What does Jow Forums think about renewable energy?

Climate change is unironically real. You don't have to stop being a conservative to acknowledge this. Also, has a point, coal and oil are finite resources. We may not run out of them soon, but sooner or later we will run out.

But environmentalists go full retard about renewable energy way too much. We still don't have a good way to store it and use it when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow. Hell, wind energy in general is pretty retarded. The best forms of renewable energy are solar energy and geothermal energy. Geothermal is great because it's always on, and you can use it as baseload power. Solar is something we'll never run out of, it's essentially infinite. But, again, with solar you have to figure out how to store it. Batteries won't cut it. We'll probably have to perfect artificial photosynthesis for solar to truly be viable as an energy source.

Also, in order to combat climate change, nuclear power has to be part of the mix. Any environmentalist that doesn't consider nuclear power as part of the mix of carbon-free energy isn't actually serious about stopping climate change. You can tell the serious environmentalists from the SJW memers by how they feel about nuclear power--James Hansen, for example, is all in favor of nukes. We can use fission now and fusion once it's ready.

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too many chinamen in that racket, desu

>the coal and gas we'll eventually run out of?
Not for a loooong while.
Even after we run out of oil, there will be methane for a long time. And new sources of frozen methane are still being found.
It's arguably a problem that there's so much of it. Certain renewables might be better for the environment but it's very hard to compete with the cheap energy of hydrocarbons. Any nation that doesn't take advantage of it is at a huge industrial disadvantage.
Globalization is an end in itself for those who promote renewables. It's not an unfortunate side-effect, it's what they want happening. And the end result is that pollution is just being offshored. They don't care.

>not having to pay the coal jew
it's good as long as it's mine, it's not good if i have to buy it from the grid. that's just exchanging one jew for another.
there are other means of alternative energy. wind turbines will provide you with free poultry.

Best for the economy. Then the US wouldn't have to rely on the (((Middle East))) for oil

What makes something "renewable?" You mean like you can demolish the old energy plant and build a new one?

try solar steam. arguably more efficient than photovoltaics and much easier to engineer in your backyard

Not worth the investment until battery technology catches up

i run my entire house in south florida on 10KW of PV and a solar steam rigged air compressor

>Fukushima

will be useful to scavenge some after a plague wipes out humanity. right now? not so much.

>What does Jow Forums think about renewable energy?

It's misguided. Solar energy, for instance, is a noble idea - but we don't yet have the technology to efficiently harness it. Wind power is a total joke - it takes more energy to build one of those big ass windmills than the POS will ever produce.

What we NEED is a focus on hydrogen energy. 70% of the entire fucking UNIVERSE is composed of hydrogen. It is orders of magnitude more efficient than fossil fuels and it burns clean.

t. dirty oil profiteer republican

And we never will have that technology as long as the Jews are hiding it.

Both of those incidents were entirely preventable and were caused by gross negligence.

It's a bad idea, because a developed country cannot have its power grid collapse every time it is cloudy.

There is no such thing

Solar panels and batteries use rare earth minerals. The chemicals involved in mining these are only partially contained.

Con #2: Oil is Not a Fossil Fuel – It is ‘Renewable’
anticorruptionsociety.com/anatomy-of-a-con-job/con-2-oil-is-not-a-fossil-fuel-it-is-renewable/

I love oil, it's a gift from gaia....
And it's renewable.......

solar panels use silicon, batteries use lead and sulfur

Depends what you make them out of. They can also use lithium and ions.

Take your solar panels and then shove them up your Liberal ass!

best thing for lithium is to use in carbonate. your solar panels make hydrogen gas, that gets reacted with captured CO2 from your lithium canister, and you bottle the resulting methane for later use. best method of fuel storage, since methane doesn't go bad like gas and diesel and you can either it in a combustion engine or a fuel cell.

If anyone is sane about it and supports it:
>FUCKING HIPPIES REEEE!!!
If the plutocrat Elon Musk is shilling HIS Solar shit:
>This is good for the nation, Elon Musk is a hero and /ourfaggot/ blah blah blah
Nu/shit/ is so predictable the board doesn't even need to exist anymore. A simple program could automate the whole shitshow.

There's a finite supply of ions, however, and the sun is going into one of those minima where it sends out less of them.

This is the real future. We could power our entire country with these easily, and we don't need Chinese minerals to do it.

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Hydrogen is locked in water. Vast amounts of electricity are needed to uncouple the Oxygen and Hydrogen.

Its a fucking scam

Read all the threads on how math edumacation has ruined critical thinking.

The problem is energy density. You want concentrated energy! So every time some redditor screeches about how much sunlight falls on to the earth ask them how much is falling at where they stand.

Sunlight at the surface is at the most 1kw/m2
Thats the brightest day of the year in the middle of the equator.

Stand under a street light, the biggest common ones are 600w sodium. Imagine one almost double that every square meter.

Now take the efficiency of the solar cell. A single junction solar cell is at the most about 30% efficient.

All those records you hear are with multi junction solar cells using expensive materials. A hetro junction solar cell has max theoretical efficiency of about 70%

Your typical solar cell is a polycrystaline unit with an efficiency of about 17%, add in the losses of the inverter and lets say 15% for ease of math.

Now look outside, you think you are getting your 1kw right now? Probably half that. So if your solar cell is staring right at the sun (which will only happen once a day for a fixed mounting) you will get

500w x 15%= 75 watts or roughly half your laptop charger for every meter of solar panel.

How much did those panels cost you? Keep in mind they are heavily subsidized, especially at the manufacturing level.

The biggest drop in price a few years back came not from any huge developments in solar but because the makers of silicon managed to massively increase production and drop costs.

Its a hugely energy intensive process and uses a lot of DI water too.

TL;DR is its a fucking scam

>Climate change is unironically real.
It's been real since the earth was formed you faggot.

You're walking through hydrogen every day you fucking brainlet.

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How is pure hydrogen produced and how is it stored?

either heat the shit out of water and it thermolytically decomposes or break it with electrolysis.
you could also do acid base reactions like in batteries

Very inefficiently.

wind turbines break down faster than an American car. drive over to Palm Springs, CA and you'll see that half the turbines don't turn

a jewish trick
don't fall for it Jow Forums
oil is great for your health and the planet
keep buying it

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shitty bearing designs. they're basically a generator with a small simple turbine instead of one of the giant complex turbines used in power plants. if they're failing, it's because of shoddy engineering.

>We're not speeding up global warming, quit trying to make me feel responsible so I can live selfishly with my cheap coal energy and wasteful energy habits!

I wish airborne wind turbines would have become a thing, I was enthusiastic about those for a while. The wind is so much stronger and more constant higher off the ground.

I looked into solar for the house. I ran the numbers as far as how much generated vs cost/kWh over the lifetime, even factoring in average cost increases. Was not worth it.

I am all for renewable energy, as long as it is cost effective.

Its not necessarily because they are broken.
The one good thing about a subsidy propeller is that you can flutter the blades and stop is easily. You can't do that with any other power plant. So on a day the grid demand is low, you have to pay to stay on the grid. The wind power can just jump off the grid without startup costs.
But yea, they are maintenance hoggs.

Its made from coal or as a side product of petrochemical refining. No one makes it out of water for commercial use.

>renewable
The panels don't pop into existence.

your numbers are based off someone else installing it, that means labor and product markup.

Depends on your bill. When Obama had the $5K tax deduction, I could have fit out my house for $15k. Our bill is roughly $700/mo., so it would have only been a few years till it was profitable.

It really isn't. I looked into it myself. Upwards of $30k to take my house completely offgrid, wouldn't pay off for 15 years and the equipment wouldn't even last for 10. Hence why I said

How the fuck do you people solve any of your problems when everything is instantly pinned on a boogeyman?

They are shills, they aren't meant to solve problems

It's basic engineering. You have to go to the root cause, not just treat the symptoms.

>contained during manufacture
He actually believes this

The country that leads in this area will be powerful. US is going to be that one. We're a bit late to the party, but once we show up things will get interesting. The thing is, in the future it wont be called renewable because thats not how it works - these things dont renew themselves and the devices to harvest the energy arent free in the slightest. We'll probably just start calling them what they are, like solar, wind, etc. Can you imagine a country with the infrastructure, manufacturing, institutions, etc. to walk around the world and bully nations into opening up permits to install facilities so that the energy can be harvested that they otherwise couldn't do themselves?
>hey uhhh nice land you got there, we need to make this here super turbine potential gravity combuster 9000
>we know your country is struggling to pay the bills on the ever decreasing supply of fossil fuels and water supplies, let us help you with that problem *wink*
It'll be like a economic shakedown.

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They should really fire the guy that decided to put an earthquake generator in the Pacific.

How do you get hydrogen efficiently?

if anything, they're meant to perpetuate problems by bogging everyone down in arguments and wasting their time. the aryan man's greatest weakness is his pride, and losing an argument that is a no-brainer hurts our pride. jews exploit this to their advantage. they even lampoon it in movies when the hero survives by arguing with the villain to buy himself enough time to get out of the certain death.

Will literally be taxed by the government if you have sustainable energy to live on your own, IF not thrown in jail. Refer to Nikolai Tesla.

Most commercially produced hydrogen is either from cracking oil or steam reformation.
the latter is where you heat coal to 800c or so and spray steam on it. This makes co, co2 and h2.

Storing hydrogen is a bitch though.

you are not male lmao

Has completely ruined the province of Ontario

(((Green energy))) subsidies are the only way some projects got competed, which drove up the energy cost to insane levels

It's not the only factor to fuck up energy prices but it's A major one

i'd assumed he was asking how he would make it for his own personal use.

shut up and go eat your burger, mutt. you're just trying to derail the conversation with your nigger bullshit.

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i know different renewables for different regions, but those liquid sodium plants are so much more aesthetic and efficient than pv. they also incinerate birds and small aircraft, which is pretty metal. wish we had more of those reflective liquid sodium installations instead of solar arrays

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its because this isnt a "live off the grid" thread. there are several dozen posters in any one of those threads that has multiple solar arrays and are damned proud of them, for good reason.

This is assuming china doesn't one-up us by:
1.) Stealing the tech.
2.) Offering these poor nations the cheaper deal by cutting corners in the ways only China can.
Seriously, I can see the U.S. hyping up the tech years ahead of time in order to get other nations interested, only for China to beat us to the punch with a knock-off tech bolstered through bullshit propaganda. And with commies being commies, it won't matter that the tech fails after a couple years; their foot will already be in the door, they will cover everything up with bribes and more propaganda until they can produce the real technology.

No, they should fire the guy who decided to skimp on the protections put in place for the tsunami waves that flooded the backup cooling generators.

Unless you have a source of raw hydrogen that doesn't require hydrolysis, it will not replace other raw energy sources. It's a great idea for portable energy storage though, hydrogen generators would work so much better than the batteries we have now.

>china
Maybe in the first decade or two of the 21st century. But things are going to change, they cant keep up what theyre doing even if we let them - which we arent.

It's mandatory in California now.

Says the literal coal burning leaf

Conventional solar isn't a long-term option, the cost-to-efficiency rating is absolute shit and it's pretty much reached saturation. There's hope in the form of organophotovoltaics (OPVs), which are orders of magnitude cheaper to produce, but still have a long long ways to go before they're anywhere near as efficient as conventional PVs. Wind is okay, but again is expensive, and really only cost effective for certain areas. Hydroelectric has been pretty thoroughly saturated so that's not really an option. That basically leaves nuclear power.

Unfortunately the hippy left has done such a good job creating public fear and paranoia of the nuclear bogeyman that we can't even approval to use a centralized waste storage facility that's been sitting around nearly finished for almost a decade.

Solar and wind can be good supplements, especially if OPVs get to a point where they're efficient enough to start employing as consumer-grade solar power generation, but the only viable long term replacement for fossil fuels is nuclear fission.

Hows putins oil and gas treating you there based marxist prussian?

>mandatory
this is why we don't live in commiefornia

What about geothermal? It's attractive to me because it's always on.

>But things are going to change
Yeah, I wouldn't be so cocky yet.

pretty renewable since the planet is basically a big homopolar motor, have at it.

Ultimately renewables are the way to go. We should be pumping money into fusion but of course (((they))) won't let us. Meanwhile using energy of the biggest natural fusion reactor in our solar system - the Sun is the smart thing to do. Tidal is fine, wind will be a shitstorm in twenty years when all the turbines have to be refurbished.

China is already out of the spotlight, a total whiff. The one thing you hear about now is box office figures lul

What's the status of tidal power plants these days? There was a lot of noise about them a few years ago, but not so much these days.

Compared to other types of renewables most are not as economically viable.

You can get LED street lights that are 24W. Human tech is still quite primitive, a lot of our energy goes to produce waste heat that isn't used at all.

There is plenty of room for improvement in energy efficiency, which makes renewables more attractive.

Also there are huge areas of the planet, such as deserts and roof tops that can be filled with solar panels and even at 15% efficiency these will produce more than enough electricity. What we have to eventually control is growth in energy demand.

No energy source can make up for an infinite increase in demand on a long enough timeline.

Hydrogen is so light that it escapes to space when released into the atmosphere. The only way to make hydrogen is to get it from some compound, water otherwise, by adding in energy. That means it’s only good as a way of storing energy, not as an energy source itself

So we should just pave over huge desserts right?
No ecosystem there and what about power distribution?

As to the roof tops, next time you drive around look and see if there are any panels on the roofs? Are they all pointed in the right direction and free from any obstructions?

I used to work in this field. It makes fracking look sparkly clean, and oil is a pretty dirty business

We have the most stable power grid in the EU and some of the highest percentages of renewables. Plenty of ways to make it work with storage and smart management.

Whats your $/kwh rate?
Why you still need pipelines then?

Wind power is easy to build and mostly done by fairly local companies. Solar panels are already like 60% made in China, and 97% of rare earths are also made in China. Google and other US tech companies are getting into solar, but no indication that they will be achieving any monopolies

Anything to take the energy monopoly from semites is good.

Fuck their oil and fuck their people

Extremely inefficient and you need very specific conditions to be satisfied in order to utilize it.

About 30ct/kWh, mostly due to taxes. Our electricity is ca 35% renewable, but overall only 13% of energy is renewable as the rates for fuel and heating are much lower. We need pipelines for oil and gas obviously as those are still major energy sources. Should be majority renewable by 2050, but even then there will be some oil and gas used still

Great for heating homes in mild climates, but large scale for power production very dependant on geography, so won’t work everywhere. Like Biomass a good addition to the energy mix where possible, but won’t solve our problems on its own

30 us cents? Like $0.30 per kw/h?

Thats insane, its like 0.07 here, a little less if you buy industrial amounts.

I doubt your NG for heating is any cheaper then here.

There is no such thing as "renewable energy". Solar and wind both "use up" materials just like coal, oil, gas and Nuclear, it just that those actually produce meaningful and useful energy, solar and wind don't.

Solar is pretty neat.

Good for private household use, useless for statal use. You cannot run a foundry on solar.
Renewables+nuclear is the most achievable scenario. That still leaves petrol/diesel for transportation, but it reduces our dependence on the sandnigger overlords' oil

Wind is very cheap in many areas, new plants are build that can run at 5ct/kWh without subsidies and be profitable. That’s cheaper than gas, oil and nuclear already. You’re right that it does depend on geography though.

Solar can be made cheaper by new manufacturing processes, or by technologies such as thin films, quantum dots (still research phase), the OPVs you mentioned and many others. Solarthermal is also potentially making a comeback as there are breakthroughs to decrese costs, though it is also limited by geography since needing direct incidence of sunlight.

Nuclear fission and fusion can be good, especially if we build facilities to further process used up fuel rods and radioactive material. They can be used to make new fuel rods and only leave slightly radioactive material behind. Problem ist costs, and nuclear is already expensive. By the time fusion is ready it will already be double the price of renewables, at a much higher initial investment cost and complexity, so probably won’t really take off

It's feasible, but only if you put it in an optimal area. Like in desert areas. Or the Middle East, after it gets glassed.