Best reasons for or against single payer or universal healthcare

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Alright, my turn. I worked in a prison for 6 Years and your story has holes in it. For instance they do have on site doctors and nurses. 2nd for specialty doctors we would esxort them to the hospitals orange jumpsuits and all belly chains, ankle chains, armed escort.
So I really have a hard time believing you worked in a prison. Moving on to the VA argument. It's over crowded of course because we have literally millions of veterans and I don't know 10s of thousands VA hospitals? I honestly just made that number up.
But if we had universal health care than this wouldn't be a problem because they could go where ever they wanted when ever they wanted, and think of this way as well, since everyone on the right hates government departments, universal Healthcare would abolish the VA

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Good points

>For instance they do have on site doctors and nurses.
We have nurses and one on site doctor for specialty sections of the prison (ours happens to have a psychiatric unit so they get their own doctor, the rest of the farm gets a doc in a box).
We do off the farm escorts too, it just isn't for routine shit. If you need a surgery, sure you get taken to the local hospital. If you need an update on your cough you get the doc in a box.
Additionally we likely worked in different states, our inmates don't wear orange. We do have armed escorts (depending on security level, but it is always at least 2 armed officers)
Universal healthcare wouldn't abolish the VA it would make the VA big enough for everyone, it would be underfunded and understaffed.

people like YOU will waste my mother's tax dollars and thus I will lose out on my precious tendies

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Single payer system = redistribution of other people's poor life choices and bad genetics.

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Well it wouldn't abolish it right away, I shouldn't have worded it like that per say, but with universal Healthcare veterans wouldn't have to go to the VA for their Healthcare, and with its bad reputation people would immediately opt out of even going to the VA now that they are free to choose where they want to go. Maybe it would stay open to fill the jobs but they would be no where busy, one day the gov might say "let's just close it down, we don't need it anymore" that would be my prediction at least.

Also what level are your inmates?

Because it would add $32trillion dollars to the deficit over 10 years and bankrupt our country faster than anything imaginable

And if everyone paid 10 cents in America for Healthcare, you would be covered if some dumb ass chic slammed into you at a stop light cause she was texting or drunk and you get spine injury that keeps you from working.

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I would rather pay 4% of my income and have everyone covered than pay 10% of my income to just cover my family. Fuck redistribution of wealth, this is about cold hard cash savings.

That's not a accurate number

We have all levels of inmates from G1-adseg.
I am obviously not gonna say where I work but we don't have a death row but we have everyone below that.
The fact is that all government healthcare is shit, it ought to be an option/safety net, but not a reliable plan. The VA is shit, medicare as it is drains resources like crazy, the prison medical system is shit, county healthcare facilities are a joke.
Lets say one of them isn't busy and they shut it down, what happens to that community? Rural communities who don't have enough people to use a full service always get screwed by these kinds of government programs. They pay for it in their taxes, but receive nothing.

Universal health care only works when shitskins aren't a significant portion of the population.

government distorting the market fucks up everything, that's why healthcare is so expensive you moron.

Because that would be socialism user, we need that taxpayers money to fund the military industrial complex and endless war.
Redistribution of wealth isn't called socialism when it's for helping the war industry though so it's okay :^)

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Against: Niggers

paying for a military isn't socialism you kike in disguise

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Wait times, quality of service, order of priority (your 75yo grandpa is good as dead if he need a kidney transplant)

Socialism do not work. It simply doesn't.
First you tax the hell out of the top 10% corporations. What happens ? They go bankrupt or flee the country. Your main tax income is gone. You still have to pay for the 90% remaining people. Who do we tax next ? The middle class. What happens ? There's no longer a middle class. Everyone is poor, except the government.
It really is a no brainer.

>Paying taxes for healthcare is socialism
>Paying taxes for firefighters is socialism
>Paying taxes for muh roads is definitely socialism
>Paying taxes at all is socialism reee!
>Except for our beloved war industry!
>Please take more taxpayers money I love the military industrial complex!

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Good post. Medical education is one money grab after the next, then as they are taking our last shekel they try to guilt us into working with welfare nigs and old people. Fuck that shit I’m cashing in.

google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/single-payer-health-care-would-have-an-astonishingly-high-price-tag/2017/06/18/9c70dae6-52d2-11e7-be25-3a519335381c_story.html

Fuck off retard

>Washington post

google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/single-payer-health-care-would-have-an-astonishingly-high-price-tag/2017/06/18/9c70dae6-52d2-11e7-be25-3a519335381c_story.html

You see?

Links to a study in the article

WaPo is incredibly left leaning, which makes this anti liberal story have more credibility

All great points, except the Europoors live longer than we do, (fucking amazing considering their smoking and alcohol consumption), and they pay considerably less for Universal than we do for private. As said, I would rather pay 4% for everyone than pay 10% just to cover my family.
But apart from that you were spot on.

The government's going to mess it up

I'm poor.

They don't pay anything it's throw their taxes

You may think that, but you underestimate just how expensive it is to care for all the lazy, stupid, fat people who smoke a pack of day, eat like shit and never get off the couch. For a redpill look up the cost of dialysis alone on Medicaid.

What if it's only for certain reasons, like excluding bad genetics. If your health problem is resulted from bad genes then you are not covered.

Well yeah, Im a bong, I know how it works. I was talking about what percentage of my income is paid between the two countries. Just cos its through taxes dosent mean its not getting paid.

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The Euros smoke and drink far more than the US. The only thing that is really bad in the US is obesity, and that in itself would be reduced since Universal is preventative by nature. (Something that is very lacking in the US).

That's because in America you have corrupt politicians protecting the monopolies of private healthcare companies and big pharma. That's cronyism, as bad as socialism.

Healthcare is not a right.

keep projecting commie

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Because when everybody is responsible of their own health, people are more likely to live healthy lives so they avoid having to resort to going to the hospital, etc...

I understand some people want to be fat sacks of shit chainsmoking all day, but nobody else but them should suffer their poor choices.

I totally agree, and I honestly think Universal would be worth it, (even if only for a decade or so), just to get that shitshow away from the cash register.

see

because oligarchs can't get rich from nationalised health services, praise be to the billionaires

Let me clear this up. Universal healthcare’s viability is much like the viability of any other social program. If you have a high trust, homogeneous society of hard working honest people, social benefits can be expanded. People will use them appropriately, and generally value similar things. The more heterogenous your population is, the more unequal it becomes. People have different values and the wealth distribution becomes more drastic. You inevitably then get freeloaders who consume far more then they put in, and successful people who pay far more into the system then they get in return. The US cannot have socialized healthcare for this very reason.

Pregnancy is a matter of health.

The birth and long term survival of many white children is the only way to win the Demographics race with the 3rd world hoards since sterilization and culling is off the table.

Is the future of civilisation something that should be left to the hand of the market? Does the market care if it sells a billion pairs sneakers to a billion illiterate iq80 brain stunted niggers or a hundred million computers to a hundred million civilised humans?

No of course not. The market is a tool that needs to beaten around the head and tamed so that it serves us and the not the scheming rats that worm their way into places of influence. The market is not the be all and end all of western civilisation.

You wouldn't say that if you were highly taxed to pay for healthcare. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I practice sports, I don't see why I should be punished and have to pay for some random people with a deplorable lifestyle.

I mean, universal healthcare sounds nice and all, but in the end somebody's got to pay. You probably don't care because you win in this situation, your poor choices are paid by others' tax money, but meanwhile I could earn nearly twice as much if I didn't have to pay to support others.
I earn minimum wage, which is 1500 before my taxes, 1150 after tax, and that is not counting that my boss pays the same amount in taxes just because I work for him.

So my boss pays 3000 euros to employ me (my wages before taxes, and charges for boss), and I only get 1150 in the end.

Thank you, socialism. I'm so glad arabic women can shit their rats thanks to my hard earned money.

>so they avoid having to resort to going to the hospital
This is one of the biggest reasons why US healthcare is so expensive. (And also why Americans die earlier than Europoors). Preventative medicine is far far cheaper than than trying to fix a problem afterwards. Americans are frequently being pushed to massively expensive procedures with issues that should have been caught and dealt with long before they became a cause for long term medical care. Universal is all about keeping people healthier, longer, instead of saving up their problems until you can milk them financially to death.

Yes it’s preventative in nature but do you know how hard it is to get niggers and stupid people to actually go to the doctor? Even if it was free they wouldn’t come and definitely wouldn’t follow up.

Any sort of socialized healthcare is a poor idea since it assumes that a good/service is a right. At that end of the day that means if the money runs out or isn't well managed you have to start forcing people to do shit for free. And don't come at me about other countries that have "great free healthcare" because none of them can even come close to compare with the US size and culture. Ever since the rulings that hospitals can't refuse medical care to people in emergencies the ERs in massive cities like New York have become flooded with so many people they can't even handle it. Do you think a hospital room with as many beds packed into it as possible is good health care?

>This is one of the biggest reasons why US healthcare is so expensive. (And also why Americans die earlier than Europoors). Preventative medicine is far far cheaper than than trying to fix a problem afterwards.
Nah, it's people being overweight and obese. And preventive in this case would mean : have physical activities and stop stuffing your fat face like a pig.

And yeah, preventive can be good, but the healthier you live, the less you'd need it up to a certain age I guess. Still, doesn't mean anybody should pay for your excesses or your genetic defects.

Sigh. To be fair, its a very good point. Americans by nature are very destructive towards themselves as much as each other, and the black community are just beyond fucked up. I would like to think that it could be learned behavior, and within a generation or two it would be 'normal', but from what I've seen in the schools learned behavior dosent come easy to nigs. And thats been longer than two generations now.

Just like the illegal kids at the border, the commie argument is always the appeal to emotion. They say that we are heartless and egoistic. But that's not true. I can assure you that the majority of libertarians will voluntary contribute to the best of their ability if a dying person can't pay for treatment. That's the human spirit. Being controlled by a nanny government that picks and chose who gets our money is a slave mentality.

Let me show you why universal healthcare is bad, particularly in the USA.

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In Europe we are headed for some pretty authoritarian measures and restriction of personal freedoms because the cost of healthcare is out of control.
It makes perfect sense because the government can't address the root of the problem : non white population and fiscal burden keeps growing which leads to a deficit ("trou de la sécu" is what we call it)
Eventually all vehicles will be limited to a low speed to cut on road injuries, any carcinogenic product will be taxed through the roof or forbidden (80% tax right now), there will be severe limits on how much alcohol you can consume etc etc and it only gets worse from there on out

Socialized healthcare is a nightmare if you enjoy liberty.

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Social healthcare is fine on paper, assuming most of the population are generally healthy, including living healthy lifestyles, and the entirety of the working age population is working (on account of being kept healthy by both their lifestyles and healthcare).
Assuming people who are say diabetic get their medication, the incentive for them to keep producing wealth to contribute to said system is there. I have no problem with any of this.

The problem is, as other anons have said, is that any form of socialism is ripe for abuse. The NHS right here was a great idea when it was implemented, because at the time we had no foreign leeches, very little unemployment, having a twisted ankle didn't make you paraplegic etc. and it worked at first, but it was been abused to breaking point, and rather than address the abuse, and put in place safeguards to prevent it, they just keep throwing money at it. Shame really.

You can't have my steam ID

Everytime I see Americans discuss their healthcare system I can't help but to put on the biggest smile.

Fully privatized healthcare and no option for single payer healthcare is an abomination.
See it's an result of private prisons run by corporations who are for profit and offer the cheapest care possible to maximize profits.

Systems like we have in Germany have literally only advantages for the individuals. You Americans can probably not imagine this, but I can live my life however I want and I do not have to worry about financial ruin from sickness. When I get sick then the only thing I need to worry about is how I can regain my health. That is it.

However, this will probably not work for the Mutt because the Mutt is fat and can never be of good health. The Mutts food, soil, water and air are poisoned and it is getting worse by the day. Can't have universal healthcare when your people let the government poison your citizens, and your citizens poison themselves on a daily basis.

What exactly is wrong with the Affordable Healthcare Act?

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Because you'll end up like Sweden, it's not as good as you think.

turns out its not very affordable

That would require the system to be run by competent people.

Our system had surpluses across most providers in the past periods. :^)

How is Germany’s health system holding up with the hundreds of thousands of new Germans?

Best reason: If giving free health care comes with sterilization, it will make the genetic rejects of our society happy and healthy while keeping them from exploding in population
Best against: if we give free health care without sterilization poor people will reproduce with their bad health and quickly cause dysgenics and strain the welfare safetynet to the breaking point.

>comparing prisoners to normal people
Yeah I wonder why the doctors don't give a shit about patient they don't have the resouces to treat well or that are even worth being treated good

>it's an result of private prisons run by corporations who are for profit and offer the cheapest care possible to maximize profits.
I work for a public prison. The entire "prison industrial complex" is a meme. It costs WAY more to feed, house and care for an inmate than it would cost to just fucking hire someone at $7.50 an hour.
Inmate labor is generally shit, most of the work is just busy work to keep the institution clean or to reduce the hemorrhaging of funds. Most inmate labor is janitorial work, food service (or agricultural) or is making stuff for the state such as boots for inmates, tables, chairs, or uniforms.
Private prisons are dying out anyway, they get their money from the state, not the inmates.

Too many spics and niggers that won’t pay back into the system.

Because they have an oath, you are still a fucking human even if you are behind bars.

its exactly socialism you retard.
socialism is necissary, so is capitalism
when you go all in on either one all you get is jews user. you just have to have the right socialist policies; ones that do not promote overpopulation and disgenics and for capitalism; ones that do not promote the destruction of your own environment to make quick cash and allow the selling out of your government to corporations.

Pretty well actually.

You mean they are getting their money from the taxpayer. Your prison system is a joke. Of course it is expensive as fuck to incarcerate inmates. This is why the companies are making such huge profits.

>the "americans are afraid of socialism" meme is true

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This

How is it able to support so many new people without additional income? Or have taxes raised to support it?

>You mean they are getting their money from the taxpayer. Your prison system is a joke. Of course it is expensive as fuck to incarcerate inmates. This is why the companies are making such huge profits.
Most of the cost is in high turnover of staff and healthcare. 3 meals are cheap, the mattress is cheap, they buy their own phone calls and electricity is dirt cheap in my state.

The single best reason for socialized healthcare is that in a hypothetical homogeneous western community with all of our advances in medicine and philosophy and our wealth there is no reason we can't take care of our own.

That of course doesn't work outside of that safe homogeneous society.

The costs will balloon as the population grows. If you lived in some small comfy nation it would be just fine, but here in the states you have people coming to get emergency services and expensive procedures they never plan on repaying. Also consider that the mentally ill want their transmogrification paid for by the same single player system.

>seeing doctor over a tablet

I would appreciate something like this for the healthcare I receive. I have insurance but the only doctor I can get timely appointments in is several towns over and my work schedule is often in conflict with available appointment times. It's a big waste of time and money for gas to drive that far for what amounts to a 15 minute checkup and renewal of the prescriptions I receive.

government cant manage shit. look at what happened to the veterans

Person A is gainfully employed, eats reasonably healthy, exercises every day, takes vitamins, and gets a physical every other year. Person B is on unemployment, eats fast food every day, spends 80 hours a week on the couch, hasn't seen his penis in six years.

Person A shouldn't have to be responsible for himself AND Person B.

Google "doc in a box" your insurance may cover it.

It's actually super simple.

We already have universal health care for our military and it's abissmal.

>healthcare
Define healthcare. What exactly are you talking about? Do you want a healthy society or just gibsmedats? Seriously, I want to play but we need to define terms.

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Gibs breed dependence, dependence breeds control. Healthcare as a service is better, because if the service provided is poor, you can walk away from it and select another. With standardized healthcare, do you have the same options available, where you are the customer?

The problem isn't with the way healthcare is handled. The problem is with welfare and illegals. Cull the parasites from our society and the problem sorts itself out.

Can you really blame them after decades of propaganda?
It takes a special kind of evil to turn the citizens of a country against one another. These days the homeless, poor and sickly are the enemy for many Americans and according to them deserve to be punished instead of helped. It really is horrible from a modern and humanitarian point of view.

It's like what we had during the industrialization with calvinism.

The majority of cost for the healthcare system comes from the old and those with chronic disease. Most people over here are healthy. The immigrants who came here recently are healthy too. Makes sense, since they probably could not have made their journey to Europe if they have had serious illnesses.

I did a quick google search just to show you that I do not make this shit up:
thelocal.de/20170726/new-report-shows-how-immigrants-are-stabilizing-germanys-social-safety-net

And yet your prison system is for profit and really ineffective at what it should do. You basically mass incarcerate so the prisons can make money, do not do a lot to rehabilitate the inmates and then toss them out into the real world without any perspective.
pic related is a German prison cell. Those are not run to be for profit.

vice.com/sv/article/exqbgn/german-prisons-are-kinder-gentler-and-safer-than-the-ones-in-america-617
businessinsider.com.au/vera-institute-european-american-prison-report-2014-5
laprogressive.com/german-prisons/

Sadly, you will never be able to reform it because of massive corporate interest and lobbying power. Also, "Jail" is a horrible third world concept that is only used to raise corporate money too.

forgot to add the picture
random prison cell in Germany from one of the articles that I linked in my previous post

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>Ever since the rulings that hospitals can't refuse medical care to people in emergencies the ERs in massive cities like New York have become flooded with so many people they can't even handle it.
That’s because the poor can’t afford insurance, so instead of getting preventative routine care they wait until they’re literally dying and can’t be turned away. They end up going to the ER instead of a GP. If we had universal healthcare most, if not all of this would be eliminated.

I have a job. I have health insurance. I don't want to wait 3 months to see a doctor if I break my arm.

>for single payer/universal healthcare
provides a way for the poor and lower middle class to afford unlimited or nearly unlimited access to medicine/treatment
>against
more expensive than a purely competitive healthcare/insurance scheme
limited supply and increased demand
less incentive for people to work in healthcare
less incentive for r&d
not invulnerable to bureaucracy

socialized healthcare is pretty fucking stupid, although a highly regulated insurance system coupled with entities like medicare/medicaid are arguably worse.

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>Best reasons for single payer or universal healthcare

because healthcare is a product with in-elastic demand

This is a myth that gets perpetuated by your media for some reason.
It is not true at all.
Here is an example of how it actually works:
youtube.com/watch?v=Mwantba05Y0

>And yet your prison system is for profit and really ineffective at what it should do. You basically mass incarcerate so the prisons can make money, do not do a lot to rehabilitate the inmates and then toss them out into the real world without any perspective.
Very few prisons are private. 7% of state prisons are private and the federal government is taking over all private prisons. Meaning that in about 5 years only 7% of prisons will be private..
So lets do some math, 1,719 state prisons exist in america. that means that about 120 prisons in america are private (pending the federal private prison closures) And that number is shrinking.

Post her tits

You freeloader kraut. American health system drives inovation to the medical field. How many medical inovations do your system bring to the world vs the american one.
I hope the new germans give you aids. You fucking subhuman. Do us a favor and kys.

Kill yourself your mother hates you