what's the equivalent to "völkism" to spaniards? Romania and Italy had the Roman Empire, Germanic nations had Norse and the Proto-germans. What was/is your thing? I don't know much about france either, but I always assumed it was the Fleur de Lis, pre-guillotine times.
I want to hear from the Spanks and Franks what they romanticize
Rome and muh empire. There's a rather strong odinist presence in spain though thanks to claims of visigothic roots but I think volkish culture tends to drift towards callbacks to rome or just typical falangist stuff.
Really? I've never heard of it. It's always just this faceless fascism without the heart, it seems. Or just reverence of Franco. Especially with Frenchies, they just adopt others things or something.
en.wikipedia.org
The whole 800 year gap of occupation with the moors really severed the feeling of deep roots. For a lot of spaniards, I think a sense of culture doesn't really begin till the renaissance period and the age of exploration. But obviously for some that isn't enough, such as that odinist circle... quite the interesting history with them.
>COE is the fourth Odinist/Asatru religious organization in the world to be recognized with official status, after those in Iceland, Norway and Denmark.
As a spaniard I think about this a lot. Ignore the flag, this is a temporary stay till the fall.
why does no one ever notice those are the 5 arrows from the Rothschild coat of arms?
commons.wikimedia.org
Why do you think Spain and France are cucked unlike Italy? They have no clear cultural identity.
Celtiberians left the most entrenched stamp I think. Up in gallicia you find guys in kilts and bagpipes for example. Genetically, we're closest to the celts of the british isles than any other group despite the whole moor thing.
Celtic roman rapebabies.
>le wikipedia article
It's not like I don't know about the pre-roman tribes of Iberia, but generally I've never seen or heard of any spaniards feel a tie with them, and say that that's their roots.
again I'd imagine the Fleur de Lis and the monarchy would serve that purpose. But I don't know the reality.
Not one bit, people are not interested in that as far as I know.
>Romania had Roman Empire
In Spain it's the XV and XVI centuries and in Catalonia it's the middle ages.
Italy is similar to Spain when it comes to cultural identity. And France is far more united than both.
Let's make the poor Romanians happy.
when will you stop LARPing as germans and scandinavians and come home Spaniards
In Galicia they larp as celts, true.
Well, more the XVI and XVII centuries than the XV.
Not at all, you despise Franco and don't tell me otherwise, I see more and more Spaniards trying to forget about him. Meanwhile I see Italians here that are not afraid to make the Roman salute and even miss Uncle Benito. France can be called Neo Algeria, plus it is a country founded on the revolution.
that's a little odd but if that's the case so be it. I always imagined the Völkisch is something ancient. Germanic and Roman seems more ancient to me in comparison to the colonial ages, which is what I'm assuming you're referring to.
Do you feel any ties to the Celtiberians, the Carthaginians, or such?
The visigoths were Arians since the times of the emperor Valens. Around the year 370. So no Odin here.
Yeah galicians are similar to english or scottish people probably because they've been under the muslim rules only for 28 years
Wasn't there a study saying that the Celts from Wales were close to the Spaniards?
Both Franco and Musolini were incompetent and only wanted power and fame for themselves, there were far better and more qualified leaders in their parties. The only thing you need to adore is the Nation, personality cults are for communist faggots.
Not only Romania has the name of the Roman Empire and speak latin while surrounded by slavs, but many Byzantines including Byzantine aristrocratic families left to Wallachia and Moldavia after the Byzantine Empire fell (Eastern Roman Empire) and even ruled there. Nothing wrong with that, Romania is very connected to the Roman Empire. Vlachs live in Greece too and they are descendats of the Roman Empire.
based
Yeah but there is a difference, Mussolini was a military cretin, but he did develop Italian economy to the point that even most politicians today have to admit that he improved our country. Franco is regarded as the one that starved Spain if I'm not wrong, but yeah I do agree, love your country, family and culture.
I think only Italians and Greeks have the right to be heirs of the Romans.
celts lived all over europe
War Memorial to the Division Azul when?
Back in ancient times the peninsula saw many peoples coming and going. Celts, Phoenicians, Greeks, Carthaginians and later Romans and Germanics. Larping as one makes no sense since all of them are part of us. On the other hand people from the middle ages and later periods were the same we are now, so there's more of a connection between us. Italians larping as Romans is stupid since later they got invaded several times by Germans. And Germans larping as Germanics is also absurd since they got raped by Huns and later Slavs.
Celts were settled from Anatolia to Iberia, France to Brtain
Oh alright.
>Italians larping as Romans is stupid since later they got invaded several times by Germans.
Except we are genetically close to them according to studies, since the population didn't get affected that much. Plus our language comes exactly from the same Latin that they spoke.
You are right, Musolini was very good compared to the politicians you have today, but still some people in the Fascist party were better than him and he could have done things better, even economically. People here starved until the 50s and even then food was rationed until the 60s, that's why old people are all manlets.
Germans and Italians both pretty much stayed the same. There was no large Slavic or Hunnic cultural dominance in germany at any point. Their biggest outside influence was the Franks and christianity. Spain is the only one I know with so much change of demographic throughout history, from Celtiberians to Suebi in portugal, visigoths, romans, phoenicians, carthaginians, and more i guess.
i know its a little rarted but hey, here's a query:
if you had to pick an ancient "people", along the lines of you know Romans for italy or Proto-germanics for Germany, what would you pick?
If I were Italian I'd be more proud about the Reingressant era. But if somebody has the right to larp as Romans it's you.
It's not even LARP if you are a descendant of them. Did you also know that the Reinassance was also possible because of the Byzantines that went to Italy after their country fell?
There were many Vlachs in the Byzantine Empire and they were literally the descendats of the first Roman soldiers that estabilished themselves in the Balkans, they have the right too in my opinion. They are also Orthodox like us and like the Eastern Roman Empire.
?Orthodox
then where does the pope live
Romans would make more sense since we speak bastardised Latin. But we were never nothing more than a colony which assimilated so I guess I'd pick the Iberians. I even live in a town which was built over a former Iberian settlement.
Yeah you are kinda right about that.
Celtiberian i assume you mean?
What would a symbol of Celtiberian Volkism be? if you care to attempt it it would be cool
I disagree. Franco did pretty well.
>Did you also know that the Reinassance was also possible because of the Byzantines that went to Italy after their country fell?
Yeah. I've also been told it was thanks to rich merchants having too much free time and money and becoming interested in Ancient times. I don't really know how it went exactly. What I know is Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Botticelli,... are probably the greatest generation of artists the world has ever seen. Da Vinci alone was a genius in all fields and had a very interesting life.
Exactly, the point is that you have to thank the Roman Empire for all of this, let's say it was the last light that the Romans had to offer to Europe.
Northerners larping as Celts, westerners as "frankish" Aragonese, meridionals as medieval Castillians, and there in the south some of us larp as gypsies, others as arabs, others as Tartessians and others as southern castillians.
frogs get in here
Nah, I mean Iberians. The Celts lived in the West, I live in the East. The symbol would be the Lady of Elche or the horse.
True
In what way? You mean during the civil war or after?
You fags don't know the true iberian master race yet.
There's no national identity in Spain as a whole, but many depending on the place. Some spaniards already explained it pretty well like Franco tried to unify this sentiment taking the Golden Age of Spain, meaning the Catholic Kings and the Spanish Empire, but the problem with this are catalonians and basques being quite contrary to Castille and the unification.
I'm sure France has it easier since they're pretty centralist, here we keep hating eachothers
Before Reconquista? It's either Celtiberian or Roman.
Iberians usually LARP only post-reconquista, before that it's whatever.
And hwat about you, Portugal?
I wish some frenchies would come along as well. I've gotten a pretty solid answer from the spaniols. Kinda disappointed there's no love for the celtiberians or other pre-reconquista "themes", but not surprised.
Spain and France usually go "muh catholicism". They have no antiquity to fall back on (both were subjugated Gauls and Basques) and during the middle ages they were run by Germanic nobles. But they were both Catholic powerhouses and "protectors of the faith" at one point.
vuelve al discord maricon
as a germanic I just cant compute that catholicism would be a form of völkism, or the equivelant of it
brainstrain
Reconquista, then the Empire. That's what people care about.
Back then some people would say God is spanish. Being the chosen people of God is an usual form of völkism
Burning heretics and destroying heathens is Iberian culture, we are predisposed to zealotry. It's easy to rile us up in the name of the Lord. We are chill but there is a lot of potential for anger simmering under the surface.
>we are predisposed to zealotry
I like the idea of that a lot, but our peninsula is terribly cucked and the population with it.
At least in spain, I hope the socialists go all out for the next 2 years to see what can happen.
French "völkism" is more centred on the Celts than Pre-Revolutionary France. If i'm not wrong, Spanish "völkism" is about Iberians/Celtiberians.
>They have no clear cultural identity
>coming from a country created during the XIXth century
do you have an example of a group or organization?
Yes before mass immigration , why did they to fuck this great country trough remplacement :(
Terre et Peuple.
Okay, I'm gonna give you an honest answer.
We don't have anything like the volkish thing in Germany. Why? Because the Volkish thing in Germany started as a nationalist/romanticist reaction against Napoleon / The Empire / The Enlightenment. We have nothing of the sort.
I don't know what you guys have in Scandinavia but I am deeply convinced that you larp as Vikings the same way the French larp as Gauls / Asterix & Obelix.
Yours "volkish thing" is different from Germany because you guys fantasise about something that never really quiet existed and... the thing that existed was completely different from what you are now or you have been as a people.
Germans had this idea that things were different up to recently and could be better in the future. Also, this is pretty much correlatable" with Nazism in the 30s.
While the XIX century in Germany was so prone to romanticism and faith in a better future and originated "volkism" and "confidance in the Nation"... here, in Portugal and Spain the XIX century was completely different.
It was a time of bloody civil wars, poverty, loss of empire and even hunger.
While the environment in Germany favoured "volkism" the environment here originated the defeat of our very real volkism which was a fight against "modernism, liberalism, parliamentarism and freemasonry". Which we lost. We lost our empires. The greatest part of our institutions were destroyed. We got nothing.
So, the XIX century for us was not a period of "reconnecting with the past". It was a period of profound defeat and the violent destruction of the past.
I don't even know if you are Celtic, Romanic or Frankish. You have no cultural identity.
I am french , why could not be an race .
Go back to Germany cuck.
French? What is a French? The result of Franks settling in your country and breeding with the local Celto-Romanic population?
I'm pretty sure frogs are mostly of celtic background. Roman records of gaul indicate their barbarism.
Mix of Celt,Roman and german.
Exactly. You are a mix of these.
Other than that:
We here have an official History to be proud of: The discoveries. But always without violence and much tolerance and miscegenation to be proud of the very mixed Brazil.
Of course people feel proud somehow but don't real understand what happened to really proud of it. They just understand that once in the past we were the first in some hard shit we did.
That's a very empty volkism.
The unnoficial History we are proud of is:
1) The Colonial War and the Colonisation of distant countries.
2) Beating the fuck out of Spaniards.
3) The Reconquista.
HOWEVER, the powers that have ruled us since AT LEAST 1834, do not want us to feel proud about it. So, we only get proud of it after having some beers.
Up to the 1950s we were mostly the rural folks we had been for millenia. There is no much space for volkism ALSO because life had not really changed much. Also, Salazar "empowered" the virtues of a small village Catholic Portugal that the elites had fought since 1834 so Salazar and quiet rural Catholic living was both our volkism but also our real life for most - and it wasn't necessarily or oftern a good life either. So the romantic aspect of that is probably stronger today than in those times.
Any question, ask me.
The learned, more upper class and Traditional Portuguese men are proud of our based History:
1) Celtic Warriors
2) Roman Civilisation
3) The bad ass Reconquista
4) The expansion - which is not the same as the faggot version of the "discoveries" and how we fought to keep our independence and expand against all odds;
5) The fight for Traditionalism, our true institutions and our nobility of the King D. Miguel. (Although most nobles since 1834 have been so against this D. Miguel);
6) Salazar as a bulkwark against "modernism";
7) The colonial war which we won in the most important territories in a time in which it was fashionable to believe no European power could win a guerrilla war against it (after Algeria and VietnamS)
there is one you fucking mutt. and dont touch falange like you touched nat soc please aswell as italo fascism
8) How we mannaged to avoid civil war in the 70s and grow into a normal European countries during the 80s and 90s.
9) Other shit such as how the Timorese still love us and other colonised peoples. Or how our language is somewhat important and how Brazil is a nice place if you have enough money.
10) Bullfighting / The Football team / How nice and beautiful our country is...
What?
>We don't have anything like the volkish thing in Germany
Tell me the meaning of this.
Are you stupid or what?
Just imagine that our middle ages was a continuous fight against moors and Jews were actually a sizable proportion of our population and played both ways and never fought so were usually despised by both Catholics and moslems.
Now imagine fighting all the time for God.
Then expell them all and conquer their lands.
Our *very alive until the XIX century liberalism* middle ages and "volkism" were very real.
Why would we larp as whatever when we were day after day in the action for God? Slaying moors, Jews, and conquering new territories and peoples for God?
What can be more addictive than to conquer the world and destroy your enemies to please God?
That was our entire middle ages and basically the modern period too until 1834 here.
But it continued in some form in Africa up to 1974.
Both the Portuguese and Spaniards today are bored as hell: Why have we nobody to kill and nothing to conquer in the name of the Lord as we used to?
Why larp with volkism?
>We don't have anything like the volkish thing in Germany. Why? Because the Volkish thing in Germany started as a nationalist/romanticist reaction against Napoleon / The Empire / The Enlightenment.
>Germans had this idea that things were different up to recently and could be better in the future. Also, this is pretty much correlatable" with Nazism in the 30s.
>While the XIX century in Germany was so prone to romanticism and faith in a better future and originated "volkism" and "confidance in the Nation"... here, in Portugal and Spain the XIX century was completely different.
>It was a time of bloody civil wars, poverty, loss of empire and even hunger.
>While the environment in Germany favoured "volkism" the environment here originated the defeat of our very real volkism which was a fight against "modernism, liberalism, parliamentarism and freemasonry". Which we lost. We lost our empires. The greatest part of our institutions were destroyed. We got nothing.
>So, the XIX century for us was not a period of "reconnecting with the past". It was a period of profound defeat and the violent destruction of the past.
Try read the shit you're criticising first.
No you retard, you are a German, and as such you should be quiet.
Dude, you're the German in which you want to fit into the German narrative.
I'm telling you our History is very different from Germany. We have nothing to do with Germany, we don't even fit into their idealised XIX century ideas because our XIX century was shit.
I'm doning answering to you.
What? Ok bye krautcuck.
Yes, and it's not just the Welsh. It's standard for all Insular Celts. The reason is because, in spite of the absolute bullshit we were fed for decades prior to the early 2000s, the Celts did NOT originate in Central Europe but originated along the Atlantic facade, as the Greeks correctly wrote.
Frankly, I blame the Romans because they used the term "Celt" promiscuously and idiot academics just ran with the assumption that Celts weren't chiefly an Atlantic people.
We had a german 88 in a square in Madrid, until the new commie goverment removed it.
>Both the Portuguese and Spaniards today are bored as hell: Why have we nobody to kill and nothing to conquer in the name of the Lord as we used to?
This, we need to channel the wrath of God once more and cleanse the filth from our soil. For us there is no greater honor than to cast our enemies into hellfire.
>17 posts by this
Kys roman mutt, nobody cares about your multiracial empire.
Just stop to say that Algeria was won in term of military , just gouvernement give up the teritory.
Ok thanks for the answer. It's not as much a LARP as it is the yearning for something believed to be the true Scandinavian, at least up here. Christianity was thrust upon norway and Protestantism has always been a feigned religion here.
I'm not saying there aren't christians, but that the conversion never fully succeeded. Back in the mission days they would fine and arrest people who didn't learn a quota of bible verses in a set amount of time, and there has never been an enemy to unite the people under a christian banner like Iberia has had. The majority of norway is agnostic at best and atheist at worst, Islam being the fastest growing religion and the protestant church ever falling. You can see the liberalist agenda the protestant church has nowadays, and the agnostic right-winger looking for an organization will go to those like AFA, whilst the agnostic brainwashed welfarers go to Islam. Catholicism is also on the rise
but that is only because of polish immigrants.
I'm not sure the history of portugal and christianity, but I am convinced it's not at all
the same as norway, where bloody crusade
after bloody crusade only embittered the populace, or that's my theory. I don't mind christians but one must face the facts.
I'm not an idiot? we're trying to cross a culture-clash on a Uzbeki Painintg board here. It's hard for me to relate something as the völkisch movement, based on reconnecting with ancient
roots, to something so recent as catholics and
spanish empire. that is recent in comparison.
not to say some of the Åsatru/odinist shit isn't cringey. however I will never understand why
countries like Spain, france and England attach themselves to a Germanic pagan faith.
I will try to explain it as best as possible.
The Iberian peninsula is so varied in climates that always produce different cultures, I will explain the most pronounced cultural blocks.
in the south of Spain, there is a popular agrarian culture and a folklore of leisure and constant social relations, strongly Mediterranean that has not changed since the time of the Tartessos
In the west of Spain there is a more "Central European" culture and emphasizes urban life, in which the values of money predominate
In the center of Spain, there is a "nor-mediterranean" culture with a strong emphasis on the traditional, I think there is a certain level of agrarian culture as well. but the center has suffered acculturation from the west, which has led to the predominance of westernizing cultural elements in the main Castilian cities.
In the north, there is a more "German-Celtic" culture, that is, more Germanic and closer to what we could call the Germanic "Völkisch", with a strong agrarian culture, which unlike other parts, in which the agrarian culture is commonly associated with manorialism, in the north is represented by the particular partnerships in which agriculture and livestock is carried out.
between these great cultural blocks there is a connecting thread that makes the country that of the
these are the racial union, which binds the people to a herd-gregarious mentality, and a historical-cultural union, that of the majority agrarian culture in the country.
Due to the first, both Catholicism first, and different hegemonic ideological positions afterwards, have been able to unite the country at different times. be this the monarchical Catholicism of the Trastamara, the Spanish communism (of strong feminist and agrarian component especially in the south), later the national syndicalism and mainly the Francoist national-Catholicism...
(So you know, if you're an introvert like me, Spain is not your favorite country)
Based on this, if you are trying to find something close to "Völkisch" there, you can go to the north, or take the common agrarian culture that embodies the hole peninsula, but it don't have ties to ancient pagan tribes, it has ties with the "volk" or "popular" history of Spain as a country
*In the east of Spain there is a more "Central European" culture and emphasizes urban life, in which the values of money predominate*
Sorry, I was using a translator to write faster
I'm not an expert, but I've venture to say that "Germanic-Celtuc" culture in the north has nothing whatever to do with Germanics and more (if not everything) to do with Celtic pastoralism. I have made some unserious attempts at looking into just what influence the Suebi had on the northwest of Iberia and it has always surprised me how fundamentally irrelevant they are as far as any sort of cultural legacy is concerned.
You are totally right, but I was trying to connect this with the theme we are discussing (Völkisch agrarian ideals) so I said it that way, to make easier to create connections
>1 post by this id
>balkanoid nigger enslaved by turks
>claiming Dacia Traiana was never a part of Roman Empire
Stay mad slavshit, you aren't latin, and if you didn't fuck up Dalmatia big time with your shitty slavic folk, you would have spoken Istro-Romanian. But slavs were retarded. Have fun uniting in a gay orgy with hungary, since I've seen some threads claiming "muh hungarian pride" from horvaths.
Stay mad, you immigrated to south-east europe and screwed the linguistic composition
Ah, OK. My mistake in that case.
In any case, dydh dâ a Kernow, kosin an Spaynyer ha Portyngalyas.
not even franco liked those fanatics he just had to cope with all the right-winged ideologies to mantain power who cares maybe rothchilds founded them or maybe its a coincidence
The yoke and arrows are a symbol of the catholic kings, they had nothing to do with the Rothchilds
15th century
looks more like grain and less like arrows in the mural
Even after Christianity many kings still recognized themselves as descendants of Odin even if only to form a national founding myth (especially among the anglo-saxons)
Some baguette was trying to tell me the Capetians were from Turkey. It was literally, "NOUS SOMMES TROJANS ET MERDE!'
>Implying Italians aren't the same
