No, I don't mean a trade war. Like, actual war. There's no way China can win in a conventional war. It can't feed itself, and 80% of its oil relies on passage through the gulf, the indian ocean, and malacca straight, all of which the US and its allies control. Not to mention losing access to export markets. Here's what prompted this thinking:
quora.com
So why not go for it? Serious answers only please
"Does the US army still have the capability to defeat China in a conventional war?"
"I will use an answer I used in another similar thread.
It is not simply the numbers of men, tanks, planes and ships its the ability to sustain the war. China cannot sustain a large war over a longer duration for the below reasons, while the US can.
Yes the US would win easily and this is why. Despite US superiority in its military and that the US and its allies vastly outmatch China in most areas it is not conflict that will win the war.
It is control of resources or specifically energy. China imports 80% of its oil from the Persian Gulf. The US Navy controls the Persian Gulf, Arabian Sea and has a large presence in the Indian Ocean, it has dozens of bases throughout all the regions mentioned along with large ground and air forces, let alone naval.
Without this oil supply the Chinese economy would collapse in a matter of weeks. China has no way presently to contest the oceans against the huge US forces present in this region let alone fight the US Navy on the open seas. While China has advantages 1500km from its main land due to land based missiles and aircraft. A blockade of Chinese oil 7000km away in the Persian Gulf results in a collapse of Chinas economy and China has very few military assets that can reach this far, nothing that can challenge the huge US military presence. Oil supplies from Russia can be easily cut with some missiles on the Chinese side of the border, other pipe lines or railways can also be hit which transport oil from international destinations, railways and pipelines don't move. China has no capability to do the same to the US, let alone the US has the majority of its oil supplies under its own feet or from Canada and Mexico. In pure energy supplies the US can conduct a long war while China needs a short sharp war prior to oil supplies running out."
Because we just pissed off the rest of the world with our tariffs and the last time a country took on the entire world it got cucked
But a lot of shit we buy come from them. Think the average murican wants to spend 5k on phone?
Plus, there's no reason to go to war with China, it is not even close to worth it.
"On top of this what would the loss of China’s exports markets mean, certainly the US market is gone. The EU would also be doubtful along with many of the other US allies which also happen to be Chinas biggest export markets. The US can also force the issue and institute a complete Naval blockade 3000 miles from Chinas coast and China can do very little to prevent this.
So China is now in a position that it cannot get the oil it needs to keep it’s economy running, let alone keep hundreds of millions Chinese employed. It also lose much of its export markets a double jeopardy. The US can keep most of its oil supply and a large part of its exports to Europe, however exports only make up 11% of US GDP. While China has a large reserve it will not last longer then 3 months if that. I'm sure US strategist know this, in fact the US can play defensive if they like, mustering there forces for months outside of Chinese military capabilities to hit them and launch a large offensive once they know Chinese oil reserves are hurting.
How long will the 200 million Chinese vehicles put up with no fuel to drive them. That's a lot of angry people, let alone the hundreds of millions who will be without work. Who will they blame as trains stop working, trucks transporting food stop working, good and services cease to move around the nation.
This is why China wants to move to an all electric car fleet by 2030 which is very ambitious, as they understand they cannot win a war vs the US under present conditions. China can certainly do a sudden strike and a limited war but should the US choose to fight and prolong the war using its strategic advantage in energy and time China loses. This is another reason for Chinas play in the south china sea to try and tap its vast resources oil and gas, however even these are easily targeted by long range missiles. Oil rigs are easy targets."
"Right now China cannot win a major war vs the US. The only wars China could win is a sudden rapid strike like taking Taiwan prior to the US being able to intervene, then its up to the US if they want to expend the huge resources to expel the Chinese forces. This is the only real way China can fight and win until they can either match the US Navy on the open seas and win (unlikely to ever happen) or it has very limited dependence on foreign oil. Both options are decades away.
Chinese intervention in North Korea as an example exposes China to all of the above risks. Let alone the military risks. Look at the map of China, its coast line. All of its Naval ports are well within US striking range from its bases and naval forces. The PLA Navy has no where to hide, it can be targeted and sunk in the opening days of any conflict as it simply has now where to go except deep up river and into the interior for ships that can get that far. While the bulk of the US Navy remains well outside of Chinese weapons range, not able to be sunk in the opening days of conflict. A Chinese Admiral said a few years ago, that in the event of war with the US he would not expect the PLA Navy to last more then 100 hours with the bulk of it sunk for the above reasons. In order for the PLA Navy to survive it needs to break out into the open ocean which wont happen as it needs to pass through Japanese/US controlled areas or that of US allies. With out a Navy China loses its ability to protect its sea lanes, its islands and its territorial claims."
YEAH KILLEM
"Unfortunately for China it cannot devote the resources required to beat the US Navy let alone the US, Japanese, Australian and likely British and other allies that will aide the US. China has to many potential enemies on all sides with massive land borders, its needs a large Army to protect its borders unlike the US. The US can focus on its Navy and Air forces and project power while China has limited ability to do so. If China fails to keep a large Army it risks being defeated on land which opens it up to invasion, let alone the ability to put down internal revolts. China needs to choose, is it a Naval power or a Land power.
Like Zhukov once said to a Russian Admiral when they wanted to build spend more resources on a Russian Navy prior to World War II. Zhukov said, why. In every war Russia has fought in the last 200 years the Russian Navy has scuttled itself in the opening phases, meaning scuttled or been sunk. Land powers should invest in their advantages. If Germany had built more submarines and forgot about a surface fleet then victory in the Atlantic may have occurred, starving Britain out of the war. China will lose most of its fleet in any war vs the US, against anyone else they could certainly win one on one, against the US and its allies it has no hope so why waste the resources. China would be better off focusing on nuclear attack submarines in massive numbers, forget the surface fleet. Keep a limited fleet to fly the flag, invest in Subs and more subs as power projection. This would certainly keep US Admirals awake a night far more then a Chinese Carrier or 3. Learn the lessons of history, you cannot defeat the established naval powers at such a disadvantaged. Submarines however offer an ability at least for now. Even that though is being eroded as the US develops swarms of drone Subs which seems to be the future of underwater warfare."
"Chinese commentators are convinced there long range ballistic missiles are the answer to hitting carriers, however the US will not need carriers close to China to win this war. The US wont need to expose its fleet to Chinese missiles as US & Japanese forces can use air and missile forces to launch long range stand off anti-ship missiles to sink the bulk of the Chinese fleet. The PLA Navy has nowhere to go, it cannot retreat over land deeper into China. The US can let its air forces, missiles and subs deal with the PLA Navy. US Stealth aircraft B-2, F-22 and F-35 will begin to degrade and destroy Chinas capability to detect, communicate and control its own forces. At the same time China has no capability to destroy US C4 as it is safe in the continental US other then via cyber attacks which the US can also use.
How long can China fight a war with no imported oil, no overseas export markets, not long 2 months at most. By that stage the US will just be bringing it full forces into the conflict."
quora.com
What do we gain from it? Literally nothing except a billion chinks to take care of unless we nuke them then there’s 100 million glow in the dark chinks with a broken pile of rubble to rebuild.
What’s the point?
>pissed off rest of the world
EU, Mexico and Canada are irrelevant though. Japan, India, Taiwan are all american allies no matter what because they hate china
they have big bomb
Ever heard of mutually assured destruction, it will end in nuclear warfare. This is why everyone who uses a meme flag should not be allowed to associate with people with at least average intellectual capacity or above.
>it is not even close to worth it.
why not? you depose the CCP from power and divide up the land/spoils among allies like India, Japan, SK
>ignoring the fact that both sides have atomic bombs
Are you autistic?
Ikr, memeflags are always the dumbest.
>what do we gain
see plus you get to liberate tibet, xinjiang, hong kong and install a puppet into power?
Have you not learned from the U.S war in the ME, that occupying a nation doesn't work, especially third world shitholes like that. You can't genocide a population without half the world's nations bitching and complaining and then blacklisting you. China isn't worth the trouble.
>why doesn't the US declare war on one of its biggest trade partners, investors, and the location a significant portion of its products sold are manufactured?
YEAH COLONIZE EM
be serious now. are you seriously unwilling to confront china in any conventional war because of nukes? seriously, SERIOUSLY?
>why not go for it
It would trigger the shit out of the rest of the world. Literally 252 countries vs 1. Doesn’t seem worth it.
>little over 200
>more than half of these are probably barely functional
>thinks it's more than a thorn in the side
Wew, lad.
Why fight them with bullets and bombs when we can destroy them without ever firing a shot? Don't be a brute, OP. There are other ways to dominate your enemies than military conquest.
I’m not going to die because I got fucking bonded by chinks
*Bombed
Sorry typo
OP is probably from a second world irreverent European country who thinks all Americans are dumb yet knows nothing about the responsibilities of a super power because their country is probably a puppet to a super power like the United States or Russia.
but you occupied japan and no one gave, or still gives a shit
advocating for a nuclear war.
fucking kikes need to be purged
You brainlets always use high-tech items as your example of how American would suffer in a trade war. Here is a clue, all tech based chip-based fab plants are entirely automated. It doesn't cost anymore to run a room of robots in Indianapolis vs Shenzhen. Cost difference for high technology is going to be negligible.
The only real cost difference is for plastic shit we buy from chinks; forks, trinkets, $5 headphones that break after a week. The short term cost will be marginally more for all the disposable crap you fill your life with, but on the upside your long term spending would go down as you'd stop poisoning yourself with such much chemical laden crap and instead use durable goods. Stop drinking out of the 100 BPA + Lead cups you bought at Save-A-Center and start drinking out of a proper glass.
>Japan, India, Taiwan are all american allies no matter what because they hate china
Not so fast bucko
trump's trade war is to cut off all trade with China. the logical next step is obvious war war
I agree that conventionally China can't win in the air and at sea but if you want one reason we shouldn't fight, I will give you one reason: China has nukes.
This is the only time I'll ever say it and only because of the context regarding nuclear war but...
ISRAEL FIRST
You are implying that half ARE in fact functional. That means 100 nukes from China can potentially hit the US. That’s a big problem lad
>destroy them without firing a shot
how?
>conventional war
gaining what?
you really don't see what's transpiring?
so you're unwilling to confront them in any conventional war just because there's the 1/10000th chance you might get nuked?
>the logical next step is obvious war war
The most amerimutt sentence I have ever heard.
how does one liberate buddhists?
Why? O why Kissinger, and everyone of them since then? Why?
idiot. India hates the fuck out of China
Are you willing? Are you willing to die for your country and destroy another persons land for your Jewish overlords bidding?
rescue BBQ doggos
>why don't we cause untold human suffering for no reason
sage
>Japan, India, Taiwan are all american allies no matter what because they hate china
Also.
Oy vey he's being logical shut it down!
because they're oppressed by CCP. have you never heard of #freetibet?
what's transpiring?
...
The best option is to let them kill each other in a civil war
why not? china's the enemy
You mean 1/10000th chance you might not get nuked right? Cause that's about how likely a direct war against a nuclear power doesn't end with both sides being radioactive craters.
1. Raise tariffs
2. High tariffs cause pressure on Chinese businesses.
3. Pressure causes NLP (Non-Performing Loans) to skyrocket.
4. High NLP's cause liquidity shortage in chink banks
5. Liquidity shortage leads to inability to issue new loans, thus ending chink stimulus packages.
6. Lack of stimulus packages leads to 40% unemployment in short time
7. Tiananmen Square x 100
8. Chinks devolve back into natural insect state: lots of little sub-regions with no ties or affinity for each other.
>chinas the enemy
You sure?
China's homogeneous though.
yes, and the best way to transpire a civil war is to starve them. china literally can't feed itself and relies on energy shipped from sea. so why not a naval blockade?
Delusion
more people in the US hate china than israel
Are you advocating for a genocide? Over trade?
>quora.com
>t.Pajeet
it would start ww3
>you depose the CCP from power and divide up the land/spoils among allies like India, Japan, SK
Okay but what do WE gain other than setting up a future conflict with a much stronger India, Japan, SK?
Chinese Central Bank official reports NLPs to be at 0%. You believe that?
>Why doesn't the US declare war on China?
Because they still remember what happened last time they tried to take on an Asian country.
It wasn't the US though
why would china instigate a nuclear war? they have a no 1st nuke policy
show your flag real quick
BECAUSE INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES DON'T EXACTLY STOP BECAUSE A FUCKING BOAT SHOWS UP!!!
India, Japan, SK are all ALLIES
The true enemy is the Jews. The Jews antagonize China and Russia over the media. They are the true enemy. They are advocating for white genocide and they control the US
He’s not an American. He’s probably an Israeli or Canadian desu
No need
India has no problem with China especially if China is wooing India while Trump is making fun of Modi and making life hard for the Indians on H1b visas. What has Trump done for India? And India is not Germany that depends on the US protection.
Are you Indian? Answer truthfully.
Are you actually 12 years old? Is that why this thread is so retarded?
china can't win a conventional war, period. and they have a no first nuke policy. they're the enemy, WHY NOT starve them?
I saw that thread
You still didn’t explain how that directly benefits US to do this or why I should die so India has more land.
Because we are both nuclearized, faggot.
Because that makes us the bad guys in the face of the world.
no
No gain in starving them. You get cucked by a chink or something?
You forgot your meme flag
what's the point of trading with the enemy?
>India
>american allies no matter what
>Are you willing?
See OP. {{{He}}} is willing to sacrifice you.
>NO WE ARENT ALLIES LEAVE INDIA OUT OF THIS FUCK U
Haha gets the Pajeets in their shill threads every time.
You don't want to make war with countries with higher IQ
To be fair, France also lost against the Vietnamese.
>the enemy
>no first nuke policy
So their nukes require fallout to activate? Like they will starve to death to comply with the policy? Fuck outta here you retard.
Why are they the enemy?
Chinks are already at war with us. They tried to kill me when I studied international trade at Waseda University in Tokyo Japan from 2015-2016.
The issue is just that with these kinds of things, you want to apply pressure and make the other party look like the aggressor.
You forgot your meme flag you retard
>No
He didnt ask about your residence Pajeet
US won against Japan. The forte of the american military is conventional warfare
France pulled out of vietnam also. We killed a million of them for almost nothing and withdrew because of politics.
Fucking disgusting german scum, go suck a refugee dick
>Be America
>in war since creation
>destroy all enemies
Now who do we fight
>cannibalism.jpg
We pay them bullshit for good stuff then don't pay anything and abuse them because they hyper inflate themselves and then they can't do anything about it. That's why China has a massive fucking army but a great portion of it's "armed forces" don't have anything to shoot with.