1. Why do Christian majority countries have an army and borders when you should have neither? Didn't Jesus say love your enemy, turn the other cheek, and offer a place to stay for travelers? You can either be a Christian or you can be a hypocrite.
2. If God can punish entire humanity for a mistake of Adam, why can't black people hold white christians accountable for the sins of their fathers i.e. for slavery? Aren't they simply following the God of Christianity?
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ok Muhammad
>Didn't Jesus say love your enemy,
Love them because fighting them keeps you sharp.
>turn the other cheek,
Only for friends
>and offer a place to stay for travelers?
Only for potential friends.
>2. If God can punish entire humanity for a mistake of Adam, why can't black people hold white christians accountable for the sins of their fathers i.e. for slavery?
An allegory, everyone knows genesis spent hundreds of generations being an oral tradition before only being written down after it went through Egypt.
Don't make up your own meanings. Jesus would not have liked that.
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Matthew 5:44
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil:
but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:39
“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.” - Levictus 19:33-34
This ones for you because you are making stuff up,
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in :heaven." - Matthew 7:21
Muslims believe in Jesus too American user. They don't consider him as God but as a prophet of God just like Prophet Muhammad
Entire Christianity revolves around Adam and Eve's mistake and Jesus correcting it. What allegory are you talking about?
“Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.” - Hebrews 13:2
“Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.” - Zechariah 7:9-10
“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you” - Levictus 25:35
Jesus did say it but also God said "a tooth for a tooth, an eye for an eye"
He said don't do that.
"You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" - Matt 5:38
>love your enemy
Not “have no enemies”. As a mother punishes an indolent child out of love so should we correct our enemies.
>turn the other cheek
Anachronistic. More appropriately translated would be “force those who demean you to treat you as an equal”
>offer safe place to stay for travelers
Not sure what you mean by this, I assume it is a laughable misunderstanding of the story of the Good Samaritan, in which we are taught that our countrymen are our neighbors when Christ was questioned about what loving thy neighbor meant.
>Adam
Humanity was blessed for the success of Adam, another misreading on your part.
Why do people with no understanding or respect of theology feel like their opinions matter?
Jesus said things in that nature but you have to remember that in the bible "gods chosen people" genocided the philistines and cannanites. War is and was a big part of the human experience for all of history The bible doesn't explicitly state war and standing armies are a sin so it can be assumed some wars are justified or even holy.
Not everyone believes in original sin many would argue its just a metaphor to explain why we are born with a sinful nature.
>As a mother punishes an indolent child out of love so should we correct our enemies.
You can correct them verbally. Not physically.
>“force those who demean you to treat you as an equal”
Making stuff up out of thin air. How could hundreds of translations have all got it wrong?
>"offer safe place to stay for travelers." Not sure what you mean by this
“Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.” - Hebrews 13:2
“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.” - Levictus 19:33-34
>Humanity was blessed for the success of Adam, another misreading on your part.
Please explain why Jesus had to go through so much suffering because of Adam when God could have simply forgiven Adam. I love Jesus and would not want to see him get hurt.
I understand your point. But being christian would mean to follow Jesus. Jesus did not physically hurt even a single person in his life.
Love = absence of hate
Only God judges because He knows the objective Truth
Okay. I agree with that. But what point are you addressing? I did not get you.
>Jesus did not hurt anybody
I guess flipping tables and whipping jews doesn't count for some reason.
I'm guessing you don't know much about the bible because if you did you might remember the prophets that would come in times of need to btfo the jews and the philistines in war. David also went to war and he was known as the man that "was after gods own heart"
War is a pretty comon theme in the bible nowhere does it say war and standing armies are an abomination.
God uses war in the bible to bring about change take for example the Cyrus overthrowing the Babylonians or routinely sending the philistines to fuck up the jews shit for not following his law.
>creates different races and puts them in different places
>humanity unites into a single people under a single language and builds the tower of babel
>god says no, thats not what i want, and scatters the people and confuses the tongues making sure they have different languages and cultures again
variety is the spice of life and also ensures we dont piss off the creator who doesnt want us to boring
im not actually religious, but clearly the bible isnt keen on monoculture, just saying.
if you respect diversity rather then just paying lipservice to it for virtue siugnalling, then you wouldnt be in support of one peoples with no borders.
didnt jesus also say that if you dont own a sword then sell your cloak to buy a sword. loving your enemy doesnt mean you cant ram a foot of sharp metal into his torso
Kill yourself shit kike acts 17:26 you are a faggot, read the bible and stop sucking cock Chaim
>you can’t hit your kids! I don’t understand analogies!
Enjoy your basedboy
I didn’t say it was badly translated, I said it was anachronistic. At the time slapping someone with your dirty hand was a sign of dominance and disrespect whereas slapping with your clean hand was a sign of challenge and respect. By “turning the other cheek” they are forced to acknowledge you as an equal or retreat.
>offer safe space for travelers
>entertain strangers
Notice how none of those words are the same?
>soujourn
Do you know what that word means?
>why Jesus?
It has to do with God following his own laws, namely those of sacrifice, repentence, and divorce/remarriage. It was a long-winded apology in which the life of Christ exhibits that God does not find his law impossible to follow (for Christ was without sin) but that our relationship is more important to him than perfection in the law.
>Jesus did not hurt a single person In his life
>13And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of (((merchandise)))
You have no idea what you are talking about.
>Didn't Jesus say love your enemy, turn the other cheek, and offer a place to stay for travelers?
Bullets and borders fulfill all of these. Heck, we'd be waging wars over air space traffic with the Russians if we didn't "turn the other cheek". Then we'd have Russian borders.
Why do you think you know what Christ actually said? The bible has been chopped and screwed multiple times. The translations are innacurate and it's done purposefully in some instances. Remember Christ turned over tables and beat the shit out of Jews in the temple.
There's a whole book in the Bible about building a wall.
>I didn’t say it was badly translated, I said it was anachronistic. At the time slapping someone with your dirty hand was a sign of dominance and disrespect whereas slapping with your clean hand was a sign of challenge and respect. By “turning the other cheek” they are forced to acknowledge you as an equal or retreat.
that makes sense actually
Refugees and invaders are not sojourners
Turn the other cheek means give it your best shot, asshole, cause I'm about to whoop your ass.
Fucking pope trying to wreck the message, again.
Honestly, these shills always get btfo by people that have read the fucking bible, it's quite pathetic desu.
By the way, islam supports a jewish state in palestine; "Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
Things Christ said make sense
Go figure!
It is badly translated in several instances. I'm not disagreeing with it being anachronistic, and a lot of stuff just got left out.
religion = philosophy built on supernatural
Why don't you actually read the book and find out yourself what it says. It's not that long, especially if you only read the new testament which has most of the guidelines for christians unlike the old one which is more about israeli history.
Could be only to scare the enemy. Not to hurt them.
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil:
but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:39
"Jesus made a whip from some ropes and chased them all out of the Temple. He drove out the sheep and cattle, scattered the money changers' coins over the floor, and turned over their tables." - John 2:15
But did he hit them or was it to scare them away?
Good point. I appreciate you educating me.Thanks man.
ive heard that the bible never mentions hell and that this whole concept of eternal punishment was made up. not sure if thats true. heaven was mentioned of course, but is hell real or do you just cease to exist after death if you dont qualify for heaven. the whole eternity of torture thing always seemed a bit harsh and unnecesaary.
He also said you should never use your sword
>for all who draw the sword will die by the sword
Hell is mentioned, the issue with most people is confusing “eternal punishment” with “continual punishment”. Having your hand cut off for stealing is an “eternal punishment” while going to jail is a “continuous punishment”.
The Bible of clear that the wages of sin is death, and hell is the second death.
>You can correct them [children] verbally. Not physically.
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, that will not hearken to the voice of his father and the voice of his mother and though they chasten him, will not hearken unto them, then shall his father and his mother lay hold of him and bring him out unto the elders of his city… They shall say unto the elders of his city: This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he doth not hearken to our voice, he is a glutton and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones that he die; so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear
Deut. 21:18–21
Nice try, Schlomo.
1. Christian-majority countries are not ruled by Jesus. Perhaps you as a Muhammadan haven't understood that religions in general are not like Islam that imposes a specific system of political rule. An imposition of Christian rule would in many ways be against Christianity. There is no forcible submission in Jesus' message.
2. Nonsense. By the same token a black person might as well hold any other black person accountable for some crime committed in history because it's guaranteed some ancestor committed say murder or theft in the past. To think this is the logic of original sin is utter stupidity.
From the Catholic Catechism:
>Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it; subject to ignorance, suffering, and the dominion of death; and inclined to sin—an inclination to evil that is called “concupiscence.” Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back toward God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle
>Israeli history
Because Jesus never said “be absolutely retarded”.
is that what is being said here? maybe he is not saying dont use the sword, just that you will die by it. sorta like, "go ahead if you have to, but you will likely get killed, just saying."
arabs were the biggest slave traders and niggers sold other niggers to whites and jews.
Also S A G E
Important to note this isn’t merely the parents decision, but that the whole community must unanimously agree to put them to death.
A really, really shitty kid.
>Only white people had slaves
Wrong again.
Africans, Arabs, and Asians still own slaves.
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
I should have quoted the whole verse
>"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
There is nothing in that verse which says the decision to execute their son belongs to anyone but the parents. The parents only need to notify the elders that their son deserves death, and all of the city's men shall participate in killing the child.
So the whole city is forced, by the parents, to kill their son? There is a reason it falls on the city to kill the child rather than on the parents themselves.
The sword is metaphorical and is said to split families and tribes.
Also it explicitly has the parents approached the elders first. It literally couldn’t be more clear it isn’t just their decision.
New religion: God is dead
"Jesus was a sinner not a god you dumbo, he just suicided himself with words from a script before jewish people and they use him now to control goyim." - eveynormalpersonalive
>So the whole city is forced, by the parents, to kill their son?
No. The MEN of the city are COMMANDED BY GOD to kill the boy.
>There is a reason it falls on the city to kill the child rather than on the parents themselves.
Yes, and the reason is, "so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear"
>Also it explicitly has the parents approached the elders first. It literally couldn’t be more clear it isn’t just their decision.
No. It explicitly states that the parents merely notify the elders. Nowhere in that passage does it say the elders had any say in the parents' decision. The parents approached the elders once they had already decided to kill their own son.
>borders
Can't not persecute the aliens without a border, senpai.
So elders and men of the city are mentioned for no reason instead of just saying “yo, go ahead and kill your kids if you want”?
You are just pretending the bulk of the passage isn’t there for no reason.
> slapping with your clean hand was a sign of challenge and respect.
So you are getting slapped in the end no matter what. Why do you care whether you got slapped by a clean or a dirty hand? What matters is you got slapped. How does that make sense? I am agnostic and in my opinion allowing evil is as bad as doing evil.
>entertain strangers
“Whoever has two coats must share with anyone who has none…” - Luke 3:11
The immigrants want a part of what you have? Why won't you share your blessings and happiness with them?
>Jesus died for Adam's mistake
But you still did not explain why it is wrong for black people to not ask for the punishment of white people because of what white people did to their forefathers. If Adam's sins can be transmitted to us then white people's sins can go to their sons and daughters right?
>Jesus made a whip and drove them out the temple
Again, was it just for scaring them out the temple or did he actually hit them with the whip? Just like the verse about swords, I think this was for appearances only because Jesus was all about love.
Best bible translation with no choppings? KJV good?
Share your coats (blessings) with them. Luke 3:11
What? That makes no sense. Turning the other cheek means let the enemy slap you with a backhand once the enemy has slapped you with his palm.
Deo Sol invicto is the form
Once again, here's Deut 21:18-21. This time it's KJV. Please quote where the elders had any input into the parents' decision.
>18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
>19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
>20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
>21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
No reason is given for notifying the elders, but I would assume that if one is going to organize a stoning in which every single man in an entire city is involved, getting the municipal government involved would be the way to go about it.
God not real that wwhy what cuck
What part of anachronistic isn’t penetrating that skull of yours?
>coats
So you’ve pumped the well dry of Christ quotes and now are taking John’s out of context as well?
Why are you so desperate?
>misquoting me to mean the opposite
If you aren’t going to listen to me I don’t have much reason to continue.
Hey OP, Answers you don't want to hear!
>Have zero understanding of something
>Pose questions that you think "Gotcha" to those hate mongers
>be smug, having conquered those stupid people who obviously aren't as enlightened as you after 15 seconds of thought through a haze of bong smoke and onions milk.
Your time is up. Seems like you've chosen poorly so far. You are smart enough to figure out that hydrogen left alone doesn't become people.
You are smart enough to actually read the book yourself, skip to the middle and read the red words especially.
You are smart enough to have no excuses when your reckoning is upon you.
Time is UP
Your interpretation is that parents, without any other input, can cause the entire city to commit the sin of murder.
It’s incredibly silly.
That is just barbaric. Why don't christian countries do that to feminists and such right now?
I am not Schlomo.
>Christian-majority countries are not ruled by Jesus.
Then you aren't christian countries. You are a country of people who do not follow Christ.
Punish every single race involved forever then.
“Put your sword in it’s place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” - Matt 26:52
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you". - Ephisians 4:31
But some of his message was good. As a non-christian I appreciate that.
>At the time slapping someone with your dirty hand was a sign of dominance and disrespect whereas slapping with your clean hand was a sign of challenge and respect.
This is false. I've read essays about this saying that this is nothing more than a myth and back in Roman times there was no differences between a slap with your right and left hand
because the dirty hand is the one he wipes his ass with
1. Jesus also preached to His followers that they should not destroy Rome just because it's not nice to them. This is because toppling civilization just for the sake of feelings is completely immoral.
2. Adam, Eve, and all of their descendants are effected by the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Suggesting that only Adam and Eve should be punished would be like if your father stole something, gave it to you, and then you said "But I didn't steal it!" while keeping the item. So the first half of your point is dead wrong. The second half makes even less sense. Africans, as a general race, practiced slavery. So did every other race. Most African slaves from the triangular trade were captured by African warlords and taken to South America. North America only took a fraction. On top of this, few white people are descended from slave owners. Slave ownership was for the wealthy who needed slaves, not for everybody. Saying that America, virtually the only remotely white nation which majorly profited from slavery (since Europe banned it early) should have to be "held accountable" for the profits made from slavery is absurd. Slavery exacerbated the deadliest war in American history, so the toll has already been paid. Even imagining that the abject destruction of the Civil War isn't enough of a payment, we've had other consequences. African Americans have committed half of the homicides that happened throughout the previous century. They're overrepresented in violent crime across the board and are currently one of the chief sources of political unrest in the country, which is nothing new. We've already been cursed for slavery. If anything, we've suffered too much. We hurt hundreds of thousands of people and, in the process, delivered their descendants into infinitely greater wealth than they otherwise would have had.
I always dig the well if your christian why aren't you sitting in a field holding flowers all day argument. kek
You might be a meek scared person. I am brave and courageous. I will live a righteous life as a non-christian agnostic learning from all religions and talk to God about entry into heaven or hell (if there is one) myself. If he is just then he will not punish me for a silly reason like not being formally christian.
>“Put your sword in it’s place,
maybe he meant the swords place was your enemies torso
>for all who take the sword will perish by the sword
if your enemy takes a sword in the torso he will totally perish yes
My interpretation? Again, quote the part you think I am misinterpreting. Where does Deut 21:18-21 say it is not only the parents' decision?
An execution, commanded by God Himself, is, by definition, not murder.
>someone said that isn’t true so it isn’t.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Countless articles disagree with you, including the atheist-run Wikipedia.
1) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. -Matthew 10:34
2) Black people are not God.
also white people were slaves in the barbary slave trade which was far more extensive then the american slave trade. and yet nobody talks about the barbary slave trade
This part:
>which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
>19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
>20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
>21 And all the men of his city shall
>That is just barbaric. Why don't christian countries do that to feminists and such right now?
It is violent and distasteful. It is also ordained by God. And, quite frankly, I think we should do that to feminists and such...the sooner the better.
Ok now Apocalyptic passages of the Bible about the third temple :)
Why even bother leaf? Slavery in Africa far predates slavery on the American continents for obvious reasons. These morons are operating on the logic error that slavery in the United States was somehow a new thing in the scheme of the world while simultaneously assuming that slavery was a net negative for contemporary American blacks to the point where they could or would seek vengeance for being brought to a place that is objectively better than the one they were taken from.
>implying the first half of the Bible doesn't exist/should not be followed
>implying the governing body should follow the same rules as the layman
>ignoring Romans 13:4
>Matthew 7:5
>Could be only to scare the enemy. Not to hurt them.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. Without the willingness to kill the threat of death is meaningless.
Counterargument
>There seems to be no evidence in Greco-Roman (pagan) texts that a
backhanded (or left-handed) slap was especially blameworthy. That
evidence is confined to certain Jewish texts, in particular to rabbinic texts.
>t. John Granger Cook
Muhammedans believe in Isa, the counterfeit Jesus of Islam.
also, torturing animals is not something any farmer in his right mind would do. so why would he torture his slaves, it would just make them more difficult. give him a job to do, feed him well so he is strong, and treat him kindly so he wont want to rebel. he is getting food in exchange for labor which is more then he had in africa so maybe he doesnt mind so much i dunno. maybe paying them just wasnt how things worked back then so maybe the slaves didnt take it too personally either. i just cant see them all whipping and torturing their slaves all the time, whats the point. maybe getting a white slave owner in america instead of being a slave to other blacks was like hitting the prosperity jackpot. i still dont agree with slavery in principle, im just saying maybe it wasnt all so bad as the movies make it look. im not trying to justify slavery, just saying it was a more complicated situation then simply "its pure evil"
>they shall say unto the elders of his city
The parents are TELLING the elders.
There is no, "and the elders judged the parents correct".
There is no, "and the elders approved"
There is no, "submitted their son to the elders for judgement"
There is nothing in your quote which involves the elders in the decision.
You are inventing your own version of the scriptures. You are preaching a false gospel.
>But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8
Another hypocrite who does not believe in scripture but uses it to further his agenda.
although also, to be fair, most slave owners were jewish. but that doesnt fit the political agenda so we arent taught about that in schools
How exactly is that a counterargument?
"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you". - Ephisians 4:31
You are being kind of an asshole with that reddit picture.
>1. Don't topple civilization for Jesus
You are not Jesus and your lands are not Roman.
“Whoever has two coats must share with anyone who has none…” - Luke 3:11
>2. Adam and eve
Hmm. This was a good explanation. So just like you and I are benefiting from the tree of Knowledge there are various people benefiting from slavery now. And Adam and Eve's mistake is a forced sin on us. It's like your telling me I'm bad because I am human. I can't not be human. And if I do have to pay a price for it then it should have been me paying the price and not Jesus.
The elders are responsible for interpretations of the law, user.
>im just saying maybe it wasnt all so bad as the movies make it look
This is evident to anyone who takes the time and effort to look. Just before the American Civil War there was an attempt to start a slave rebellion by an abolitionist named John Brown. Ironically the first person he and his group of thugs killed was the freed black train conductor that tried to prevent them from hijacking his tram.
He raided an armory and attempted to incite the slaves to rebel but they refused. Afterward he retreated to that armory and holed up there. He was extricated by US Marines under the command of Robert E. Lee. His execution for treason against a state he was not born in or a citizen of was a major contributing factor to public outrage in the North at the time.
How is using the literal words of scripture hypocritical
Every
Time
No appearances can be scary too. And "Si vis pacem, para bellum" is not a part of the bible.
By pointing out that Romans did not consider any slap more or less insulting
And parents are responsible for judging the actions of their children and meting out appropriate punishment.
Your feelings about what you want the bible to say are irrelevant. Stop preaching a false gospel.
Your point? I am neither leftist nor communist.
Just stop you are just too fucking stupid to understand the bible just like you are probably too stupid to understand homer or poetry.
>If God can punish entire humanity for a mistake of Adam, why can't black people hold white christians accountable for the sins of their fathers i.e. for slavery? Aren't they simply following the God of Christianity?
They can hold a grudge all they want and blame us. We can also blame them for every rape and murder they commit, and hereditary guilt also means hereditary pride
>No appearances can be scary too
A sword without a killer behind it is like an unloaded gun. Threat alone is not enough.
>And "Si vis pacem, para bellum" is not a part of the bible.
No shit Sherlock.
And the relevance you see here?
LOL. That is a really funny picture. But I do appreciate the bible. I'm not christian though.