thoroughly you've been conned, probably followed by embarrassment at having proven yourself so smug in the company of those who know better. Now kick rocks.

I didn't see Christ say a thing about apostolic succession or popes. The rock is the body of believers present. The schism and reformation resulted in a larger body of believers. And if you'll excuse me not worshipping the godess Mary, we have a lot in common.

jesus was the first christian, he's not jew at all, joseph was jew but mary was Egiptian.
>tfw when jesus was WE

Catholics venerate Mary because Jesus himself did that and we want to live like him

Get with the times pleb, Rome was never Christain, it created the religion using exclusively pagan material as a mode of macro population control.

Look at your own pic

>The thorn staff, leafy gold on the purple capes
>templar/Maltese cross of the elder solar configuration
>virgin moon goddess/venus or the polar configuration

Rome doesn't even practice that which is preaches

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You're delusional, leaf. You'll never admit it though. Brainwashed beyond belief. I'm a very spiritual person, but religion especially Christianity, is all bullshit, made with only the intent to control people.

You are nothing but a slave to the Jew. Go to bed tonight knowing that.

Nope it's fucked

The Bible said this would happen- it's "the Great Falling Away"

they're in the most theologically compromised position possible on the crisis in the Church by accepting Vatican II as valid while actively resisting most of its changes.

this