Catholic/Orthodox Christianity Thread

This image destroys atheists. Thank you come again

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>Aussie
Oh you sweet poor deluded jew-slave.

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> there is nothing (((they))) hate more than the Roman Catholic Church.
Do you actually believe that? The pope is obviously shilling for shekels. (((They))) love the RCC because they fully control it.

I have a hypothetical question for Christians. If babies go to heaven directly if they die, would it not make sense for one person to risk hell and go around killing babies because he would be doing them a favor. That baby murdering guy would be better than Jesus in doing good deeds because he will be taking the pain of eternity of hell and gifting eternity in heaven to babies. I am in no way advocating killing babies and this is a hypothetical question.

> brutally tortured and killed
> Christians
pick one

Since you're on Jow Forums, you should know that calling yourself something, doesn't make you so. Nobody who tortures or murders is a follower of Jesus.

Can anyone answer this -->

That's a question for utilitarians, not Christians...

There is logic behind your reasoning, but the ends do not justify the means.

You're not saving anyone by sending people already on the course for Heaven to Heaven earlier. There's nothing good in killing a righteous man and sending him to Heaven earlier. It's only a good deed to CHANGE someone's path TO that of righteousness. So converting someone or convincing them to stop sinning is completely different than simply shortening someone's lifespan.

I consider myself christian just want to ask why do you want to associate yourselves with groups like Catholics or Orthodox or with any group really?

Protestants who believe in faith alone (sola fide) think all you need to do is accept Jesus and then you can do whatever you want and nothing matters. It leads to degeneracy and eventually atheism, which is what we see happening to the West. If you don't have to obey the Bible, what's the fucking point?

Everyone is on a path to heaven you say? How's that? I thought bad people went to hell

>institution

There is a lot of fuckery in the Vatican and the Orthodox priesthood as well as the Protestant one too. Before the televised msm the sermons at the end would include (((social commentary))). Prior to the Russian revolution the priesthood would have said to the Russian populace not to revolt as the next life would be better. Despite that well meaning priests do charity.

"The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo"

- Marx

>“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
Fellowship with other Christians is a vital part of living your faith.

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Okay. Then we could send babies to heaven using peaceful methods like CO gas emissions. It's like falling into sleep.

NOTE: This is a hypothetical question for Christians. I am in no way advocating for baby murder. Personally, I think baby killers should be publicly hung.

I didn't say that, I was referring specifically to infants.

Well shit if Marx said it then it must be true.

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>Nobody who tortures or murders is a follower of Jesus
AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Imagine actually believing this. You're deluded. Read a book other than the Bible every now and again my friend. Christians have killed more white people than any other religion on this planet.

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Marx is surely not the most revered by any stretch of the imagination on Jow Forums. Having said that I somewhat agree with that passage.

Firstly, unbaptised babies do not go to heaven.
Any method of taking a human life is not "peaceful" just because it's painless. Christians value (human) life intrinsically, not just because of some flimsy aversion to pain/suffering.

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You're assuming that you can trick God. The Bible is a guide, not a law book.

Reading and studying the Bible, personal interpretation, self reflection and my own journey, personal spiritualism and experience, these are all important concepts, but a foundation like the Church carries 2000 years of study, billions of lifetimes invested and some of the greater scholarly minds through those times, a whole lot of people with whole lot more brains than I have. How could I turn away from that guidance? What level of pride and borderline self-worship do I need to maintain to say "Yeah I can broach this unfathomably massive spiritual world by my own better than all of them".

Translation:
>I don't actually care what God says but instead I personally calculate how certain beliefs will affect the outside world or my own personal life and adjust my doctrine accordingly

If you reject salvation by faith alone/free grace, you're rejecting the Bible. Full stop.

Matthew 15:6-9
>Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
>This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
>But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Look if you just want a "Traditionalist Social Club" or something and you can find that by going to sit in a pew where a bunch of robed liars who like to wear their collars backwards spend an hour going through some dry, tired moral lesson, then fine enough for you. But don't call yourself a Christian because you're not.

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What about baptized babies?

God should not have left loopholes in his teachings. And if bible were really law then the world would be a better place.

I started coming around in my first year of university.
Returned to faith in my second year. I was baptised as a child, mostly because of tradition, both mom and dad don't actually believe in God.

>advocate.com/religion/2018/6/16/pope-francis-same-sex-couples-are-not-families
We shall hope that he get's back on the right way but I can already see the outcry, same as with Benedict XVI, saying that he's to conservative.

Luther wanted to remove the epistle of James from the canon along with the deuterocanonicals because it destroyed sola fide so hard.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther's_canon#Hebrews,_James,_Jude_and_Revelation

>What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

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For your flag and words I can recognize who speak through you.

But Catholics and Orthodox differentiate somehow right? And they both have, like you say, lifetimes invested yet they come to different result so now a person has to chose who's results to follow.

How the Catholic Church built Western civilization

youtu.be/m5siHd1P5zk

Atheists and anti-catholics get absolutely btfo

I'm not the devil. I am a normal agnostic human being asking a question.

>But Catholics and Orthodox differentiate somehow right?
Not as much as you might think. The differences really aren't that large, both agree on 95% of theology. The main issues are the filoque, the primacy of the Pope and how they've slightly drifted apart over the millennium they've been split for, mariology is a big one. The Catholic Church recognizes sacraments performed by the Orthodox church as valid.

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Why did God make nature so cruel to animals? They aren't guilty of anything.

Already discussed by Living a full life already IS good, otherwise God would not have created it that way. There's nothing that needs to be changed.

The only reason you think your "solution" is utilitarian is because you don't understand that fact.

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Marx can and will get you mocked if you actually use him as a source.
For good reasons.

I am not saying that anything needs to be changed nor did I speak a word about righteous men.

We don't know what babies will grow up to be like. They could become satanists, heathens, feminists, etc. The happiness and satisfaction that parents get or anything else should not be put over a baptized baby's chance to eternal life in HEAVEN.

If James 2 teaches works salvation then the Bible has contradictions in it and you should throw the whole thing in the trash.

If you're reading the Bible and you have a disputed doctrine where you have two or three vaguely worded verses to support A, and an absolute mountain of crystal clear verses to support B, an honest person will go "yeah I'm probably just misunderstanding those handful of verses that seem to teach A" and conclude the B is the correct doctrine.

A dishonest person (See: 95% of Catholics on Jow Forums) will have their mind already made up independent of what the Bible actually says and will then scour for any verse they can find to support whatever they want the Bible to say and are completely, totally immune to any verses that show how they're interpreting that wrong.

A great example would be how Calvinists take a few vague verses in Romans 8 about the word "Predestinate" being used and then go off to the races while ignoring the mountains that say we have free will and can choose what we do and where we go.

Catholics do the exact same thing with James 2.

Now you tell me, which verse would an honest person say gives a clearer presentation of salvation?

Romans 4:1-8
>What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
>For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
>For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
>Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
>But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
>Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
>Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
>Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

or

James 2:20
>faith without works is dead

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Of course you are not. You are just a proxy.

>John 10:35
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_in_Judaism#Scriptural_requirements
connect. the. dots.

>If you're reading the Bible and you have a disputed doctrine
It's not really disputed. Jesus says the path is narrow and few find it. He says you must obey his commandments. He says he will turn away those whose works were insufficient

> “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Sola fide is unbiblical and goes against everything Jesus taught.

>“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

>“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

>“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

>“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

He says over and over you're judged on your actions, your fruit.

Bro are you actually retarded?

> if babies go to heaven lets just kill all babies haha gotcha stupid kristians1!1!!

Fuck man just stop posting or use a different "argument" if you can even call it that

Yeah we don't have children for our own happiness/satisfaction etc (although that may happen), children are a RESPONSIBILITY we take on. You still can't seem to understand the intrinsic GOODNESS of existence/life. This is your brain on materialism/nihilism.

Nice satanic trips

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Let's do some more!

John 20:31
>But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 6:28-29
>Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
>Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:35-40
>And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
>But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
>All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
>For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
>And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
>And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47-50
>Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
>I am that bread of life.
>Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
>This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

John 11:25-26
>Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
>And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 5:24
>Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

or

James 2:20
>Faith without works is dead

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Fug, time to go pray the rosary.

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>Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
>I am that bread of life.
>Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
>This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
This contradicts your argument because he's talking about the Eucharist being necessary here, not "just believe in me bro lol"

But is the ephemeral goodness of life compared to the treasures of heaven?

That user has an irrefutable point. Sending a baptized baby directly to heaven is the greatest good possible in Christianity and the pious man would face eternity hell without thinking twice if that meant the instant salvation of all.

To people who actually want to go to heaven the Biblical way and don't want to make their salvation dependent on eating crackers or the fact some pedophile sprinkled water on their head as an infant.

youtube.com/watch?v=Sj3TvlcVUzo

youtube.com/watch?v=I0TldH5urIY

youtube.com/watch?v=d-MOOMaYfjw

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It's not the greatest good though, living a saintly life in the service of the Lord, converting many heathens, denying temptation, inspiring the people, and THEN going to heaven, would objectively be better. Who are you to deny this from someone?

God would have just created us without free will already in heaven, if your argument was true.

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>living a saintly life in the service of the Lord, converting many heathens, denying temptation, inspiring the people, and THEN going to heaven, would objectively be better
The bible says otherwise if you read the Sermon on the Mount or Paul's warning against holding the world in high regard, and it's not guaranteed they would live such a life anyway.

>God would have just created us without free will already in heaven, if your argument was true.
That's what God would do perhaps, but the question is from the point of view of a Christian.

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Thats a good meme.

>not guaranteed they would live such a life anyway.
God clearly thinks it's worth giving humanity a chance. You should too.

Maybe he's giving us the chance to do that instead, who can claim to know the mind of God?

Sending the babies back to him seems to be the safest bet regardless

Why are Latins so retarded?

You are saved by faith, but faith produces fruit which you see in works. If you can't see fruit, then you shouldn't be assured. Therefore works are the assurance of our saving faith.

Orthodox never had a problem with this. Papists and protties still just asspained over terminology because >muh reformation, >muh counter-reformation

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I'm saying that the definition of a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus.
Jesus taught to love your neighbor and that murdering others is a sin, so anyone who tortures or murders is by definition not a Christian.
> Being this dense

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If this was your impression after reading the bible, I suggest speaking with your local exorcist.

That's no refutation user

Protestants have always been known as Jews who eat bacon.
I hate the (((new mass)))
The church has always been infiltrated by (((judas))) who was in charge of the money.

>>inb4 because it's the truth
>That wont cut it bucko.
This is stupidity of the highest level. If you actually believed that Christianity is true in every sense of the world, but then rejected it anyway, you're insane.

I accepted my Lord and Savior, and his infinite mercy many years ago, or so I thought.

A wise man once wrote that one can not come to Christ without an understanding of evil.

This rung true, as I spent 12 years in the hell that is atheism and agnosticism, and all the evils of violence, hatred, drug/alcohol abuse, a until I had gained enough knowledge of evil to satiate a twisted intellect.

Fundamentally, your question is illogical. It is that of an emotional simpleton. Christianity does not logically fall simply because your ancestors were killed.

Doubtless, we could go to and fro on whether who instigated the conflict, but note that the conquest of the north was one of the most peaceful in the history of our species. People conquer, and get conquered.

The norse religions don't fall simply because you repeatedly raped France.

The Truth cuts both ways.

It is logic.

God is the most logical.

No. Murder goes against God's will therefore it's wrong. A legitimate Christians wouldn't even be able to commit your idea, because God won't let him. Expect to get run over by a truck on your way to the maternity ward or something.

>definition of a Christian
Didn't stop white Christians from murdering other white Christians now did it?
>Jesus taught to love your neighbor
If only he had taught to love your own.

We can't really answer, since nobody knows how the afterlife works.
But saying that a man killing babies being better than Jesus basically tells me everything I need to know about you.

Guilt by association is not logical.
Because people disregard what Jesus taught, yet fly under the banner of our Lord and Savior, does not mean our Lord and Savior is wrong.

>the conquest of the north was one of the most peaceful in the history of our species

"Eyvind Kinnrifi, who was captured, tied to a table, and tortured to death in a most horrible of ways. A brazier filled with red - hot coals was placed on his stomach until his body, it is said, literally burst open."

VERY PEACEFUL

Catholics aren't Christian

>but faith produces fruit which you see in works.

The Bible says that you're saved even if you don't have works. Your assurance is based on whether you believe on Christ as your only hope of Heaven or not.

Titus 1:2
>In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

Romans 10:8-13
>But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
>That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
>For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
>For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
>For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
>For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 4:5
>But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

If you're looking to yourself and your "fruits" you're not trusting Jesus to actually save you and when you die you're going to burn in hell.

Luke 18:10-14
>Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
>The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
>I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
>And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
>I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

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Interesting question. You and I both know that our Lord has banned Murder, however much I have contemplated murdering such people as Paedophiles, we can't.

Fundamentally killing babies is illogical, as it would eradicate the human species. Question answered in satisfaction?

Also, it is telling how, say, this man:
seems to know your intentions. And how he misrepresents you completely.

Deus Vult!

> Didn't stop white Christians from murdering other white Christians now did it?
Again, look at the definition of a Christian and see whether the people who CLAIMED to be Christian really were so...

You bring up one instance as if the entirety of the history surrounding it hinges upon it.
Very emotional, indeed.

Would you like me to count how many people were skinned alive in the name of paganism, or how many women were needlessly raped, or how many resources you stole from countries all over Europe?

FORGIVE.

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>I spent 12 years in the hell that is atheism and agnosticism, and all the evils of violence, hatred, drug/alcohol abuse
>blaming philosophical positions for your overindulgence and lack of willpower

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>T-THAT'S JUST ONE INSTANCE
There are countless.

Do you honestly wonder why i reject Christianity so strongly? Knowing the history of my country, why wouldn't i? It would be illogical not to.

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The assurance of your salvation is that God promised that he will give you eternal life if you believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ will all your heart, and he cannot lie. If you're looking to your works for assurance I begin to doubt whether you've trusted in Christ with ALL your heart.

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No, I do not wonder at all why you reject Christianity so strongly. I never eluded to that. In fact, I have made it very clear that I am fully aware of how emotionally laden all of your rhetoric is. You haven't spoken any dialectic at all thus far. I point out your logical fallacies, and you breeze past them as if nothing has happened. An ignorant simpleton, much like your forefathers.

>An ignorant simpleton, much like your forefathers.
And there it is. That's all i really needed to know. Show your flag, burger.

Galatians 3:28 basically means that God does not discriminate between niggers, kikes, spics or greasers, we are all equally worthless

I told you that you were an ignorant simpleton, did I not?

"They say they can smell your intentions... all my friends are heathens, take it slow..." - 21 pilots, Christian band.

Christ forgives, and I genuinely do not care. Have a good one, dude.

>Galatians 3:28 basically means that God does not discriminate between niggers, kikes, spics or greasers, we are all equally worthless
Before him, in heaven.

Raised religious all my life but only started praying nightly/taking it seriously in my mid 20's. I'm just grateful to have my family and the rest is all a bonus. When I learned how Satanic our govt. and elites are it made me realize they know shit we don't are convinced fuckface (the devil) is legit so that only tells me the big man is very real as well. Trust in God, anons. Don't try sounding smarter/cooler than your peers by denying him.

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Let me add that I value our Norse history immensely. However, I value that of God more. God is above race. Race, nationality, and all such things matter, but God matters above all.

God split the world into nations, remember that.

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Indeed, only through sufficient knowledge of evil can one come to Christ.

Deus Vult!

>Indeed, only through sufficient knowledge of evil can one come to Christ. Deus Vult!

Amen my brother

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I don't understand why people and the church care so much about the specifics of everything. Having such a specific view the Trinity. The weird attempts at making it scientific... I just don't get it.
It just seems... so needlessly complicated and dumb.