The Roman Empire was the peak of human society. Its all been downhill from there. The SPQR was the greatest empire ever

needs large version with trump face on that guy

It virtually stopped technological development for a thousand years. Greeks in Alexandria invented a god damn steam engine but said 'why bother when we have slaves?'

True. I'm not saying Rome wasn't an amazing civilisation, but looking back to it as a working model is just silly.

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Bullshit argument, you cant just define slavery as manual fucking labour and blame it on lack of progress. Lack of slaves would have meant greeks in alexandria would never have had the free time to invent said engine to begin with.

Let me put it this way: Brazil was ours once. Income inequality persists to this day and just take a look at their estate along with the available natural resources. A fucking disaster!

Sad part is your not wrong. The same things that killed the Romans are yet again killing western society now.

slavery is immoral, it's the opposite end of the spectrum to having minimum wages.

we should have neither. people want choose to work for $0 should be allowed.

Slavery has many different incarnations and absolutely certainly is vastly different based on time period.

People do work for 0. Its called an internship lol.

what about debt slavery?

>the opposite end to having minimu wage

???

Slavery is nothing but a way of putting those that would otherwise have been killed to manual labor for their own and society’s benefit.

Nudity was legal. Today I was walking around my house nude because it was so hot. I wish it was okay in our culture.

I mean there was a lot wrong with roman society. Civilizations rise and fall. As far as Rome is concerned, sure it was better than the Middle Ages. But you can't say they're better then we are now. Women had no rights, homosexuals really had no rights, bottoms certainly didn't. Rome might be fun to romanticize but it ends there. Im with you thinking its an awesome portion of human history. But I happen to think, where we are right now is 100 times better than imperial Rome.

I really dont believe chattel slavery changed much during the years. The basic rule is "work or get the whip".

>nudity was legal
It was just fucking hot, have you ever been to Rome outside the cold months?

It's almost certain that the Roman Empire was the last of the great societies, and already a serious decline from Egypt and Greece who were themselves based on much more ancient ice age civilizations.

In Rome slavery was a case of telling captured conquered soldiers or people “work or be killed”. Around those times you didnt and couldnt let enemies go free.

Moreover slavery was nothing more than appointing your employer. A regular worker in Rome would get nearly nothing more than a slave. Only certain jobs like patrician guards would get an actual salary. Most of the commoners lived in roughly the same conditions slaves did - most slaves with good employers lived better. The only tiny bit of difference was if a slave was to work at a candlemaker, he would have to work there. While a regular roman could swap to farming or some such.

The Republic was better. After Marius and Sulla, things started going downhill.

So, basically, Rome was great before about 100 BCE.

>sure it was better than the Middle Ages
this is objectively not true.

>from 1000 to 1300 the population of Europe grew by ~50%, faster than anytime before
>slavery was replaced with serfdom in most places
>less famine than anytime before in Europe
>nutrition became better for the lower classes
>the church introduced the first welfare programs in European history
>the guild systems gave a kind of economic security to craftsmen unseen before in human history
>the introduction of universities and education facilities in monasteries created a new educated elite

The Middle Ages as a step back for Europe is an anti-Christian myth perpetuated during and after the Enlightenment and gets discredited by most of not all historians today.

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this

Only a fucking barbarian could think serfdom was a fucking step forward from slavery.

And fucking welfare?

Plus no fucking shit, most of the stuff you spoke of is due to natural improvement of technology and birthrate.

>Rome, not your homeland pajeet.
kek

even then, degeneracy was rampant and people whined because the mos maiorum were better.

the only reason we see the roman empire praised to hell and back was due to its extension and descendant nations, not to its quality.
>inb4 its extension was a result of its quality.
there might have been smaller realities with overall better ways of living, I'd argue in favour of considering such things a peak, rather than rome.

serfs had rights and were not just property.

The could own property. They could earn extra money. They could marry and start a family. You couldn't sexually exploit your serf (only in theory obviously).

How is that not objectively better than slavery in antiquity?

>And fucking welfare?
Monasteries took the disabled and orphans, before they only died in some ditch. The church encouraged charity, introduced charity networks and you could go to the monastery for medical help.

>most of the stuff you spoke of is due to natural improvement of technology and birthrate.
birth rates only improve if living conditions improve and that technology got better proves my point, you idiot.
Live got better not worse, that was my entire point.

it's impossible to know another persons full potential.

nothing wrong with that! it's only slavery in name

no problem here :D

>even then

Which fucking then? Republic? No? Which part? Fuck off with these retarded generalizing starements about a huge subject

No it wasn't. It was a great empire, but it was degenerate as fuck, and had a directly parasitic relationship with the rest of Europe.

Serfs are an affront to humanity. Unlike slavery, it heavily extends to your own populace and transforms it into obedient drones with no freedom of thought. Feudalism and serfdom is a major reason you krauts are utterly incapable to produce independnet thought, because obeying an employer or person above is so deeply embedded in your culture. Slavery doesnt allow freedom of expression to conquered people, yeh, but Rome had a lot more society than civilizations with serfdom.

>birth rates only improve if living conditions improve
Birth rates improve if food supply improves. Also your statement is utterly and completely incorrect - prosperity leads to low birthrates, poverty leads to high birthrates. Does fuckig Germany have high birthrates or does nigger Africa and dusty shithole in the middle east have high birthrates?

It's all speculation either way.

Ok, you are mentally handicapped. Got it.

Rome was evil, they attacked the Germanic barbarians who dindu nuffin.

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cringe

asterix was based though

>offer counter-argument
>lol retard
Solid

Not really, because the basis remains chattel slavery offered instead of culling of the conquered is a whole different thing from it being the goal at the very beginning

greece beats it in the intellectual/invention/innovation/philosophy/prosperous government areas

not bad
make it much simpler
3/4 less lines and shapes and then you are platinum

>you can just define

you can try anyway
just as libs think all definitions of ALL of language are fluid

it either is slavery or its not

What is slavery?

You got fuuuucked hard, Hans.
Its fucking anonymous, you can just admit defeat and no-one would be the wiser.

>germans
>admitting they are wrong
Hahahahahaha nice one

a paraphrase:
it its forced incarcerated physical servitude, no freedom to leave/refuse due to duress of threat of physical force/punishment

plenty of free online dictionaries

true.

it also crucified Christ
the jews demanded and orchestrated it
the romans physically carried it out, according to their own law requiring they perform executions

And this is universally bad in some way?

Provincial government did it. California endorses black people crime, does it mean the whole USA during its entire history is at fault for this?

>And this is universally bad in some way?

yes

>Provincial government did it. California endorses black people crime, does it mean the whole USA during its entire history is at fault for this?

it was universal roman law, for all province where any local set of laws was also honored, all executions must be carried out by agents of the roman empire

>yes
So in conditions of war you think its better to murder someone than to subject him to slavery, when presented with those two and those two options alone?

>it was universal roman law, for all province where any local set of laws was also honored, all executions must be carried out by agents of the roman empire
Bearing arms is an american constitutional right, is the shooting of white men by black men with legally owned guns the fault of your entire nation throughout its entire history?

>So in conditions of war you think its better to murder someone than to subject him to slavery,

strawman
red herring

just because it is in the midst of war does not mean it suddenly becomes pleasurable or desirable

>its not as bad death

red herring
not-as-bad-as fallacy
etc

Slaves are direct competitors to the rise of a proto-middle class/little bourgeoise that propel the production and technological progress of a nation.
Descartes, Newton, Pascal, Planck, etc... they were all from the little bourgeoisie, basically former peasants who benefitted from social mobility enabled by production labor through centuries.
In Rome the slaves enriched the patricians but they were the ruin of the average roman in Italy who had to face a disloyal concurrence and ultimately sell their land to go live in cities where the aristocrats basically gave them a kind of proto-welfare to avoid constant revolts.

fuck off christcuck brainlet.

nah
our Creator commanded the spread of the Gospel to the entire world, to every creature

your word falls somewhat short

>strawman
>red herring
Spaghetti
Notebook
Wrapper

See, I can say words that have nothing to do with our argument.

>just because it is in the midst of war does not mean it suddenly becomes pleasurable or desirable
Faced with the optionof death as one defeated in a war I would say slavery becomes rather desirable. I am glad my ancestors got enslaved, do you think they should have been killed and that would have been more desirable instead?

>red herring
>not-as-bad-as fallacy
>etc
I ran out of things on my desk let me look out the window

Car
Air conditioner
Chair

Its hardly a “not as bad” situation when we are clearly speaking about war, where the conqueror MUST impose consitions upon the conquered. Cull or enslavement are your options when the local populace refuses to voluntarily accept your rule. You have offered no argument as to why its not a slavery or death situation.

The only orators who have ever mattered were Demosthenes, Cato, Cicero, and Hitler.

The Roman Republic had 2/4 of the greatest orators ever to walk the earth.

Now THAT is an argument

I will claim that during certain periods of time the empire counteracted this extremely well by focusing on land ownership and it was badly handled in most cases, rather than an issue in itself.

nah nazi germany was the greatest. they went form burning paper money for warmth to building rockets and nuclear power in less than 10 years

Slavery really makes life easier

germans only admit sandniggers

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They didn't have AC and refrigerators

>Spaghetti
>Notebook
>Wrapper

irrelevant.
relevant:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

>See, I can say words that have nothing to do with our argument.

see: meanings of said terms
themoreyouknow.bmp

>Faced with the optionof death as one defeated in a war I would say slavery becomes rather desirable.

Fallacy of relative privation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

irrelevant:
Car
Air conditioner
Chair

relevant:
red herring*2
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule

>Its hardly a “not as bad” situation when we are clearly speaking about war,

then death would be the preferable
which we have both properly stated, is not

>where the conqueror MUST impose consitions upon the conquered.

again, that is becomes preferrable to something worse is immaterial, same fallacy

>Cull or enslavement are your options when the local populace refuses to voluntarily accept your rule.

yes, again, it is "not as bad as" these "relatively worse things"
does not and cannot magically make it preferable in absolute terms

>You have offered no argument as to why its not a slavery or death situation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

you have meticulously concocted strawman hypothetical wherein those are the only 2

the "baseline" of reality:
its not a slavery or death situation, rather a slavery or freedom situation

there, now its not, easy as pie

for slavery to not be "bad" it would have to be preferable to the "standard" (non-forced) state of humans: freedom

good luck

Fuck up Saxon.
Celts should have destroyed your shitty empire before it started.

Alright, my argument corresponds to terminology.

I still maintain slavery was a better alternative to killing captured enemy soldiers.

>for slavery to not be "bad" it would have to be preferable to the "standard" (non-forced) state of humans: freedom
Also this doesnt correspond with reality.

I have no interest in a philosophical argument.

now before you actually try to put forth slavery as perferable to freedom

stop and think about that
such a paradoxical proposition requires a purely ego-contrarian

really:
"slavery is not bad/is preferable"
seriously

This is not a philosophical argument. Please stop attempting to draw me into one, I have no interest whatsoever.

>Also this doesnt correspond with reality.

the doesnt correspond with non-baseline non-standard/universally typical state of h. sapiens

there are exceptions to every non-objective rule
thats why they are called exceptions

nothing philosophical about it
once force is initiated, the state of things is there and forward: artificial

The economic distortion created by slavery is what ultimately destroyed the Roman Empire.

it is RELATIVELY preferable under those (strawman) circumstances

it is not "preferable" ("PERIOD"; in the absolute, universal context)

>It virtually stopped technological development for a thousand years. Greeks in Alexandria invented a god damn steam engine but said 'why bother when we have slaves?'
The same thing is happening now. The technology exists to have robots picking fruits and vegetables, but farmers are like "why bother when we have spics?"

>This is not a philosophical argument.

*shrug*
i am the messenger

>Please stop attempting to draw me into one, I have no interest whatsoever.

then dont dive into one to start with
you knew morality/"acceptability" of human behavior (and thus necessarily significantly overlapped with philosophy) was the central tenet of it when we started

Im going to stop responding to you now.

>The same thing is happening now. The technology exists to have robots picking fruits and vegetables, but farmers are like "why bother when we have spics?"

oh please
and soon as it is viable and cheaper those spics are OUT

>then dont dive into one to start with
you knew morality/"acceptability" of human behavior (and thus necessarily significantly overlapped with philosophy) was the central tenet of it when we started
It wasnt

Now please go, I have no argument to offer

no internet, shit empire

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I maintain that corruption and oligarchy was at the basis and slaves were a tool. And another tool would easily have been found out by the amount of concentrated power the oligarchy had.

we could continue
but thanks for the forfeit-copout
as unoriginal as it might be

>enters a debate that necessitates delving into philosophical areas
>will not talk philosophy

ok.

Or how about you get rid of the spics first?

:(

i was still waiting to hear how people default to preferring being enslaved rather than no enslaved

one seldom encounters such radical revelations
all you did was tease me with this secret knowledge and now withhold it

quite rude

sounds like a plan
oh wait, the fruit wont pick itself yet
darn

*not

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There was no philosophical argument offered, you autistically carried one out entirely by yourself.

I only ever spoke about whether roman slavery was a better alternative to progress than murder of captives or endless incarcerstion (amounting to the same thing) which were the two options of war during that time period.

Since I feel quite sorry for you and dont wish to point out the obvious, we can talk about that if you want.

i see:
mock and belittle your only hope for escaping the wages of sin

truly a grand plan

>i was still waiting to hear how people default to preferring being enslaved rather than no enslaved
Im sorry buddy, I honestly have nothing to offer in that regard, not even if I try to fake it.

What part of "the technology already exists" do you not understand? Did you have another fat embolism in between posts?

>There was no philosophical argument offered

it delved lightly into it, not fully

> you autistically carried one out entirely by yourself.

personal attacks
also you were there, replying

>I only ever spoke about whether roman slavery was a better alternative to progress than murder of captives or endless incarcerstion

well, no
>And this is universally bad in some way?

"universally bad"
not
"relatively bad (to *worse thing*)

>Since I feel quite sorry for you and dont wish to point out the obvious,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgmental_language
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_pity
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pooh-pooh

etc
apply yourself

again:
>And this is universally bad in some way?

*shrug*

>What part of "the technology already exists" do you not understand?

it doesnt
it is being developed
it is not viable yet, the software cannot yet handle the tasks

to be viable/mature/done, no matter the cost, it would have to be able to, ever under the best circumstances, match the average human fruit/veggie picker

the tech is not quite there yet

and calm down