How do we save the EU?
Basic starting points:
- a more clear and pointed nativist policy (expulsion of all non-European migrants, and discouragement of non-European immigration even by legal means)
- systematic decentralisation (in user's words, from yesterday, a Europe-wide Switzerland)
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>How do we save the EU?
We don't. Let it die desu senpai.
The only thing that could save the EU would be a massive cut back of the bureaucratic apparatus.
The EU bureaucracy has taken on a life of its own and its only purpose is to feed the tens of thousands of political parasites it genrates every year.
This unchecked growth is the tumor that eats Europe and it needs to be removed.
That's funny coming from a Greek. Turkey is going to rape you without EU clout.
user, please don't spout nonsense if you have no idea about the situation between us and roachland.
They have their own issues to deal with.
And it's because of NATO they don't start shit, not the EU.
In fact, EU is likely to side with them, since most of the EU heavy indsutry is in roachland now.
Turkey is also in NATO and they're already behaving as a frenemy. Erdogan is clearly signalling a return to quasi-imperialist foreign policy for Turkey. And Greece is in its purported "sphere of influence".
NATO is mostly the US, and the US is signalling a return to a more isolationist foreign policy. (Outside their perennial "interest" in Israel.)
And a strong Turkey that's turned on NATO and is flirting with Russia and Iran is against the interests of Israel.
Which is why the kikes dropped their alliance with the turks and are now playing friends with us.
Also, natgas in Cyprus, being mined by US and Isreaeli oil companies, and the roaches are non too happy about it since they think they should get half.
Also, despite the economy bullshit, we sill mantain one of the largest militaries in Europe, it's one of the reasons we went bankrupt in the first place.
The whole point of the EU is to destroy Europe.
Whatever you do, don't count on the United States. We don't have your back anymore.
And then there's the constant low-intensity war the roaches are fighting with the Kurds in the southeast, their invasion in Syria and Iraq and the fact the Kurd part got into their parliament.
The roaches don't have beef with us because of some stupid historical nonsense, they got beef with us because there's probably tons of natgas in the eastern med and we have an island there that makes that natgas ours.
That can change.
I don't think depending too much on the US for security is wise. Their society is much too polarised. What if a civil war starts in the US? Who is going to protect Greece then? Your military may be large for the size of your country, but it's small compared to Turkey's. You need an alliance of some sort in the region. At the very least, if not a Europe-wide alliance, certainly a Balkan centred one since none of the countries in the region take kindly to Turkey's ambitions. Reforming the EU is a more pragmatic approach than trying to forge a new Byzantine league or something akin to it. Just a heads-up.
With Erdogan's increased powers, he will have more freedom to act against those (minor) issues in Turkey's eastern region.
>The roaches don't have beef with us because of some stupid historical nonsense,
Never claimed that. They have a beef with your because you're right next door.
what's your source for those starting points? did you get permission? article 13 man
With the current balance of power we are confident we can stop the turks long enough for the UN or the US to intervene.
A few more years of bankruptcy and that might change, but you need to remember, modern wars are not wars of anihilation.
Or you think the US will tell them 'Whatever, keep going' if they invade?
That said, we are building alliances with Egypt and Israel. Alliances centered around natural gas and how to get it into Europe. It's in the best interest of the US and the EU to keep it safe around here, if they want to decrease the EU's reliance on russian natgas.
They might scream they want our islands and stuff, but they don't, there's natural gas, that's what it's all about. And untill our cuck politicians decide to take advantage of the natgas in the eastern med, nothing will happen.
I hope based Italy will finally change this union for the better, they've really impressed me recently
Godspeed
let it die, Switzerland is the last european country left
That's not how article 13 works. You should read less Anglophone/plebbitor propaganda. The one reason they're making a fuss about it is because that site depends on linking to other sites. Article 13 imposes restrictions on linking and reposting copyrighted material. It's a boon for private property rights (and intellectual rights are private property, regardless of what the commies are saying). It's no accident that most people opposed to it are left-wing nuts.
Article 13 does not affect 'free use' of copyrighted material.
>It's in the best interest of the US and the EU to keep it safe around here, if they want to decrease the EU's reliance on russian natgas.
So you agree that the EU is beneficial to Greece then?
>but they don't, there's natural gas
The distinction is immaterial. No one ever went to war for land for the sake of acquiring land. It was always competition for resources. In the past countries wanted more land because land itself was a valuable resource (for agriculture, for example, and the population itself is also a resource). Natural gas, land - same shit. More capital.
Yes, Italy gives us a lot of legwork. If Merkel falls down too, we might actually manage to succeed in reforming the EU in a truly pro-European direction, instead of the "globalist" mess that it is right now.
The EU is not beneficial. But Europe itself is.
To explain, I think a looser EU would be ideal, an alliance rather than a continent wide goverment.
In geopolitics though, Europe, with the EU or not, would rather not rely only on the Ruskies for all their natgas needs. That's in the best interest of NATO, the EU and individual countries in Europe.
There's natgas in Cyprus, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon and recently spotted south of Crete.
The natgas in the eastern med is said that it might be one of the biggest deposits in the world, but there's been no searches there yet to confirm.
Even without the natgas from Crete and the easter Med, we are still the main route for all the natgas from Israel to get into Europe as long as the roaches play so hostile to the West.
Incidentally, the roaches are getting closer to Russia recently.
Things are always a bit more complicated then they seem user.
Alliances can be easily broken. Countries have been forging and braking alliances for centuries. It's harder to stab each other in the back when you're more closely integrated with each other. Without a Europe-wide confederation of some sort, what's to stop countries in Europe that are not in the vicinity of Turkey to cut a deal with them and screw you over? Even as is, the EU is already locked in a defect-defect equilibrium. An even looser alliance will further incentivise backstabbing.
Countries only have interests, not allies.
Think about it. We can make this a non-zero-sum game.
They've been fucking us over for years, always siding with the roaches or playing deaf every time there's a serious dispute. Remember, half of the german industry has it's factories in Turkey. But now the roaches are going all anti-west and siding with Russia and Iran so the europeans are starting to realise they shouldn't support them anymore.
But as I said, we are not in danger of the roaches, with the current balance of power at least.
Wars are not free, and any potential conflict, even with the best case senario militarily for them, is simply not worth the cost.
Maybe a few years down the line if we still haven't bought new ships and planes the roaches might see it as worth the cost involved, but not atm.
Also, you must keep in mind that there's bigger stakes always, even ones that you and I can't consider.
pls buy
Exactly what I was saying. The EU is sufficiently loose that different countries in it can easily take advantage of others without repercussions, especially the bigger ones like Germany (which is essentially treating it as a neocolonial project). Also, part of the deals with Turkey were pushed by the UK precisely so as to destabilise the EU. Perfidious Albion doing perfidious, Albion things.
In the end it's your choice, but if this is the course Greece will pick, it will pay dearly for it down the line.
That's now how you do business. You're supossed to give us the first generation ones for free, then offer us an upgrade package. You're still making tons by FOS and parts sales.
Or give us some instead of returning the interest profits, like with the Belharra ships we wanna get when they're out.
The problem with the EU is that it started as a free trade zone and ended up becoming a continetal goverment that gets to shove shit like article 13 down our throats without individual countries being able to do anything about it.
Also, the EU killed the local economies of many smaller countries. Do you know we used to have heavy indutry, cars, appliances etc? All dead when we joined.
The EU became way too big for it's own good.
But I do agree that the current Greece can't survive out of it. Maybe a few years earlier, but not now.
We barely have enough money to build some for ourselves, there's no way we could just give them away
step.1 destroy the eu
step.2 create a economic agreement between old eustates
step.3 create an armed european force to fend of refugees
step.4 assassinate every corrupt (left wing) politican
Consolidate more power for an unelected government
Bring in more refugees from a land stuck in the stone age and try to force member nations to take them
Ban memes
Silly user, once a country buys a plane, even in small numbers, it's very very likely to get more of it later on, as keeping multiple types of fighter planes is super expensive. Also, old planes cost more to mantain and you'll be making tons on parts sales.
That's why it's really important to keep your machines in other countries's militaries, even if you have to give them away for free.
By the way, if you were smart, you would offer us a nice upgrade package for our Mirages, together with the old ones you just took out of service and a deal on future rafale purchases.
The EU is not a continental government. It's halfway between an international organisation and a true government. Many of those problems with it stem from it being such a half-assed project. I am staunchly on the side of saving it, i.e. reforming in such a way that it serves the interests of Europeans. Of course, we can also ditch the effort entirely. I for one live in a country that is in a pretty safe position and would not be affected by a fall of the EU as much as other countries in more sensitive regions.
But in the end, we'd be back to old game rules. I know you don't like this argument since it was also made by the current dysfunctional EU in order to justify its existence (relying on an equivocation of what the EU is with what it should be), but it is also true: a disunited Europe is easily manipulated by external powers. It's not for nothing that uniting Europe has been a dream for many since Immanuel Kant, if not earlier. We can retain the perks of a diverse continent by aiming for a Switzerland-inspired decentralised form of organisation, which would encourage friendly competition between EU states, while at the same time avoiding its downsides (like devastating wars). And please don't bring up NATO (i.e. the US) again. It's a dead horse. The Americans want out of Europe since they have too much on their plates to deal with back home.
(See my post above about Article 13. You fell for leftist propaganda.)
Dumb leaf.
I know that, we just can't afford to give them away right now, even if we wanted to
Mirages are dank and we should have kept the line going longer, I bet we would have had some success in countries that bought the gripen if we just put some new sensors in em
I brought article 13 and example of bullshit forced down our throats without choice.
The US, despite what they say, still have geopolitical interests in Europe. They don't want to see Russia exert even more influence in Europe.
And there's always economic interests, like the US companies mining natgas in Cyprus and being interested in the Crete reserves.
As for what you said, there's a contradiction there. A 'Switzerland' EU won't be tight enough to not be controlled by external powers and solve internal differences.
But a tight EU will force us to be European first and our nationality second.
Honestly, both would be better than what we currently have. Maybe the EU needs to go back to how it was in the 80s, before it became the bloated mess of bureaucracy it is now.
The Germans are also partly to blame, if they didn't try to control the EU for their own interests maybe it wouldn't be so shit today.
We initially bought the Mirage2K because the US wouldn't sell us stand-off weapons for the f-16.
And then you fucks dropped support for it to push the Rafale.
The EU is a cancer that did pretty much the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do, let it die and then when the dust settles we might think about something to replace it.
I am out for today, but I'll be back: youtube.com
We just couldn't afford to keep modernizing two platforms, especially if the second one didn't sell
You have to understand, our military budget was cut hard from 91 onwards, yet we still had to modernize
Even then, we're still using VABs from the 60s which we're finally getting around to replacing