This is a thread for the discussion of anti-capitalist nationalism. >Are you Marxists No we are not Marxists, Marxism calls for the elimination of the nation state. >So what's the difference between socialist-nationalism and Marxism? We seek to preserve the nation. Capitalism inevitably leads to the destruction of borders and national sovereignty. Capitalists wish to bring in more and more foreigners so they can get cheap labor. They also outsource industry to nations like China.
Welcome: Strasserists National Bolsheviks Fascists Distributists Falange National Syndicalists National Socialists Juchists Jamahiriya Ba'athists Peronists Anyone who is interested in revolutionary nationalism.
>No we are not Marxists, Marxism calls for the elimination of the nation state. Just as a point, Marxism calls for the elimination of states not nations
Yes and no. Some socialist nationalist factions were in fact factions of the national socialist party. However others have their own distinct nature. I don't see much of a difference. You can't have a nation without a state.
Leo Hill
Any of you guys have a Jucheist fascination like me? Especially after the recent summit I started looking into them and the country is just interesting to me, it has a weirdly pleasing aesthetic about it.
I love Juche and Kim Jong Un is one of my hero's. The most recent episode of the daily shoah did an entire episode about it where Enoch was advocating white Juche. Hopefully we can arrange an alliance with these wonderful people sometime in the future. youtube.com/watch?v=pB2RiwPgH3U
In a way. Although there's a few more nuances than that depending on the ideology. If you're referring to Strasserism specifically you could say that's the case.
Camden Nelson
>I don't see much of a difference. You can't have a nation without a state. Historically cultural continuity mattered more, the effective elimination of the various celts as nations of britain coincides with the development of britain as a nation state so to speak
I can understand what you're saying but the point of this thread is that the community is the foundation of the nation and the family is the foundation of the community. You can't have a whole without the sum of it's parts. Humans naturally create these structures for various reasons including defense and self organization. The reason the Anarchists lost in Spain is because they didn't understand the value of these larger social structures. Not that I would have wanted them to win anyway. Although I would have preferred if Jose Antonio was the victor as opposed to Franco.
Sounds interesting; only the most nationalistic NEETS get the NEETBUX
Austin Foster
Well simply giving out welfare isn't the basis for our socialism. The basis of our socialism is community service, national pride and the removal of parasitic elements within society, most of which tend to be big business. We also seek to empower the family unit and bring prosperity on a communal level.
Colton Ramirez
The Celts should have fought for their own sovereign state harder.
Andrew Reyes
The Celts lost because they didn't move beyond the localized community into the national community like the Romans did. A town of farmers is never going to be an empire consistent of many towns and cities.
Adam Wright
Basically what I'm saying is that each social unit builds on the next. The family being the most basic, moving up to the community and finally to the nation.
North Korea has a masterful national aesthetic, like the Soviets. Too bad their people are starving, like the Soviets.
Adrian Howard
Most of their starvation is the result of globalist blockades. If the Western nations are successful in their project we will all be under a globalist dictatorship similar to something out of brave new world. We may have a lot of frills and fancy consumer products but we've traded our national identity and sovereignty for these shiny things. I'd rather whites have a slightly lower standard of living and survive as a race as opposed to everyone having lots of nice "things" in exchange for the destruction of all of the beautiful and unique cultures around the world. The Norks may be poor but at least they've maintained their purity and national identity unlike 95% of the rest of the world. That is something to be admired. Hopefully Trump takes a few tips from Kim Jong Un. The liberal media tends to hate him for admiring dictators but it just makes me like him more. I hope he goes through with his plans for annual military parades like he was talking about. youtube.com/watch?v=ADN0H6MREHA
>They've maintained their purity and national identity unlike 95% of the rest of the world. That is something to be admired. Agreed. >slightly lower standard of living >slightly Unless you believe in the "NK is a utopia and the people being poor is imperialist propaganda" meme (and if you have any evidence for this I'd love to read it), these people are starving. We send them free food just to stop them all from dying, as does China. Same thing as in Mao's Great Leap Forward: it turns out collective ownership is a really shitty way to organize a farm economy.
I'd gladly give up my TV and smartphone for something greater, but a man has to feed his family.
>slightly I was referring to us, not them. The entire idea of Juche is Autarky. It's hard to have autarky when you're a tiny mountainous country that is unable to trade with the rest of the world. However, in a country like the United States, I think Autarky would be quite achievable. Trumps policies on trade seem to be proving that we don't need the rest of the world to make goods for us. We're perfectly capable of surviving on our own with our vast natural resources. At this point it's just a matter of revitalizing industry back home, although that might not even be an issue in the future since the industrial age is ending and the digital age is in it's infancy. >Unless you believe in the "NK is a utopia and the people being poor is imperialist propaganda" meme (and if you have any evidence for this I'd love to read it), these people are starving. We send them free food just to stop them all from dying, as does China. Same thing as in Mao's Great Leap Forward: it turns out collective ownership is a really shitty way to organize a farm economy. Well the last major famine was back in the 90's. I don't fall for the meme that NK is a utopia. With regards to collective ownership, I'm not a fan of top down collectivization, however I am a fan of bottom up collectivization. I think that markets are important in solving the economic calculation problem, however I think that there are better alternatives to pure private ownership of property. Communities should band together to form cooperative industries that can sustainably compete within a larger market setting. Large monoplies need to be broken up and nationalized. Smaller family owned businesses are fine. I guess you could somewhat call me a center left libertarian in the economic sense while calling me a hard fascist in the social sense.
Josiah Hughes
We tried that in the 50's and it quickly degenerated into the "cultural revolution" of the 1960's. Good times create weak men and weak men create hard times as we see today.
Logan Taylor
Dude the government fucks up everything they touch.
Matthew Ward
i'm gonna eat you.
Jordan Price
See: Although, I do agree with you. I'm more free market, with govt. oversight then they were. But they did a lot of great things. youtube.com/watch?v=1FUZFy9Nd9s
That's the opposite of what I was saying. Your argument would be valid if I was advocating a complete command economy. I'm advocating a mixed economy with some regulations on the higher level but mostly cooperation and autonomy on the lower level.
Tyler Jackson
Cozy. But what happens to my business I worked hard to build? Do I have to share my wealth with people who did nothing?
Robert Walker
No we tried globalism not nationalism we whored our self’s out to the world. America first fuck the rest. The Western Hemisphere is ours.
Jonathan Taylor
>Govt fucks up everything >Best military in the world Choose one.
We have a mixed economy and look how that’s worked out. Massive bubbles. Inflation! We need to be American first without anyone. Steel made in America for our tanks. Pigs for our people. Fuck the world. It’s time to make this count.
Small businesses aren't a problem. If you want to run your factory that's fine. The point is to transition into socialism without the types of purges you saw in the soviet union. The only kinds of business owners that would be removed would be the kinds lobbying and trying to hijack the government, think of businesses like Google, Facebook, Big oil and big defense contractors who lobby for more foreign intervention. Instead of killing everyone who's a member of the "petty bourgeoisie" (excuse the Marxist terminology) we'd be better off encouraging more collectivized businesses to enter the free market through worker owned cooperatives. I'd also favor those cooperatives being registered into a guild system that trains people to become master tradesmen within the workforce with more monetary incentives depending on how far they move up within their respective ranks. This is similar to the Strasserite ideal.
No. NatSocs reject wealth redistribution. That's Marxism. NatSoc encourages passing wealth and estates down to your posterity. Just asks that your labor you used to earn that wealth was done in the best interest of your volk.
Hierarchy plus money, solves everything. Govt. is a mess because it is running on a failed system. A system that neither the private sector, nor the military uses. Two work, one doesnt. Why?
Regulation isn't the problem, it's who controls the regulation and what regulations are in place. It's like saying an action itself is bad when in reality it depends on the action being taken. Right now monopolies control our economy. The system I advocate would get rid of those monopolies and actually create the conditions for an actual free market to thrive. Free markets always get squashed under capitalism because big business hates the idea of the free market. Big business would rather have an environment where they can continue to produce shit products without having to compete with anyone else. That's why they've hijacked our government. I propose we take our government back from these interests. Many of which are Jewish.
Kayden Edwards
I also really like Proudhon and the idea of mutualist markets without removing the state.
I cannot tell if this is le subversion or just dumb
Colton Sanchez
I once met a Jew at a bar who offered me a job making 80k per year but I never followed up on it because I'll never work for a Jew who I know will stab me in the back. Every Jew I've met has been a filthy backstabbing heeb.
Nathaniel Baker
Sounds like stalinism. How original
Dylan Bailey
Read what I've said. It's about the most high IQ ideology you can have and is one of the biggest redpills even though most are unwilling to swallow it.
Jayden Butler
>Social Nationalism So basically National Socialism?
Charles Garcia
In an area where people can travel across the world and will stick their dick in anything that walks it is hard to maintain continuity without an authority enforcing it. Its just pragmatism.
David Perez
Strasserism is one brand of it. It's the community coming together as a social and economic unit to build a better state.
Jacob Howard
It's you who's dumb Pajeet.
Camden Price
Funny thing is, if a dude fucked 1000 chicks you would be applauding him and calling him an alpha. I think you are just jealous that we actually get laid and you don't. Get on the keto diet and do some exercise. Get some therapy to you function with your autism and maybe youll find a pathetic fat anime girl with a stinky pussy.
Brandon Martin
you are going to have to provide more context for this. Nazbol is against business ownership, though not unequal distributions of wealth, provided that the inequality is a result of work not just ownership. If you are a manager you will get more than a baseline worker, however you will not own the business. The workers will collectively own it.
Because I have no control over my government. If I was dictator of the U.S. all Jews would be expelled to Israel, we would have military parades every 4th of July, families and communities would be given subsidies to form worker owned socialist businesses and a national militia system would be created where everyone is required to own a firearm and train at least once a month.
Xavier Cox
>canadian Hows the immigration going?
Ayden Davis
Now you are just splitting hairs. Its National Socialism.
Jacob Walker
Not bad, not bad at all. >If I was dictator of the U.S. all Jews would be expelled to Israel, we would have military parades every 4th of July Couldn't agree more. >families and communities would be given subsidies to form worker owned socialist businesses meh. I'd be fine with that at the state level, to a degree. I'm more concerned with automation, right now tbqh
>national militia system would be created where everyone is required to own a firearm and train at least once a month. Couldnt agree more. I'd just add, that I want a mandatory service for all men. 2-4 years and when you finish your service, you get to go home with all your shit. Vest, Helmet, Rife, Sidearm etc.
National Socialism is one branch of social nationalism. However the entire umbrella contains ideologies that generally lean slightly to the left of national socialism as it is known in it's modern contemporary context. >meh. I'd be fine with that at the state level, to a degree. I'm more concerned with automation, right now tbqh Automation is important too. With 3D printing technology on the rise I think that if you were to establish a neo-distributist system you'd have to include some form of localized workshop manufacturing and I think 3D printing could be the solution to some of those problems. I think 3D printers will be the workshops of yesterday once the bugs in the technology are worked out.
Parker Hill
A thread full of uneducated, underachieving "useful idiots".. seems like most of /pol at this point lol.
Social nationalism is not an umbrella term. National Socialism is the umbrella term, or maybe even left wing nationalism, though hitler managed to ruin it. Insisting on "social nationalism" is just strange and anachronistic semantics
Asher Bell
Anyone got links to the works of Antoun Saadeh? The old English SSNP site doesn't give much.
What would you call all of the ideologies I listed? I use the term "social nationalism" but if you can think of a better term feel free. I say this with no antagonism.
Jayden Adams
No I wouldn't, promiscuity is a cancer on society regardless of who's engaging in it.
Jaxon Wood
Realistically like I said the only umbrella term worth using is national socialism. Thats why its best to specify ideologies because having Hitlerism as the name for national socialism is like having Hilary Clinton's policies become the standard for democratic socialism. The only other thing to use is "left wing nationalism" which makes people uncomfortable as a lot of really cucked civnats are called left wing nationalists. So really just call yourself a specific ideology, umbrella terms are completely useless.
It seems like semantics to me. With that said, while I'd consider myself a national socialist and use the term in most contemporary circles, I feel like the term has been deluded by larping capitalists who think that NatSoc is simply capitalism with authoritarian characteristics.
Grayson Green
>left wing nationalism Third position =/= Left wing fren
Jaxon Davis
Its not semantics, is more pragmatic than anything else. People who fly the nazi flag are rarely incredibly socialist, and are often ok with capitalism if there were no jews, as though another group just wouldnt take their place. Just look at the dudes with the swasitka unironically shilling for capitalism and private property on Jow Forums. So you cant use that. Social nationalism is not fooling anyone. Lefties will immediately see the connection, and right wingers will look at the term as just chickening out. National socialism SHOULD be the umbrella term, but realistically it cant be used as such. So just using a specific ideology name is the best. Its just what we have to work with.
Alexander Nguyen
Third position is useless. It doesnt really solve any of the issues in capitalism.
Camden Sanders
You make some good points but nobody is going to know what the fuck "Peronism" "Strasserism" or "National Bolshevism" is, etc... etc... In the end it doesn't really matter what we call ourselves since street activism seems to be dead. The goal should be to get /ourguys/ running in elections. They can call themselves republicans for all I care so long as they push for our ideals. Basically actions speak louder than words and we will remain irrelevant so long as we don't have people within positions of power, no matter what we call ourselves.
Nathaniel Hughes
Also, if we did have people running we should run on stopping illegal immigration and improving relations with ideologically similar nations such as Syria, Iran, Russia and North Korea. Those nations are the light keeping our movement alive in the darkness that is global liberalism.
Easton Rivera
>you make some good points but nobody is going to know what the fuck "Peronism" "Strasserism" or "National Bolshevism" is, etc... etc... People will know exactly what you are depending on what material you put out.
> The goal should be to get /ourguys/ running in elections. They can call themselves republicans for all I care so long as they push for our ideals. Basically actions speak louder than words and we will remain irrelevant so long as we don't have people within positions of power, no matter what we call ourselves. You are never going to get this without electoral reform, and america is never going to get this because you are obsessed with the idea of states. You are a failed state >Also, if we did have people running we should run on stopping illegal immigration and improving relations with ideologically similar nations such as Syria, Iran, Russia and North Korea. Those nations are the light keeping our movement alive in the darkness that is global liberalism. Not going to happen, the voting blocks for the main parties will not allow this. The best thing that you could do is encourage nationalistic and protectionist candidates, but you are essentially just crossing your fingers.
Kevin Robinson
How not? Considering it's opposed to capitalism, I'd say it acts to solve those issues. Either way, if we're including Fascism in the umbrella term of "National Socialism," or "Social Nationalism" as OP put it, that umbrella term must include the third position, and so can't only be described as "Left wing."
Jeremiah Morris
There is no flaws with capitalism. You're just a faggot that wants gibs for nothing.
Nicholas Taylor
Exactly, all these youtube educated, pot head, chronic underachievers complaining about living a shit life. The people with the least always pray for some revolt and "revolution".. useful idiots in the words of Yuri Bezmenov.
What is mounting student debt, wealth inequality, decreasing median household incomes, rampant immigration and inadequate public infrastructure? I guess they arent problems just quirks
Jonathan Brown
>you just want shit for nothing >not understanding that capitalism =/= earning your keep >not understanding that capitalism =/= earning more when you work more >not understanding that socialism =/= getting things for free
