I see thread after thread of people implying capitalism means some people are really rich and some people are really poor and socialism is different.
Capitalism = private ownership of the means of production (you have the right to start/own a business) Socialism = state ownership of the means of production (you don't have the right to own/start a business and everything is owned/ran by the state)
Both have "wage labor" Both have the option to get paid by production Learn the meaning of the words you're arguing about.
Yeah, see the parentheses are only part of it. You fucked up by adding in your own interpretation of "means of production" and the thread is gonna be a shitshow. Should've gone with "capital goods" instead of "own a business.
Ayden King
That’s the point. If you live in socialism and see that there’s not enough stores (aka make more money) and you want to open it you can’t. And >implying government gives a fuck about your opinions.
Liam Cooper
I think the way I explained it is perfect and straight to the point.
Brandon Jones
Capitalism is a meme invented by a communist. There is no such thing. There are only the principles of private property and voluntary trade. Any other nonsense heaped on top is pure propaganda.
Dylan Gomez
>capitalism means some people are really rich and some people are really poor capitalism always leads to rich getting richer at the expense of the poor. This will literally never change in free market. Nestle or Pepsico won't suddenly start shrinking. The jews will only get more shekels
I'm not saying capitalism is bad or that socialism / communism would be good. But capitalism is pretty fucking far from flawless like some people here imply
Isaiah Morgan
Social Studies is no longer required in Public Schools.
Dylan Bailey
This is crony capitalism. If you understand the essence of property you would realize that having 80,000 regulations isn't private ownership.
Julian Cox
this
Jose Cruz
All socialist countries have been capitalist. Take the Empire of Russia. It owned, by law, all the gold in the ground, discovered or undiscovered. The EoR owned all the gold mines, and the means of transporting the gold ore to the smelters that were owned by the EoR. From there the gold went to Imperial mint where it was turned into money and sent to the Imperial bank of Russia, where it was used to finance investments by the Government. All of this activity was meant to make a profit for the Government so it could buy more Faberge eggs. Imperialism, Capitalism, and Socialism are the same thing.
Oliver Walker
>muh REAL capitalism that's as likely to happen as real communism which is to say, it never will
remember in 2009 when obama was floating the idea of a public health insurance option? remember how every conservative dumbfuck in the country lost his head and called it LITERALLY SOCIALISM AND COMMUNISM AND MARXISM? well kids who were beginning to form their political beliefs at that time are now 20-somethings advocating socialism and communism and marxism on the internet
Capitalism: >some people are rich, some people are poor Socialism: >everyone is poor
Parker Rogers
Like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Probably the most socialist country in the world today.
Adrian Ross
All systems have their flaws. Capitalism has proven itself to be the best for our intelligence level in our situation.
1) People will tend to become corrupt in time. 2) People will be lazy if they don't have adequate motivation. 3) People operate at all different levels. 4) People have a large variety of wants and needs that perpetually change.
Capitalism: 1) If a business becomes corrupt it will most likely be replaced by one that isn't. 2) If you are lazy you get fired and don't have a job. 3) If you are intelligent you can excel, if you are not you can settle to just float along. 4) The second a new want or need is created or it is determined that existing ones aren't being fulfilled, business will be created to supply it.
Socialism: 1) If a business becomes corrupt it will likely stay that way, 2) If you are lazy that's ok, you will still eat and have a home, regardless of your contribution. 3) Your abilities come second to your connections in a very real way. 4) Large, gaping holes in supply and demand go unfilled.
You'll find three interpretations of the word "Socialism":
1) Scientific Socialism: This is the socialism espoused by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels based on a critique of political economy and an analytical outlook on history. It can be defined by the following Karl Marx quote:
>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established , an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things.
This Socialism IS in fact the one that will lead to Communism, therefore Marx uses the terms in his work interchangeably. The "early stage of the revolution" AKA Socialism consists of each contributing according to his ability and taking according to his CONTRIBUTION (actual labor power expended), or as Marx put it:
>He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. - Critique of the Gotha Programme, page 10
2) Utopian Socialism: This is the socialism espoused by Marxists deviate from Marx's work and Non-Marxists that are idealist in nature. This socialism can be defined as:
>"WORKERS SHOULD OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND OPERATE THE FACTORIES"
These include all the Leninists (AKA second world of the 20th century Soviet Union, Maoist china etc etc), Anarchists (except AnCaps and Agorists, obviously), DemSocs and other partisans and political opportunists. Bear in mind, all of these socialists have rooted their ideology in works of Political THEORY, not from any actual economic analysis unlik Scientific Socialism.
Adrian Peterson
3) """Socialism""" or Faux-ialism as I like to call it: basically when a retard Democrat wants to tell you
>muh road building is socialism. Universal healthcare is socialism. We should follow the socialism of the Nordic countries.
these people are retards and Social Democrats, not Socialists. Pay no attention to them in the conversation of Socialism.
If any of you retards want to learn about Fascism, then read the picrelated.
I also want to add that retards like Ocasio-Cortez would not get the approval of people like Marx. If Marx were alive today, he would have nothing but disdain for someone like Ocasio-Cortez, and this is derived from the basis of his work that gives to the theory of Impossibilism: The idea that the current mode of production cannot be salvaged, and that reformism within the liberal democractic system would only slumber the working class away from revolution. As Marx himself puts it:
>However, the democratic petty bourgeois want better wages and security for the workers, and hope to achieve this by an extension of state employment and by welfare measures; in short, they hope to bribe the workers with a more or less disguised form of alms and to break their revolutionary strength by temporarily rendering their situation tolerable. - Address of the Central Committee of the Communist League.
