How come Venezuela's socialism fails, when Bolivia's socialism succeeds?

There are several articles to choose from like Forbes, etc. Bolivia's economic performance is the lowest out of all of South America, and lowest among mineral rich nations. There is no excuse for a country to perform that badly.

What's Forbe's excuse... Forbes is a globalist media source.,

Incidentally, it also makes you think.
Evo Morales has been president of Bolivia since 2006(!), what exactly happened in Bolivia to "set it on the same path as Venezuela" since January 2017?
Or, perhaps, in your class-traitor worldview, EVERY attempt at socialism politics is set on the path to disaster, and that one that don't appear to be failing are simply stalling for time? (Or, as in the case for Northern Europe, "Not Actually Socialism")

It takes a while to drive the economy to the ground.

t. post-Dilma Brazil inhabitant

And yet people re-elect Morales over and over again, winning by huge margins, and still remains highly popular among his people to this day.

Yes of course from a libertarian perspective its inexcusable, but Evo is running a socialist democracy that took the country from its most unstable era in decades. He is not trying to exploit the country for private companies, he is trying to redistribute the power for the aymara, farmers and lower class citizens that were used to have no input.

elcomercio.pe/mundo/latinoamerica/cambio-bolivia-evo-morales-presidente-275401

"His office highlights that the "redistributive policy of wealth allowed the country to improve the quality of life of its inhabitants, reducing inequalities."

In 2006, Bolivia's international reserves reached US $ 3,000 million, a figure that reached US $ 15,000 million in this decade.

In October 2015, the international agency Moody's Investors highlighted the high growth and investment rates of Bolivia in relation to its neighboring countries, the low external vulnerability due to its international reserves and the moderate debt of Bolivia, for which it decided to confirm the Country risk rating "Ba3" with "stable outlook".

journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0094582X18774319?journalCode=lapa

An article for you that is a little more scholarly...

user simply put, socialism is not freaking communism, that is a long exploited libertarian meme to prevent comfy and stable moderate socialist regimes to prevent private companies to fuck lower classes. Now, I'm not a commie apologizer at all, the commie meme is a menace and subversive and dangerous as any mises institute tier of batshit libertarianism. Communism is stupid, doesnt work and its dangerous. Socialism is completely different.

>In October 2015, the international agency Moody's Investors highlighted the high growth and investment rates of Bolivia in relation to its neighboring countries, the low external vulnerability due to its international reserves and the moderate debt of Bolivia, for which it decided to confirm the Country risk rating "Ba3" with "stable outlook".
It's actually extremely funny and ironic that organizations like the IMF and World Bank praise Bolivia's economical and financial performance, when this performance is the direct result of Bolivia refusing the various "readjustment plans" offered to them and acting in the direct opposite.

The miners revolt!

Bolivia's Socialism is dependent on nationalization of its natural resources. But if no one is willing to mine for free, Bolivia's economy crumbles.

Actually agreed!
And the best type of socialism is Libertarian Socialism. Preferably with strong ecological overtones.

>But if no one is willing to mine for free
Gee, I hope then that the government does pay the miners.

>Implying workers do not have unions and go to strikes at right-leaning regimes regimes.

Admit it user, Bolivia has its own share of problems as any other economy does, specially in latin America. But its definitely not fucked up as the literal commie dictator is fucking Venezuela. In Costa Rica we have a social democracy, explain how we are not fucked kekekekek.

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Bolivia cant afford to pay the miners to mine. Again Socialism no matter how much frosting is put on the term always fucks someone over.

WTF if you look for socialist countries on wikipedia it literally shows communist regimes, and if you look for communist regimes it shows the same page LMAO.

>Holy top kek implying no one ever gets fucked when capitalism goes wrong.

user, socialism is a thing for small countries that have not industrial capabilities, as an example, social democracy in the US is retarded, but it does work in some countries, specially when certain sectors have been left abandoned, ana gain in small countries these are live villages and people who share the same way of living. Trust me m80, you would have to live around these places to see how it works in our context. Again I don't see socialism working pretty much anywhere that is considered a first world country, where private investment and laissez faire policies can exploit and produce shit tons of jobs and industries.

They dont have oil that americans want to secure.

Socialism only benefits large urban centers. For it work the regime must be willing to fuck over someone else to get the revenue to pay for socialism. Human's are by nature greedy. More money or more welfare. Take your pick. Welfare is more expensive than money.

In the U.S. over the last decade large urban centers along the west and east coasts benefited at the expense of mid western states. I.e. just gave you the explanation of Trump's victory. The last election was not about Trump or Obama, it was a referendum on Socialism and its faults.

and unfettered capitalism somehow doesn't, I assume.

You people are so stuck up your ass with a literal slave mentality it's actually sickening. But I guess that if no better alternative is possible, and all socialist politics always lead to HORRIBLE DISASTER, then there is no sense in even trying. Just drown in miserable solipsism and focus on "self-improvement" to increase your pitiful human capital.

Ignore the typos, Im sleepy, actually going to sleep. Remember: socialism is not communism, socialism should not be pushed as a widespread solution for all economies, communism is a meme and its dangerous, the socialism equals communism meme is pushed by the worst type of libertarians trying to make people fear any type of leftist ideology AKA "muh human rights".

>Obama was a socialist

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in Venezuela almost all are corrupts, become corrupts or they suffer in the hands of the corrupts, idk about bolivia

it's a socialist sympathetic (LOL guess who) site and socialism is just temporary until communism so its interchangeable .... even capitalism can made to work of fail... depending on what the hidden hands want

Funny that you mention the midwest, because that place was a bastion of American Socialism for many decades. Not only these Sewer Socialists did not destroy the local economies or establish Stalinist dictatorship, but they managed to create some of the most vibrant and successful communities in the nation, greatly benefiting the local working-classes like very few other places.

Hang in the Venebro! we are all with you guys.

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Not saying that someone does not get fucked in Capitalism. What I am saying is the government does not decide who wins or who loses. The Marketplace (aka people) determines winners and losers. As long as people believe there is possibility to win they will play the game. America has always been about choice. You can decide to play, fight, or hide. Socialism is true facism.

If there is no chance to win a game, why would anyone play... You can a lot from a Casino, or if the outcome is already determined that I will win why would someone play.

Not trying to shipost you but Nazi's were Socialist. That was their economy, they stoled their wealth from the Jews to build their Military Might.

This post perfectly demonstrates how fucking confused and confusing these terms ("socialism", "communism") are.

""""""""""""""JOURNALISM""""""""""""
Wow nice.

Surprise!!!!!!! Obama was a Socialist. He campaigned on taking from one to give to another...

>Human's are by nature greedy.

Libertarianism 101. See...I knew it, only libertarians would call anything as close as moderate center literal stalinist communism. "oh gosh darnit those Clinton neoliberal communists are about to start a gulag in California"

This.
How viable do you think some form of socialism could be if there were robots/automated factories that produce all of the food, clothing, houses, staple goods, etc.? This is the only way I could see it being somewhat viable.

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Everything is communism in boomerville here. I make fascism generals and they fill up with people calling it communism as well. The rest is anarchists calling it a corporate hellhole.

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In all honesty. Most of what we think of Communist Countries were not true Communist nations. They were socialists...

Yeah, its not """"REAL""""" Socialism, right?

Again, fueled by libertarian memes since the 1960's "commie busting" american times. Most Scandinavian countries are social democracies, but that literally means some type of left leaning neoliberal economy, and remember for purist lefties neolibs are right wingers, and for purist right wingers neolibs are commies.

Yes it is actual real socialism, are you even reading the whole thread you generic brainwashed gringo? Now communism, real communism happened in Cuba and Venezuela and that is fucked up, Trump invading and liberating when you assholes?

It's never true communism. Communism can only exist on paper. The powerful state erected to create and enforce the classless egalitarianism is self defeating.

>The Marketplace (aka people)
Don't you "the people with money"?

And what exactly do you think the government IS if not a representation of "the people" (the real one)? If you think the government is not accountable enough or is a corrupt self-serving mess, then I've got good news for you! Because that's exactly what socialists tend to fight to rectify! Socialists, especially modern ones, support massive and radical democratization, accountability and transparency plans for the government at all levels. "Campaign finance reform" is only the beginning.

When you really get down to it, and actually LISTEN to what Socialists are saying, you will soon discover that their central underlying guiding principle behind all that fancy talk of "the memes of production" or whatever is the vast and profound democratization of all areas of human life. Socialists want to increase human freedom and human choice, in a REAL, positive way.

They're also, until very recently, monoculture with stable immigration. Look at what's happening now. Govt. gibs attracts 3rd worlders like flies to shit.

Socialism will never be viable.

People always want more. Its just human nature. More than what they already have. One has to change human nature to no longer desire. Not happening.

Think of it like a video game. If you dominate that game, the game no longer has appeal, how long until you stop playing and find something else to do.

Bolivia's miner's revolt happened. If Bolivia cant mine and export their goods, to say a Capitalist country. Socialism fails.

BUILD THE WALL... No invasion... Letting those governments fail...

Only Shlomo would be interested in socialism. Of course.

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What do you think he means by neolib economies? These people could never enter a stable minded nation.

They weren't even socialist!
They were plain old dictatorships with "socialism" as the guiding legitimizing ideology, but nothing about them was in any way shape or form socialist! I mean, one of the most basic tenets of "Socialism" is the idea of worker self-direction ("controlling the means of production"). But when all firms are controlled by the state, and the state is an unaccountable bureaucratic monster that imposes its will top-down on the people, how could you ever say that the workers who work for it are "self-directed"?

PROTIP Some of the strongest criticisms of these nations came from socialists, people like George Orwell or Rosa Luxemburg. Even some of the internal rebellions in these countries were SOCIALIST rebellions, think the miner strikes in Romania, or Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Well Comfy thread with a based Israel user. Maybe someday I would be able to meme that socialism does not equal communism and that fascism is the best option in the end because you need to understand how the first statement about socialism is true.
See you later fags.

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Well, user, there is a literal game (pic related) whose outcome is predetermined and cannot be influenced by anything but purposefully messing up the card stack. If you're gonna use a metaphor, at least use one that works.

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I wonder if people like you are even capable of introspection, you regurgitate the most stupid things as if you can't think

The urban centres is where all the money comes from, farmers even get subsidies at the cost of everyone else

>How come Venezuela's socialism fails, when Bolivia's socialism succeeds?

Could it possibly be related to that giant lake of OIL that sits under Venezuela?

As Donald said recently, "Let's invade Venezuela"

Maduro is a retard, Morales is not.
Venezuela has Africa-tier corruption, Bolivia only standart Latin America tier

Bolivia sits on a mountain range of rare minerals

>If you dominate that game, the game no longer has appeal, how long until you stop playing and find something else to do.

That's what I was getting at. With all of your basic needs being met by machines, then we wouldn't have as much of a need for the free market. It becomes more about managing our finite resources in the best possible way.

Robots and automation handling all basic needs is eventually going to be a reality. If we don't destroy ourselves first anyway.

Venezuela s economy is mostly private but they like to parade as socialists just as the psd here is pretending to be social democratic

No filthy creollos oppressing natives

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I mean people who have currency in their pockets. (i.e. rich, middle class, poor).

Socialists fight for their own benefit and power not for sake of injustice or the people. They only care about power and fight for their perceived morals and values of what they believe the world should be not what the world is. Its hard to take any Socialist seriously because of NAZI Germany. The NAZIs are example of what well motivated Socialist can do to the people. Adolf Hitler tarnished all Socialists.

Take a shit in a box. Add make up. Its still a shit.

Socialism generally leads to communism. A lot of them get the problems with capitalism right though. It's funny reading old socialist books and seeing how right they were, but then seeing how their prescriptions work out. Generally speaking, most of the smarter socialists wrote these interesting books and in some cases, even just short pamphlets, before this insane wave of ethnomasochism took off in the west. It used to just be intellectuals arguing over economies and government etc. Now we argue about that and have to worry about literal retards flooding the country,outbreeding native populations, and upsetting whatever little balance there already is when discussing things like this.

That's why a third position such as national socialism is OK. It must focus on the right people (Generally speaking whites) however without a unifying faith it all becomes too materialistic and degenerate. Orthodox Fascism such as Codreanu wanted or an Orthodox Christian Monarchy is best.

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On to the "Nazis were socialist" - no. The Nazis straight up weren't socialist. That name is false advertising (weird, how that happens in capitalist societies the most, eh?) and chosen because the Germans of the time were in love with socialism (seeing how Germany developed from the onset of the industrial revolution I can see why). "Stealing the gold teeth after auschwitzing the Jews" is not socialism. That's an authoritarian government looking for funds.
Can you pleas define socialism in such a way that it includes "stealing from the news to buy guns" as being what socialism is all about?

As said, socialism has its time and place. I have to slightly disagree, because I don't know if and Ding think that social democracy would be such a large detriment to the USA (I don't know either way). I think that some aspects of some of the problems in the USA could be solved with social democracy, I think. Then again, I subscribe to Kantian legal philosophy and as such I believe things like "education is a right to not just the wealthy". How silly of me.

Hitler loathed Marxism though

So does Bolivia....

To even get to this "full-automation", you first need to diminish the force of the free market.
As long as human labor is cheaper than automation, it's human labor that's going to do the unnecessary and dreary manual work.

It's actually what helped Britain kickstart the industrial revolution in the 18th century - wage in Britain were abnormally high, while coal was somewhat cheap. This made capital investment in labor-saving machines viable and profitable.
As long as you allow capital to keep encroaching on more areas of human life, and as long as you allow it power over nations and people, full automation would not be achieved.

Look to free trade and offshoring for the perfect example: Instead of investing in labor-saving machines, firms choose to relocate factories to dirt-poor third world countries, because hiring some Indian boy to sew your sneakers is cheaper than making a specialize machine that does that automatically. In the short-term, the third-world countries benefit, they get what are comparatively good jobs (but still awful by any objective standard). In the long run, we ALL get fucked. This creates a Race to the Bottom situation, where, because there is no one polity capable of representing all working classes in all nations, and capital barriers between nations are all but gone, no one nation can improve the conditions of its shoe-sewing boys without the factory simply relocating to some other nation where labor conditions are still shittier.

Oh okay.

So you saying you like Candy Land, a little kids game... Do I need to say it out loud about you.

Bolivia is forcing slave labor to mine.... i.e. Miners revolt.

I know what you're doing but
>saying neoliberals are on the left
Over here that's definitely considered a right of centre position.

I think you added the stealing teeth thing to not get arrested by your dystopian government. It's ok brother. You're right in that it's not really the same type of "socialist" though. It's somewhat tough to explain. It's really a movement that's unique to each country it happens in.

Nationalist Socialist Party... Ring a bell...

And Lufthansa enslaves their pilots, because they striked several times during the past years?

How come the Soviet Union's socialism fails, when Scandinavian socialism succeeds?

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Way to prove your intellectual dishonesty, though.
Instead of engaging with what's argued, you just want to keep perpetuating mantras and dogmas they taught you in the Cato Institute.

I do wonder, though. Are you wealthy? Are you poor? Do you even work or are you some teenage Ayn Randist?

Again, Hitler loathed Marxism and stressed, that he has a different definition for socialism. Read "Mein Kampf" and you will understand, that "red" socialism is vastly different from national socialism

Hitler loathed Communism because it was a competing party. Not because of the ideas. The difference between Communism and Socialism in WWII is a lot like asking for the difference between Coke and Pepsi. One is in red the other in blue, and one is a little sweater than the other.

Neoliberals always enforce migration and some argue (I don't), that migration is an inherently left issue.

Because Bolivia isn’t practicing real socialism.

What does the Nazi emblem say Socialist???

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Bolivia succeeds? It's a shithole.

Funny how it always goes.

The answer this for me. Why do you give a shit if ICE separates families???

Socialism doesn't drive innovation. It would never be able to develop the tech. The US innovates and is the most successful because of the free market. Once theres tech, it gets hacked into a million other awesome things. This will exponential grow once nanotech and 3d printing get much better. It won't need to be contained in centralized factories controlled by socialist government or free market corporations. New tech will go viral in the coming decades.

Picking winners and losers. Try to pay attention. i.e. Miners Revolt.

National Socialism valued the achievements of the individual whereas the reds at least pretended to believe in absolute egalitarianism. Wow so complicated hurr durr redpill n shiet.

Read a book.

>Why do you give a shit if ICE separates families??
I generally don't because it's happening half a world away.
It's still awful because families should not be separated, though? Like how would YOU feel if you were forcibly separated from your family?

And commies did not????

Then why did the Russians value "Heros?"

To be a hero would require individual achievement...

I don't fully trust kek flags because they are memed so hard but you truly need to read about it. It's insanely hard to summarize. As I mentioned before it's somewhat unique to the area it's in. It's also not Godless like communism. Germany had kind of a paganism thing going, Romania had Orthodox Christianity, Italy had a Roman thing going. It's referred to as third position for a reason. It's not quite capitalism and it's not quite socialism. Also socialism is not communism. I like most of the conservative youtubers etc, but this is one thing they are pretty wrong on.

As he said you can read Mein Kampf, or you can read For My Legionaries by Corneliu Codreanu, or some books from Evola (or maybe just the summary from an Italian group, I'm too tired to remember the name at the moment). Again it's hard to quickly summarize. It's a national "feeling" and different in each area. Also it's generally anti-jewish=anti-crony capitalism where as communism is pretty much 80%+ jewish.

You are just parroting the same shit over and over again, without using any arguments. How low is your IQ you nigger? Ar least read some parts of Mein Kampf, before accusing Hitler of Marxism. Jesus Christ

Corruption isn't bad.
If you're at the top.

The program start 20 years. It took socialist 20 years figure this out... hmmmm... Sounds fishy. Why only care about illegals and not your own citizens. In the US we of course separate families when the parents commit crimes????

Oh to add to this, after "socialism is not communism", "normal" socialism can somewhat easily be turned into communism. So that also may hold you up on the differences too.

>While U.S. chipmakers produced incremental improvements in size and speed, the Japanese government spent hundreds of millions of dollars on entirely new chip designs, so that by the mid-1980’s, Japanese companies captured the majority of the market and the U.S. industry seemed to be on its way out. The U.S. government responded with three initiatives. The first two, the Very High Speed Integrated Circuit (VHSIC) program and Very Large Scale Integration (VLSI), were funded by the Department of Defense and DARPA respectively, and helped U.S. companies catch up to Japanese technology. The third, Sematech, represented one of the most successful government-industry collaborations. With joint funding from ARPA and many leading chipmakers, Sematech advanced U.S. chipmakers past Japanese competition and saved a $150 billion dollar industry. Both the private sector and the government contributed to the development of the microchip, but the continued existence of a U.S. industry owes a great debt to the federal government.

longviewinstitute.org/projects/marketfundamentalism/microchip/

That goes for every system in existence. Feudalism is great, if you are not a serf. Communism is great, if you're at least a mid tier party member. Fascism is great, if you belong to the right ethnic group.

Unlike you I don't have enough brain damage to play games for little children. Unlike you I have a little niece I need to take care of (real life and responsibilities, you know?).