This is a thread for discussing the ideas and theories of Ted Kaczynski as expressed in his writings, as well as the wider Anarcho-Primitivism, Eco-Fascism, Reactionary, and Anti-Modern movement as a whole. This is a purely intellectual thread, meant to discuss Kaczynski's ideas, everyone is welcome to contribute.
Anarcho-primitivism is for the enlightened. It's for people that realize "having the most people" isn't a measure of human success.
Mason Perry
One of the main concepts of anarcho-primitivism is to be ethnically separated regionally.
With anarcho-primitivism you never have to worry about overpopulation, destroying the environment, nuclear catastrophe, getting jewed by jews, etc. Only the strong survive. No longer would people that cannot support themselves exist. That's a real world. No more mocha latte's for the fake undeserving semi-human that has never tested their mind or body and never has the expectation of having to do so.
No more ivory toward for cowards to speak from. Just the real world.
Lucas Roberts
Ivory tower**
Easton Howard
Uncle Ted is the most intelligent man to ever live and is virtually infallible.
Yes, it's hard to be a neet or a coward in the anarcho-primitive(real) world. Yes, your weak complaints will fall deafly on the ears of deserving men. Men that earn their life every day.
Zachary Lopez
>Disregarding agriculture/establishing villages I'm curious as to why you wouldn't see all that as an interference with the power process? Sooner or later people are going to catch up, and other races will start sailing once again.
Justin Barnes
>Accelarionist Jacobite Mag says Ted's ideas grow in popularity and Eco-Fascism is on the rise in the Right Wing
Does anyone have any good resources on permaculture? All i can find are shitty soccer mom blogs
Aaron Martinez
Anarcho-primitivism is the correct way to live, it's the natural way to live. This doesn't imply that people can't make advantages that help them in the short term but hurt them in the long term(modeen society). This is the same concept as "having the most people". Of course it will happen, but this isn't a measure of success. We are interested in living a correct life by the order of natural law.
Juan Parker
To add to this, anarcho-primitivism becomes very organized but simply on a local/tribe level.
I grew up in the wilderness of Kentucky. I was taught to respect the Earth, as it is much greater than myself. I was also taught that we should have freedom.
I have no room in my heart for the cowards that would rather choose an easy life than a natural life.
If you cannot survive in the wilderness for 365 days with no supplies or gear and convincingly have thrived, then you simply haven't earned your warrant to be a living creature. Humans have exempted themselves from the test of nature and the consequences are already wildly available if you look at our cities.
For a long time I thought he was a just crazy. Then I started researching him a bit and found out about the MKultra and being red-pilled like a mofo newfound respect for him. Even better he was chilling in montana miles away from where I live.
Don't know much about his ideas but i do know that murder is a sin. He's right where he belongs and he did it to himself. The man was too smart for his own good; he would have been way better off with 20 or 30 fewer IQ points. He will never experience the wilderness again and that's good.
Chase Rodriguez
I dont condone murdering of government agents but not much was lost, think how many they kill per year just to take money from them
Noah Howard
Didn't some of his bombs hurt the mail men who had to carry them? I bet those mail men don't believe that nothing was lost. Sending a bomb in the mail while you hide in a shack way out in the middle of nowhere is just so cowardly. It's repulsive.
Kevin Long
mail men are government agents
Aiden Hernandez
Cheap shot. Not the type of government agents that you meant, and you know it.
Christian Jenkins
mail men are government agents
Gabriel Gray
I've come to anarcho primitivism from a completely different background. Never read anything by ted; didn't even know what it was called until someone made fun of me for being an-prim.
Jayden Hughes
can someone give me a basic gestalt? is it technology itself that he's against, or merely the idea of a "technocrat" class who control and enslave the majority WITH technology? and if it's technology itself, why did he have two rifles in his cuckshed, a 30-06 and a .22? why didnt he simply chase the animals to the point of exhaustion like our ancestors did (yes, homo sapiens really can hunt this way. we're like bi-pedal wolves.) seems hypocritical to me. "w-well i NEED to hunt to feed myself guys! at least i used wooden parts in my bombs!" pffft! weak
Just looked at his victims and i see that none of the injured were mail men. You can quit gloating now.
Aaron Fisher
Anarcho-primitivism is the way of life that people without fear, and a fuckload of integrity adopt.
The cowards will die out, and then nobody will be there to disagree with living a natural life.
Luis Ross
His view is that technology, as it's used today, is a tool to make people less free, and it should instead liberate us. He's not against technology itself, but against the way it's being currently utilized. It makes you a slave to the system, forced to exist in the way that is considered "conventional".
Cameron King
I never understood why anarcho-primitivism is a held position. If you want to see a de-civilized society, just keep importing nigs, society will collapse soon enough.
Brody Gutierrez
>can someone give me a basic gestalt? is it technology itself that he's against, or merely the idea of a "technocrat" class who control and enslave the majority WITH technology? and if it's technology itself, why did he have two rifles in his cuckshed, a 30-06 and a .22? why didnt he simply chase the animals to the point of exhaustion like our ancestors did (yes, homo sapiens really can hunt this way. we're like bi-pedal wolves.) seems hypocritical to me. "w-well i NEED to hunt to feed myself guys! at least i used wooden parts in my bombs!" pffft! weak re-posting since the mongoloid guy started spamming
Noah Richardson
Ted deliberately made his bombs very weak, the vast majority of his bonbs hurt nobody at all. Ted was very upset to find out about the deaths.
Jayden Rivera
How many deaths should be attribute to the evil government mail man agents? Lmao. Is this what they mean when they say that Jow Forums is autistic?
Matthew Campbell
The response you got from the Finn was adequate. To understand Ted you simply have to understand integrity.
That's like saying that you took a gun to the mall and shot up the place but you were only shooting to wound, not to kill. Horseshit.
Isaiah Collins
see that makes much more sense to me, superficially, than a varg type who wants people to live in the woods with sticks and no spirituality
Jaxon Gonzalez
It's difficult to give a basic gestalt simply because 160 IQ Ted packs so much in such a small manifesto that it is difficult to summarize.
But to give a decent attempt - Kacyzinski effectively and irrevcably deconstructs the psychological motivation and nature of the academic liberal. Applied to any leftist ideologue, it works as an instantly applicable roadmap into the deepest part of their psyche.
It's been over 20 years and time has proven the truth of his words.
That's the more popular part of the manifesto. The rest of it goes into the ego-driven pursuit of technological "progress" by the elite which is often indifferent to the welfare of Man and Society Kacyzinski prophesizes that this will continue unimpeded until an AI is developed that will have the capacity to make decisions. Sort of like how self-driving cars are able make decisions on the road, but from a far more generalist perspective.
The moment this happens, the bureaucratic class will be rendered instantly obsolete along with the greater portion of humanity. The ruling elite who own the decision-making will begin their purge of excess humans, now useless even as slaves, populating the globe. Or perhaps something even worse.
This is an immature response. The main idea of anprim requires ethnocentralism. The negros will have Africa, as they did before. You won't ever have to so much as even witness a negro in the anprim world.
Henry Fisher
What did he think about Rousseau?
Aiden Turner
Btw ,Jow Forums , what are your ideas of chinese credit system?
Brayden Garcia
your race has contributed nothing of value to human civilization besides spurdo. the world would be better if the soviets had shoah'd you
Wyatt Ortiz
You don't change the nature of a gun when you do this. Better analogy is to use a BB gun.
Jordan Nguyen
>ideas I meant to say opinions
Luke Cook
From his writings I believe it is to be able to live according to your own preferences, without having to rely on government institutions. For example, how many people here live without a smart phone? Without a credit card? Without an apartment in an urban environment? How many would be able to enjoy nature in all its glory within a walking distance? Not many, I would wager.
Carson Green
The naturalist side is borne of morality and preserves the values that become completely forgotten in a modern society.
Jose Ramirez
I don't know exactly what ted's views are regarding technology, but it's more of a common sense to say that some technologies are good and that some are bad.
An ape, for example, with a smart phone, is not going to harm the environment. We are apes with smart phones. The worst thing we could do is dump the plastic from the phones into the ocean, to be eaten by bacteria that will eventually breed to consume the polycarbonate materials. It really isn't going to affect anything.
What DOES affect the Earth, our environment, and our livelihoods, is the systematic destruction of Earth. The process that led to the smart phone is what is going to destroy the Earth.
Agricultural revolution 101: Nothing in excess can be produced without an excess of labor.
Let's say you have a farm, you grow your own vegetables, slaughter your own livestock, and produce many goods and services by yourself; you are a handyman, farmer, carpenter, etc; you don't need to produce an excess of anything. But if you have to take care of a wife and children, then you do have to produce an excess amount. Civilization is built upon this concept; except we're forced to produce an excess for people we don't even care about; this excess is taxes or debt or credit; it goes by many names. But the system that produces the excess requires excess labor; and the only way to get a people to give excess labor is to keep them eternally scarce. The irony is that money to buy simple food to feed a family for a day can buy a technology advanced piece of software and hardware called a "video game". We're so agriculturally lacking, because the system NEEDS people to be afraid of starving; by taxing them and keeping them in debt, they become good workers. But because they rely on the system, they also try to defend it, because they are under its influence and dogma. The very thing that makes them weak and pathetic human beings is the only thing keeping them alive.
William Carter
Ok i don't know anything about him, was he ourguy, did he know about the Jews?
Give me a quick rundown!
Mason Reed
>unironically supporting a left wing environmentalist terrorist because he said a few based and redpilled things about liberals and modern art
Haven't read the article but it might be a reference to a man named Linkola.
Juan Adams
Ted's worldview resonates a lot with me since I've had the pleasure to spend summers in a cabin where I could do just about anything I wanted. Swim, fish, wander around, build camp fires to grill stuff. In Finland that's fairly common, but from what I've gathered most millennials overseas have never even been outside urban areas. No wonder they're okay with a fucking nanny state.
Joseph Martinez
>You must be allowed to possess this utensil to be considered a real country.
Yeah real anarchy is right wing but he was a proponent of the anti-capitalist left wing "anarchism" like antifa and those kinda faggots wank over
Andrew Bell
I was enjoying your thread until you sold yourself as dumb with this comment no, right wing does not mean >muh less government and left wing does not mean >muh more government
Christopher Thompson
I hold the belief that you should individually earn your right to be alive. See You cannot truly earn this right with support from outside factors.
Brayden Perry
No he wasn't. No leftist could live in his world. Not a single one.
Jeremiah Evans
>did he know about the Jews? He was thinking about bigger things.
Isaiah Watson
>It's difficult to give a basic gestalt simply because 160 IQ Ted packs so much in such a small manifesto that it is difficult to summarize. humble 142 IQ me will do my best to keep up >But to give a decent attempt - Kacyzinski effectively and irrevcably deconstructs the psychological motivation and nature of the academic liberal. non-sequitur. "liberal academics are dumb, hence begome a luddite :DDD" wtf? >It's been over 20 years and time has proven the truth of his words. nah not really >That's the more popular part of the manifesto. The rest of it goes into the ego-driven pursuit of technological "progress" by the elite which is often indifferent to the welfare of Man and Society Kacyzinski prophesizes that this will continue unimpeded until an AI is developed that will have the capacity to make decisions. Sort of like how self-driving cars are able make decisions on the road, but from a far more generalist perspective. i stopped reading at "AI" since it will never be a thing. yeah there's deep blue and alexa but there will never be a self-aware AI because science lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the nature of consciousness and you can't artificially replicate something if you don't know what it is. look up "hard problem of consciousness." we're clueless. ray kurzweil is a charlatan. seriously, screen cap this and look at it again in 50 years when we're still no closer to developing true AI >The moment this happens, the bureaucratic class will be rendered instantly obsolete along with the greater portion of humanity. The ruling elite who own the decision-making will begin their purge of excess humans, now useless even as slaves, populating the globe. Or perhaps something even worse. guess its a good thing it will never happen then lol
Caleb Wright
It's not my thread. Also, self-determination is at the core of being right wing. This is not the case for left wing. Anarchy cannot be left wing. You are confusing anarchists with edgy criminals.
Andrew Johnson
That's not a bad outlook on life, everyone should have to survive on their own for some period. It would make people, if nothing else, appreciate their existence. But I do have a quesition: Did YOU survive in the wilderness for a year with zero help or supplies whatsoever?
Bentley Gray
>lol this stuff will never happen
What an incredible statement
Jason Turner
Yes for longer than 365 days. When I was 15. I am a highly skilled outdoorsman.
Carter Hernandez
well i did qualify the statement with a supporting argument. i didnt just say "will never happen" and leave it at that...
Kayden Ramirez
>i stopped reading at "AI" since it will never be a thing. yeah there's deep blue and alexa but there will never be a self-aware AI because science lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the nature of consciousness and you can't artificially replicate something if you don't know what it is. look up "hard problem of consciousness." we're clueless. ray kurzweil is a charlatan. seriously, screen cap this and look at it again in 50 years when we're still no closer to developing true AI
You're wrong. We don't need to understand it to create it.
The beginning neural nets (convolutional in particular) never exposed their logic in the hidden layers of the perceptron. Only now do we actually have the tools to peel back those hidden layer neurons to understand how they work. The neural nets functioned perfectly without our knowledge of how they made decisions.
The first AI will work much the same way. We may have to ask it if it can explain how it works, and many surmise that the moment of sentience occurs when it's completed such a recursive analysis.
There's a reason why Elon Musk and the majority of OpenAI people are worried about AGI. There's so many ways it can go wrong and very few ways it can go right.
>i stopped reading at "AI" since it will never be a thing. yeah there's deep blue and alexa but there will never be a self-aware AI
>thinks the real threat is AI becoming "self-aware"
okay I can see I'm talking to a brainlet here
Hudson Baker
Let's say AI is never achieved, Governments will STILL use technology to manipulate you more and more each day.
Jackson Myers
Good for you. I despise people who ask of others to do something they themselves aren't capable of, but you don't fall into that lot.
Jackson Gray
The more you undnerstand the inherent position of anarchy, the more you realize how rightwing it actually is.
The left-right wing dichotomy itself was used to describe people's views during and after the French revolution; the left being liberal to the ideas of politics; the right being conservative to the old ways and ideas espoused by the aristocrats of old.
If I have a child, and I fence that child from the road, then the child will live without fear, being absolved of needing to know anything about road safety. But if I remove the fence, he has to learn. The restriction absolved him of having to make a life decision. In morality, laws act as a restriction that absolves us of needing to make moral decisions. Countries rely upon a Marxist or capitalistic system to keep us enslaved to feed the ever-growing beast. Politics are nothing more than peaceful compromises, with each new law being less than 100% satisfactory. We compromise on living with and tolerating immoral behavior, but rely on a criminal-justice system to deal with those who break strict laws. By and by, those laws absolve us of having moral opinions, like the ending of prohibition, when liquor become more drunk and more available. But eventually, the freedom leads to a natural order.
The leftwing has always historically been associated with laws, restrictions, compromises, and the inflating social bubble that is soon to crash.
The rightwing has always been associated with going back to a natural order, giving the people more right, allowing the people to sort itself out, and preventing as much damage from the left progression as possible.
Aiden Sanchez
I decided a long time ago as a young boy that I would suffer all the consequences of having pure unihibited fearless integrity as if I were on top of a mountain and the winds were sandpaper.
Angel Reed
his manifesto should be required reading, i love the part about how society will become more and more restrictive and consequently leave its members feeling more and more empty and unfulfilled. 20 years on from its publication we see people this coming true every day.
Elijah Torres
Actually, I would also like to ask you how that came to be? Did your parents put you up for it? How was the experience?
Lincoln Powell
there's a pretty interesting irony to consider that this man's ideas wouldnt have spread if it werent for technology
so AI will just magically spring into existence because computers are fast and the internet is really big and complex and muh emergent properties, basically? yeah, that's an interesting faith you hold there lol. i make it a personal rule not to challenge people on religious matters because belief without evidence has nothing to do with reason so its pointless to debate it. so i will simply say i dont share your beliefs and i'm not worried about skynet or rocco's basilisk or whatever enslaving me hush johnny, the grownups are talking
Grayson Nguyen
Wasn't my parents. Was purely myself. I seem to have been born with this desire. Maybe, but who knows? It was very easy. I live in Kentucky, and our wilderness is nice. We have caves and lots of waterways and animals and fish to eat all you want. I did get full body poison ivy about half way through, I fell into a patch of it. Worst 3 weeks of my life, but I survived through it and kept going. I probably could not have done this in Alaska or Montana. We have large temperature shifts in Kentucky, but with natural caves everywhere you can deal with this. Yeah, I literally made clothes out of reeds and insulated with moss.
Yes, there really ARE a fuckload of methlabs in the woods here.
Xavier Carter
The enlightened non-coward realizes that people with disabilities shouldn't survive if they can't.
Ryan Morales
Ted's entire argument was that the system we live in, in modern society, is extremely interconnected and interrelated that we're marching ever onwards towards a greater diminishing of human freedom; his ideas weren't a simple "lol, fuck all technology, just eat plants man," not to imply that's the argument you're making--I implore you to give his manifesto a read, it's pretty to the point about his ideas.
Some of the examples he uses of how technology traps us is, for example, cars: first you think it increases your freedom, after all when cars were first introduced they weren't encroaching on people who prefer walking or horseback, yet gradually as the technology got more advanced, and more people started buying cars, suddenly cities had to be designed around the use of cars, suddenly most people aren't in walking distance of their place of work, and suddenly even people who didn't want a car would need one, the system would break down if we got rid of cars, so it's important that everyone involved has a car and uses it.
Another example he uses are computers. When they first started out, Ted describes them as essentially "expensive toys", then they got more advanced, the government started using them, then consumers started using them--Hell it's gotten even worse since Ted first made those comments, I remember back in school when the classroom was split in half between people who had computers at home and people who didn't, now everyone has a computer in their pockets, on their phone. Can you ever go through life WITHOUT a computer now? It's gotten to the point that computers are implicitly required to complete every course in every school across America, and even a few schools are now requiring that parents buy tablets for their kids. Ted's argument was that you can't just suddenly say "Well no one use computers now" or "no one use cars", because our society is inherently, implicitly, woven together.
Wyatt Carter
Ability to engage in what he calls the "power process" and high individual autonomy, the freedom of the frontiersman living in nature, rather than the urbanite. Ted's freedom is the kind where, if you don't like where you live, you can burn your old house down with everything inside it and just keep walking until you find a better place.
>so AI will just magically spring into existence because computers are fast and the internet is really big and complex and muh emergent properties, basically?
No, someone will inevitably combine different neural nets in such a way that an AGI will emerge. Whether that occurs over a network or in a cohesive single project, no one knows.
Right now we have narrow-AI neural nets, but as chatbots start to take off and ingest more information, these neural nets get more advanced and nuanced. Tay is a good example of unsurpervised training gone wrong.
There's no religion involved here, as long as there is market incentive to develop AI to drive down costs and there are smart people who like to tinker (we aren't in short supply of either) then AI is an inevitable outcome of current conditions.
Read his manifesto, Industrial Society and Its Future, it's in the OP. Ted was a genius, and his manifesto deconstructs in the first paragraphs, the very psychology of leftists.
So where does BAP's bronze age mindset fit in the sphere of archao primitism?
Half way through his book, and he rejects modernity, but he wishes to have spiritual mongolians to come in the burn down the decaying foundation a society. Sorry if I got his thoughts wrong as the first third is his conceptions of life and being, and I am into his contentions with modernity.
We're a species that thrives on tool making and learning and understand our environment. Maybe, for the sake of the planet, we ought to euthanize ourselves as a whole from existence. But to maintain existence is to further our understanding and knowledge of the world around us, to really internalize the hard truths, truths like:
>People with bad eyesight ought to be bred out of existence >People with bad immune systems oughtn't breed. >Stronger humans that require less technology ought to breed. >Smarter humans ought to breed.
If someone really had to be cut out of a woman's stomach, forced on medication all its life, requiring an inhaler, avoiding allergens, needing someone else to do the hunting and foraging, not ever having lived a fully productive voluntary existence, then they oughtn't have the right to exist. It's as simple as that. It's not sustainable for someone like that to exist.
For the world to be a moral place, millions are going to have to die; that's the case for evolution; it always has been, always will be.
Evan Phillips
I'm just gonna admit that I couldn't do that this far north. Ain't no caves here, or anything. All the lakes are nice in the summer, but the winter is grim.
Christian Garcia
>Ted's entire argument was that the system we live in, in modern society, is extremely interconnected and interrelated that we're marching ever onwards towards a greater diminishing of human freedom so what though? "freedom" is a spook. it always has been. even prehistoric hunter gatherer societies were inter-dependent. we're social animals. who cares if we all have phones in our pockets? oooh scary lol
Christopher Scott
Personally I think 20k humans in an isolated mountain range away from the rest of the world is ideal. Anything more than that is unsatisfactory for me.
Noah Ross
Yeah, I'm not an expert in winter survival but white people do have an advantage. With my current skillset, my limit is -20 degrees in American units. That is not for a few hours, but sustained. You can certainly survive with the correct skills in even the coldest of environments, however.
