The EU is a good thing

I'm too tired to get in a full debate and naturally I'm not very interested in the EU but most disagreements are
>The EU was originally intended to be nothing but a trade union
>Small states have to accept policies that harm their citizens or else they will be expelled/fined absolutely fucking their country either way
>A poor country using the same currency as a rich country is not good for either
>Countries that sign up for trade are burdened with refugee quotas (and more refugees are a bad thing)
Just off the top of my head. I'll have a little argument if you want.

Ops sorry sweetie, you' already triggered the process
Remember to pay up :^]

yep

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>a corrupt jewish controlled organization in which the people get no say is deciding that its member countries must be flooded with openly hostile foreigners in order to “survive”
>and that’s a good thing!

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>everything is either black or white

Gott strafe england!

lmao pussy 3 post by this id

k fag op isn't replying I guess I did prove u wrong bye

the problem is the older generations still class the germans as our enemies. and now the younger generation are learning to despise the germans through vidya games.

The EU project may work in time but not yet

Juncker is the head of the EU, not Merkel

>enough said, the EU is the worst thing since communism
Communism killed hundreds of millions of people, and the EU hasn't killed any. So how do you figure that?

I admit that the EU should be tougher on people trying to get in from Africa, but like you say, the EU is a good thing at the end of the day

The EU allows Europe to be a superpower, allowing us to compete with the likes of the US and China

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please respond

>The EU was originally intended to be nothing but a trade union
Originally it was a coal and steel community

>Small states have to accept policies that harm their citizens or else they will be expelled/fined absolutely fucking their country either way
Each country gets representation according to their population size. Also most of the "small" countries you refer to were desperate to sign up, which is how the EU let in so many of them (mostly former Eastern Bloc countries) in 2004 (and later)

>A poor country using the same currency as a rich country is not good for either
It's good for facilitating trade

>Countries that sign up for trade are burdened with refugee quotas (and more refugees are a bad thing)
I will admit that the EU needs tighter border control, but that doesn't mean dismantling the EU altogether

I doubt we'll even leave, and if we do we'll probably rejoin at some point

>being anti-semitic

Not an argument

No I think the younger generation see Germany as our allies

>Each country gets representation according to their population size
Yes, but this still means that countries will have to adopt policies that were not decided on by their people.
>It's good for facilitating trade
It's awful for this. If Greece had been able to print a shit ton of Greek currency and lower their dollar than their goods would be cheaper on the international market and they would attract more foreign investors. Look at them now. In a shitton of debt that will never be paid, setting back both Greece and Germany.
>Doesn't mean dismantling the EU altogether
What changes could be made to the EU that would solve this problem? The pro-immigration Germans and French hold most of the power and will enforce quotas for any country in the EU. How do you fix this?

>Yes, but this still means that countries will have to adopt policies that were not decided on by their people.
But that's the same as the fact that you have laws decided in Australia by people who aren't from your state.

>It's awful for this. If Greece had been able to print a shit ton of Greek currency and lower their dollar than their goods would be cheaper on the international market and they would attract more foreign investors. Look at them now. In a shitton of debt that will never be paid, setting back both Greece and Germany.
I don't know enough about economics to know whether what you're saying is a good idea or not.

>What changes could be made to the EU that would solve this problem? The pro-immigration Germans and French hold most of the power and will enforce quotas for any country in the EU. How do you fix this?
Well most of the countries are voting for anti-migrant parties; France for the Front National, Germany for AfD, Italy for M5S and Lega Nord, etc. Eventually the EU, surely, will have to implement some sort of restrictions. The next EU elections are next year and I reckon anti-migrant parties will do very well, unless the EU changes tack very soon.

>Communism killed hundreds of millions of people

It did not - there have always been famines in Russia and Asia generally, the 30s were littered with famines globally and the Chinese famines of the 50s and 60s were principally a problem of authoritarian leaderships.

But communism destroyed individual freedoms and hindered entrepreneurs to create new things. This is the true reason why communism was so evil - it destroyed humanity at its core, it stopped people from living lives as they saw fit. The EU does exactly the same thing.

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>But that's the same as the fact that you have laws decided in Australia by people who aren't from your state.
It's silly to say that the culture and interests of the Australian states are as close to each other as the nations in the European Union. Additionally, the states formed a country knowing there would be a central government that makes decisions over the states. Originally the EU was a coal and steel union.
>I don't know enough about economics to know whether what you're saying is a good idea or not.
It's silly to debate the European union without being knowledgeable about the drawbacks of the Euro, the foundation of the Union.
>Well most of the countries are voting for anti-migrant parties; France for the Front National, Germany for AfD, Italy for M5S and Lega Nord, etc. Eventually the EU, surely, will have to implement some sort of restrictions. The next EU elections are next year and I reckon anti-migrant parties will do very well, unless the EU changes tack very soon.
Merkel's party is still far more popular, and the same is true in most of these cases. Unfortunately for you, the pre-existing migrants will already outbreed you, and vote for more migrants. It is already too late unless you are willing to remove migrants from your countries.

>The EU is a good thing.
Yes, if you replaced any current EU politician by a white nationalist you would have a really good institution.

>what is assesed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

No, its not. Sage and slide this shill thread.

>The EU is a good thing.
>Prove me wrong.
>Protip: you can't.

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there are no arguments for why its good, thus its not

Yeah killing all the veteran farmers and putting people that had never farmed definitely didn’t cause famine in Russia, famines just happen man.

Forcing every farmer to also forge steel for the military totally didn’t cause famine in China, famines just happen man.

>principally a problem of authoritarian leaderships
So communism then.

Also you're remembering the famines, but you're forgetting the work camps.

>It's silly to say that the culture and interests of the Australian states are as close to each other as the nations in the European Union.
The interests of European countries are pretty much aligned in today's world. Yes we have unique cultures but there's no reason why they need to dissolve - in fact the EU *protects* the unique culture of every country, e.g. by protecting regional foods (Melton Mowbray pork pies are protected by the EU, meaning someone can only sell them if they are actually located in Melton Mowbray. I think champagne is protected too - it has to be from the Champagne region of France).

>the states formed a country knowing there would be a central government that makes decisions over the states
And the countries of the EU signed up to an EU parliament, knowing that it would make decisions that affect all of them.

>It's silly to debate the European union without being knowledgeable about the drawbacks of the Euro, the foundation of the Union.
Well like I say I'm not an expert on economics, can't really say much more than that.

>Merkel's party is still far more popular, and the same is true in most of these cases.
Yes but the anti-immigration parties are increasingly doing better, and I think that will continue until action is taken on the issue.

>Unfortunately for you, the pre-existing migrants will already outbreed you, and vote for more migrants. It is already too late unless you are willing to remove migrants from your countries.
Surely that's exactly the same in Australia. Anyway, I went through a phase of having Jow Forums opinions on migration (i.e. fuck foreigners) but now I don't care. I'm just going to focus on my own life.

>I don't know enough about economics
Standard refrain from pro EU types - 'I don't understand economics I just want easy holidays'

Name a single thing it changed in your life other than

>hurr muh no need for a visa for a travel

when you've never travelled in your life

It's completely undemocratic and currently exists primarily to line up a nice cheap supply chain for the Germans through Eastern Europe?
It deposed two democratically elected governments because they didn't want to bow down and accept a 30% GDP loss and a Great Depression caused by austerity, the Greek parliament is currently banned from doing anything the Troika doesn't allow them to. The British Empire was easier on their colonies than that.

They run the bailout money through the periphery and straight back into the banks, helping those countries not at all but allowing the powers that be to scapegoat the governments of the various states for "high national debt" despite it not being that high, being only this high because of all the bank bailouts and private debt being a much bigger problem.

EU economics was entirely built around the idea that there would never be any problems ever regardless of events because markets are always self-equibrilating and perfect, and confidence has no effect. Spoilers, they aren't, not even close. It's like removing all the shock absorbers from your car because it's a better ride on a hypothetical featureless plane when you normally drive it on countryside dirt tracks.

Personally I think we should stay, if only because we have enough political muscle to ignore anything we don't like, we have opt-outs on most of the horrible stuff anyway and it's probably going to fall over soon anyway so we'll save £70 billion. If we do bother to pay up and leave, wow, a 2% tariff on average, it won't ruin us.

lol another butthurt commie

Unelected Head of State (Just like the Queen)
Free movement of people is terrible
Ruined our fishing industry

but most importantly we dont want any more fucking kebabs thx

Italy will be leaving soon lmao

>I doubt we'll even leave

go back to your gender studies class please

I fucking wish it was the 4th reich, desu it's like the anti-reich that does everything it can to destroy its people

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You are from reddit you dirtball faggot.

This. Current leaders are just corrupted people seeking their own wealth and power with no allegiances towards their homelands or respect for European people.

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yeah for germany and the netherlands its perfect

economic differences between countries , open borders between countries allow people from poor countries to migrate to rich ones making poor countries even more poor
also allowing people to take from EU money leads to corruption which is common here , so it makes a country even more poor .
also it was created by a mason.
also it is controlled by jews

It's not about holidays, it's about our place in the world. The EU can compete with the likes of the US and China, because that's how big and powerful it is. The UK by ourselves are a small country. I don't want our country to just be America's bitch.

I have travelled Pierre. I've been to France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Italy, Greece.

And the EU has changed a lot. I've worked with a lot of people from the EU because it's easy for them to live and work over here - and of course that means I have the right to live and work in other countries too. But probably the main benefit is the ease of trade between our countries. We wouldn't be living in such prosperity without the EU.

>Unelected Head of State
The President of the EU Commission has exactly the same legitimacy as our own Prime Minister.

Neither are directly elected. Both assume their position based on being the leader of the largest party in parliament (Jean-Claude Juncker is the leader of the European People's Party, which has the most seats in the European Parliament).

also EU made our country so shit that people consider life in USSR better

It was, as an economic alliance. Attempting to become some sort o supernational sovereign entity was where it went wrong.

No you haven't, 99% of people in the EU have never travelled to another country for work.
Furthermore, people could work in other countries even before the EU existed just fine.
Ease of trade between our countries? Again it has never been an issue even when the EU didn't exist.

Living in prosperity? Kek.

You still haven't pointed out a reason, try again.

>Unelected Head of State (Just like the Queen)
The president of the EU commission is nominated by the EU council, which is made up of either the heads of state of member countries or officials appointed by their governments, both of which are representatives of the member countries' people. The president of the EU commission is then voted in by the EU parliament, which is also a representation of the people of the member states and is directly responsible to them.
Not understanding how it works does not make it undemocratic.
The fishing quotas would be a thing anyways as they were made due to environmental factors, not political ones. You will be more annoyed when you have no fish to fish at all than less fish to fish with a stable population.

>Surely that's exactly the same in Australia
no

you eat shit for breakfast, lunch and dinner

prove me wrong

protip: you can't

As long as it provides short term material benefits then that's all that matters to low IQ normies.

>The president of the EU commission is nominated by the EU council, which is made up of either the heads of state of member countries

This doesnt count for shit cause the people are not voting for and the cunts that actually vote for them are beneath the EU communists in terms of power so it doesnt mean shit if the people elect them they will vote for whatever the Eu traitors tell them and you know this you bastard.

How about:
1) it denies the basic right to self-determination of its member states
2) it is aggressively anti-libertarian and anti-democratic
3) it is based on pseudoscientific neo-liberal economic theories that have been repeatedly falsified both in theory and in practice
4) it has destroyed the economies of each one of its member states except Germany
5) it makes massive use of propaganda to defend his fake values and instigate a medieval sense of guilt into its citizens

The Parliament is pretty much powerless, though. It can't even initiate legislation, at this point it looks vaguely like the Kaiser's Reichstag. "A fig leaf to cover the nakedness of absolutism". For fucks sake, they tried to allow corporations to sue states for passing any kind of law that might possibly hurt their profits. Wolfgang Schauble apparently once told the meeting of finance ministers "elections must not be allowed to influence economic and social policy".

>This doesnt count for shit cause the people are not voting for
Only if you consider your own government as illegitimate, which really ends up being a "you" issue and not an issue on how the EU is set up. The people that decide what route the EU should take are direct representatives of your government, which has gained legitimacy via a vote of confidence.
>and the cunts that actually vote for them are beneath the EU communists in terms of power
The EU parliament votes on legislation, just like any other parliament.

>The EU can compete with the likes of the US and China, because that's how big and powerful it is. The UK by ourselves are a small country. I don't want our country to just be America's bitch.
Firstly, no the EU can't compete with those states, it's too divided and confused, secondly that's not us - we don't have any say in the EU because we actually have a functioning democracy - Germany can get what it wants from the EU because it NEVER changes it's own government or policies so can play the long game, but at the expense of Mutti Merkle forever.
I'd rather be free to choose to be less relevant than be slaved to the German factory state.

Nice b8 m8...nooob.

>It can't even initiate legislation
While that is true, it has the power to tell the commission to initiate legislation, however. Only about 20% of legislative initiative comes from the commission itself. The rest is made up of the ones asked by the parliament and by member states.

The EU has a lot of things it needs to improve but fundamentally misunderstanding how it actually works and then proclaiming that it is something it actually isn't, only works against any kind of reformist thought as it makes the people look like complete, drooling morons.

>>being anti-semitic
Not an argument

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>It's completely undemocratic
It's just as democratic as our national parliament. In both cases we vote for the members.

Firstly I'm not, but even if I was, that's not an argument.

>No you haven't
Yes I have

>99% of people in the EU have never travelled to another country for work
For work, no. I travelled for a holiday.

Yes it is, you've got tons of migrants, Xiao.

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>I have travelled Pierre. I've been to France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Italy, Greece.
k nigger go to eastern europe now

>The EU is a good thing.
Forced immigration of people that hate your guts aren't really a good thing, especially when we were never asked if we wanted it and just got told to suck it up.

go for work then lets see how it goes

Well, aside from the fact that the actual structure of the EU is actively hostile to democracy in the member states. Remember when Greece voted 2 to 1 against austerity and then the EU deposed their elected government and forced them to slash their budget more anyway?
And the time their constitution got rejected in two referenda and then they just reclassified it as "not a constitution" and passed it without another referendum?
And the fact that we can't see what the hell is going on in most of the executive meetings, so the various governments can write blatantly self-serving legislation, pass it and then go back home and say "nothing to do with us"?

The EU is liberal in the seventeenth-century sense, which wasn't even remotely democratic.
As I said before, I think we should stay, ignore any calls for political, monetary or fiscal integration, let it disintegrate the next time there's a shock and walk out without paying a penny.

I really really doubt that. Why were you so desperate to sign up in the first place? Oh yeah because you thought it would be better. If you guys really thought Russia was better then you'd leave NATO, wouldn't you?

It's just as democratic as a national parliament you stupid moron

Private members' bills are usually pretty minor in our own parliament though, so that's really not an argument to say that the parliament is powerless. It's not powerless. They can vote down any legislation they wish.

>we don't have any say in the EU because we actually have a functioning democracy
But we DO have a say in the EU, through the EU parliamentary elections.

Not an argument

Well I've been to Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary. Not been to the Baltics though.

Do you think mass immigration is unique to Europe? Because it isn't.

like all german contraptions, it's good on paper but hopelessly garbage in practice.

>But we DO have a say in the EU, through the EU parliamentary elections.
We really fucking don't you moron. We have as much of a say as the Lib Dems have over here, it's a irrelevant minority side show to let the idiots think they have a voice.
All the decisions are made by the non elected bureaucracy and then rubber stamped by the overwhelming France/Germany voting block.

>I really really doubt that. Why were you so desperate to sign up in the first place? Oh yeah because you thought it would be better. If you guys really thought Russia was better then you'd leave NATO, wouldn't you?
read thisbasically we thought that joining EU will be sunshine and rainbows , turns out that it will only be for those whom we elect , every party we vote has a history of corruption which are linked to EU money

Nice bait thread 10/10

>Well I've been to Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary. Not been to the Baltics though.
oh please come , go to balkans too , it is paradise thanks to EU

>buy a plastic bag
>pay 10cents "plastic is ebil" tax to the EU
>retarded unelected bureaucrats sit in their offices to think about more ways to extort money from people to pay their 7 digit salaries, travel allowance and dinner/lunch compensation while doing literally nothing

fuck the EU, everyone working for it and all that it stands for.

It may not be unique but my point is that we were not asked if we could take them in, we were just told to take them in and nothing else.

/thread

>12 stars
>Crown of the woman of the apocalypse

Yeah it probably should be more democratic.

But still, I think the EU is a good thing, because otherwise we are just America's bitch. Our alliance with them will ALWAYS be imbalanced, because their population is over 5x the size of ours. Whereas in the EU, Britain is equally sized to France by population. Us and France are basically joint second in the EU for size, behind Germany. And together, us and France hold more power than Germany.

So basically, the EU gives us more global power than our alliance with the US does, because the EU is an alliance where Britain is more powerful than it is in the "special relationship".

France has just ONE more MEP than we do you bloody moron. They have 74 and we have 73. So our voice is just as big as France's.

And if you combine the UK and France, it's 147, which is a third more than Germany has (they have 96), which means that if Britain and France disagree with Germany on something, we can out-vote them.

Do you think corruption is unique to the EU? I bet the EU is far less corrupt than many national governments.

That's a real convenient way of ignoring the issue

>France has just ONE more MEP than we do
Yes, and France and Germany have mapped out a long term vision of the EU to their benefit at our expense.
Remind me how we have a voice again?

>Do you think corruption is unique to the EU? I bet the EU is far less corrupt than many national governments.
dumb fuck a democratic government can be corrupted to get money fast , through international banks or EU , we dont have huge international banks here so our politicians take money from EU driving the nation down

I agree that that's not right. The EU needs to be more democratic, more representative of the views of its people. But still, I think the EU should still exist.

Part of the problem is low visibility of the EU parties. Most EU citizens have no idea who the EU parties are (pic related). They need to make themselves more visible, and EARN votes, like national parties do.

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>I think the EU should still exist.
EU should exist as a political union , not economic
also it should be made out of fascist leaders not corrupted politicians

>Yes, and France and Germany have mapped out a long term vision of the EU to their benefit at our expense.
Upon what are you basing this? Picture related, they don't always agree - they have different ideas, especially when it comes to the future of Europe.

You're an idiot.

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>me get more niggers
>no me get more niggers
agree user they are truly discussing about how to make europe a better place

Our politicians blame EU, but a sane swede would blame riksdagshuset for being passive and letting shit go on.

To be honest, the EU doesn't exactly give us more power than if we just cooperated with France and Germany on stuff like Iraq. It's not actually a superstate yet, although throwing away what was basically "best membership deal ever" out of spite won't help.

You want to increase British global power? Stop with the austerity bollocks, introduce some proper spending programs to utilize all available labour and increase the size of the Royal Navy and our intelligence services by half while you're at it, then stop following America around and try to broker as many deals as possible as a third party nation with a voice in Europe and good relations with the States.

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GOD SAVE THE KWANG!!!!!!

WE MEANNN IT MANNNNNN

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hOW ABOUT YOU GTFOOOOOO

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raping and killing of many europeans

It's good in principle, but not when it's being flooded with shitskins.

It WAS a great thing.
It helped a shattered Europe rebuild and stabilize external trade meaning people could move their local resources. But is was meant to be temporary. It served it's purpose well, and when the time came it's leaders were unwilling to relinquish the power they had gained.

Unwilling to let countries, their legs rebuilt and waiting to be tested, stand and re-establish their own policies.

Unwilling to let votes slip even if it meant hurting the very countries that had stood beside them.

Unwilling to risk a major power shift that might be shared with the continent for the good of all.

Instead, they sit.
Looming over a body, foot resting on it's chest as hypoxia begins to set in. It could rise and breathe if you raised your boot.

But you aren't raising your boot.

Why is that?

>Weiner laptop and Erik prince
Connects to NXIVM and Clintons
>which ties to Weinstein and allison mack
Which then exposes the CABAL!!!
THIS IS THEIR WEAKNESS!!!
>expose nxivm ,Epstein, Weinstein and the Clintons

youtu.be/nfeqJyo9xF4
>QRD is Weinstein is singing like q jail bird

You goys will love this!!!!
>shills will slide
>Jews will kvetch
>jeb bush presents his Guac as tribute

This is the battle for your minds!!!!This is a Motivational, spiritual energy blast into your memetic Sphere!!!
A pep Rally!!! A call to arms!!! A return to God and a destruction of the VILE ones!!!

youtu.be/lU_6QXIJkAc

>feeling down?
>depressed??

Well get cured and watch this Panacea for your mind!!!
>God loves you
You are not worthless Goyim Shit you are loved and appreciated and waiting for you to come home

>PRODIGAL SON is more important than the other son

Even if you dont believe in God there is alot of redpills in this video and you WILL FEEL BETTER !!!

>THE enemy wants you down and defeated!
Dont be!!! RISE UP

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no
sage

>Do you think mass immigration is unique to Europe? Because it isn't

yes it isn't, but there is a difference if you are forcing it or fight against it.

>EU Frontex are basically people smuggler, same as the NGOs. They pick up "refugees" at the 40 mile zone, and bring into Europe, instead of what their mandate and international see law states, that they should be brought to the nearest harbor, which is in africa. But instead of NGOs they only can act according to orders, someone is giving this orders.

>EU fail to enforce their own law regarding illegal immigration and boarder security, there is no prosecution for ignoring them.

>EU actively tires to force other member to take in refugees against the will of the people by blackmailing.

>EU (courts) actively hinders nations to limit social welfare to none citizens (none eu and eu), so the keep coming for the social welfare.

>EU is blackmailed by Turkey and pays billion to them to keep some of the rapies, they still leak. Instead of investing that money into the boarder security at the turkey border

>EU supported "regime change" in Libya, Syria and all the other Arabic shitholes that creates even more rapies. Took the leading role in Libya.

Everything the EU does results in more refugess, not less, results in less boarder security and destruction of the social security net in Europe.

Yeah I still remember what they said a few years ago, that they want to bring "all EU member states to the same level". They are actively working on it, the just never said which level they were aiming for.

It used to be good when a bit over a decade ago.
It has been going downhill a lot due to "tolerance".
Honestly on paper it sounds great -- in practice it fails horribly, watching myself write this and knowing basic history, i'm fearing the future of the EU.

I don't blame the Brexiteers.

Why do you care, why don't you just get on with your own life?

>why do you care if your wife gets raped and children killed

If only