Toxic Masculinity is a creation of the Consumer Culture

You talk like you know shit about parenting, I was asking if you speak from experience you dumb fucking leaf

I know you believe feminism is like "female supremacy" or some shit, and you think if a guy doesn't outright shit on a woman like an incel he's a feminist, but no, feminism isn't toxic, unless a guy castrates himself in the name of women or if a girl thinks feminism means female supremacy, then sure.

Implying consumer culture never existed before Communism.

Is Versailles not consumer culture. Is it not the epitome of conspicuous consumption?

Consumption is just another thing for you commies to be envious of and bitch about. Something more to steal from people out of your own sense of failure and perverted sense of anti-righteous indignation.

You're commie sheep, nothing more. Nothing you speak is novel or unique from the millions of dead commies who came before you.

you're on Jow Forums do you honestly think mr. rogers thinks you're being kind to your neighbour when you browse here

you seem prepared to argue about chid abuse. feel free to argue why beating a child or telling a child he isn't allowed to speak about his problems isn't damaging.

You should give your kids a wack if they are acting like little shits, it's called discipline, maybe if your PM was whacked more by his father maybe he wouldn't be the cuck you see today

>Implying consumer culture never existed before Communism.
I never implied that, but ok.

>Consumption is just another thing for you commies to be envious of and bitch about
you're defending consumer culture?
>Something more to steal from people out of your own sense of failure and perverted sense of anti-righteous indignation.
how is telling someone to not fall for marketing scams and advertisements that play into your insecurities "anti righteous"

how is speaking against over consumption, and the vast effort to sell to insecure males through cheap nik nacks communism

you seem more eager to jump straight to who I am rather then discuss how calling your son weak is toxic and dangerous behaviour as a parent.

more to the point, we were discussing the concept of toxic masculinity. which you think isn't a problem, do you think hurting your child is helping them grow.

End toxic shitposting right now!

Dude you're my hero. I swear I tried to discuss in Jow Forums like you before but, as you can see, it is full of people who have never studied philosophy, history or, ironically, politics.

I am going to disagree with you by pushing it a bit more into the extreme, but on a constructive track:

I think masculinity itself is a product of consumer culture among many other things. It doesn't have to do with being toxic or not (although toxic and non-toxic manifestations of masculinity exist).

As you probably know, many cultures have given men less dominant roles, and there are multiple matrilineal examples where descendents grow with the mother's family. In these cultures, masculinity is wildly different because men are not even truly "allowed in". Females sre the family leaders and me are workers.

So I will go as far as saying that masculinity or feminity as we conceive them don't even exist at all. Sure, they have been adopted by absolutely everyone, but if you think about it even across age groups, ethnicities, nationalities and income groups feminity and masculinity change wildly. Why should we believe masculinity or feminity are a single thing?

Going back to the toxic/non-toxoc thing. I believe there are toxic and non-toxic manifestations of feminity or masculinity. However, all forcefully imposed gender roles are a form of toxicity already.

Is nothing sacred to you fucking leafs

Guess what nationality also thinks masculinity is toxic.

Are you triggered by the place of earth we were born in? You little, sad, snowflake.

>Canada

EVERY SINGLE TIME

fucking christ, thanks for being serious and not going into a "fight or flight" mode like everyone else here!

I actually agree on what you mean on masculinity, it has always been just a culture, people simply acting out to feel like they fit in better, creating, essentially, a meme that they think all males must aspire to be.

You can't deny young boys enjoy wrestling and being more active, but to push them to act like spontaneous and volatile little shits is absolutely not right.
Especially what we consider "feminine" have always been concepts that man created. if you take any woman and put her back into the stone age, they all act the same. if you raised a girl there's no conceivable way for her to act like a stereotypical "feminine lady" unless you push the memes on her.

obviously this is like discussing athiesm is a texan church but it's interesting to see someone else who agrees with these concepts on Jow Forums!

>feminism isn't toxic
That's rich. Modern feminism is trying to castrate the image of masculinity. Now we have a generation of nu-males. God forbid you're an incel, then you'll be treated like a sub-human no matter what you're circumstances are.

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Right on, my libtard bro. I saw this thread and I had to reply because I couldn't just let it be a one-sided shitstorm.

Yeah, I do think there are some scientifically-proven hormonal twndencies relatwd to instincts like what you mention about boys wrestling. Of course this does not translate to mor complex behavior like the whole idea of what being a man is as this has been proven to just be something a socoety builds.

If you're interested in gender issues from progressive-but-not-arrogant stance you might be interested in this newish book by harvard behavioral economics professor Iris Bohnet called "Whay works: gender equality by design". Tjere is a UN libraru edition that is beautiful and the book goes into how biases against men, women, and pretty much any group crop up without anyone having any bad intentions. It proposes very interesting ways of boosting productivity in work environments while ensuring people get where they need to be by merit and not by stereotypical profiling.

Masculinity isn't for women to define. That is toxic.

There are millions of feminists that are not toxic. That being said, and as a feminist: I do believe MOST of feminism today is very toxic and stupid.

I will always call myself a feminist but believe me: I see the grade of idiocy of other feminists.

And he is a reddit fag. Look at that spacing. A double maple syrup dog fucker. Get the rake my fellow landscaper.

I think OP Is a man.

Although you make a clever turn on what many feminists say and I think you've shown one of the main mistakes of today's feminist movements that is believing a single group should have absute power on what being a man or a woman is.

>So I will go as far as saying that masculinity or feminity as we conceive them don't even exist at all. Sure, they have been adopted by absolutely everyone, but if you think about it even across age groups, ethnicities, nationalities and income groups feminity and masculinity change wildly. Why should we believe masculinity or feminity are a single thing?
In nature, how come it's always the mother bear raising the cubs? How come it's always the males that compete for a mate? How come it's always the male chimpanzees that fight for their troop? Sex plays a huge roll in animal behavior. Why wouldn't that apply to humans too?

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Those memes just happen to be the atomic blocks of the single most successful civilization to grace this earth, the civic ingredients which elevated us out of the stone age as it happens. Other memes we could consider discarding are the rule of law or natural rights. Just a meme we push on people from birth after all.

>Especially what we consider "feminine" have always been concepts that man created. if you take any woman and put her back into the stone age, they all act the same. if you raised a girl there's no conceivable way for her to act like a stereotypical "feminine lady" unless you push the memes on her.
False there's been numerous exparaments where they try to raise children the opposite sex they were born, and they all failed miserably. The most famous is probably David Reimer.

True, but in nature it is male.penguins that bear the egg, male giraffes that fuck male giraffes, male fish that become female to procreate, male seahorse that give birth after bearing the eggs.

Sex is important, but it is not the end-all be-all of how society should be. We have proven we can decide on how we want to live. Wars have gone down across the centuries contrary to nature's order, life expectancy has gone up, etc.

You make a great point, I jist think we have a lot of agency on it.

word
too bad women are thots who perpetuate this system

>take Guy
>remove any threat he might pose to anyone
>hey presto, non-toxic man

It's not like we'll ever have to fight for anything again, right? Modern Society® has all that covered!

You say there's agency but in 3 of your examples those are their natural behaviors that evolution trained them to do. It only helps my point. And just because a male seahorse gives birth doesn't mean it's normal for John Doe to want to be a women.

>or telling a child he isn't allowed to speak about his problems isn't damaging.
It's one thing to never let anything out but I had an epiphany about this awhile ago. No one likes it when people vent about serious personal issue. Not. A. Single. Person. Internalizing it isn't always a bad way to deal with it.