How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage...

Your pic is implying that the demand is increasing rather than the supply decreasing. The supply is still increasing, just not fast enough. I wonder why? Where does the demand come from? Does it have something to do with 3rd world immigration, and Obama care forcing millions of poor people into being covered? How is the supply and demand even calculated? Is it calculated based on the amount of people that have insurance coverage? Assuming that spike from 2010 to 2015 was the result of Obama care. Without that, the gap would have remained rather stable right? Ignoring the predictive part that is trying to imply it will go off the rails. in the next 5 years.

don't worry brah.

I'm sure theres lot of refugee doctors eager to help the USA.

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>How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage?
Supply of doctors will contract.
Price (and profitability, assuming that supply of doctors contracting is all that happens) of medical services will increase due to contracting supply.
More workers will be attracted to the field.
Supply of doctors will increase, exerting downward pressure on price of medical services.

Invisible hand of the market.

>AMA spends decades actively slowing the school-to-clinical pipeline, protracting miserable working conditions and reducing short term pay for younger would-be-doctors, perpetuating a cycle of depression and exhaustion

>Why does no one want to be a doctor?

Stop taking 10 years to train them. Stop making them pay 100s of thousands of dollars for this education.
Not really a hard solution. 10 years is obscene, cut the filler shit, every degree should have the filler cut.

Funnily enough, the UK is starting to recruit heavily from ex-forces and in particular ex-special forces personel. It's still on a trial run kind of basis, but the results so far have been ace. Dedicated 35yo squaddies make for perfect trainee doctors.

Jow Forums probably already knows that 65% of trainee doctors in the UK are women after a huge and very dumb drive to recruit more token representation got carried away. The results are catastrophic at the SpR level when women fuck off to have kids, leaving Hospital At Night provisions complete fucked, and male paki locums rubbing their hands together printing money covering the gaps. It is now as profitable to stall your career at the Specialist GP / SpR level and workk as a gap-filling temp as it is to move onto Consultant rank.

Why not just not agree to work that many hours?

What are they going to, drag you into work at gunpoint?

The kinds of people who become doctors are the kinds of people who will put in those hours, but implying that it's mandatory is silly. If you can't resist the pressure then it might FEEL mandatory, but "fuck off, I'm not doing it" is perfectly lawful.

I think the NHS is unique. I’ve lived in Texas my whole life and it is very difficult for people who don’t live in cities to go to the doctor. They often have to either drive a couple hours or be careflighted in cases of emergency. I’ve known people who have had to be helicoptered to a city hospital several hours away to get a decent quality of care. I think cities will be fine as doctors want to live there, but in more rural areas many people do not have access to healthcare even now. I expect this to only get worse because new doctors want to go into the high status specialties like surgery rather than medical specialties like internal medicine or family practice. That’s a different topic but it is one reason why I think rural areas will have a big problem in the next decade. In some major cities we have as many ultra specialized surgeons as we do primary care providers which obviously makes no fucking sense. But I can’t blame the doctors for wanting to make more money by cutting people up.
The supply keeps increasing because medical schools are still training and graduating doctors, but it’s not keeping pace with population increase. And yes, I’m sure that immigration plays a part in it. But as boomers continue to age, the demand for healthcare will keep increasing at a steep rate since older people require more healthcare. Medical schools need to put through around 3500 more doctors per year to keep up with these projections which is a massive increase. However it’s certainly possible the study is flawed. Projections this far into the future are always suspicious.

>disagree to work long hours
>replaced by another doctor who will
>end up in debt forever working at a minute-clinic

The pending physician shortage is a meme.

Mid-level providers such as PAs and Nurse Practitioners will begin to provide much of the routine care such as checkups and medication management (under a physician's supervision). Family practice and internal medicine doctors will take on more of a leadership role leading teams of mid-level providers and specialists will continue doing what they do. Physician pay will stay high and everyone wins.

Why can't people just live healthy lives?

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Ban sugar and processed food from grocery stores and restaurants.

People don’t get sick when they aren’t enflamed and bloated all the time. Sugar shortens your lifespan.

It's the culture. Consultants share a "survivor's" bond for having gone through what amounts to a no-fire special forces programme, and view it as a rights of passage sort of deal. They look down on SHOs and SpRs who only work the contract hours, it really isn't the done thing. Junior Doctors were exempted from the European Working Directive limits, for example, due to this very reason. 95% of a consultant's prestige is the respect of their colleagues. This isn;t going to change soon.

I was bright enough to be a doctor, but brighter still to reseach it before I embarked on the course, and settled for financial management in healthcare instead. Much more reasonable hours, and you can still say you work in Cancer Prevention.

your second sentence, also even with all that they still only license a limited amount of physicians a year

Diversity is why many fields are suffering.
I’d never let a female or minority doctor do more than give me a routine check up. God help anybody living in a building designed by female engineers.

>>disagree to work long hours
>>replaced by another doctor who will
Not much of a shortage then, is it?

If you want the big bucks you've got to work the big shifts. Otherwise just go be a local GP in the suburbs. You could even go out to some rural country town and get the comfy family doctor experience while picking up government subsidies for working in buttfuck nowhere. You'll still earn professional-level salary, and also have a normal working life.

>be top of your field specialist in massive inner city hospital
>people literally travelling the world to come and have you save their fucking life with experimental first-in-kind surgery
>one of 300 people around the world who has even been trained in the surgery
If you're capable of getting to that position in the first place, you're NOT capable of just telling these people to fuck off when they are literally waiting for you to save their life. That's the price you pay for your millions.

Ah, yes, sorry. You're probably correct there. Rural healthcare is in decline even in the UK, and of course, it is much easier to move to see a specialist here than in the States.

Import them from Somalia

The American Medical Association is the reason there's a shortage in the first place.

>Being able to fill existing positions is the same thing as being able to meet rising demand

It’s hard to make enough money in rural areas for a young doctor fresh out of school with tons of loans.

Is the culture of >muh special NHS preventing it from actually making good changes?

I guess they should have focused on bringing in actual doctors and engineers instead of somali dindus and afghan gibmes

We don't. We stop importing shit skins and accept medicine intrinsically has to favor quality over quantity.
If you want more qualified physicians, subsidize high IQ individuals. I had to drop out due to financial situation and porn addiction. If it wasn't for a stroke of good look with money and overcoming that problem too, I wouldn't have been able to go back to medical school.

>It's the culture.
I completely agree, but insomuch as it's the culture it's not real. Nothing stops people from saying "fuck off" other than the pressure, and lots of people never do even when they should and then burn out. There's no way in hell that the FairWork Commission is going to come down on the hospital's side for firing a doctor for refusing to work literally unlawful hours.

And, like I said, there's more places to work than the massive inner city hospitals.

So long as the countryside is screaming out for local GPs (and the government is shovelling money at them on top of their private sector salaries, which are already high) I have no sympathy for doctors bitching about their working hours. If you can't hack it and are too stupid to get out, then suffer in your jocks for all I care.

>have a surplus of doctors for all positions
>"shortage"

i did a presentation on the topic for a health policy class at uni,
here is a link to the study New England journal of Mad i referenced
nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1111610
i think the plans of action are going to be pay more to import more doctors, this will raise the costs of healthcare cause we will have to pay for more foreign doctors

other modernizing countries will compete with the US for doctors, this will send the cost of medicine to raise sharply in the next decade.

some plans of action in the us are to, make it easier and cheaper to become a doctor, this will result in the quality of healthcare the US receives to go down

as of now there are laws that restrict nurses from doing things like giving out prescriptions and doing other simple procedures, some of these laws may change to shift the burden of healthcare duties to less skilled nurses that are still considered capable of preforming those duties
check out the article

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Pretty straight forward. Drop the excessive requirements for general practitioners and accept more people. Your family doctor has to be knowledgeable, sure, but they honestly do no require a good chunk of the pre-requisites that they're subjected to. MCATs look for the perfect boyfriend, but they're leaving plenty of perfectly adequate people behind.

I know a lot of very intelligent and well trained nurses and ambulance service guys that couldn't get into medical school if they tried because of simple mistakes or lost pre-requisite opportunities in high school.

Robotics.

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Probably better they didn’t. I can’t imagine many foreign immigrants being able to survive US medical school, even with a previous medical education. I’m sure there would be exceptions but the USMLE Step tests routinely fuck over very intelligent people who are native English speakers.

Take responsibility for your own health. I wouldn't trust a glorified drug pusher to begin with.

>Trade association responsible for the licensing of new doctors projects there won't be enough doctors
What, are they going to run out of ink or stamps?

Did you actually read though the 64 pages of crap you linked? Under IV Demand modeling, it seems to imply the expanded insurance coverage has something to do with it, at least in the past studies. They are definitely using that as an element when determining demand. I'm thinking the whole expanding insurance coverage to the bottom 20% of people in America is going to have an effect on determining healthcare demand.

Just think of the social aspects of that too. If you were poor before, you would only go to the doctor if you really needed to. But if it's covered more, people will go for stupid reasons. I'm from Canada, and I've seen people go to the doctor for a sore throat. I think this is nothing less than government mandates causing artificial spikes in the demand. The normal institutions simply cant' and weren't designed to deal with that. It will take a long time for it to correct itself and for the supply to catch up. The main point the study seems to argue is that aging populations and population growth are to blame. But those are predictable and supply usually doesn't fall behind that much when it comes to something as predictable as that. It has to be something unpredictable like forcing 40 million people into healthcare coverage.

It's more a numbers game: the larger your catchment area, the more attention you get, and more funding. So rural hospitals are shutting up shop, their funding redirected to big city hospitals.

The best place to move to as a health toruist (so to type) is the North East. They get all manner of special funding as their catchment area is "NHS ideal". The worst place to get long term ill is probably Cornwall, too small a population, too "close" to London. Also, don't get long term ill in London, the hospitals are running on fumes, and Hospital Acquired Diseases are off the charts, thank you Open Borders.

So, yeah, if Mum or Dad is looking a bit ropey, encourage them to sell up and move to Newcastle Upon Tyne. You'll be extending their lives by at least a decade.

>How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage
cease treatment for those who can't pay

> not understanding what shortage means
Once you reach a certain level of skill set, you set the terms

>How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage?
By hiring unqualified nogs from third world shitholes who will work for comparatively dirt cheap, further destroying the job market and any incentive for people who actually want to become doctors.

A lot of “healthcare” today is actually “health maintenance” or “preventive medicine” and is not actually providing care for the ill. It is all algorithm directed and I could train a high school graduate to do it in 6 months. It is silly to have physicians with almost a decade of education doing this.

the MCATs are predictors of being actually able to pass the medical school exams. people who dont score well are unlikely to even pass medical school, thus, schools wont admit them because having people drop out of their program risks their accreditation, and furthermore, is terrible for the student who then has a ton of loans they have no way to pay.

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>How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage?
money

Oh sure. Yet it's something silly like "well, we had to do even longer hours, buck up" that is perhaps more powerful than being sensible at that stage of the game. It's that Yorkshireman sketch where they all brag about the hardships of their youth sort of deal:
youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

Uma delicia

Total bullshit for general practice medicine and you know it.

Maybe in America. The UK has only just opened up our own Proton Therapy centre. Full on robotic surgery is way beyond NHS infrastructure for the time being.

Big shifts doesn't translate to big bucks in 3rd world public hospitals. Doctors work there for a year before moving to a private clinic is pretty common.

This is why patients complain about 2-3 hours waiting time at hospitals there.

This user gets it. NP's and PA's are going to have to pick up most of the slack.

Being a doctor sounds like an ass job. I feel like the AMA must be fucking over all the doctors. Bucket of crabs.

Planet Earth has not enough productivity to feed retired retarded boomers

doctors is the smallest of probems

Hell, i have seen people come to the ER for a broken finger nail or a paper cut. Not even kidding.

And FUCK THE GOVERNMENT.

Free market would have solved this issue.

1 Doctor for 400 people is already suicidal. Should be at least 4 times that.

>Why don’t people want to become doctors? Is it the stress? Ungodly working hours? 10+ years of extremely difficult education? $400k+ in loans? Fear of being sued? Jeez, I wonder why no one wants to become a doctor any more.

LMAO literally everyone wants to be a doctor.

>Stress
Up to individual doctors to make their own schedule. Some doctors work a lot because they can aim for 1M$ a year

>10+ years of extremely difficult education
Yeah no. It's easier than most STEM undergrads. You only need a working memory. It's 5 years. the other 4 years are basically supervised practice.

>$400k+ in loans?
Paid back in 2 years. The average doctor slacks off and earns 300k.

When i was in the Med School only 40% of doctors joined the AMA. It is less than half that now. I don’t honestly know how they can claim to represent doctors. COngress let them copyright the ICD codes so the get a kick back every time those codes are used. This has been the source of like 90% of their funding for 2 decades. They should be forced to change their name to something less deceptive.

>How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage

Abolish the licensing scheme propped up by the AMA for all medical professionals. Allow proven experience, proof of work, and private credentialing to dictate whether or not someone should be employed, not 12yr+ of superfluous mandatory State schooling.

>How do we address the upcoming doctor shortage?
Why do we need to address it? There will be less doctors, so going to the doctor will be (even more) expensive. That's it.

A quick an easy fix for all of this is to attack the American diet that the corrupt FDA and other entities have instilled into the brains of millions of Americans.

First and foremost, sugar is the primary cause of all disease. Companies inject unnecessary amounts of fructose corn syrup and other sugars into their products for longevity's sake.

Next, you have an overabundance of carbs in the American diet. It is unnecessary.

Now you might be wonder: "What the fuck? What else can we eat then?"

Fat. You can eat fat.

>b-but muh heart dise

Wrong. You have been lied to. The only reason why heart disease AND obesity rates SKYROCKETED almost at the same time in the early 1900's is because manufacturers created Shortening, Margarine, both HEAVY in trans fats, and the diet of the American home was on a WHOPPING six meals a day, divided into Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. Plus that's also roughly around the time when sugar became a staple preservative.

You think saturated fats are bad for you? Think again. The entire war on saturated fats can be attributed to a MARKETING CAMPAIGN. Yes. As with everything else, including cigarettes, lobbyists and advertisement campaigns pushed the market for these UNHEALTHY products to become the staple in every american home. How would they accomplish this? Simple. Create a study on saturated fats, pick a handful out of the hundreds of studies that supports the claim that saturated fats causes heart disease (pro tip, it only does under certain conditions)

Funny enough, those very conditions were an abundance of food, namely carbs and sugar, plus the smoking campaign, and the amount of cortisol that people dealt with in their stressful jobs.

Cardiovascular disease is caused when too many Low density lipoproteins, the bad cholesterol, binds to one another and forms into plaque based on the cortisol, glucose, and insulin levels. High density cholesterol actually cleans your arteries of the plaque caused by low density cholesterol.

cont

Read Paul Stars’ “The Social Transformation of American Medicine”. What modern people don’t know is that during the Civil War they trained far more doctors than what were needed during peace time. The glut of doctors produced decades of “sawbones” that struggled to just feed their families. The medical profession worked hard to overcome that image and it took many decades culminating in the “Golden Era” circa 1960. Stars’ book is worth the read.

It is actually totally easy
>Eugenics
>Forced healthy lifestyle (nutrition, exercising etc.)

Then only few would need doctors.

In the 1880s you could send a few bucks to an address obtained from a match book cover and they would send you the books they thought you should read and your “diploma”.

Cost and fear of being sued.

Yeah I wanted to be a doctor but why get in 500k debt for that?
It's all bullshit. The undergrad degree should be 5 years like architects for doctors. Then you get a master's and you're good.
Why do we need 10 years of residency getting paid slave wage?

>There's enough food to feed everyone on the planet
>Therefor no one is starving

With liberals trying to socialize health care, and the cost and difficulty.... why would someone be dumb enough to become a doctor. There will be no payoff when it gets socialized.

I doubt that will happen. Doctors and the medical associations are far too powerful to allow that to happen. The US is just not equipped to deal with that system. Even Medicare has been a complete disaster, people have to be totally out of touch with reality to expect our government to be able to adequately institute true socialized healthcare.

There is actually a very good reason. During my surgical internship i scrubbed 350 cases and was the “surgeon of record” in 75 operations and that was just in the 7months i scrubbed cases. I spent 5 months managing a 15 bed SICU during which i didn’t scrub. How do you get 3 years experience in 12 months? By working 110 hours a week.

Immigrants make good doctors and nurses. Obamacare failed because lack of support from capitalists politicians

People just need to accept the fact they are going to die someday
I have never gone to the doctor and dont have any intention of ever going in the future

Is that still commonplace? I read that now there are laws that prevent residents from working more than 80 hours per week, though I doubt that hospitals actually follow that. I know surgeons are infamous for undergoing the most rigorous residencies and fellowships but 110 hours a week is absolute insanity. Mistakes from sleep deprivation seem like they would be a given and pose a serious health risk.

Where do you get high dense cholesterol?

From fats.

There's a reason why the keto diet exists. You would think it's some "fad" but in fact it takes advantage of your body's ketosis state. It makes your body run on ketones instead of glucose. That's why you see a lot of fat in the American diet in the 1800's but no sudden increase of heart disease. Not until a hundred years later, when smoking tabacco was the norm, and when there was an abundance of trans fats.

Another lie that the Food industry has sold to you is that you NEED to eat every day.

I have been intermittently fasting for over a month and my health has increased tenfold. I used to have an inflamed shoulder and bicep tendon and I thought my years in martial arts was catching up to me. but it turns out that I was simply not giving my body time enough to divert its energy resources to repairing damaged tissue. I am proud to say that I have healed my inflamed bicep tendon by simply cutting out sugar, fasting for 20 hours every other day, and simply staying on a strict keto diet.

The thing about fasting is that when you don't have food in your stomach, your body no longer needs to worry about dedicating its energy to digesting food. Instead, now your body is focused on producing human growth hormones at a whopping 1000-2000% efficiency. That's fucking right dude. You actually get ripped as fuck when you fast. You just have to do it intermittently in order to keep your gains. Protein supplements literally fucking feed your muscles when you are in a fasted state.

But I digress. Another benefit to fasting is that when you are in a state of ketosis, your body operates on Ketones for energy. Ketones can EASILY bind to your brains neuroreceptors. Your brain operates OPTIMALLY with ketones.

You ever had food coma? That's because you ate way too many carbs in one sitting and now your body is processing all of that glucose. Thank your liver because without it you would die.

Because you lose so much time becoming a doctor. Yes, your income will be very high when you're finally done with your residency, but you've lost so many productive years where you could've made an income, and instead you're racking up a massive debt. I'd say it's smarter to become a plumber out of high school than become a doctor.

In the process of becoming a dermatologist. ROLLING IN DOUGHHH

>having doctors who can pass life-saving knowledge exams is total bullshit

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What was your Step 1 score?

513

We need to socialize medicine before a crisis happens.

This should be of no concern of the government. If there is a shortage, too bad.

Let it crumble
Boomers created this over consuming, throw away culture
Let them die by it
Poor, cold, and alone on the streets
Good riddance

Fuck off. That will make an impending crisis a "right the fuck now" crisis.

Some 15 or 20 years ago they changed things so that after 24 hours you can’t see patients (paper work, dictate charts, etc.). Problem is the same amount of work has to be done so you just make people bust their ass that much harder during the 24 hours. I seriously doubt it has led to greater patient safety.

>513
>300 is the highest score
Impressive.

>how do we address doctor shortage?
Automatization.

Automation. The word is automation.

Atomization might have been the right word in the first place.

You don't need eight years of school to stitch a cut or lance a boil.

The highest score on the new mcat is 528

You can do the same today with high school and college diploma mills. The problem is, people aren't going to hire you with such bullshit credentials.

The main takeaway from all of this is that the American diet is FUCKED.

The food industry wants to make money off of your hunger. So they are going to feed you garbage that will make you hungry again in a few hours. They condition you to eat every waking moment of your life. They get you pumped full of carbs, glucose, fructose, and other sugars. They even convince you that a high fat diet is bad for you, so you AVOID fat like the plague, except, low fat doesn't mean it's good for you. In fact, having a lower cholesterol level makes you nauseous, gives you the shits, and it may even lead to death. Plus, you are ALWAYS going to have high density and low density cholesterol, but the lower your overall levels are, the more low density cholesterol you have over high density. You actually don't have a lot of HDLs to begin with, even more so when you avoid fats altogether.

What I normally do with my diet is this:
I avoid sugar like the fucking plague. It's an actual poison. I may only even reserve sugar to a cheat day and even then I may not have a lot of it. This also means cutting alcohol. Maybe reserving it for cheat days.

I namely eat protein and fats. So chicken, turkey, fish, beef, with lots of olive oil or butter, sometimes I make eggs with cheese.
That's basically it, Just lots of cheese, lots of meat, and lots of butter or oils.

I normally start my day with a bullet coffee.

And when I fast, I typically do it by taking the bullet coffee and sipping on water all day until the next morning when I have my bullet coffee again and then have a large meal around 6pm and might have another meal closer to 8 or 9 pm. And then I fast again until the next day.

I asked about your step 1 score not the MCAT

Oh I haven't taken step1 yet I thought you were talking about mcat.

What are you doing?

Easy... Stop making it so god damn competitive.. And fucking expensive..