OH NO NO NO NO

$500 a month to 1,000 families? The fuck is that going to prove?
They'll either choose 1,000 responsible families to show it works or 1,000 families that buy TVs.
UBI is fucked up because it will change the markets for people that earn money.
If its guaranteed money that stacks every month, what's to stop someone from just saving every penny while they are in school or at home to the point after a few years they can purchase a house with cash? Housing will skyrocket because of supply and demand. Same with everything, tuitions, food, phones, shoes, clothes.
The whole reason there are price points for products, market determined.
>people can afford this at this point
Make everyone able to afford it? Everything goes up. Those $2,000 rents everyone hates would easily double.
UBI would be fine but access to everything has to be limited and the money can't stack.
Even if it doesn't stack, people would be able to buy whatever for their limit and sell it on the resale market to get the cash. We have the same thing with food stamps now. People with cash would just be ATMs to people with UBI.
Give me $500 a month with no strings attached and watch how much gold I buy. How much property I'll buy.
It's a very bad idea without the regulation necessary to keep it in check.

THIS
I don't think they understand what "UNIVERSAL" means.

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>savings
This is already a faulty idea. Money is not and has never been a real thing, it is something we made up to help facilitate trade. If you have lots of money but no actual wealth you basically have nothing, it could just be gone the next day.

People who argue against UBI always come at it from the direction of how the problems in the current system would be magnified under this. They are approaching it from the point of view that the current system is some kind of absolute foundation.

Here is the reality. People need things, like food. Either we, as a species, have the resources (space, raw materials, labor) to produce this much food, or we do not. It does not matter what kind of economic system you are using. One system will not change these facts, we can either capable of providing for everyone, or we cant. Arguing over the middleman, the economy, is just stupidity.
If we have the resources to do it, but something about the economy is preventing it, then there is something wrong with the economy. If we do not have the resources to do it, then arguing over economics is stupid.

The entire point of UBI is to retain the idea of money. WIth out it we would have to transition away from the concept of money entierly, to i dont even know what, computers just allocating things to people i guess. It is not surprising that UBI was first made up by capitalists as a way to deal with the inevitability of post labor. If you want the fluidity money provides then you will need to ensure everyone uses it. Because a lack of labor can change to a shortage of labor instantly, the second someone decides to start a war and infinite job openings for 'soldier' appear.

If this happens, then the only real metric of currency is how much violence your group can produce, and the poor will always outnumber the rich, since these ideas, poor and rich, only exist within the gradient provided by wealth inequality to start with. For anyone to be rich, more people must be poor.

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>To be fair this is going to be a big problem in the future as computers start being able to do human tasks.

Hey retard, I'll break this down for you:

>Everyone gets given enough to live
>People start having more kids
>Continues for a few more generations (we'll be kind and assume that the machines scale well enough).
>Earth reaches capacity
>Back to square one

There's no such thing as infinite supply yet.

I guess they can't crush the working man fast enough so it's time to give out some more shit to worthless human beings. We all need to stop working and paying taxes and watch as the piggy Bank dries up.

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How is he a retard for stating facts? Your point is valid, but it isn't related to what he said, just another issue. An issue that no one will actually bring up if they value their career because then next step is some sort of solution.

Yes! Now they all can buy guns!

> plebitors in charge of economy
when economy goes down the drain and they have to raise taxes, inflation will go up and the inequality will become worse
lets see it happen in real time now

>entire state of Illinois has to raise property taxes to absurd levels, high enough to make property impossible to sell due to the tax enslavement that comes with owning land, in order to pay civil servants in Chicago
>Chicago, seeing the state struggling to keep up with their frivolous spending, decides to triple down on their debt generation in one of the biggest "hold my beer" moves of the century, making a balanced budget literally impossible
Well done.

Didn't some other country try this and regretted ever considering the option?

He's suggesting that UBI is needed, when all it does is delay a problem.

Kek, if you still live there, you deserve the policies

Good I hope nigcongo has to file bankruptcy and the city implodes.

Yeah, just fucking blow it, there's more coming anyway. Capitalists want people to have more money to spend on their products. Its taxpayer funded of course corporations don't pay taxes. Etc, you're smart enough to boil down all the problems with giving people free money or the motivations behind doing it.
There's not enough control in place, the economy we have isn't set up for everyone to suddenly have extra money. Government trust funds shouldn't be used for mobility. Either everyone gets the same, Communism, or everyone gets nothing and you have to make yourself, Capitalism.
Its really fucked up. Some sort of hybrid and we have Obamacare.
Even if we tiered access, doctors get mansions, ditch diggers get apartments, with a free education system, everyone would just go to medical school. Are you going to fail people? Are you going to implement some sort of pretest?
We don't have these things. We can't start discriminating now, everything is racist. Too many people are well invested to forfeit their property to the state.
This isn't Star Trek. Everyone hates everyone.

The alderman in that article is arguing socialist talking points. This is not an attempt to get in front of automation, it is an attempt to establish socialism. I will be glad when the shitty decisions these states make relegates them to be fenced in third world enclaves that eventually get glassed.

I live near Chicago. Let them take all thr niggers in, it will increase my wages.

>let in masses of low iq immigrants
>nothing for them to do
>mass riots

Name one economist who supports this

hard mode: no krugman or piketty

NO
NONONONONO
THIS CANT BE HAPPENING
POL TOLD ME I HAD TO GET A JOB
WHAT
NONONONODOD GOD NO

>How to kill an entire state when one city

>Here is the reality. People need things, like food. Either we, as a species, have the resources (space, raw materials, labor) to produce this much food, or we do not. It does not matter what kind of economic system you are using. One system will not change these facts, we can either capable of providing for everyone, or we cant. Arguing over the middleman, the economy, is just stupidity.
>If we have the resources to do it, but something about the economy is preventing it, then there is something wrong with the economy. If we do not have the resources to do it, then arguing over economics is stupid.

Why would we support every person that wants it?

We do have limited resources, and the biggest one is TIME.

Wasting our time supporting people that contribute nothing to society leads to a weak country that will soon be conquered and destroyed by a stronger country.

>all it does is delay a problem.
Well, yeah, and that in itself is a positive result that gives time to work on the real issue. There are only so many years they can put a mask on unemployment (like counting 0-hour contract workers as being employed full time here in the UK) before people actually start becoming homeless (or at least entire families living in one property) and starving en mass. This would slow and stop that. Whether it would need to be repealed and swapped out for another solution later depends. If there isn't in fact a massive population boom then in theory automation can practically make farming and food production and resource farming both more efficent and widespread. It doesn't matter if you chase the white farmers out of your country if the UN has provided a few thousand auto-farms and a few techs/overseers.

UBI is basically required in the (distant, hopefully, and beyond my working lifetime) long term to avoid either leaders/guberments trying to genocide their own people, people slaughtering the leaders of their own societies in riots the like have never been seen and the automation literally torn down, or literal homeless shanty cities coming to exist within existing cities where the law doesn't dare go and roving bands of raiders occasionally venture out of to steal food trucks.

The civilised world will become an actual hellhole unless the common working man, who makes up 95% of the population, has a place to rest his head in peace and food for his family, and automation taking 90% of that 95%s jobs eventually in increasing numbers threatens that. It's 'ruling 101' that you keep you people just satisfied enough that its too much work to rise up and drag you to the guillotine.

Also, I would suggest seperating it from money entirely. When the majority of a population no longer needs to, or even can, work and the resources are plentiful it loses its point. It will be credits/rations. An alloted amount of food for your family. Accomidation and energy credits. That sort of thing. We're only calling it UBI because we associate it with $/h.

People have said this before every major period of technological advancement

ahahahahahahahahhahahaha

accelerationists cheering

>To be fair this is going to be a big problem in the future as computers start being able to do human tasks.
This is why I'm trying to learn programming/IT stuff now as I also work a job that involves managing manual labor workers in a warehouse/chemical plant (some things just can't be automated too quickly yet due to costs/convenience).
Everyone I know who is an accountant works 60 to 80 hours a week despite they only use basic-ass Excel. I damn well know that their employers are looking at ways to cut down on costs. I wanna be the guy who ends up running/keeping the databases up to date when the employers start cutting the humans out for software/hardware upgrades.

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Ah great we were to happy being one of the top 10 cities by GPD now we need to signal to the hordes of drugged out faggots that don't want to work that we are giving out even more free handouts. Just fucking peachy.

>it's a shame we stopped serious space exploration after the moon landing
This and not exploring the Oceans ROYALLY pissed me off.

Oh fuck off Corbyn. Unemployment is at a low level and zero hours contract suit a lot of people. Once they shift to Universal Credit it allows more flexibility for those that can't work regular hours. The homeless are mostly junkies or alcoholics.
Before Christmas in Birmingham as is required by law due to falling temperatures they did a complete sweep and found not one genuine homeless person.

This time we have technology that could replace almost every job in next 50-100 years. Including jobs like surgeon, programmer, graphic designer, lawyer, etc. It could replace literally everyone except bussiness owners, politicians, scientists and people who develop and maintain AI

Oddly enough I'm not left wing. I've done volunteer work and I've known people struggle to make rent due to not being able to get enough hours. But yeah, I'll just shut up and ignore the fact that the Sainsbury's up the road just 'lost' around a third of its staff because only two of the twelve tills are ever open, everyone piling into the self service area. I'm sure those folks just stepped right into another job the next day.

They had a similar experiment in Finland.
After the trial period, they got rid of it, because it didn't do anything close to what they set out to do with it, and because it was too expensive.

nah you're still right

So, who's paying for it, and who's distributing it?

Its a move by the corrupt politicians wanting more money in the hands of drug addicts to funnel into the pockets of criminal organisations while absolutely enslaving the peoples votes with extreme government (democrat) dependency.

Wait, the idiocy of what you just said took a while to sink in.
>Before Christmas in Birmingham as is required by law due to falling temperatures they did a complete sweep and found not one genuine homeless person.
>found not one genuine homeless person.
>Birmingham is the second largest city in the United Kingdom
>Over a million people
>not one genuine homeless person.
Fucks sake. Either they weren't trying very hard or we now officially live under the United Federation of Planets and I missed the memo. If you genuinely believe that pigshit then I think you are genuine proof that people will believe anything if it lets them feel less uncomfortable with reality.

No. Denmark or some shit tried it but the receipients didnt even want or it or use it because they were already loaded with cash

until it's cheaper to produce a robot to go do dangerous tasks vs. training and throwing a human at the same task, companies will continue to use humans.

They have so many niggers that's probably a good thing.

Time to buy shares in KFC!

With what money? Illinois is bankrupt, they even double dipped into state lottery earnings and winners were being forced into payment plans.

KFC, Black n milds, and malt liquor

It's shit like this that makes me glad I am moving out of this fucking city and state.

t. Chicagofag for 30+ years

>I don’t understand economics

Until machines can design, build, maintain, and produce themselves in a self perpetuating manner with no human input we will not have a reduction in “jobs”

And when we do get to a point where virtually all work is done by self sustaining robots it won’t matter becuase our modern economic system will be irrelevant and we will essentially be post-scarcity

I live just on the boundary of Chicago for all my life and lived in city for three years. Chicago is one of the worst cities in the world. It doesn't understand finances at all. It attempts to tax literally everything and it disproportionately affects the poor. Dumb shit like the sugar tax barely last because people get pissed off but they never vote out the idiots who institute it. Business and residential are fleeing to Indiana and Wisconsin at a rapid pace and I'm sure as shit leaving before next year. This dumbass decision will only make everything more expensive, once again disproportionately affecting the poor.

>start

I could replace 40% of people right now with a bash script. Probably more then half of people rocking cubicles. The robots will take time since you have to develop physical hardware.

Who makes , programs, and repairs the robots?

>Testing in Stockton
>Testing in Chicago
"Testing" welfare without restrictions on spending. Can't imagine what these poor, drug addicted, criminally lazy fucks will spend it on but you can be damn sure they won't "test" this on an middle or upper middle class neighborhood.

Such as? 99% of everything sold in stores is created through automation. Admit that you're just trying to weasel your way into getting gibs

People who get more money than the people who don't until robots eventually can make the robots

Cool. All the homeless will move there. Chicago will collapse into lawless disorder. Illinois no longer solvent. Feds move into the failed State.

>created through automation.
This is what dumbfuck leftist morons tell themselves while basking in the goods produced by Chinese slavery.

If this shit goes through I will be doing the same. It's a beautiful city with a lot to offer, but Democrats are ruining it.
If you take a look at the Twitter of the guy pushing this UBI, he constantly retweets posts about white people being privileged and white men having it all.
The fact people like this can exist and be applauded makes me just want to go innawoods and give up on society.

PUT EM IN A FUCKIN COFFIN BITCH

The more complicated or dangerous the task, the longer it will stay a viable job. Thus everyone pushing others towards the trades if they realize this. Supermarket checkouts are an obvious starting point since all it requires is to scan an object and take the correct money; it's basically a slightly more complex cashpoint. We've got 3D printers that replace some building tasks, but it will take a long time before buildings/houses can be built by two people (tech and controller) in a day or two. Stuff like plumbing, anything that requires a critical eye/problem solving and is basically touch up work/requires any inginuity, is theoretically impossible to automate.

But lets not pretend that most jobs are that complex. Cashiers do simple math and press a few buttons. Shelf stackers and warehouse workers use inefficent human muscle and not to mention already use machines designed for the tasks that are too much. Smart cars are well on the way and satnavs can already plan a route from the warehouse to the superstore. Tractors and farming equipment is already pretty fucking advanced and amazing at this point. Factories might as well already be automated, and indeed some are. Not only will all of these eventually be replaced by robotics and purpose-built machines; ignoring human concern and looking at it purely from the angle of profit, this route is more desirable. 24/7 stores errywhere. Trucks that don't need their 'driver' to rest. 'Muscles' that don't tire.

It's coming and its fucking scary. As I said earlier, I just hope it doesn't arrive in my working lifetime, as there is obviously still a lot of groundwork to lay out, but then, look at how much tech and such has advanced in just twenty years.

Too cold for homeless. We have nice weather 3 (maybe 4) months per year. Winters can be brutal.

Chinese sweatshops could perhaps be seen as primitive automation, if you squint, no?

No you're still right. Unless you're from Illinois most people don't quite understand how broke the state is. UBI in the state of IL, even in the city of Chicago, would break our state even more. We have the most corruption, and the most debt, rivaled only by California.

Chicago has no money, Illinois has no money. In order for them to pay this, they'd have to try to get federal funding. Our roads are already shit. Our economy is shit.

I rather see Chicago kicked out of the state, or at least everything north of 80.

DO IT, lol

>The more complicated or dangerous the task, the longer it will stay a viable job.
Also wrong. Why is this thread full of morons?

They did but because of the "Jesus Chain" incident, we never speak of that again, soo many dead fetuses.

Too cold? UBI man! They can afford homes :^)

What the fuck do you think the industrial revolution was about? In most cases lack of automation in certain industries is not because of a lack of technology, but because of a lack of demand. People flip burgers not because we don't have machines that can make the perfect burger for a fraction of the cost, but because people want burgers created by humans, which is the purpose of going to a restaurant vs buying frozen burgers created by a machine. You stupid basement dwellers see everything from a theoretical standpoint and not an objective, practical standpoint.

Senpai, there are so many great cities out there without the meme-tier corruption, crime, and high cost of living. You can still come back to visit and get Portillo's. Flights are cheap.

500/month barely can get you a house in the projects. I pay 2100/month to live in a "nice" part of Chicago and I still see way more niggers than I'd like.

I like how you backed up the insult with a carefully worded and though out argument. I am especially impressed with how your response covered and rebutted everything in a single sentence. I restract my argument and will sit down.

Understood. Just need to figure out where...

Then that's not UBI if it does't meet basic needs and automation still kills us.

Check the "fastest growing cities" lists (or similar). Look at where businesses are setting up shop and relocating to. Nashville, Dallas, Raleigh-Durham, to name a few.

Which is why it's a money sink and probably 995/1000 of those families will probably be black.
Just Democrats making sure their pets don't step out of line. All about the gibs.

What kind of drugs can you buy for $17 a day?

Still, for 25 dollars a head we could send our homeless problems away advertising free money.

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the poor already have basic income through TANF and SNAP also they have free healthcare through Medicaid

They'll still just go to Cali.

It's funny how the people calling for gibs because of future automation can't name a single industry in which we don't have the technology to completely automate if it was socially acceptable. Keywords being "socially acceptable". That is the barrier in most cases, not technology. We've had the technology for a century to automate most jobs if the market demanded it. You guys never factor in the human element, which is communist kind of bullshit. Human behavior can't be reduced to an algorithm. A lot of our behavior is governed by unpredictable factors like social norms and trends. You can't just negate that and say "it's costs less to maintain a machine than to hire a person, thus machine". It's already been that way for a long time in most industries. Decades ago it would have been cheaper to replace mcdonalds employees with machines, but that's not what the market demands. They would have gone out of business.

Have you ever considered raping your own face?

we should automate sports with robots
i would actually watch that

So video games?

White people.

lmao so I can buy a condo in chiraq and claim I live there while making bank elsewhere while also drianing chicago of it's garbage tax money?
Fuck yeah

WOW they're like modern day founding fathers.
Where's the UBI money going to come from?

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NEET ECONOMICS MAKE AMERICA COMFY AGAIN

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Forgot to add.
$500/mo x 1000 senpai x 12/mo a year = $6,000,000 with no return on investment.
Chicago populations 2.6m , avg family size 2.6. Meaning 1m families.
$500/mo x 1m families x 12/ Mon a year = $6,000,000,000 / year
Are you telling me the city is prepared spend $6billion a year in a black hole with no ROI. Where will that money come from? Let's even say you give Half population $3b and make the other half taxed to give them the $3b.
You're starting a civil war like this.

AYO HOL UP YOU BE SAYIN THE PRICE OF BLUECAPS AND SKIDDLES IS GOIN UP AN SHIT?

There is a movie about this and it didn't work out well for the humans

The basic income will be taxed... so you can't just spend it all on random shit. It's there to give a little bit more ontop of what ever those people are making.

Their first step on their way to Detroit.

>we can either capable of providing for everyone, or we cant.
A base problem with socialism has always been the concept of incentive. If you are getting everything for free, you have no personal obligation or need to produce. This very quickly shifts from being able to provide for people, to being unable to do so as production dries up yet demand remains the same or even increases. Which then leads to collapse, which we see time and time again in hard socialist nations.

>There's no such thing as infinite supply yet.
There never will be, doing so would break fundamental laws of the universe.

read: the rest of IL could soon pay even more for chicongo niggers

>state funding crisis
>running out of money
>now going to give people free money

Southern Illinois secession when?