When did people stop wanting to hear divergent views? I'm 50 years old, and I remember a time when I used to have discussions with people who held very different views, and we were genuinely interested in each other's perspectives. Now, people have all retreated into echo chambers where they are never exposed to views different from their own, and when an outsider appears they either savagely attack or actively shun that person.
It's become so bad that I've become a hermit, hardly ever leaving the house. The very idea of discussion has vanished, replaced by non-stop vapid chit-chat with no content or meaning. In fact, I find myself treated like an absolute lunatic for even talking about stuff like this, as if the world has *always* been like this when I know for a fucking certainty that it hasn't.
Prediction: This comment will be completely ignored in favour of comments which allow the loyal tribes of specific ideologies to mindlessly re-re-re-repost their opinions to the applause of their echo chamber.
I'm not a boomer, I'm gen-x. But thanks for demonstrating the immediate instinct to circle the wagons and otherize the scary intruder.
Jordan Carter
It's the Clinton divide. One side said the economy was great, the other said we had a rapist in the White House. Both were right, and the differences were irreconcilable.
Clinton "proved" that "character no longer mattered", and that as long as the economy is roaring, a certain percentage of the population will tolerate any behavior, even defending a disgraced and disbarred attorney held in contempt of court, impeached, with very strong allegations of brutal, physical rape against him.
The youngest "boomer" is 53 years old, you fucking faggots. I wish "boomer" was censored like s0yb0y was.
Camden Rogers
Whenever I'm out with friends who are liberals I almost always bring up politics. They don't talk to me any more because I always win the arguments
Juan Fisher
>you kids Being an oldfag must be a pathetic existence, knowing full well that you didn't do anything to change the path we are currently on. Keep whining about anyone who isn't an oldfag, because clearly the 80s nostalgia is the only thing you cling to.
You're clearly not interested in discussion. You haven't even bothered to address the meat of my original post. All you're doing is using it as a springboard to make comfortable mouth noises while trying to "score points" on an imaginary scoreboard. This is exactly what I was trying to point out. WHY? Why aren't you interested in anything but your narcissistic little circle-jerk of self-reinforcing chatter?
Jaxon Peterson
The left turned everything to nothing and was only left with power.
Not even kidding the entire post modern thing has turned into all values are nothing and the only thing that matters is power. Identity politics pc culture all this shit is just an attempt to control. Everything must serve that control and anything that doesn't serve must be destroyed.
Even the issues themselves must serve or they turn into enemies. The left honestly needs to burn and be reborn. I thought liberals would do it after Trump one but everyone is just sitting on the side lines watching shit get worse.
I've spent my life as a community organizer and radical unionist, I've been covered by the media more or less non-stop for more than two decades, and I'm notable enough that there's a Wikipedia article about me. I've been peppersprayed, pepperballed, peppergassed, teargassed, watercannoned, soundcannoned, bitten by dogs, trampled by horses, beaten with truncheons, arrested, sued, imprisoned, maligned by the media who have called me everything from deranged to an extortionist, and spent the last four years of my life along with every penny I ever saved to construct a community centre for outcasts. I think I've done my part to "change the path."
Leo Lee
tfw revolution is coming
Michael Ward
the left simply can not meme
Nolan Reed
because ideas have consequences now
Xavier Thompson
ITS THOSE FUCKING BOOMER SHILLS THAT KEEP RUINING THIS COUNTRY Reddit has a shitty upvote system, so you pretty much have to censor yourself if you make a good point against popular opinion. Jow Forums is more about seeing who can be the most hateful with no basis in reality or even reading comments, creating a knee jerk reaction idea. Looking for those pearls in a sea of shit and piss
Society is sick and needs to fixed, or we'll end up in concentration camps soon enough.
Though I prefer Jow Forums because I can say whatever without some shitty vote system. Though the attention seekers are the shitty part of Jow Forums. Almost like gold fish
Gabriel Roberts
I think it's the post-WW2 mind control pushed in the K-12, which itself was a mind control tool from the beginning, schools and media. After WW2 the government went crazy with education. They implemented more and more social functions into schools to imitate religion. The 60's began much of the switch over to behavior conditioning focused "schools." I've read a lot on this and my sources are all over the place, but I' telling you the world changed after WW2. The big fish(America, Russia, China) started learning from each other's mind control techniques. The modern society is the result of a mass veil being pulled over the plebs heads.
youtube.com/watch?v=Mr-aEtJVVdk Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt served as the head of policy at the Department of Education during the first administration of Ronald Reagan. Exclusive interview with Iserbyt breaks down how conditioning/training under a corporate agenda has replaced traditional education, leading to a deliberate dumbing down of Americans. Iserbyt further explains how Reagan signed agreements merging the U.S. and Soviet systems under the United Nations banner, turning over education and many other areas of public policy to global control.
This is Jow Forums old man. It's the concentration camp for the retards of Jow Forums.
Logical discussion cant be found here.
Luis Collins
>I'm 50 years old, and I remember a time when I used to have discussions with people who held very different views, and we were genuinely interested in each other's perspectives. Italy is still like this
Ian Wilson
I take that as high praise. Most people think I'm in my early 30s because rebellion keeps me young. "Growing up" is an ironic phrase, because it makes the precise point where you *stop* growing. I hope I remain an angry and outraged teenager until I'm wrinkled and grey. Mother Jones was still facing down riot cops and company goons into her 90s.
>I know for a fucking certainty So, you know it as a certainty, huh. I'd love to see the studies you conducted in regards to this idea, where does the data come from? I'm sure that someone who enjoys proper discussion liek yourself wouldn't make such a bold claim without strong evidence to support it.
Brayden Cox
I'm 50 years old too, and I deplore people like you. My dad is like that. Your "views" never changed the world.
You have no idea what "left" and "right" mean. I'm guessing you're also unaware that they're also not synonymous with liberal and conservative. Like most Amerikans, your conceptions of political science are based on utterly topsy-turvy definitions which invert the actual meanings; for example, I am a mutualist, which makes me slightly right of centre, but I doubt there's anyone here who'd think I'm anything but a "radical leftist" because I'm an anarchist.
Easton Jackson
'Echo chambers' are driven by the positive aspects of in-group bias more than negative. Whilst it was previously believed it was phenomenon like cognitive dissonance it is actually more likely self-affirmation, and an innate drive for confirmation bias, which has led to the creation of echo chamber and filter bubbles.
People try to pass off the blame to social media algorithms and new forms of tribalism as if these psychological processes aren't implicit. The best way to break an echo chamber is to avoid source bias. People will day in, day out, directly access information from sources they know to be biased. Whether thats Breitbart, CNN, the Guardian, or Fox.
Echo chambers are entirely voluntery creations, and actually very easy to break.
(Krasodomski-Jones, 2016), (Garrett, 2009), (Quattrociocchi, Scala, and Sunstein, 2016), (Barbera et al, 2015).
Chase Johnson
well once I learned that marxists come in two shapes, liar and idiot, and that they are either deluded fools who can't be trusted to make decisions or who will lie to you abpout incrementalism (dont hate gays/bake the cake/say the pronoun/children can consent) it then became a matter of self preservation.
Compromise a little bit at a time until you are left with nothing because their indignation always starts anew and the goal post must be moved further....or just kill them and be done because killing you is their ultimate end game goal anyway. But they can't do it, they have to convince you to kill yourself.
No, nothing to discuss, stop being a commie or die.
I know for a fucking certainty because I WAS THERE, brainiac. I lived through a time when people behaved differently. Young people have no conception of how different the world used to be before the Internet, cellphones, social media, and newspaper consolidation. In some ways the world was much less progressive -- casual racism, normalized sexism and homophobia -- but people also routinely hitch-hiked and gave people lifts, left their doors unlocked, and allowed their children to roam freely wherever they pleased with no supervision.
There was also genuine interest in listening to other people's points of view, even when you didn't agree with them. People were *interested* in things. They had a hunger to understand. People, by and large, didn't lock themselves into echo chambers and do everything in their power to force out divergent opinions.
James Carter
Politics has become so divided that people of opposing views can't even understand the very base of the other side anymore. So how can you listen to someone if you think the very core of their ideology is fucking shit?
Also that user is right, the incredible egoism of the boomers mirrored down to their few children and now we have a world consisting or arrogance and self-righteousness. This is what happens when you believe you own the whole world and the world starts to collapse, you blame it for your own actions
Chase Foster
You were different, but of the same nation. That's not so anymore. Even many whites are not american, but citizens of a global progressive movement.
Lincoln Sanders
oh no user it is reality...you are in it right now, it is the void of space upon which your ship of government sails...even if Hitler or Stalin themselves govern you this moment, you still have no ruler but yourself...you can choose to disobey or comply.
You literally cannot escape the fact that so long as you retain agency at all in the slightest it is you who decides what actions you will take regardless of consequence.
The devil himself could order you upon pain of eternal torment to eat a turd...he can physically force you to do it...but he cannot force you to want to and decide to do it.
Zachary Morgan
Ok, so lets talk about anarchism. I don't think a society can function without a leader, hierarchy and a chain of command. People are naturally built to obey orders from people that they view as their superiors. I think milgram experiment demonstrates that pretty well. Here's some food for thought: youtube.com/watch?v=UfdRYVCXluc
Jace Gray
Millenials ruined it all. >Disclosure: I'm a millenial, and I fucking hate my lazy, degenerate, borderline legally mentally-retarded generation
Jacob Brooks
>that boomer who's still in his edgy phase
Asher Campbell
This isn't a new phenomenon, though. Have you read Postman's _Amusing Ourselves to Death_? He was utterly prescient in his alarm at the Internet and what it was doing to our culture, but he describes in detail the descent into the post-literate, anti-intellectual dark age which is upon us, pointing out that literacy in the US peaked in the 18th century and has declined every century since.
Social media may not be wholly to blame, but it provides a feedback loop which has caused the slide into narcissistic self-absorption to turn from a gradual decline into a wild toboggan ride to the bottom.
Jonathan James
then how did society form from the beginnings marked by a lack of such i wonder...
Juan Ross
Well, people move on. They don't sit around and think the same way forever.
Christopher White
>cries victim >b-b-but I done muh part >wah.jpeg Seriously, it's like you faggots have no self awareness. If you think acting like a dumbass moth to the flames is a good idea, no wonder your generation is a complete and total failure that is trying to blame millions of kids who weren't even alive when you made your dumbass conclusions about the world. Talking to anyone Gen-X and older is like talking to a goddamned fucking muppet. Ooh yeah, awesome sacrifice gramps. You're complaining about shit that Johnny Knoxville did for our entertainment. Quit being a little bitch. That goes out to the rest of the oldfags ITT as well.
>"M-muh free will" Yes, everyone at all times act without the influence of outside sources, from their free will alone Lets just disregard human instincts of: Survival, desire to fit in and identify with other humans. If you genuinly believe what you just wrote, you are retarded.
Carter Cox
>I've been peppersprayed, pepperballed, peppergassed, teargassed, watercannoned, soundcannoned, bitten by dogs, trampled by horses, beaten with truncheons, arrested, sued, imprisoned
And people ignore you when you try to spout your shitty Marxist politics. Perhaps the common theme here isn't everyone else you ever run into.
I'm guessing your tribe has been kicked out of 109 countries already and you can't figure out why that happens either.
Noah Baker
Nice try, oldfag. Literally no millenial thinks this, unless they've been brainwashed into being a premature oldfag. Shit's not even logical. Did someone touch you, user?
The nature of Man is anarchist. For 200,000 years, our species was anarchist. To this day, most stone age communities are anarchist, such as the highland Yanomani, where there is a tribal council of elders, but they hold no formal authority and their advice it purely voluntary -- followed largely because it's good advice.
You saw the same thing among tribes like the Cossacks, where they had a hetman, but he had to rule through consensus in practice because anyone who got angry enough was free to separate him from his head with a cavalry sabre and take his place.
Luis Jenkins
and what of any of that you listed precludes your free will...you may want to fit in with fart sniffers but are you so weak that you are compelled w/o choice to bury your face in someones ass crack and inhale?
i'll be your retard, your wonderfully surprising defiant little retard. now i know it is illegal and all and i won't fit in but here, have a pipe bomb, chocked full of nails, gonna make my voice heard...see?
survival desire etc...meant fuck all did it.
Camden Ross
also this. If you whine about something, you deserve no respect
Lincoln Walker
I'm a mutualist, you bright, bright little boy. you. That puts me *right* of centre. But then, I suspect that political science is just one of many things of which you have neither knowledge nor interest.
>I've been peppersprayed, pepperballed, peppergassed, teargassed, watercannoned, soundcannoned, bitten by dogs, trampled by horses, beaten with truncheons, arrested, sued, imprisoned, maligned by the media who have called me everything from deranged to an extortionist not enough yet, it would seem and that's because the only good commie is a dead commie
Utterly no insight or self-awareness. At least two-thirds of the comments in this thread come from blind, ignorant, self-absorbed narcissists who are doing EXACTLY what I described in the OP and attempting to "score points" rather than engage in any kind of discussion, completely ignoring anything which challenges their world-view, blithely indifferent to the fact that they're proving the very point they're ostensibly arguing against.
It's depressing as fuck.
Alexander Russell
Why don't you go live among that tribe, then?
Why is it that anarchists are, throughout history, completely BTFO by communists and fascists?
Gabriel Peterson
>discussion You ignored all the comments pertaining to your whining blog post. You clearly are having trouble accepting your gayness. Quit being in denial.
Fuck off old man it's time to go back to the home... senile fuck
Jaxson Perry
In all fairness you have set up an unfalsifiable viewpoint. Either they agree with you, or they disagree and 'prove your point'.
Look at Sharif's study on the autokinetic effect, Asch's paradigm, or Milgram's obedience. All studies performed long before the advent of the internet and yet show powerful effects of social conformity. If anything research has shown decreasing levels of conformity in society since these experiments so your anecdotal evidence of everyone wanting to ignore you doesn't represent any societal trends.
Charles Perez
Why is it that authoritarian jerkwads are completely ignorant of history, sociology, and psychology, even while they're pontificating broad, sweeping generalizations about politics they're too stupid to understand?
Pro tip: Every time anarchists have organized as a military force, they've won on the battlefield, from the Makhnovshchina to the Durruti Column. It's always been through betrayal in the halls of power and the assassin's bullet that they've been brought down.
>I got in fight with riot cops and broke many windows, I help fighting the system by giving a bad name to radical opposition.
Justin Nelson
>society started from a lack of leadership Every single animal that forms social units has a leading member, whether this leading member is the alpha female in an elephant herd, or the strongest male within apes. It is true that society was more egalitarian before specialization, but we need to recognize that that was in part due to the fact that these tribes were smaller and it's members were more closely related. Here's a thought experiment: your sister and some other girl are about to be hit by a truck. You would go save your sister, instead of the other girl, right? If you said yes, then this demostrates my point: because you are more closely related to sibling, from evolutionary perspective, it's better that you help the sibling rather than a stranger. Altruistic behavior is more easily expressed if the ingroup is closely related. Here's an another example of that: you love your family more than you love your ethnicity, right? And you also care more about ethnicity than you do about your race, right?
So, how did this anarchical, voluntary state of our societies came to an end? Simply put, it was out-competed by societies that had hierarchy, leadership and were more ethnocentric. Here's a study on how ethnocentric is dominant from the evolutionary perspective: jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html
Tyler Lewis
Haem. Franco won the civil war and the Maknovcha got assraped.
Gabriel Roberts
>utterly no insight or self-awareness I find that oldfags are like this, except they project all their stupidity out onto the world, so they see and judge it in others, yet they can't see it in themselves, as they lack any introspection whatsoever. Fascinating.
We've evolved a lot in the last couple thousand years, who cares what people were doing 200k years ago? Not that they were anarchist anyway, they still had hierarchies and held territory. I'm not the same as whoever the Yanomani people are, I don't want to be. I don't have any desire to live like them, they aren't living very good lives from what I can tell from what I just read on wikipedia, they might be doing better for themselves if they had leaders, maybe they wouldn't still be living in huts.
Does this sound very mutual? >Burning with a branding stick occurs often, and symbolizes a male’s strength or dominance over his wife >Up to half of all of Yanomami males die violent deaths in the constant conflict between neighboring communities over local resources
Jose White
I believe this affirmation require a validation.
We are social animals and all social animals have hierarchies.
Brody Wright
You sound like you're a newfag, but you just miss the cutoff to be a boomer, so I won't post scat.
Christopher Parker
The anarchists in Paris, Ukraine, and Catalonia were all crushed militarily. An anarchist state has a strong potential for life satisfaction but you must admit they're terrible at organising resources efficiently.
Landon Johnson
Unfalsifiability is also a characteristic of being right from the purely logical, rationalist perspective. All true statements are tautological, though of course that doesn't mean all tautologies are true. And as many psych experiments demonstrate conformity, you'll also find many more experiments among the higher primates which show compassion, social justice, and empathy are the norm; monkeys and apes, for example, will "go on strike" and refuse to perform tasks for food rewards if they observe that some are receiving better rewards than others for the same tasks.
Robert Robinson
Because leftists are using identity politics to the point where any opinion that counters them or challenges them is inherently evil. You can see this across the western world broadly, especially in universities, media, and some governments. It's all rooted in core assumptions about the opposition, and anything that doesn't seem to line up exactly is just someone pulling a fast one.
Oh no, someone doesn't agree with your opinion. They must clearly be without insight. Look, I'm not saying you're a nigger, but you're probably a nigger.
Joseph Cox
Should probably off yourself then, end your sad existence Boomer faggot.
Adam Cruz
The commune of Paris was not anarchist. Don't listen to the lies of the far left. It was an insurrection made against the occupant and the government had to kill them all to not have an even more violent occupation.
James Rivera
Because people realized that the only that matters at the end of the day is violence and "tolerant speech" does not exist because inevitably one will be drawn to action for their ideas and if they aren't then why bother having ideas in the first place
Isaiah Martinez
When people started getting taught that they're special individuals and that their individual feels and problems were the most important thingin the world.
Asher King
Shouldn't you be on facebook?
Elijah Harris
The only problem with your thesis is that you refuse to accept when you are the one being illogical and irrational. Then you whine about the tiniest little sacrifice. Fuck off.
You are part of the system, helping the elites with fake divisive struggles that destroy national identity and strengthen superficial desires in people. Being a professional leftie is nothing to be proud of.
Nolan Hill
A lot of people fought and died so Americans could lead comfortable, and free lives. If we want to be blissfully ignorant, I believe we as a society have earned it. We were at the forefronts against Russia during the Cold War, and I daresay we saw the same amount of dangers as the Warsaw Pact states saw during and after the conflict. It is natural to misunderstand where Americans are coming from, as very few people can boast the same safety and security that we can. If you could get away with saying anything you wanted without fear of reprisal, wouldn't you? If you actually had a homeland to be proud of, wouldn't you hold just as much pride as we do? Again, try to understand that the US is like the Daddy for the whole world. We can't stand by for people talking out of their backside, sometimes we need to handle things ourselves. I hope this helped.
Michael Howard
I'm 49.
how did you come to Jow Forums?
In my case, i washed up on /b/ after a decade or more trolling web 1.0 via 56k dial up, and the user. factor of the chan seems like the last bastion of the days when anonymous was the default setting for the whole web.
Zachary Rogers
OP, all you do here is to call others ignorants and stupid and to say you have a flawless logic and are admirable, without obviously explaining your logic.
Maybe you are new to the internet, but even you should understand how childish it sound.
Primates also show a complete inability at long term cooperative behviours. Chimpanzees are easily trained to work in groups for a common goal but will fight over the presented rewards and resort back to a hierarchical structure. Humans are uniquely altruistic in this sense, as there is an innate drive for social justice in babies as young as 3 months. However, crucially this altruism only extends to the percieved in-group. Differences as arbritrary as someone showing a different food preference than yourself have shown a desire to punish the out-group and view this as moral.
In-groups and out-groups are inate aspects of our psychology and as such an anarchist society which extends beyond kinship groups (a human typically has a limit of 400 people they can maintain as family/friends) they system collapses.
Anarcho-primitivism is the most realisitc form of anarchy because the system does not work in settlements levels above a village, ruling out the possibility for urbanisation or specialisiation.
Luis Rivera
And you still have to address the milgram experiment. The participants of this experiment thought that they were electrocuting actual people, yet they still did it, because the supposed scientist (the person that in this case was perceived as the superior) told them to continue on.
Elijah Walker
I don't think you understand that there's a difference between leadership and rulership. I am not a Bakuninist; Bakunin argued that all communities must be agrarian, because anyone who is allowed to practice a skill no one else has can hold the community to ransom. I am a mutualist, and one of the central tenets of mutualism is a community-run, non-profit bank to track labour credit and to provide low-interest loans for small entrepreneurial start-ups so that everyone has access to the capital necessary to compete.
And the reason authoritarianism sprang up was a direct result of the switch from hunter-gatherer to agrarian society. Once you create "property," you need a warrior caste to protect it, and so you begin an escalating contest to see who can organize violence most efficiently. But of course, this relies on scarcity. This is why the capitalists have been forced to keep creating artificial scarcity to maintain their authoritarian stranglehold on power.
The Singularity will free us all eventually, and the power of the patriarchy will evaporate almost instantly.
Adrian Parker
also this
Cooper Sullivan
Shit, an originalfag. I tough I was old but everyone here is 40+
Connor Turner
Low IQ people just like to form tribal identities around their shitty political ideologies. It's the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.
>Implying the singularity won't cause an even deeper class divide as the upper-class become genetically altered Demigods.
Jackson Bell
Franco got his ass kicked by untrained miners and railroad workers armed mostly with shotguns and hunting rifles -- repeatedly -- despite receiving air support from Hitler and naval support from Mussolini. The only reason Durruti's Column was defeated was because the pro-fascist forces in the West cut off workers trying to get to Spain to reinforce them, and because the Stalinists assassinated Durruti.
As for the Makhnovshchina, despite the fact they had only 50,000 men at their largest and had only what equipment they could capture from the enemy, they drove 600,000 trained German soldiers out of Ukraine, then crushed the Czarists as they marched on Moscow -- only to be betrayed by Trotsky and be ordered to disarm and surrender to the Reds.
Even after the Soviets invaded with *millions* of soldiers, it still took them four years to drive out the Makhnovshchina, and they were never able to capture or kill Makhno himself, who fled to France in the hope of raising another army. Stalin murdered TEN MILLION Ukrainians out of terror that Makhno might return and kick his ass.
Jason Martinez
>When did people stop wanting to hear divergent views?
Social media ruined our brains and how we relate to differing opinions.
Jeremiah Sanchez
LARP harder faggot
Jack Myers
funny fact about that experiment, subjects chose to either shock or not shock victims...even with their leader/alpha etc telling them to, they could choose not to. the weak of course would follow even if such crossed their own personal internal ethical lines.
Ryan Moore
The answer lies here in this lads reply, you can't converse with idiots.
