Words spoken by Jesus about the old testament:

Words spoken by Jesus about the old testament:

John 10:35
"Scripture cannot be set aside"

Matthew 5:18
"For truly i say unto you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished"

Matthew 22:31
"Have you not read what was said to you by God"

We can deduce that in terms of authority Jesus affirms the old testament.

But what about the historicity? Did Jesus believe all the events of the old testament actually happened?
Let's see what he says:

Luke 17:29
"On the day when Lot went out of Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all"

Luke 11:51
"From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary"

Matthew 19:4
"Haven't you read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female?"

So, is Jesus lying? Is he ignorant of science and history? Or is the old testament including genesis literally true, and the world is ~6000 years old as per the lifespans of the full genealogy from the beginning of the world given in matthew 1?


Mark 12:26
"Have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?"

John 6:31
"Our fathers ate manna in the wilderness"

Attached: genesis-account-of-creation.jpg (2048x1422, 402K)

Other urls found in this thread:

nbcnews.com/science/environment/earths-rocks-contain-hidden-oceans-worth-water-n130961
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faint_young_Sun_paradox
creation.com/fossils-out-of-order
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Looking for genuine answers here, i dont see how this can be reconciled outside of either the world being created 6k years ago or Jesus saying an untrue thing.

>he doesn't know about the others outside the garden

....afaik there was nobody else except adam and eve, thats why all of humanity is said to be descended from adam

If youre saying there was a 2nd secret prior creation then thats a very bizarre doctrine that no church father believed in, how come they didnt know about it?

>world being created 6k years ago
Around 6000 years. But yes, that is the right answer.

So every historian and geologist is just full of it?

Thats actually not that hard to believe, id you look into how they came up with mitochondrial eve, they just applied a retardedly inaccurate mutation rate onto DNA and "estimated" the age of the origin.

But really the much more fucky part, im Joshua 10:13 the israelites tell the sun to stand still for a day which is total bullcrap unless the earth is flat and the sun is close, which I do not believe at all:

Joshua 10:13-14
"So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[b] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!"

>So every historian and geologist is just full of it?
Mostly, yes.

>the israelites tell the sun to stand still for a day
pretty awesome miracle, but that's the point of miracles. to be unexplainable with science. I don't think the world is flat, but the sun probably revolves around the earth.

"Sun revolves around the earth"

See this is what i mean, you have to believe very obviously demonstrably untrue things to believe the old testament, which then poses a problem since the new teatment affirms the historicity of the old, including Jesus' own words, verbatim.

>So, is Jesus lying? Is he ignorant of science and history? Or is the old testament including genesis literally true, and the world is ~6000 years old as per the lifespans of the full genealogy from the beginning of the world given in matthew 1?

Jesus was not omniscient until the resurrection. He was only granted perfect knowledge of the human spirit and his revealed mission, but he was otherwise a human being who was imbued with the Holy Spirit. The life he led was one of a carpenter and rabbi of those times.

An example of a lack of divine knowledge.

Matthew 27:46 King James Version (KJV)

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Then how can the following be true:

Matthew 12:25
"And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation"

Colossians 2:9
"In him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

Alsohe foreknew that Judas would betray him, how without omniscience?

Council of Chalcedon says Jesus had
"Two natures, the property of each nature being preserved and concurring in one substance"

I already stated this. Jesus had knowledge of the human spirit and condition and his mission. That doesn't necessitate that he has knowledge of all things.

And the councils have pointed out that Jesus only had the knowledge as a human that was granted by the Father. This is no way harms the dual nature.

Torah commands Jews to conquer the world through money-lending...exactly what Rothschilds have done. Abrahamism is cancer.

>if only you obey the LORD your God and are careful to follow all these commandments I am giving you today. 6When the LORD your God blesses you as He has promised, you will lend to many nations but borrow from none; you will rule over many nations, but be ruled by none.
>Deuteronomy 15:6

Attached: rothschild money lenders torah.jpg (926x529, 109K)

How can the godhead dwell FULLY in him if a core property of the godhead, namely omniscience, isn't in him?

And why was this view not held for 2000 years? Are you saying all the church fathers and councils were wrong?

Not to mention, the default view of the inerrancy of the bible flies out the window with this doctrine that Jesus was wrong about history and old testament is mythology

is that a fucking ufo firing lasers are people? ANCIENT ALIENS CONFIRMED

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But Adam and Eve's sons fought with others in great wars.
I truly believe that the telling of Adam and Eve has a more symbolic meaning. But I believe that human consciousness and more importantly, soul, was the expulsion of Adam and Eve from heaven (the Garden of Eden) down to earth.

And if Adam was made from mud and people evolved from a bacteria, or other proto-organism, presumably in mud, can't a clear semblance be made between the two?
The story the book tells is the absolute truth, but there are things we know now that can justify it's meanings and translate them more accurately.

In the book of Job it affirms that the world was created in six actual days.
Global flood explains the layers, and if the water came from inside the earth, then it is not outside the realm of possibility that there was an unprecedented amount of volcanic activity as water covered the surface of the earth.
Also there is the faint red sun parodox (I believe that's what it's called). Where judging by our sun, something is not right in terms of it's maturity (if I remember correctly).
>could be the source of the flood water
>"Earth's Rocks Contain a Hidden Ocean's Worth of Water"
nbcnews.com/science/environment/earths-rocks-contain-hidden-oceans-worth-water-n130961

Faint young Sun paradox
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faint_young_Sun_paradox

>Fossil records discrepancies
>creation.com/fossils-out-of-order
>Trilobites, which are allegedly 500 myo in the Cambrian strata, have eyes that are far too complex for their place in the fossil record. That is, they have no precursors to their appearance.
>Perhaps most astonishingly, pollen fossils—evidence of flowering plants—were found in the Precambrian strata. According to evolutionists, flowering plants first evolved 160 mya, but the Precambrian strata is older than 550 mya.
>Dinosaurs are supposed to have evolved into birds. But Confuciusornis was a true beaked bird that pre-dates the ‘feathered’ dinosaurs that it allegedly came from. It also has been found in the stomach of a dinosaur.
>Grass which has been found in fossilized dinosaur coprolites (fossilized dung). But grass is not supposed to have evolved until at least 10 million years after the dinosaurs went extinct.
There are more, all in bullet points to. You're free to check them out. But from the best I can gather, it is astonishing. I believe that Jesus is real based off my own research.

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Cain and abel did not fight against others, where does it say that? I just read the chapter, no indication of that.

As for creation in the mud, is that an endorsement of evolution from mud to man?

Also this view cant be true since the new testament says repeatedly that by adam came first ever sin, and death by sin, which would mean you had entire civilizations of immortal sinless people outside the garden, which is ridiculous

The Bible is communicated to people in such a way that they can understand it and make sense of it. The stories that makes up the old testament were perfect given their currently held beliefs, and their current understanding of nature. The formulations also does not ruin things for the future peoples reading, since they will be able to study the past and use their advanced knowledge to figure things out. This is why the bible is still read and studied after thousands of years, and people still find it true. You can read it as a desert dweller living 3000 years ago, or a roman legionaire, a russian tsar, or a computer scientist in the internet age, and still understand.

>should i take it literally or figuratively
Neither. If you find yourself asking that question then you are probably reading it wrong. One reason is probably that you're not a church goer, i.e. consume the message through people who spent their life studying the bible (and surrounding material written by other people who did the same thing for the last couple of thousand years). There is context, and laymen simply does not have that knowledge and education, hence the church.

The bible is not a textbook, it's something you live.

I don't doubt that we are being lied to. Evolution is certainly not true.

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>you have to believe very obviously demonstrably untrue things to believe the old testament
not that i wanna flat-earth fag here, but can you really demonstrate to yourself that the Sun revolves around the Earth?

This is not an answer at all.

Every christian denomination on the planet holds that jesus was god in the flesh and could not lie. Youre either saying the old testament is not true and Jesus was a liar, or you're not. It's not an issue where you can fall imbetween. Why would God in the flesh refer to old testament stories literally, as a matter of history, if they weren't?

Not really, since i cant fly and look, but i could probably get a telescope and study the parallax and eventually arrive at it

I dont really have a reason not to believe it, if i only believed what i can personally empirically arrive at through research i wouldnt be able to believe much at all

earlier you were ready to accept that the earth may be 6000 years old and that geologists etc are wrong, but here you're saying the Sun obviously and demonstrably revolves around the Earth, even though the only thing that makes it obvious is that this is what the scientific community agrees on.

You mean earth around Sun, buddy

Zionists and governments push religion to keep citizens stupid and ignorant. No rational human believes any of it.

Imagine a God that is able to reverse engineering a whole universe with a past that reaches as far as a few trillion years ago but in fact created it 6000 years ago. He could also made dinasour bones and all that shit but never have them actually walk earth once.

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yippa

>Imagine a God that is able to reverse engineering a whole universe with a past that reaches as far as a few trillion years ago but in fact created it 6000 years ago
sure it's plausible just seems weird'
>He could also made dinasour bones and all that shit but never have them actually walk earth once.
why would He do this

>why would He do this
Just think about it. Im not in the mood to write a wall of Text rn

Friendly reminder that scientists used mathematical models that affirmed geocentrism for hundreds of years and just because a scientist says something doesn't mean it's true.

Attached: Apparent_retrograde_motion.gif (512x256, 82K)

Maybe lying isnt a sin.

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