Brit/pol/ - Materialist hyper-consumerism edition

hey now, you're in Ulster, get your game on, go play

>anime
like I said, mental disease

Do you ever think about how strange it is that we have evolved to be able to see the universe we live in?

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youtu.be/4zLOsTpVSSE

>pick up any household item
>made in China

You need to go away. I suspect back to rebbit.

Au contraire mon ami, anime is the supermacy of the hegelian spirit over the material. That's why anime is fascist.

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that's nihilism not materialism

How would a comprehensive FTA with the US or China will truly benefit the UK? If goods can be manufactured in China, where costs are considerably cheaper and shipped tariff free to the UK, then that is what will happen,destroying manufacturing in the UK. If the US service industry sees opportunities in the UK via an FTA, it will swallow up UK business (including the NHS) in the blink of an eye.

How do you even expect the UK to extract a fair sided trade deal when all it has to offer is access to the UK's 65m people, when they are asking for access to 1.39bn people. In trade, size matters, and the UK is much smaller in both demographic and economic size - 2015's GDP figures for China and the US were $21Trn and $17Trn - the UK at $2.5Trn is a relative minnow and will find that the deal will undoubtedly benefit the bigger party more.

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it's materialism ergo nihilism

Nothing unreal exists.

cease

explain self awareness

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A Supreme Being.

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ok good boy
I thought you were a materialist cuck for a minute

no

>Wirral drug dealers sold ecstasy to children aged 12
>didn't even diddle them
Wtf?! What a waste of mollied up baby poon

>repostan
‘No deal would be DEVASTATING for EU’ HUNGARY RAGES AT BRUSSELS FOR BREXIT PUNISHMENT
express.co.uk/news/politics/979601/Brexit-news-no-deal-Brexit-avoided-Peter-Szijjarto-Theresa-May-Donald-Tusk-Brexit-summit

>The Hungarian official said: “If the EU is not able to come to an agreement with the UK then it will end up with a further decrease in its competitiveness, which has already suffered in recent years.

>“That is obvious if you look at the US, China, India, and other emerging countries.

>“If we are not able to come to a deal with a country that represents 14 per cent – or one seventh – of our economy, that would lead to a situation that would be very devastating for the EU.”

>Mr Szijjarto called on Brussels directly to halt its punishment of the UK for voting to leave the bitter bloc, pointing to the harm it would cause in the process. He said: “I am especially against all kinds of steps to punish the British that would cause harm to the EU in the process.”

>When questioned on why EU negotiators are taking such an obstructionist stance in relation to the UK, Mr Szijjarto argued that some EU officials are still personally insulted by the 2016 referendum result.

>He said: “There are still many people in Brussels – without mentioning names – who look at the Brexit decision as a personal insult against them

>However the EU official argued that the referendum result could have been avoided in the first place, if Brussels had displayed a willingness to listen to British concerns.

Yes, your migrant quotas (which are now dead in the water, with Poland and Italy leading the move to tell the EU to go fuck itself) cost you your entire garbage union. You could have done all of this more slowly, more sanely, but you were too stupid, and it's cost you EVERYTHING

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well yeah
I'm not saying materialism = nihilism im saying that post is nihilism derived from materialism

Shit I didn't mean to start Brit/pol/ - Philosophy I only use words like faustian and hegelian to sound like a big brained nibba. Where is Preusse when you need him?

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The existence of an exterior influence on the Universe seems, to me, logically irresistible. I've always quite liked this quote:

>The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.

Even if it wasn't surely said by who it is claimed.

>Destroying manufacturing in the UK

You haven't a clue, have you?

A significant portion of Chinese manufacturing and resource extraction i. Africa is entirely dependent on capital from UK private banking institutions. Nobody likes to admit it but we can sink all of you motherfuckers if we want.

>How on earth can anyone expect countries on the other side of the world to make up for restricted trading with Europe in our backyard?

> before joining the single market in 1993, the UK's exports to the EU grew at a faster rate than major economies such as the US, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Norway, South Africa and Brazil.

> But since joining, export growth from those countries to the EU has now overtaken that of the UK's.

civitas.org.uk/pdf/insideradvantage.pdf

Funny how all these countries outside the "single market" have overtaken the UK for trade with the single market since we've joined. We will end up with a FTA with the EU, so I don't even believe this argument is worth perusing. They're already facing rebellion from within their ranks for threatening the economic stability of member states for no other reason than to "punish" Britain.

We'll also be back in control of our trade policy and can make it benefit Britain and Britain alone. Not to mention regaining our seat at the WTO so we can shape global trade policy.

my post is bills derived from the letter box

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>Bank of America is moving a chunk of its investment banking operations to Paris in preparation for Brexit

Now go and look at the amount that said they were going to do the same versus that didn't do shit. I chose my words carefully: "just about every bank".

>1000s of jobs left
source

>Its almost like 8 out of 10 of our largest trade partners are in the SM
Well, why the fuck WOULDN'T they be when you're not allowed to trade with otehrs you fucking idiot. We used to have a great tarde operation with NZ and lamb but as soon as we were in the EU it's "no can do". Did they suffer? Did they fuck. They traded with Asia.

Is this fuck marry kill?

Congratulations to UK rap, grime artist as well as poet. The one and only Akala, on achieving his honours at Oxford B University. He’s now Dr Akala..This is the only guy from the UK music scene or politics who I idolise. If you don’t know about him get to know. Not many people in the world is realer than him. Get to know this guy if you don’t and listen to him speak. He will change your mindset.

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very nice quote
whenever scientists talk about the 5th dimension I just think 'isn't that just the plane our minds exist on'?

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Just to add to this here's world GDP and the EU's position in it. I love how this site desperately tried to find a positive and was left with "well, it's complex".

fullfact.org/europe/eu-has-shrunk-percentage-world-economy/

321

Fuck off son

>honours
>dr akala
wot

afro-centrist headcase

>88

It's always fun watching this silly cunt on Question Time. If he can't shoehorn race into the topic he says "I don't really have an opinion on that".

"Colour" me surprised.

Friendly reminder that it was the UK that pushed for sanctions on member states.

>However the EU official argued that the referendum result could have been avoided in the first place, if Brussels had displayed a willingness to listen to British concerns.

This kind of narrative always forgets the context. For years before, the UK refused to use any of the mitigation mechanism that existed and were used by every other EU nation. Not only they did refused, they were openly advocating for immigration and the first and foremost champion of opening Europe to Eastern Europe even as far as Turkey.

Then, at the last minute before the referendum he himself called, Cameron goes to the EU asking special rule... while still refusing to implement any of the existing mechanisms at his disposal.

>We'll also be back in control of our trade policy and can make it benefit Britain and Britain alone.

We already are in control of our trade policy, in partnership with 27 other countries giving us far more leverage and clout when up against superpowers like China and the US.

Brexit makes the UK weaker and ever more subservient to American needs. Poor little Britain with its begging bowl out. Leaving a trade agreement with a group of countries that have high environmental, worker, food and consumer standards and in which every person in the UK has a vote to change the ongoing relationship to join an FTA with countries like the US that have terrible environmental, worker, food and consumer standards in which none of us will have a democratic say after the deal is done.

>Not to mention regaining our seat at the WTO so we can shape global trade policy.

Ironic how you bring up the WTO considering we'll be infringing on their rules as soon as we gain a sole seat with the Irish border. If we even hint that we are not checking the border for goods, WTO members will cause an uproar for unfair treatment tariffs-wise.

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for

Good evening it's Tuesday the 26th of June and we're standing by for your calls, this is /brit/pol/ live

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It's almost like a group of globalists in Westminster were colluding with a group of globalists in Brussels.

hope you've all been for, or are planning on going for a run today

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This > We already are in control of our trade policy

No, we don't. We have to compromise on the needs of 27 other countries. Just fuck off with your "clout" and "leverage" bullshit. We're the 5th largest economy in the world. There's 190 or so other countries out there with less clout and leverage than us. Trade is about mutual benefit. If fucking New Zealand can do it with 5 million people, so can we.

> Irish border

Felixstowe Port in Suffolk already handles 25 times more trade going through customs than the total that passes through the Irish border. 98% of it passes through just as smoothly as EU trade. Another non-issue you people like to get hysterical over.

I'm tired of having this argument with you because you've already lost. We're leaving, time to get over it.

why would i damage my joints for the purpose of running on concrete and getting a quick endorphin high?

>destroying manufacturing in the UK
it evolves
that was an argument used against the EU last thread, the EU fucked the uk's manuf sector.

>UK business (including the NHS)
is being privatised to the max under EU aegis already

also last thread you claimed
>99.9% of people never used the word sovereignty before.
>we are sovereign
well I used it before and we are not sovereign in the EU, in as much as the queen is sovereign in the UK.
we're held down by the EU in many ways, soft and hard power, thus have diminished sovereignty. furthermore we contractually absorb the EU's law therefore are hadly sovereign in legislature.

lastly the one policy you maaged to squeeze out of your search engine was about EU police data sharing.
o i am so glad the police can share data with the EU. no problem there, no global surveillance state, please take hundreds of billions in funds and we'll do your bidding in return for sharing that police data.
not like MI6 Nato GCHQ already do that bilaterally eg/ through the 5 eyes.

come up with some policies that the EU have implemented that benefit the British people. furthermore a law which the UK could not have achieved alone.

also all your muh trade arguments are hypothetical and you indicate that you know so little about global trade that it's not worth debating you on that
>UK is a minnow

if I went for a run I might lose my beautiful woman breasts
>tfw I have nicer tits than daffers

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Fuck Ireland. Especially Northern Ireland who are backwards, religious terrorist cunts.

Spotted the nigger

The leftist of the oversocialized type tries to get off his psychological leash and assert his autonomy by rebelling. But usually he is not strong enough to rebel against the most basic values of society. Generally speaking, the goals of today’s leftists are NOT in conflict with the accepted morality. On the contrary, the left takes an accepted moral principle, adopts it as its own, and then accuses mainstream society of violating that principle. Examples: racial equality, equality of the sexes, helping poor people, peace as opposed to war, nonviolence generally, freedom of expression, kindness to animals. More fundamentally, the duty of the individual to serve society and the duty of society to take care of the individual. All these have been deeply rooted values of our society (or at least of its middle and upper classes [4] for a long time. These values are explicitly or implicitly expressed or presupposed in most of the material presented to us by the mainstream communications media and the educational system. Leftists, especially those of the oversocialized type, usually do not rebel against these principles but justify their hostility to society by claiming (with some degree of truth) that society is not living up to these principles.

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stop posting ur body
also how much do you bench

And you're male just like her too!

excuses

Here is an illustration of the way in which the oversocialized leftist shows his real attachment to the conventional attitudes of our society while pretending to be in rebellion against it. Many leftists push for affirmative action, for moving black people into high-prestige jobs, for improved education in black schools and more money for such schools; the way of life of the black “underclass” they regard as a social disgrace. They want to integrate the black man into the system, make him a business executive, a lawyer, a scientist just like upper-middle-class white people. The leftists will reply that the last thing they want is to make the black man into a copy of the white man; instead, they want to preserve African American culture. But in what does this preservation of African American culture consist? It can hardly consist in anything more than eating black-style food, listening to black-style music, wearing black-style clothing and going to a black- style church or mosque. In other words, it can express itself only in superficial matters. In all ESSENTIAL respects most leftists of the oversocialized type want to make the black man conform to white, middle-class ideals. They want to make him study technical subjects, become an executive or a scientist, spend his life climbing the status ladder to prove that black people are as good as white. They want to make black fathers “responsible,” they want black gangs to become nonviolent, etc. But these are exactly the values of the industrial-technological system. The system couldn’t care less what kind of music a man listens to, what kind of clothes he wears or what religion he believes in as long as he studies in school, holds a respectable job, climbs the status ladder, is a “responsible” parent, is nonviolent and so forth. In effect, however much he may deny it, the oversocialized leftist wants to integrate the black man into the system and make him adopt its values.

S you've read the strange death of Europe then?

I don't actually bench, gonna start next week but I said that last week too
but I can do 30 press ups no sweat

I'll marry her and then I can breastfeed the kids while she sprints from black man to black man

This trans storyline on Emmerdale jesus christ as if these shows aren't cancer enough.

Not watching that out of choice, are you?

thats ted m9

Consider the hypothetical case of a man who can have anything he wants just by wishing for it. Such a man has power, but he will develop serious psychological problems. At first he will have a lot of fun, but by and by he will become acutely bored and demoralized. Eventually he may become clinically depressed. History shows that leisured aristocracies tend to become decadent. This is not true of fighting aristocracies that have to struggle to maintain their power. But leisured, secure aristocracies that have no need to exert themselves usually become bored, hedonistic and demoralized, even though they have power. This shows that power is not enough. One must have goals toward which to exercise one’s power.

Everyone has goals; if nothing else, to obtain the physical necessities of life: food, water and whatever clothing and shelter are made necessary by the climate. But the leisured aristocrat obtains these things without effort. Hence his boredom and demoralization.

Nonattainment of important goals results in death if the goals are physical necessities, and in frustration if nonattainment of the goals is compatible with survival. Consistent failure to attain goals throughout life results in defeatism, low self-esteem or depression.

Thus, in order to avoid serious psychological problems, a human being needs goals whose attainment requires effort, and he must have a reasonable rate of success in attaining his goals.

start benching
also lose weight

No, it gets relayed back to me.

yeah
I'm actually not very heavy at all but I'm starting to look doughy af
wanna bulk desu

they're one of the few communities in Britain with any actual character or identity left

>the EU fucked the uk's manuf sector.

It literally didn't.

>is being privatised to the max under EU aegis already

While the rest of the EU stays nationalised. This isn't because of the EU.

>contractually absorb the EU's law therefore are hadly sovereign in legislature.

We create said legislature.

>UK is a minnow

Relative to the EU it will be. It's not to say that the UK can't acheive good "balanced" FTAs, it's that thinking that we're held back by the EU especially when it comes to FTAs is utter delusion.

>Felixstowe Port

Currently works within the Customs Union and Single Market.

>We're leaving, time to get over it.

le you cant argue against government policy

Word for word

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> Currently works within the Customs Union and Single Market.

No, that's just non-EU trade. You know, the half of shit we buy from the rest of the world? A logistics expert that works there explained their systems could easily be adapted to the Irish border. In fact he said their systems are so efficient that EU customs exempt goods which arrive on non EU ships often go through the process anyway. Customs is a non-issue in the 21st century.

Greetings from a monkey.

What are brit/pol/ views on Jeremy Corbyn? He has been accused previously of... Holding the Jews in low regard, or so to speak. What's his endgame? Or is he just another cuck like Miliband was?

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nice meme

But not every leisured aristocrat becomes bored and demoralized. For example, the emperor Hirohito, instead of sinking into decadent hedonism, devoted himself to marine biology, a field in which he became distinguished. When people do not have to exert themselves to satisfy their physical needs they often set up artificial goals for themselves. In many cases they then pursue these goals with the same energy and emotional involvement that they otherwise would have put into the search for physical necessities. Thus the aristocrats of the Roman Empire had their literary pretensions; many European aristocrats a few centuries ago invested tremendous time and energy in hunting, though they certainly didn’t need the meat; other aristocracies have competed for status through elaborate displays of wealth; and a few aristocrats, like Hirohito, have turned to science.

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We use the term “surrogate activity” to designate an activity that is directed toward an artificial goal that people set up for themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward, or let us say, merely for the sake of the “fulfillment” that they get from pursuing the goal. Here is a rule of thumb for the identification of surrogate activities. Given a person who devotes much time and energy to the pursuit of goal X, ask yourself this: If he had to devote most of his time and energy to satisfying his biological needs, and if that effort required him to use his physical and mental faculties in a varied and interesting way, would he feel seriously deprived because he did not attain goal X? If the answer is no, then the person’s pursuit of goal X is a surrogate activity. Hirohito’s studies in marine biology clearly constituted a surrogate activity, since it is pretty certain that if Hirohito had had to spend his time working at interesting non-scientific tasks in order to obtain the necessities of life, he would not have felt deprived because he didn’t know all about the anatomy and life-cycles of marine animals. On the other hand the pursuit of sex and love (for example) is not a surrogate activity, because most people, even if their existence were otherwise satisfactory, would feel deprived if they passed their lives without ever having a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. (But pursuit of an excessive amount of sex, more than one really needs, can be a surrogate activity.)

In modern industrial society only minimal effort is necessary to satisfy one’s physical needs. It is enough to go through a training program to acquire some petty technical skill, then come to work on time and exert the very modest effort needed to hold a job. The only requirements are a moderate amount of intelligence and, most of all, simple OBEDIENCE. If one has those, society takes care of one from cradle to grave.

he's pro-hamas, pro-palestine because he views Israelis as fascists, not because he's anti-semitic
one thing I agree with momentum on is that theyre not anti-semites, they just get called it because they're anti-israel

Witnessed.

OOOOOOOOOH OOOH
JEREMY CORBYN

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Thus it is not surprising that modern society is full of surrogate activities. These include scientific work, athletic achievement, humanitarian work, artistic and literary creation, climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional physical satisfaction, and social activism when it addresses issues that are not important for the activist personally, as in the case of white activists who work for the rights of nonwhite minorities. These are not always PURE surrogate activities, since for many people they may be motivated in part by needs other than the need to have some goal to pursue. Scientific work may be motivated in part by a drive for prestige, artistic creation by a need to express feelings, militant social activism by hostility. But for most people who pursue them, these activities are in large part surrogate activities. For example, the majority of scientists will probably agree that the “fulfillment” they get from their work is more important than the money and prestige they earn.

For many if not most people, surrogate activities are less satisfying than the pursuit of real goals (that is, goals that people would want to attain even if their need for the power process were already fulfilled). One indication of this is the fact that, in many or most cases, people who are deeply involved in surrogate activities are never satisfied, never at rest. Thus the money-maker constantly strives for more and more wealth. The scientist no sooner solves one problem than he moves on to the next. The long-distance runner drives himself to run always farther and faster. Many people who pursue surrogate activities will say that they get far more fulfillment from these activities than they do from the “mundane” business of satisfying their biological needs, but that is because in our society the effort needed to satisfy the biological needs has been reduced to triviality.

STATE

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Ayyyy, top lad.

More importantly, in our society people do not satisfy their biological needs AUTONOMOUSLY but by functioning as parts of an immense social machine. In contrast, people generally have a great deal of autonomy in pursuing their surrogate activities.

Autonomy as a part of the power process may not be necessary for every individual. But most people need a greater or lesser degree of autonomy in working toward their goals. Their efforts must be undertaken on their own initiative and must be under their own direction and control. Yet most people do not have to exert this initiative, direction and control as single individuals. It is usually enough to act as a member of a SMALL group. Thus if half a dozen people discuss a goal among themselves and make a successful joint effort to attain that goal, their need for the power process will be served. But if they work under rigid orders handed down from above that leave them no room for autonomous decision and initiative, then their need for the power process will not be served. The same is true when decisions are made on a collective basis if the group making the collective decision is so large that the role of each individual is insignificant.

It is true that some individuals seem to have little need for autonomy. Either their drive for power is weak or they satisfy it by identifying themselves with some powerful organization to which they belong. And then there are unthinking, animal types who seem to be satisfied with a purely physical sense of power (the good combat soldier, who gets his sense of power by developing fighting skills that he is quite content to use in blind obedience to his superiors).

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youtu.be/xo-1iAsqmQI

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Okay don't turn into Pube now matey.

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Alas! There comes the time when man will no longer give birth to any star. Alas! There comes the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself. Lo! I show you the Last Man.

"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?" -- so asks the Last Man, and blinks. The earth has become small, and on it hops the Last Man, who makes everything small. His species is ineradicable as the flea; the Last Man lives longest.

"We have discovered happiness" -- say the Last Men, and they blink.

They have left the regions where it is hard to live; for they need warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him; for one needs warmth. Turning ill and being distrustful, they consider sinful: they walk warily. He is a fool who still stumbles over stones or men!

A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And much poison at the end for a pleasant death. One still works, for work is a pastime. But one is careful lest the pastime should hurt one. One no longer becomes poor or rich; both are too burdensome. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too burdensome.

No shepherd, and one herd! Everyone wants the same; everyone is the same: he who feels differently goes voluntarily into the madhouse.

"Formerly all the world was insane," -- say the subtlest of them, and they blink.

They are clever and know all that has happened: so there is no end to their derision. People still quarrel, but are soon reconciled -- otherwise it upsets their stomachs. They have their little pleasures for the day, and their little pleasures for the night, but they have a regard for health.

"We have discovered happiness," -- say the Last Men, and they blink.

And here ended the first discourse of Zarathustra for at this point the shouting and mirth of the multitude interrupted him. "Give us this Last Man, O Zarathustra," they called out "make us into these Last Men!" And all the people exulted and smacked their lips.

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But for most people it is through the power process—having a goal, making an AUTONOMOUS effort and attaining the goal—that self-esteem, self-confidence and a sense of power are acquired. When one does not have adequate opportunity to go through the power process the consequences are (depending on the individual and on the way the power process is disrupted) boredom, demoralization, low self-esteem, inferiority feelings, defeatism, depression, anxiety, guilt, frustration, hostility, spouse or child abuse, insatiable hedonism, abnormal sexual behavior, sleep disorders, eating disorders, etc.

Any of the foregoing symptoms can occur in any society, but in modern industrial society they are present on a massive scale. We aren’t the first to mention that the world today seems to be going crazy. This sort of thing is not normal for human societies. There is good reason to believe that primitive man suffered from less stress and frustration and was better satisfied with his way of life than modern man is. It is true that not all was sweetness and light in primitive societies. Abuse of women was common among the Australian aborigines, transexuality was fairly common among some of the American Indian tribes. But it does appear that GENERALLY SPEAKING the kinds of problems that we have listed in the preceding paragraph were far less common among primitive peoples than they are in modern society.

We attribute the social and psychological problems of modern society to the fact that that society requires people to live under conditions radically different from those under which the human race evolved and to behave in ways that conflict with the patterns of behavior that the human race developed while living under the earlier conditions. It is clear from what we have already written that we consider lack of opportunity to properly experience the power process as the most important of the abnormal conditions to which modern society subjects people.

> Relative to the EU it will be. It's not to say that the UK can't acheive good "balanced" FTAs, it's that thinking that we're held back by the EU especially when it comes to FTAs is utter delusion.

We have to make concessions to keep the other 27 happy. As a crude hypothetical example, we wouldn't have to worry about protecting a wine or cheese industry in making a deal with South Africa. We could offer them access to our market in something which won't harm British business or workers at all, but benefit consumers, because we don't have huge industries in those areas. In exchange we could get something we want from them, and now we're both benefiting both ways. Within the EU, France and Italy would take that bargaining chip off the table. Your entire concept of how international trade works is fucking bizarre.

I usually don't post here, but I have a question for you guys:
I might have a job offer near Swindon in the UK. I never lived in your country before and all I know about its current situation comes from Jow Forums memes, so I figured I should maybe ask you directly: Is it a good idea to move to the UK in the current political & social climate or is it all a huge shitshow that is going to implode at any minute?
I love English history & literature, but I am a bit worried when I read about things like "knife bans" or "porn license", and of course all the stuff about Muslim rape gangs & terrorists.
And yes, I am white.

This is the first I've heard about it, even if it did work, it still wouldn't solve the implications on the GFA.

>Former WTO Chief: post-Brexit EU trade deal could take six years to negotiate
noreena.com/brexit-trade-deal-could-take-up-to-six-years-to-negotiate-former-wto-chief-tells-itv-news/

finished now sorry.

good advice you pear shaped cunt maybe we wont execute you after all. good post.

>we're held back by the EU especially when it comes to FTAs

you keepflipping your own logic
here you proposed that the UK can't do as well in trade deals outside of the EU
then we riposted that we can do good deals and in some ways are held back by the EU
now you posit that its us saying "we're held back from trade deals by the EU"
cope harder remoaner

I'm glad you're doing a little research on the subject and I appreciate the debate
although you still haven't shown me one policy that the EU does which benefits Britain, that the UK couldn't do alone

he's one of the only good MPs the rest will sell their soul for shekels. he hasn't revealed his full gameplan but he will win the next election if he survives that long

It's not even that hypothetical because the EU were bitching about things as trivial as the language on labels etc.

not exactly up to date but:
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-trade-protectionism-eu-idUKTRE7655R920110706

[it's actually fine lad, London is a state but the rest of the UK is fine, countryside is lovely]

how long is the job for medpackbro? its not too bad here but i wouldnt stay too long if i were you, 5 years max.

It's like anywhere: it's all about the company you keep. Isn't Switzerland a bit over liberal itself? I say do it just to experience a difference country/culture while you have the opportunity

Look how many upvotes this comment has... on BBC...

These people will not stop until they have driven us into the dirt.

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youtu.be/waR64PqQKBo

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