Americas legal system is fucked

Just fight fight fight, user. Nothing more important than keeping your daughter healthy and safe.

Cant fight with no money fellow Jow Forumsack

Which im fast running out of. Cant even call up favors from family cuz were all part of lower-middle class society. Damn near poverty level

As much as id like that, im not really the violent type. Ill figure out something. Hopefully.

No, I was just shitposting. You shouldn't use violence, you're better than that. I don't know how you'll get on top of this situation, but I believe in you user and I hope you get custody back. I know you can do it. Good luck, and may jesus/Allah or whatever you believe in bless you in all your endeavors

If it were my daughter I would fight tooth and nail for her. Daughters are a precious and fragile thing man. Without your guidance she will have daddy issues. She needs you.

Confront the grandparents. Say it straight up no bullshit that you want to keep your daughter. Your daughter can split the time between your home and theirs but the custody will be with you. Your wife is in the wrong on this one. Have balls and speak up with authority. You are in the right and you have God on your side. Threaten them that you'll tell the court that they lied.

So thats it? Jow Forums has no solutions other than going out school-shooter style, or spending money i dont have to pursue litigation?

I shouldve figured. Its all i could think of too.

Like i said, the system is fucked. Ill be glad when a solar flare knocks out all the fucking comms. Or a nuke. Fuck it. That little glimmer of hope i had for this world has just been stamped out.

We need to just kill ourselves, i dont even know if a re-do would be worth it.

relax bro, give it a few years and be your best, they usually end ditching their mother and living with their father in their early teens anyway, the rule is mother and daughter fight like hell.

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Do you not have expense records of you caring for the child? If you can prove that you were caring for the child this entire time, that also proves that your inlaws were lying, which would result in:

If you do take any retarded step at least write down on a piece of paper why you did what you did. It will at least shed some light on the system and who knows? Maybe change it?

(Also, don't do anything retarded like suicide or murder)

See thats the thing.

I HAVE confronted them. When i speak to them face to face they always act like theyre on my side, and they claim their lawyer is stalling not them.

I literally cant do anything "out of line" like get pissed and ask them wtf they keep lying for, or theyll just take her from me.

And theyre probably the worst option for parenting my kid.. i saw how their daughter (my ex) turned out. Ive lived in their house. I know how they operate and its sick. Theyre driven by greed and spite.

Ask for your wife's wedding ring back. Sell that for money. Figure our some way to arrange the money man. It's a game of stamina. It's a marathon. Whoever loses patience first wins.

LARP to the grandparents that you have lots of money and you can basically make this go on forever. Do it with a carefree and brave and chill attitude of defiance.

Make them overdose on insulin. It will kill them and will be absorbed into the body.

Judge didnt care to look at any evidence in our little emergency hearing we called up because the child was being withheld from me for no good reason once i initiated litigation.

Oh, I see. So you have to play nice or she gets taken away. Hmm. Only a judge can fix that. Do you get a public defender for such cases if you can't afford a lawyer?

If you can't afford a lawyer, can you act as a lawyer yourself?

I never married the mom. But ive had genetic testing done so the child is established mine.

Also, the grandparents know my situation, which means im fucked. I cant lie about my finances, because theyd know i was lying. And i know THEY have lots of money to burn, because theyre frugal and have lots of savings..

Unless you're a cop
Or a govt official
Or an expert on the govt payroll
Or have some political pull

No public defender as far as i know in my jurisdiction.

And i know i dont have enough legal knowledge to represent myself. And i dont have the time/energy to learn it with work and taking care of my kid..

You have to be strong. You can't give them any ammunition to use against you. They want you to snap, do something that looks bad, and lose your daughter. Courts side with females and it's a motherfucker but there has to be a way out. Think of what's at stake.

My brother was trying to get his two boys and the Bible thumper judge favored the mother because even though she's a pill popper her family goes to church on Sundays so that made her the best choice in the judges mind. You can't let them get to you.

So heres another tidbit:

On the agreement i have GENEROUS visitation written in for the grandparents and the mom. Even though the mom has all but abandoned the situation. AND im not even asking for child support... i just wanna raise my kid.. but they keep fucking me around..

Don't you have parents? Why don't they get a say on their granddaughter?

It sounds to me like you've picked your lawyer poorly and need to get your shit together with sworn statements and character references from friends and family.

Be more careful with your interactions with her parents, find ways of making your story verifiable, I'm not sure if taping peoples conversations while they are unaware is admissible evidence where you are.

I know the rules of this game, im just sick of it. Thats why i came here... thank you everyone whos being supportive and stopping the shitposts to give me advice. It means alot.

Ive been voice recording ALOT of convos between myself and them. So i have that. But im scared itll never see the courtroom because im a poorfag

Google is your friend user. Instead of Jow Forums start reading custody laws NOW. Weaponize everything you can against them. Ask questions on law related forums or websites like Quora or yahoo answers or something. A law forum would be the best though. Make a list of reasons why you would be the better parent and explain that to the judge. Show them stats of single motherhood as a last resort.

When you speak in the court be polite but firm and charismatic that the judge clearly hears what your are saying. Be well dressed too. Use emotional arguments if needed.

You cannot lie under oath. If you can prove they are lying they face perjury charges. What did they lie about?

Ive been taping convos (its allowed here) things would be good if i wasnt scared of this dragging out till i cant pay my lawyer..

Just sickened by the pay to play system in this country/world.

Not much to do about it, i know. Im just having a tantrum about it on a forum because i needed to vent.

Lying about correspondence between their lawyer and them

Lying about time spent with the kid

Lying about my character and interactions with the child

All sorts of bullshit.. alot of it is small stuff, obscure.

Im telling you guys, theyre psychopathic. Or at least the grandmother is.

I appreciate the advice and will take it into consideration. I have already perused law forums looking for answers.. Its difficult to find info specific to my case, though.

Fucking beg in front of a lawyer if it comes to it man. Ask some Christian lawyer to help you. If he doesn't then guilt trip christian lawyers into helping you. Quote some bible verses man. Tell him that you don't have the money now but you will surely pay him. Make sure that the universe gives you what you want by any means necessary.

Ask your church for money. Ask friends for money. Tell them you may not be able to return it straight up.

Fight user. If you don't fight for what you want then don't cry for what you've lost. Who will win or who will lose is not your problem. That is God's problem. Your duty is to give your best shot.

Youre right. Ill do what it takes. Thank you once again, user.

This. Don't get me wrong having been extremely depressed before myself(still am but have been worse) I essentially get the magnitude of what I am asking but your daughter NEEDS you to be a man and push through an hour at a time if need be(cliche, I know but it's a fact) and it WILL get better. I will pray for you and your daughter.

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All the best user.Hope you come out winning. I'll pray for you.

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The first step is to stop feeling angry about the system, laws are put in place for a reason, and they are complicated as fuck. It's not pay to play, lawyers are trained professionals that specialise in sorting through the bullshit to make it understandable for you, and present your opinions and character in the best possible light to the court. They aren't the enemy, it's the grandparents.

The judge isn't going to be a biased fuckwit. If you can demonstrate that you have the financial means to support your kid and don't have a checkered history in terms of violence and abuse (literally the first type of dirt they will try to find on you or just throw your way to intimidate you, that's why you need proper legal character references from people who know you)

I meant to finish by saying if you can demonstrate you're a good father they'll prefer to put your kid with you than the grandparents.

Thank you. It means more than words can say that you took the time to say that. I need all the prayers i can get these days.

I will continue, i will not give up. She does need me. Ill be honest, i was being a bit hyperbolic with saying i wanted to kms but i have fantasized about just giving up..

Regardless, thank you.

I dont understand what youre mad about. Your would be inlaws are taking care of the child. Better than them being raised by some fucking degenerate single parent.

user, don't quit it's how they win

I had some bullshit once, in the end instead of a plea like all the normies I squeezed out enough money to take it to trial, it hurt badly, I went days without eating sometimes

But the prosecutor fucked up and I won.

Keep pushing , everyone expects you to quit, if you don't they don't know what to do.

You'll always be able to have more money, but you only get once chance to raise a life.

Read the thread before commenting on the situation. The grandparents would be the WORST option in this scenario because of the type of people they are.

>JudgeAlex KozinskiandEugene Volokhin an article entitledLawsuit Shmawsuit, note the rise in use of Yiddish words in legal opinion. They note thatchutzpahhas been used 231 times in American legal opinions, 220 of those after 1980.
hmm

Eta, it's a battle of attrition sometimes and as a young viral man you're a lot stronger then you think

People have survived far more with far less, don't quit your fight

I hear you user. Its just frustrating that those with fat stacks of cash can get away with so much.

Im just barely getting on my own track at 23 years old.

No. I did read the fucking thread. And OP is an idiot. The only one fucking with his psyche is himself. Telling himself hes a good parent when neither are. The grandparents know more about parenting than either of them.

Just let the grandparents take the kid. Theyre doing your dumbass a favor.

>Lying about correspondence between their lawyer and them

A lawyer is an officer of the court so he/she cannot lie. I know it sounds funny but thats how it is. If you say there is no correspondence ask to see it. They have to provide you with copies.

If you dispute evidence then there is no evidence.

>Lying about time spent with the kid

Dispute it.

>Lying about my character and interactions with the child

Dispute it. They'll probably end up interviewing the child. As far as your character it depends on what they're saying.

And it would probably be a lot easier to go and visit the kid.

So you dont have to deal with your ex.

Kys you fucking neckbeard autistic pimple on the asscheck of society.

Lrn2comprehend

>op is an idiot

My fucking sides

Speak english moron.

Its heartening to hear you got through the shit still alive and well.

I just gotta keep trying.

Someones bored, eh? Fuck off. Actually no stay. Youre making me laugh

Ok, listen. This is the most important reply you'll get on this thread.

>be me
>lost custody of baby boy
>court let her take him out of state
>ordered to pay child support
>can only see him after traveling 1,500 miles

It's a fucked up system. You need to stay super fucking calm right now. The court is watching you. No outbursts, no nasty txts or emails. Nothing.

What you have to do right now is excercise, get support from your family, eat healthy and try and get sleep (that part is tough, I know).

The family court is really fucked up. Realize that you aren't the only dad that got screwed.

It's possible things will work out but it won't if you fly off the handle so be calm brother

What about your family though? Can't you borrow some cash from them?

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Im sorry you got dealt such a shit hand bro.

I know the rules, ive been very careful. Im just overly stressed lately by it.

It feels like theyre a whale and im a krill as far as power goes right now.

Dont know extended family well enough to ask them, and my parents already struggle financially. Theyve helped some, but i know theyre not gonna be able to help enough if things take a turn for the worse (ie. It ends up going to trial)

Stay strong user. I know that feel. Few years from now it'll be just a distant memory.

When you pay child support the government takes a cut. They always side against the dad to increase tax revenue.

You have no power in this situation. The government can take our children from us. You need to understand that right now. You can't go shooting up the place or threatening people. They know how to handle that also (they'll delcare you insane and lock you up, I'm not kidding).

You'll gain the most traction by remaining calm and rationally explaining your position. Thatms the way you can make head way. They'll lie about you too, expect that. They'll twitst your words and paint you as something that you're not. They're gunna try to get you to slip up. Don't let them. Be super fucking joe cool, document everything. Secretly record all conversations you have with a pocket usb recording device (they're like $20 on amazon -- just put that shit on your key chain).

Most importantly, you gotta excercise, eat healthy and get lots of sleep. You can't be on your A game if you're tired, eat fast food shit and are a fat fuck.

This will be the biggest challenge of your life. Start training like an athlete and get your body and mind in shape.

Fight for your child and your future.

Did you know judges have total immunity to having charges pressed against them for decisions they make in court?

Lets say theres two parties in a case, A and B

A could be well intentioned, just trying to get justice

B could be secretly in cahoots with the judge, making bribes and such to sway opinion. Of course, theyd know how to avoid getting caught because theyre legal professionals.

Guess who that happened to? I have no proof, but the opposing counsels lawyer definitely was all buddy-buddy with our judge. And mine was all nervous. Something was up i wasnt being told about.

>having kids in the first place
You fucked up, OP. Have another kid and start over if you haven't learned your lesson yet.

Fuck em user. Do what you have to, to keep your child. Don't go around her grandparents. Fight the court case, she is worth your effort user.

Why the fuck are you posting this on Jow Forums? Take it to any of the other boards, no wonder you're getting BTFO by a roastie

Fuck off cuck. This is a men's rights issue and is reasonable to talk about on Jow Forums. Don't you have to fucking go buy your cement dildo license, or somethingg?

Ive got the food and exercise part down. But sleep? It avoids me lately. Which is funny because prior to this all happening i NEVER had trouble sleeping. In fact i prided myself on my ability to sleep so easily even under stress. Idk what happened. Ive been working on it though.

Jesus I'm sorry user.

Remember God is on your side. Even if this drags on and your experience some losses, remember this. Also your daughter will end up on your side no matter what happens

sounds like you need a better lawyer, maybe you could set up a gofundme ?

bump

I couldn't sleep for a long time but it's important. I was awake at night seething, thinking about what I could do. It doesn't do any good. You just reinforce the same thoughts and it'll drive you depressed. The excercise helps that. Taking a hot shower when you can't sleep also helps.

Stay away from the drugs and alcohol. The court can ding you on that and it'll only make it harder to sleep.

Look man, know matter what happens, remember this. Good or bad, you will always have your daughter as your friend for the rest of your lives.

They canmt take that away from you. Just be there for her and do the best you can to raise her into a good woman, even though you may not have the time you wanted. Nobody will fault you for any of this and who cares what anyone thinks. When she's older, you can explain that you tried to be there for her.

If you have a straight forward case and you know you're gonna win eventually - that likely means you could get them to return all your legal expenses. If so, there's a chance some lawyer would represent you on "no win - no fee" basis. Worth asking around.

I hope she does.

What worries me is the inevitable "brain washing" as id like to call it that will happen if they get my child.

Theyll turn her against me. Fill her with false notions about the world and how it works. Their daughter (my ex) is a direct result of their fucked up parenting style and im terrified my daughter will be lost to it.

Heres a prime example of the kind of people they are:

They have another daughter. She is deaf and mentally retarded (i think autistic, not sure though). Either way shes permanently like a 10 year old mentally.

When i lived with these people years back when my girlfriend was pregnant with my daughter, i saw how they treated their deaf daughter.

The father and mother treated her like a nuisance, the father made jokes about her disabilities and encouraged other people to do the same.

They said it was because "she didnt deserve special treatment." That "she acted like she did because she thought she needs special treatment and treating her like a "normal" person will make her "normal""

I mean seriously WHAT THE FUCK

They literally handcuffed her one time because she raged out about something, and tried to get me to help hold her down. I was like 15 at the time, knew nothing about what i could have done legally. Now i have no proof and it wont hold in court, unless i somehow got testimony from the deaf daughter. But theyll probably convince her to testify in their favor anyways.

Evil. Pure fuckin evil.

Just kill them you cuck, nobody will be on your side whether you go straight or take matters in your hands.
So do something that will get results.

You got your ex girlfriend pregnant when you were 15?

Think that’s bad
>two brother loves out of state from main family
>one of them is married to crazy
>because they both work, crazy volunteers to babysit during day
>one day she snaps and kills my other brother’s baby
>goes to jail
>while I’m jail, she files for visitation right
>brother files opposition on account of not wanting to take his kids into a fucking jail to see a crazy woman who committed infanticide
>because she’s in jail, she gets a free lawyer who files complaint
>now my brother has to take his kids to jail every weekend to visit their mother, or her parents get custody
>they don’t even live in the same state
>brother is now single father and too poor to hire lawyer
It’s a fucked up world if you’re a guy. At least it teaches me to never fuck around with mental chicks.

Your daughter is old enough to know right from wrong. The court won't take her away from you, unless you do somethingn really stupid so there will be opportunities when you're alone to ask her if everything is ok. Just tell her that if she needs help, you'll be there to assist.

The one good thing about the court being involved is everyone is scared to fuck up. Your ex's parents won't dare do anything to her. They'll know if they're cruel in anyway, you'll be on them like white on rice.

Just relax right now and take care of yourself. This will be a long fight. It's a marathan fight.

Yeh, wot u g0nna do m8?

WTF duuude now thats crazy.

Just shows how ridiculous the system is.

Thats the logic i have in the back of my head, telling me "everything will be okay eventually, just be patient"

Thank you for reinforcing that.

This. Hang in their OP, you'll get through this and be stronger for having done so.

How old are you now?

>you can't do an illegal thing
why the fuck are we in court in the first place lol

23, stated that in another post.

OP if you are still here what state do you live in?

IN

How much do you earn, where do you work, where do you live?

It's family court, not real court. Family court is like television court where women lie and everyone turns a blind eye. They know children bring out a lot of emotions and it's pretty lenient. The judge reprimands instead.

It's a fucking circus.

$10/hour in a shit warehouse job. Indiana. Theres a whole story as to why i dont have a better job, which admittedly involves mistakes on my part. Things were looking so good up until March. Literally lost my good job the same day this legal shit started. No, the events werent related they just happened to happen the same day.

FPBP,

also, pull up all records of yourself- finances, most importantly.

If they have no evidence, all you need to do is present evidence that proves you are a caring, considerate father.

Financial records and statements should easily be able to prove this. If you paid in cash, request access to your local markets security footage.

We live in the age of information. If you aren't shitting us, you'll find a way.

Request location data from your cell.

The plaintiff can stall, but all that does is look guilty when presented with factual evidence.

Hire a P.I. to dig into the mother and her bfs lives.

In all honestly, if you're telling the truth, this should have been handled by the first court case with a competent private investigator.

Not everybody knows how the legal system works when they first dip into its waters, user.

Thanks for the advice anyways.

Ah too bad I know a few good NY lawyers. (I work in Family Law):

1) Find a new lawyer - go to a local law school and see if they have a justice center or a clinic of some kind. They will hook you up with a lawyer for a discount which sounds shitty but there are lawyers who have practiced for a long time with these places who sign up to help.

2) DO NOT JUST GIVE UP AND LET THEM FORCE YOU TO SIGN ANYTHING. ANY. THING. I can't tell you how many men come into the office, give up, and sign HORRIBLE agreements. I can't tell you how many clients come to the office because they signed a really bad stipulation or agreement just to "end it" and are royally fucked. It is SO hard to help them.

3) If you left the house (without the daughter) you have not given up parental rights but it makes you look "bad." I would work on gathering evidence that the mother is worse and that she is neglecting her responsibilities somehow. AND start taking your kids places for fun, keep receipts, tally how much you spend on their welfare, etc. It'll help in the future.

4) Court sucks and is slow as fuck. If it's not judges stalling it, it's the attorneys. You just have to be patient AND DO NOT AGREE ON ANYTHING JUST TO END IT BECAUSE YOU'RE SAD, LOSING MONEY, AND TIRED. I guarantee you I FUCKING guarantee you you will be spending MORE money in the future trying to get out of that bad deal and it will be nearly impossible and expensive.

In summary: don't let them make you sign any agreements you don't like, gather evidence, and be patient, and try to find another lawyer.

>It would be a shame if you bought a basher(PAYG) phone and went to the darkweb.
>It would be a shame if CP images were transferred to the grandfathers computer.
>It would be a shame if someone tipped authorities that CP was on the grandfathers mobile or home computer.
> It would be a shame if someone made google searches for CP off their wifi.

Why are you the only one thats civilised?
Why do they get to take your kid?
When are you going to get serious?

This too. I don't think a PI is necessary right now but I would keep it in mind for the future.

GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AMIRITE?

The American justice system isn't as much about the truth, as it is about who can argue the best and who can present their case the best. The truth in many, many, many cases... whether criminal or civil simply doesn't matter in the end.

It's fucked up, but that's the way it is.

Oh and it's also about how much money you have and what kind of personal connections or relationships you have.

I've personally seen rapists who literally confessed without remorse get zero prison time, do a month in county jail and get out with no probation... simply because of their financial situation and who their family knew within the system.

Why do you think lawyers go golfing with judges to talk about cases?

Anyways user... get crafty and you can win. Don't give up hope, sometimes actual justice does prevail.

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this fucking kid.
grow up son