Chriscucks: how do you explain the missionary paradox? Simplified: if you did not hear about white Jesus, what happens to you? Is it auto-hell?
Say there is a pagan tribe on an island. 1. Do all generations of natives go to hell until le missionary shows up? If so, how could a “loving god” do that? 2. If they get a pass and get to go to heaven because they haven’t heard of Jesus, isn’t the missionary fucking them because some people might not choose Jesus?
Shouldn’t everyone get the same chance to choose or not choose to Jesus? In the modern world pretty much everyone knows about Christianity, but it wasn’t always this way. If you never heard of Jesus were you dammned?
The Bible isn’t clear on this at all, neither are Christian scholars....
Jesus cant return until everyone has heard of him. Who invented this rule?
Christian Hill
The jews.
Kevin Sanders
The Bible clearly says they get transformed into pillars of salt.
Andrew Moore
That sounds about right.
Jaxon Young
>Do all generations of natives go to hell until le missionary shows up? If so, how could a “loving god” do that? Only the wicked go to Hell, imbecile. Specifically at the resurrection, those who are evil and reject Christ are cast into a lake of fire, and those who were loyal to Christ are resurrected to build the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who fulfill neither of those categories are not mentioned, presumably they are simply not resurrected.
>If they get a pass and get to go to heaven because they haven’t heard of Jesus, isn’t the missionary fucking them because some people might not choose Jesus? No, because those who are good will accept Christ, and those who are wicked will not.
>Shouldn’t This has nothing to do with anything.
Levi Cook
He was Semitic, so we have a baseline. Outside that, there's a description of Paul about 100 years after he died and one of Jesus only 250 years later as having blonde hair. Paul was described as bow-legged, balding with dark hair but having a soft face and short by a disciple of a disciple of a disciple. No much on Jesus's physical appearance that I'm aware of.
Tyler Brooks
i cant wait to slaughter you desert cult wh*Teoids and earn my place in Topan alongside Tlaloc
William Brown
>isn’t the missionary fucking them because some people might not choose Jesus?
isn't that free will, man?
pass the j
Christopher Lewis
God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you." 1 Corinth 5:13
Jose Mitchell
There's actually some truth to this. What OP is inquiring about is exactly why Revelation must take place. Surprisingly some will still turn away from Christ. The things that crawl up from the bottomless pit will devour their souls.
No - they will be judged according to their conscience. The point of missions was to share the good news that God loves them and died for their sins.
Wyatt Rivera
even though Titus 3:9 tells us to avoid foolish arguments, I'll play with you OP.
Your perspective is completely wrong here. Look at the missionary; he is told, as the disciples were, go and preach the gospel to every creature.
Therefore he must.
Don't get into some silly theological vortex that will waste your time over whether or not pagans are going to get saved or not (pro-tip; they're not.) John 3:16 - it's for whosoever believeth in him, not for good people or nice people or well-meaning people.
>*gasp* das so meen!!
it's not. It's the condition you're in, regardless of whether or not you believe it. It's mean to not let people know that that's the condition they are in. Hypothetical: If you had 100% infallible proof that your neighbor was going to die in a fire unless he installed a sprinkler system in his house, would it be better morally to tell him to install a sprinkler, or pretend his house is never going to catch on fire..?
Now here's the truth; you do have 100% proof that some people are going to burn and die, not only once but also the second death.
Levi Clark
So what specifically happens to those who are dead that never heard of Jesus in their lifetime between the time that they die and the second cumming? Are their souls in a sort of stasis? Purgatory?
When do they get to choose or not choose Christ and what are the logistics of this? If they get to make the decision before god and/or angles at the 2nd cumming, don’t they have proof of god right in front of them? Who’s gonna say “nah, I’ll pass - lake of fire please”. How is this fair to the people who had to make the decision based on faith and not evidence?
Samuel Watson
So, it’s your belief that all generations of pegans before the missionary came to town are getting the lake of fire? Yes or no?
David Hughes
1 - They don't, they will be resurrected in Paradise to get the chance to know God and the truth, then choose.
2 - No. In Paradise, you still have to be good, or else : lake of fire.
Benjamin Davis
It's spelled "coming" user, please don't pretend to be retarded.
All of us deserve hell. There is none that doeth good, no not one. Jesus Christ has died and risen that YOU may avoid hell.
So let's dive into your questions
>what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus? it's a failure of missionaries to get the good news to them. Guess what user, the entire world is connected remarkably well, anyone can get the gospel now.
>when do they get to choose Christ up until the instant they die. Read about the penitent thief, he's in the Gospel.
>how is that fair to people who make the decision based on faith parable of the late worker, prodigal son, etc the bible addresses this multiple times.
It's not my belief, it's in the Bible.
Angel Clark
Also, Christian lifestyle is the best one even now, that's why we speak share the faith. To help people have a good lifestyle.
Colton Cook
No it's not in the Bible. If people doesnt get the chance to hear about God, He is patient with them and they will be resurrected to get the opportunity to choose. That's in the Bible.
If they get to choose in paradise, who would choose no? If these people get to choose in paradise, they asumablly have proof that god exists that they can use to make their choice. How is this fair to the atheist that died under normal circumstances that would have easily chosen god given the same level of proof that these “paradise choosers” got.
Seems like god didn’t really think out the fairness of the logistics of salvation....
As for yoiur #2, How the fuck is it paradise if people can still commit crimes?
Kayden Hall
Your first steps to realising that religion is a bunch of inconsistent horsecrap
Luis Thompson
what you're actually saying is:
>I'm not letting strangers die in eternity because I'm too lazy to go soul-winning, teehee! god understands :))))
Stop thinking from the pagan's perspective; you know Christ, you have been instructed to preach the gospel to every creature, if it didn't matter if you preached the gospel or not, then why would God tell you to waste your time?
>If they get to choose in paradise, who would choose no?
Adam and Eve did. Because pride, because wanting to set our own standards and not respect God's.
>How is this fair to the atheist that died under normal circumstance...
Atheists didn't get the full picture either, so they will be back too. There is no resurrection ONLY if you were a real christian and THEN rejected the Truth.
Jason Smith
>t.calvanist heretic Learn to read, nigger.
Anthony Walker
>>I'm not letting strangers die in eternity because I'm too lazy to go soul-winning, teehee! god understands :))))
Not at all. I'm only speaking about the people who were not able to hear about Christ in History (especially before the information era, or even before Christ was on Earth) I'm preaching every week, man.
Jordan Jenkins
>Jesus cant return until everyone has heard of him. >Who invented this rule? Nobody, it's christkike reinterpretation, basically the coming of the christ would happen the day that everyone believes in the god of the jews. The actual coming, not some fancy second coming. It would be an era of world peace brought by the messiah. And the temple would be restored, something that didn't happen with the kike these faggots worship
Daniel Foster
Lulz - different christcucks in this thread can’t evem agree on the logistics of being saved.
It actually is a little more complicated than Austin 3:16 after all, isn’t it?
Oliver Anderson
It's not complicated, you're just a reprobate and have hardened your heart to the Lord.
That's fine, you're going to split the mouth of hell wide open when your stupid weak muttbrain leads you there.
Ill save everyone trouble with this retarded argument..
There are 3 destinations after death.. 2 of them almost nobody goes to, they are Heaven and Sheol.
The 3rd destination is what happens to the majority of people after they die which is their souls are destroyed, obliterated
Jaxson Flores
People that are ignorant about our Lord Jesus Christ can be baptised implicitely by living a good and moral life according to natural law. This is called baptism by desire.
if i remember if you never hear about christianity nothing happens if you dont believe not sure tho
Samuel Bennett
Jesus Christ is the bright and morning star of the apocalypse. Everyones gonna burn to death via star. The end.
Charles Wright
Nothing happens for witless children that are unbaptised, so children (born and unborn) that cannot account for their sins. I think this also applies for some mentally handicapped. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo This isn't infallible doctrine though.
Ryder Torres
That's true but Limbo is garbage. They will go in Paradise to grow up and choose too.
Oliver Allen
>T >U >L >I >P
Wew
Dylan Nelson
Maybe grab a dictionary and look up what "paradox" means
Xavier Hill
The bible is clear. Some are elected and some are not.
Eli Rodriguez
There is no free will in the bible.
Zachary Flores
Also who gives a fuck about who goes to heaven or not. Christ even said heaven and earth will pass, but the law lasts forever. He's just a rabbi.
Luis Thompson
Calvinists are crypto kikes. You believe the same racist horseshit doctrine that made God take the kingdom away from the kikes.
Man makes the choice. Salvation is a free gift offered to all. Jesus died for all men, and it is God's will that all men may be saved.
Grayson Nguyen
>It would be an era of world peace brought by the messiah.
>What is the recreation of the universe
A New Heaven and a New Earth
>1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Jaxon Lewis
Man can (must) choose between good and evil That's the point of the Bible.
Heb 5:14 good and evil
Nolan Sanders
All men do not get "saved". Everything is preordained.
Juan Williams
>A New Heaven and a New Earth Yeah, but that promise is false, since the new era should've begun when the christ arrived, not in an alleged second coming.
Face it, you believed a semitic religion and a false prophet captivated you.
>Man is already evil at birth So God is a retard then. Either that, or your religion is bullshit.
Isaiah Murphy
>Yeah, but that promise is false, since the new era should've begun when the christ arrived, not in an alleged second coming.
Let me tell about your religion
> 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Second comming everyone gets destroyed Christians go up in heaven , then the wicked get judged , then God creates everything new
Joshua Green
He can choose good. So there is choice.
Christian Miller
>Let me tell about your religion Yes, which I know and have practiced during childhood as most western men and in whose scripture am well read. >second coming No such thing, read your bible and pay attention to the testament jesus denies so much, that's where the promises of a messiah are made and jesus doesn't accomplish them all, there won't be a second coming.
You just believed a minoritary, backwards, desert cult, and did so from a false prophet of the many false prophets there were.
Grayson Lewis
It's no wonder that jews see goys as a weakling to exploit, the mere fact that you became christians and couldn't tell the false prophet apart outs you as retards in their eyes.
this present age is a fulfillment of God's word about the death of sinners
everyone including God himself, died or will die in this age, only Satan and his followers refused to become flesh
the purpose of his age is to prevent the destruction of God's children, not bring it about, so yes, there will be a more than fair opportunity for every soul to choose God, or death, which are the only two options available, like it or not
Logan Phillips
>Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. -John 14:6
People often forget the merciful God of the New Testament is also the wrathful God of the Old testament. God is not and has never been obligated to save anyone he does so out of love and mercy beyond comprehension but unless we accept him into our hearts we cannot partake in his mercy.
Mankind chose sin each and every one of us has deliberately done something we knew was wrong so we all deserve hell. Regardless of whether or not we've learned of Jesus's sacrifice we have already earned our punishment and unfortunately not everyone will learn the gospel before they die. So the missionaries task is of the greatest importance as unless they spread the word entire civilizations could be doomed to eternal suffering.
I believe this is why it was Christian Europe that spread it's reach across the globe. For everywhere Europeans went their missionaries came with them offering salvation to from our sins through Christ the Son of God
>Chriscucks: how do you explain the missionary paradox? Simplified: if you did not hear about white Jesus, what happens to you? Is it auto-hell? Read the Catechism, dumbass. All those bait threads are answered there.
Caleb Nguyen
>Yes, which I know and have practiced during childhood as most western men and in whose scripture am well read.
Sure you have , which one of the 200 denominations ?
>King James Bible And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
>Sure you have , which one of the 200 denominations ? Catholic >the bible says this Looks like you are fixated with the NT, apparently you're ignoring the things of the OT that invalidate the NT.
Adrian Reed
>the things of the OT that invalidate the NT. >Catholic
Checks out. You don't understand the Bible.
Jeremiah Green
Theres layers to hell. Those caugt up in the Missionary Paradox get sent to the first layer, with all the greek scholars and unbaptised dead babies
Kevin Kelly
why don't you answer here? enlighten your brothers
Christian Williams
That isn't biblical.
Dylan Phillips
isnt it a little late in the process to still be arguing about something basic like salvation?
next on the docket is the antichrist, and the whole world is being prepared to worship him, christian or otherwise
this is the true purpose of the flesh age, to judge all men who love and prefer lies, many of whom falsely profess to love God
Joshua Gomez
the answer to that is simple and has been established for centuries.
why do you go on to spout about such an illiterate thing? are you 13 and just came up with a pseudo-original thought but were too lazy to literally google that shit?
Adam Adams
>isnt it a little late in the process to still be arguing about something basic like salvation?
People still have no clue about the Bible, you know?
Ian Gutierrez
El gobolins are real
Asher Gomez
Catholic
muh catholic is wrong ... oh ,oh knew that the warrior religion from constantine was wrong
Most of the ot literally means nothing to me , i use the laws and the stories but any prophetic text i will see as a metaphor , i cannot read isiah and do not assume anyone today can, the jews could not even read it in that time
Dylan Young
He actually believes dante's fiction story
Lincoln Adams
>i cannot read isiah and do not assume anyone today can, the jews could not even read it in that time
Jesus quoted Isaiah
Jose Kelly
Sure but not all 66 pages
Levi Green
>you're ignoring the things of the OT that invalidate the NT. Wot? Judaiser, get out.
Ryan Sullivan
That's not an argument. He quoted it. It's enough to prove that Isaiah was used and respected.
Hudson Brooks
>Wot? The messiah was supposed to rebuild the temple, but jesus came in an epoch where the temple was still standing. The messiah was supposed to bring a new era of peace, but jesus said he brought a sword and not peace. The messiah is supposed to come when everyone in the world, no exceptions, has accepted YHWH as their god, this never happened when jesus came.
Adam King
Romans 1:18-20 >For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; >Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. >For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Brody Harris
i am talking about me and most of the jews in that time , offcourse it is respected jesus and his disciples could read it
Blake Roberts
Jesus explained that it's not the physical building that was important, it was the church and the people. Also, change of law and priesthood = no need for these old rock (destroyed in 70 to prove that God was finished with the jews as a people)
The work of the Messiah isn't limited to his earthly work, it's continuing right now. Still, his preaching helped people to make peace. The sword he brought was just about the other not accepting the conversion of their now christian friend/family member)
same point for 3, the work isn't over for Jesus.
Hudson Martin
??? When you die, your soul will seperate from your body and will go to be judged. If it enters heaven, it cannot choose against God anymore, because it is free of any sins, including original sin. It has been baptised (wether by water, blood or desire) and taken up in Christ's body, which is his Holy Church. You cannot enter heaven with any sins, so you cannot sin against God in heaven.
Nicholas Powell
>The messiah was supposed to rebuild the temple
where in the bible does it say that ? that is just made up stuff like the antichrist is a faggot
Jackson Mitchell
No, when you die, your soul die. Don't mix up Greek philosophy with the Bible
Thomas Ortiz
This.
Oliver Sullivan
And the dust return into its earth, from whence it was, and the spirit return to God, who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7). Death on earth is a bodily death, your soul will return to God to be judged.
Nathan Nguyen
Spirit != Soul
Charles Scott
The most important thing is that anyone can use scripture and bend it to his will, and when you are not learned it would lead to your destruction, here we have satan quoting isiah
>6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Leo Young
Spirit is not soul even animals have the spirit of god
>13"Who gave Him authority over the earth? And who has laid on Him the whole world? 14"If He should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, 15All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust.…
Samuel Nelson
Jesus rebuild the temple as his own body when he resurrected on the third day. Even if the old temple was still standing, her sacrifice of the old covenant did not suffice anymore. Jesus fixed this by giving his life on the cross as an eternal sacrifice.
The peace is one of the spirit, not a political kind of peace.
And as frenchbro said, his works isn't limited to his 33 years on earth.
Adam Mitchell
>Jesus explained that it's not the physical building So Jesus contradicted god and the prophets? >Also, change of law and priesthood So Jewsus contradicted god and the prophets? >destroyed in 70 Yes, that means Jewsus could not possibly rebuild it. >God was finished with the jews I don't know Rick, seems fake, I would argue that the jews are in power and overprotected because a demiurgical power places them there. >The work of the Messiah isn't limited to his earthly work The work of the messiah is doing what the messiah is prophesied to do, if he doesn't, he isn't the messiah. >his preaching helped people to make peace As highlighted by the religious wars in all of the world. >The sword he brought was just about the other not accepting the conversion This never happened, forced conversion was the norm >where in the bible does it say that ? "From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes"
you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.
>No flood >no grain offering >but it totally is jewsus
Levi Davis
>The Bible isn’t clear on this at all, neither are Christian scholars.... yes it is/they are. if you read the bible, or god forbid augustine, you would have debunked yourself quickly
save yourself, im not gonna spoon feed you. cya faggot
