Prove to me how Illegal immigrants lower wages
Supply and demand.
They are willing to work for much less
Fpbp
/thread
Because if people who will work for less than minimum wage under the table are around, they will be preferred by bosses whose only loyalty is money.
Prove to me how 2 new bakeries opening next to my bakery will force me to lower my prices.
Bob is a construction worker making 20hr
Pablo moves into town
Pablo will do the same job for 15hr
Pablo gets the job
Bob must now charge 15hr if he wants to work
Bob charges 20hr for work
There are no other workers
Company offers Bob 25hr to work for them instead
Bob takes the new job
You can’t /thread you own post faggot
Put Lesnar in control of border control
you are retarded aren;t you OP
here let me ask you a question
why dont we print a bunch of money so everyone can be rich?
what is the inherent problem with it?
1 post by this ID.
Dont fall for it again Jow Forums
I remember when "The Grapes of Wrath" used to be required reading in school. That must be why the jews stopped that shit right quick when they took over Public Edjewcation.
>1 post by this (((ID)))
So should California pay less by the hour? , is the state with more Mexicans ,after Mexico City.
>I don't understand how averages work.
It's not worth explaining to you if you can't grasp such a simple concept.
You have to be 18 to post here, you fucking retard.
sage
we should kick them all out
then let students and kids take their jobs picking fucking oranges
fuck off bean nigger
Thats the assumption that all who employ illegal immigrants are paying lower than minimum, which itself is illegal and would get them audited. And I don't see companies getting audited and shut down every year, so that isn't the case. At worst most of them are working minimum wage for companies legality. But against, how would a bunch of people working at the minimum wage lower wages for the rest of the country? Especially in jobs that aren't unskilled or require English?
Competition doesn't necessarily mean lower costs. Phone and ISP markets are very competitive and saturated but year their costs go up and up.
Constitution says "No cruel and usual punishment."
That isn't a one to one example. Native population is getting more and more skilled and less likely or willing to do unskilled labor jobs, so an influx of illegal immigrants wouldn't drive down their wages in non construction or other jobs.
For the sake of argument, seeing how this issue is literally the talking point the left won't retort if asked.
If a tax payer, social security payer, Medicare/Medicaid, health insurance buying payer needs $10 an hour to afford living at socioeconomic status X and an illegal who isn’t required to buy any of those only needs $7 an hour to afford living at the same socioeconomic status, businesses will hire at the lower wage, pricing the citizen out of that labor market in favor of the illegal.
That’s why dems are batshit insane. They want to give amnesty to 11 milllion illegals (basically making them citizens and therefore pay taxes and buy heath insurance) while at the same time wanting minimum wage increase. They’d instantly price 11 million people out of their respective labor markets.
ISP markets... competitive. Do you even know how that business works?
They don't
They're hired because they work without being taxed and don't require minimum wage.
they're cheaper because the government has banned cheap US labor.
They took our jobs is more applicable to the US government in that, they took our jobs and gave them to the spics.
all government policies are cancer.
>all who employ illegal immigrants are paying lower than minimum, which itself is illegal and would get them audited.
This assumes those hiring illegals report how much they are paying them, and that they will be "audited," whatever the fuck you mean by that.
>Phone and ISP markets are very competitive and saturated but year their costs go up and up.
>I've never actually worked at or invested in an isp
The costs go up because the new tech and infrastructure costs R&d and maintenance you utter retard. It averages a million a mile to bury fiber, why do you think there's a huge fight over who will upgrade low subscriber rural areas?
Illegals don't pay income tax, insurance or certis and training, and they don't mind sharing a room between half a dozen beaners. Locals can't compete even if they wanted to.
Well if you hire an illegal and pay him $5 an hour, you will get audited by the IRS in your business expense report for wages paid to employees/contractors for paying below the minimum wage. Ergo if you employee illegals who just don't report to the IRS or pay their taxes, you still are listed as paying them even if they don't file, and it you only pay them sub-minimal wages, you'll get audited, fined, and possibly shut down.
Yes they do, IRS reports that about 6 Billion in taxes are paid in combined payroll and income tax by undocumented workers because they are working under the precedent of the 1986 amnesty act that says if you worked and paid your taxes, you would be eligible for amnesty if the government did it again.
That isn't a one to one example. Native population is getting more and more skilled and less likely or willing to do unskilled labor jobs, so an influx of illegal immigrants wouldn't drive down their wages in non construction or other jobs.
100's of studies PROVE the exact opposite. I'm a trader for a living are you high af or what?
Do you realize how and why commodities futures exist and the point of them?
Have you see what income levels look like since 1970... Do you really want to debate the specifics?
statista.com
Alright faggot, let's say they just pay them the minimum wage.
That's still a huge amount of people who are willing to just take that, making it fucking impossible for any of the legal citizens to actually barter for a better pay.
We have the same problem in Denmark with polish people, and anyone who does'nt have a good union-agreement in their trade suffers from this. At least in the construction bussiness.
Plus the buildings are just made shittier.
You want a raise? Why should I give you one when I can easily replace you with Rodrigo?
Jow Forums is 18+ kid. once you've been in the real world you will look back on these days and cringe at your naievte. (How do you spell naivete nope)
>file under wages
You dumb motherfucker they don’t file illegal hires and their wages under their employee expenses. They file it under some other expense in order to hide it. There are a couple of guys working for my flooring company that are illegal and we pay them 80% of what we pay citizens. We deduct the 20% for the risk of tax fraud.
They actually increase wages.
Company has a huge pool of cheap labor.
Company can bid more jobs for less money.
This benefits the company and the businesses who contract this company
Infrastructure is boosted and the economy grows
Some companies start offering more money because they can
And now as a plumber i can quit my job any day and get a new one and probably a small raise
I called out sick today to day drink because they wont fire me. There are just not enough workers even with mexicans
If anything Millenial neets are stagnating wages because they contribute nothing to the economy but take a lot.
Also i prefer to work with mexicans rather than niggers
>hundred of thousands if not 1,000,000+ illegals enter every year
>illegals willing to work for lower wages
>business permit work for lower wages.
>bargain ultimately between illegals and businesses
>illegals get money while living illegally
>business save money
>wages reduced
super complex logic
The IDs don't even March you fucking retarded spic
Wage is a function of worker protection. If it is illegal for an employer to cheat their workers, wages tend to go up. As the introduction of bad money into the market chases out good money, so does the introduction of an unprotected class of worker into the general labor pool chase out the protected class of workers, because any employer who still uses the protected class for labor suffers increased operating costs, and is slowly but surely pushed out of the market, resulting in the layoff of the protected class.
>inb4 a worker is a worker
Look, the citizens of the united states have banded together as a form of protection against bad actors like the kind of people who would cheat their employees. It's sad that illegal spics were unable to forge the same protections in their home countries, but social circumstances are governed by a survival of the fittest, and there is only so much protection to be had in this world. Why should I, as a U.S. citizen who has obeyed the law my entire life, who comes from a long line of citizens of this country who have done likewise, bend over backwards for lawbreakers? The proposition is absurd on its face, and should be rejected without any consideration in the first place. I'm only tolerating your poorly formed contention as an opportunity to educate fellow anons on this subject. Otherwise, I'd simply spit in your face, as you are a fool who talks out of place, and walk on by.
Except when these businesses start making more money some will increase wages and the rest will have to follow suit or they wont be able to afford labor and will perish. Illegals are not keeping wages down. Wages are going up. The problem is that housing prices are being artificially inflated by short sighted financiers and bankers and their cronies in the government.
Income in the 1970s to not looks like its had consistent growth that just got offset by the recession into 2014. What exactly are you trying to imply here?
Also there is a difference between skilled labor like masonry or HVAC that is just looked at as lower but is still skilled and digging a dig or washing dishes. Americans don't want those jobs as much, and even the skilled labor jobs are having a massive vacuum raising their wages to where a basic welder can make 6 figures, so I am not seeing your point. Majority of Americans today have been put in the mindset that college is the defacto action after colllege and that has lead to a flight from the native population from these jobs.
I mean you could actually retort my contention rather than just claiming i'm underage as if that is a refutation.
Proof? IRS says they collect the wages from employers and illegals themselves to prove it.
KYS
Fuck you. Sage
>I'm only tolerating your poorly formed contention as an opportunity to educate fellow anons on this subject
That would be the point of the thread and the question.
Do you fear discourse?
>more workers competing for the same job
>"wages will go up!"
You should be ashamed using your actual flag and not a meme-flag, only europeans have a right to be this economically illiterate.
I know Brits fuck up the use of dates, but this is just fucking ridiculous
Bam!
x / y < (x + 1) / y
They are not competing for the same job. The cheap workers actually grow the economy and create new jobs. These jobs require skills and not everyone has those skills so skilled workers can demand a higher wage.
How the fuck did you learn to write?
>OP, you are THE cuckening
Redpill is that LEGAL immigration costs us 3x as much - $300 billion a year.
If unskilled nonenglish speaking immigrants are a threat to your career you have no place to criticize them because you are literally as low as they are.
Except if they have ITIN the company doesn't really have to worry about being audited.
Because fuck the proletariat, am I right?
>multinational tech giants raise their prices every year so mom and pop shops won't have to lower prices in the face of competition
In Florida we need to take Econ our senior year, I assume it's the same for other states, right?
ohh look at me, I am the fingolian that thinks the spanish are white and post first grade algebraic formulas to show people how intelligent i am..
here is what real math looks like
[R] < (Z, Y ) U { ß + µ } (N - ∞ )
you fucking retard
Idiot. I have witnessed this in my own industry. Without the endless supply of cheap labor the company i work for would not be able to get the number of jobs it does. And the more work they get, the more skilled positions they need and there is a shortage of skilled workers so my wages go up. Not to mention we are building hospitals and power plants which will create even more skilled jobs
Dishwashers and cashiers are not proletarians.
Maybe some do, most don't. Why would they volunteer to pay taxes?
It hurts black people. You aren't racist are you, user?
That literally makes no sense.
The only thing you're describing is growing population. But let me guess, you're still worried about overpopulation?
So what are they? Do we need them at all? If we do need them, they are legitimate workers, i.e., proletariat. If we don't need them, then why the fuck would we want immigrants to do those jobs?
>Pic related is all you need to know
Mexicans come here, get paid low wage in dollars, and send money back home Where the dollar is worth much more.
SAGE SAGE SAGE
pro tip: If OP don't bother to write a single sentence, it's probably a SLIDE.
honestly i dont mind mexicans, i am a white man but I work construction and all i can say is they're traditional and hard working people
I don't believe in overpopulation. The problem is too much waste and specialization. More people is a good thing imo.
Cashiers and other unskilled workers do not have "power" in the marxist sense. They are simply filling positions. Anyway the categories marx creates failed to anticipate the "service" economy and billionaires and authoritarian capitalism. He is just outdated.
>amount of people go up
>wake go down
???
Let me repeat, they are working under the precedent of the 1986 amnesty act that says if you worked and paid your taxes, you would be eligible for amnesty if the government did it again.
i.e. the Government has set the record multiple times, that if you come into the country illegally, work and pay your taxes during that, that after a while of the illegal population bloating up high, they will give you amnesty and legalize you because you were "of good moral fiber" and paid your taxes.
This. Mexicans are bros. For the most part.
Do you hate black people?
Do you have any arguments or just pointless rambling? There is nothing inherently good in having more people. In fact, people in small communities tend to be the happiest.
Unskilled workers have all the power in Marxist sense. As long as they are necessary, you should not treat them like shit by lowering their wages to the mud. If they are not necessary, we don't need immigrants.
Stop fucking saying illegal immigrants "work for less" they dont.
The difference is they don't lose a large portion of their wages to taxes so they can ALWAYS out bid legitmate workers.
Like the example above, pablo works for 15 dollars an hour over the 20 dollar an hour native born. He is actually getting the same take home if not slightly more in some cases.
Ask the 4000 former Disney employees. Or the 6000 former Microsoft ones.
It'd be bad either way. They lower the wages, if they don't pay taxes, and they lower the wages, if they work for less. And if they don't work for at all, you'll have to take care of them. Whatever the case, you will end up losing resources for someone you could not care less about.
I know a few cool ones too. Fuck having borders and laws and shit
Unskilled work is a function of capital. It is not strictly "necessary". We are living basically under the same sort of social stratification as we were as Serfs and peasants with less time off. My whole point is that immigrants are not the disease they are a symptom of the disease.
/thread
>Fuck having borders and laws and shit
This.
Yeah desu fuck borders and laws. The entire structure supports international jews. Clinton and Trump flew on the loliexpress.
this, just include pablo's 8 ninos, his wife, mom, dad, aunt, uncle, and any other distant relative
kek
>Americans
>Illegal immigrants
>assumption that all who employ illegal immigrants are paying lower than minimum, which itself is illegal
If you're breaking the law by employing illegals, why the fuck would care about the federal minimum wage?
The rest of this is bait. OP is a brainlet and a faggot.
Where do you live
Yeah fight people who are just as fucked as you instead of fighting the people who fuck you. I benefit from this stupid system and i still hate it.
>lso there is a difference between skilled labor like masonry or HVAC that is just looked at as lower but is still skilled and digging a dig or washing dishes. Americans don't want those jobs as much, and even the skilled labor jobs are having a massive vacuum raising their wages to where a basic welder can make 6 figures, so I am not seeing your point. Majority of Americans today have been put in the mindset that college is the defacto action after colllege and that has lead to a flight from the native population from these jobs.
Americans don't want jobs that have falling wages - amazing.
cis.org
So are you going to post any studies to back up what you're saying...
Can you name a single instance in economics where supply outstripping demand doesn't cause a cascade in negative pricing?
Anything at all.
Ever heard of supply and demand you dense fuck? Jesus fucking christ...
North Carolina
You rat. You are worse than anything
Too far away
Supply and demand only works with a limited resource but jobs keep getting created dummy. Wages like oil prices and mortgages are determined by the elite via speculation and cronyism and it is all to keep the poor serving the rich
For what did you want to fuck or something?
You're a moron, have them steal an ID, or buy a stolen one. When they get caught don't pay them. But make sure the onus is on them to get the id and not yourself.
I mean I wouldn't hire them anyways. Especially for flooring. But whatever. I did flooring for the better part of a decade before finance. 2005 = 25$ an hour, 2010 = 12 an hour. Fuck that shit, and on top of it competing with people that will work for nothing - no thanks
No I was gonna fuck borders and laws all over u senpai
Flooring is for idiots. Learn a real skill bro.
It isn't just about minimum, it's about lowering the general market price for labor. That sounds beneficial until you realize this lowering in price is made up for via increased tax spending, creating a subsidized labor market paid for, in part, by those laborers who have had their wage values decreased.
Its another numale larps as a sociopath episode.
>175189232
I work in finance now. Also it was a family tradition. Well not anymore...
Next time you want a 10th century stellazzo in tile that isn't 2ft of center and looks like a nigger with down syndrome thank yourself for replacing people like myself so everyone can have the same 12x12 white porcelain that pops up the second a crack arrives.
you don't have to report the legal status of an employee especially if they are contract work.
You do have to report your expenses in wages, which would be important.
Supply and demand only refers to how a commodity or service is priced. High demand, low supply higher prices.
It does not refer to the finite nature of the product. Adding more people may, or may not, affect prices. This does not answer OP's question.
I often wonder if people that do these sort of mental gymnastics consider places in the country that are still vastly majority white.
I guess that white people in Montana are willing to clean hotels and wash dishes, but as soon as they move to Texas, they aren't, right? There is some kind of mind-control-beam on the state line.
KYS
>he is so new he doesn't know how to greentext
Shame. I would have enjoyed it
This.
Can you imagine how Pope Francis felt at that point...? I mean, I know he leans left but that Bolivian monkey is literally retarded.
>It does not refer to the finite nature of the product. Adding more people may, or may not, affect prices. This does not answer OP's question.
This is easily the most retarded post outside of ops original post. The whole point of pricing reflects scarcity.
This is also the entire point economies use futures to price things. If the world listened to people like you we would be having grain shortages once a week.