Last thread hit the limit, link:
Original text:
get mad when lefties play the feels card but their entire argument against abortion is purely emotional? I don’t give a shit about unborn children for the same reason I feel nothing when I swat a fly or shoot a stray dog. Fetuses don’t suffer.
Tell me why I’m wrong with logic instead of “MUH BEAUTIFUL BABIES” tier feels>realz (((arguments)))
Not original OP btw
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Fetuses suffer just as much as infants do.
Are you okay with infanticide?
So, arguments against abortion that aren't emotional?
>Arguments against murder that aren't emotional?
Saying a fetus is a human after a certain month/after it leaves the vagina is completely arbitrary
So we should assume it's a human as soon as it it's conceived, so we avoid killing innocents whether we're aware or not.
People make feels arguments against it but most of them aren't. Yes, evangelicals are retarded, doesn't mean everyone here is one.
Yup.
They aren't capable of conceptualizing suffering. Additionally, this isn't a logical argument, it's still emotional.
Infants aren't capable of "conceptualizing" suffering, so you're okay with murdering them? Am I understanding you correctly?
OP from last thread here
Fetuses are not infants and it depends
What characteristics do infants have that makes them more worthy of moral consideration that fetuses?
*than fetuses
I support eugenic abortion practices but I also support taking sexual liberties away from women
Im very ProLife and against all forms of abortion... for my family, because I hope my bloodline is ensured well into the future.
I could give a shit if a bunch of whores kill their babies. In fact it is probably a more humane thing to do since the kid's life was bound to be a waste anyway.
For thee not for me. So long as idiots keep aborting themselves the herd of humanity atleast sustains a willful culling.
Do you believe in right and wrong?
If you accept abortion in your society, how do you know your descendants won't start doing it?
Abortion ain't murder.
There is no suffering involved, and even if there was, yes, they wouldn't be able to comprehend it or even have anything close to a cognizant thought. How do you feel about slaughtering animals? They have more of a consciousness than a fetus.
The Retard's Dilemma
>they wouldn't be able to comprehend it or even have anything close to a cognizant thought.
is it okay to torture you through means you don't understand?
Right and wrong are inherently arbitrary, depending on your belief system. Hence, feels.
Fetuses rely completely on their mum to survive. Biologically, they aren't a separate organism.
It is.
What do you mean? If some 4 dimensional being "tortured" me and I didn't suffer in any way that I could understand then it's not really "torture" is it?
They're basically just tumours matey.
Fetuses physiologically depend on their mum to survive. They're not separate organisms, so they can't be murdered. It's basically cutting off a tumor.
What is your definition of murder?
Now that we've established you're okay with killing infants, why not toddlers?
As for animals, what if I told you I'm a vegan?
So why are you trying to change my mind right now?
Infants rely completely on their mum to survive. If you leave an infant alone for a few days, it will die guaranteed.
>I didn't suffer in any way
yes, you do though, you would be in horrible pain without understanding anything else
At what point do we stop calling them Fetuses?
DISINFORMATION
>Every life is sacred
>But I support the death penalty
How do I know they wont start robbing banks and shooting heroin? Its their decision man.
All I CAN do is be the best parent I can be so my kids will want to follow suit with this belief. Other than that, if you have ideas on how to affect the free will of your family from beyond the grave, so they dont fuck up, I am all ears.
But, the fact remains that infants are a separate organism. You can't give a fetus to another woman, so they're like giant tumors.
I never said I was ok with killing infants.
As for animals and being a vegan, if it's not for medical purposes, that's feels.
And why be that?
>They're not separate organisms, so they can't be murdered.
killing a pregnant mother is double murder.
>no crime is worthy of death penalty
retard
when they stop being fetuses
I support the execution of those who have taken a life.
I don't support the death penalty for those who have never committed a crime.
Apparently your mom agrees with me.
When they're born?? It's not that hard.
So life isn't sacred and you're just having a double standard
>>Every life is sacred
Who are you quoting?
Why accept evil in your community when abolishing it ultimately benefits your progeny?
Babies are just as reliant on their mother as fetuses. The only difference is physical connection.
Why does physical connection determine moral consideration?
Why aren't you okay with killing infants?
So, if you were underwater and breathing through a tube...
I could cut the tube and it would not be murder?
If I'm comprehending and experiencing the pain then that means I understand it on some level.
Your premise was that I don't understand the torture.
A fetus is not even conscious when an abortion takes place, there is no thought on behalf of the fetus.
You can't take a fetus' life cause it has no life. It's just a mass of cells with no feelings and it can't survive for any period of time by itself, and it's not conscious.
Abortion as a cultural concept is the death of that culture. Fertility and civilization are intrinsically linked. A population that has sex for pleasure instead of for creation will inevitably perish in the sands of time. I don’t agree with abortion, except for places like Africa but I would say sterilization is the best for it. The only time a child should be killed is when they are birthed and are proven to be either be to much of a burden on the family in terms of their disability or if the child’s existence will only be miserable. Strong societies never kept their retarded offspring alive
You could transplant a fetus.
Define please.
At what point to they become a human infant.
Again, their "mother" could be any other person. And fetuses aren't conscious.
The fetus' mother could be any other person if the biological mother simply waits 9 months.
>And fetuses aren't conscious.
They're just as conscious as infants.
But also it's not conscious. It doesn't know that it's a living thing.
If it doesn't apply to you don't respond. Or are you annoyed that it secretly describes you?
If you legalize murder this discussion becomes moot.
By this logic, you can freely kill people in a coma.
>If I'm comprehending and experiencing the pain then that means I understand it on some level.
fetuses can understand the pain on some level, then. It just depends on how old they are.
Consciousness isn't a factor in determining whether or not something is alive, you don't suddenly become not alive when you fall into a coma.
No, not really. Once they're born, it's not a fetus.
I was born three months premature.
My birth was more akin to a miscarriage.
And yet I lived.
So you saying the moment I passed through my mothers vagina, I was no longer just a mass of cells and was in fact a living infant?
You become braindead. And it's ok to take braindead people off life support.
It’s not a matter of whether a fetus has life or not. That’s not the dilemma with abortion, it’s pushed by the churches but it has a more basic concept and that concept is that sex is meant for pro creation not material hedonism and pleasure
>They're just as conscious as infants
No
>space jin
oh my
Google it
"Murder" is legal under certain circumstances though. Capital punishment, war, self-defense, mercy, etc. Doesn't change the fact that it's feels.
Is it okay to slit the throat of a fetus two days before it's due to be born?
Demographics is destiny and killing off generations of whites and North Asians is bad. That said, it's mostly well balanced by the kids killing themselves off by the droves. I will continue to decry abortion for my own people and continue to not give a fuck as long as the shitskins are wiping themselves out.
For the most part, anyone who would get an abortion would be a fucking awful parent statistically raising criminal awful humans.
You don't know yourself? This is a debate. At this moment I am debating you, not google.
you're assuming that. What if you're wrong?
And you think a baby knows it's living?
Fetus and infant only refers to physical connection to the mother. Why does physical connection determine moral consideration?
>If a mother doesn't want a born child, she can just give them up for adoption
But that still requires physical effort: going through the process of adoption. This can take months.
Carrying a fetus until birth is also physical effort. Where's the fundamental difference?
So consciousness is magically granted by passing through a vagina?
There should be emotionally based restrictions on murder.
Dude I don't care. It's the mom's decision.
So, if a baby does not understand the concept of life...
We should kill it?
>the consciousness meme
Is personhood magically granted by egg meeting sperm? No. Are people in comas conscious? No. Are braindead people conscious? No. Are fetuses conscious? No.
Being brain dead and being non-conscious is not the exact same thing.
Here's the nonthumbnail version
danbooru.donmai.us
No. That's not why we should "kill" it (more like removing a tumor but ok). It's why it's okay to do it if the mom can't afford to have a child or if it's from rape, incest, whatever.
>It's why it's okay to do it if the mom can't afford to have a child
adoption
The point is to be life affirming wherever you can. But you're all dumb Americans anyway, so you don't innately get it.
I agree that consciousness as the value that grants moral consideration is a total meme. Anyone who says babies are conscious but infants aren't is a retard.
>Is personhood magically granted by egg meeting sperm?
No, it's scientifically granted.
>Are people in comas conscious? No. Are braindead people conscious? No. Are fetuses conscious? No.
That's why I don't use consciousness as my definition of personhood. I use being a human as my definition.
*Anyone who says babies are conscious but fetuses aren't is a retard.
>Is personhood magically granted by egg meeting sperm? No
Humanity is though.
>It's okay to kill babies if it's inconvenient
Edgy.
So are cancers human because they are a clump of human cells?
What is humanity? Having human cells? Why is humanity important?
If a 4D being tortured you in a way that took away your ability to manifest 4D. Would you say you didn't suffer?
Ok maybe but being in a foster home is taxing on a child. It'd be better if you just got rid of it when you could.
Cancer cells don't have a unique genome.
No, because they're tumours and don't grow into fully functional walking and talking human beings with a will to live.
I am all about a nuanced answer to this. In the case of incest, rape or where it will risk the life of the mother? I could be persuaded.
But that is not where we are now.
There are now literally people screeching and threatening to riot if they are not allow to have abortion on a whim, which makes me question my willingness to compromise in the first place.
(By the way. Comparing an unborn infant to a tumor... classy!)
Is it okay to kill people in comas? No. Recently a man has been convicted of murder for feeding his gf abortion pills. I think this whole argument hinges on the assumption that women should have equal rights to a man, yet have control over life and death.
Yeah?? Do you know the cost of having a kid? And they're not babies, they are fetuses. Big difference.
of course not. This argument exploits people's ignorance.
A fetus - developing baby - is an individual, as it has his own dna and will soon have: his own heart, his own brain, his own hand etc.
Liberals just like to call it a clump of cells because without further knowledge, it looks like one.
What's the big difference?
Techically we just don't have the technology yet. But if you ever go into a coma and lose the ability to breath on your own or something I'll remember to revoke your personhood asap and claim all your assets.
>It'd be better if you just got rid of it when you could.
The child should make the decision and not someone else taking their lives.
>Why is humanity important?
The absolute state of pro-abortionists.
There are also people screeching and threatening to riot, and bomb, abortion clinics because they want to force people to keep something that might negatively change your life.
>Cancer cells don't have a unique genome
They do and become independent of the body's commands to self terminate, that's how cancer works
What makes a human a person though? If humanity is a specific kind of human organism what makes specific potentials to be a full human the same as a fully formed human? Potential to be isn't a proper answer as its a vague and abstact concept that just opens up a whole can of worms as to whether we should imprison certain people for their potential to commit crimes and other nonsense.
Answer the question.