Why do you consider yourself a socialist when your ideology is mirrored, supported and even in some cases funded by political institutions like the EU, mainstream media and almost every prime minister in the world, hence globalism. Do you consider yourselves rebels, outsiders?
We on Jow Forums are Populists, not conservative, they may have a shared agenda but we are populist with regards to the entire political establishment. Why do you lefties put so much trust into the political establishment?
you obviously dont support the classically marxist principle of class struggle, the working class against the wealthy. And most of you live in the cities and have a considerable amount of wealth. You demand that the poor and needy accept Your judgement in regards to immigration but refuse them to voice their criticism when they are affected by it. You claim race is socially constructed, and that genders and racism is not?
You claim to love other cultures but want to see them destroyed by giving all power to private corporations or governments whose already merged with private organizations?
I really dont understand this even though I have a great deal of education in humanities, please explain this to a white racist hick like myself.
It's not meant to be understood. We're talking about brainwashing from 12+ years of education. It's anti-logic and anti-nature by definition.
Aaron Barnes
Logic?? Only Russians use logic! PPUUUUUUTTTTTIIIIIIINNNNNNNN
Jack Ward
Because people react better when I tell them that I support the government and global cooperation vs when I tell them that I want cheap labour and cheap taxes.
Henry Barnes
I might actually throw up
Dylan Sullivan
this place is just an echo-chamber. it would be better putting this on leftypol. but even they are marginalized anti establishment weirdos. maybe facebook is the right place
Wyatt Ortiz
>this place is just an echo-chamber >THEY KEEP DELETING MY BBC THREADS
Adam Martin
Are you being serious? Okay, I can maybe understand where you're coming from with that, it's at least a point of entry if you're trying to make your case for others to follow
James Morris
>comeonnow.jpg put up a roastie hate thread and see how diverse the opinions get. We have shills, trolls, and sub-IQ WN. Rarely does anything ever remotely resemble beaverposting anymore.
Camden Harris
I'm guessing I wouldn't be welcome at leftypol or any other lefty sites. You a well known socialist in Norway once supported Trump and Le Pen because of their traction and commitment to the working class during their campaigns, he was fired as an editor for the most well known socialist newspaper in Norway for his views. At least until he rejected his orthodoxy.
Xavier Howard
Thats not an echo chamber. If mods were killing commie general threads, you'd be right. But that doesn't happen. I actually got banned for reporting them for a bit.
Owen Ward
an honest globalist. I can respect you telling me its piss rather than just saying its rain
>wouldn't be welcome they're about as toxic as this place. they spin their own narratives and echo-chambers so you'll have resistance based on people knowing you're not one of the herd, but you'll get real responses. Again, they're pretty anti neo liberal so you won't really find any global economy supporters. Not surprising about your editor though. the dissonance between socialist values and neoliberalism is obfuscated by shame and censorship. There really isn't a point in engaging the gatekeepers on this. I'm a millennial boomer and after seeing this play out for years its apparent to me that the dissonance is enforcement of power. Rule with popular consent if the consent is based on propaganda. That for so long hypocritical measures and actions have been taking place is testament to the fact that the interests being served need media outlets to provide just enough misdirection and plausible deniability to keep steering the ship towards a place only they want to go.
Lucas Rogers
idk man this place isn't the same. the commie general threads pale in comparison to what lefty pol goes on about. now I don't agree with leftypol but i at least respect their cogency. That mods don't cut commie threads doesn't tell me its not an echo chamber, the users here ensure that the quality of posts are low all on their own
Alexander Morales
Politics isn't real, they're just bad ideas. I stopped being political once I figured out that most of what I want is what the Founders of the USA did: >freedom of speech >right to bear arms and to defend yourself, your property, and if the government gets out of hand, your country (from a tyrannical government) >no taxation without representation I used to dispute these ideals in one form or another when I was younger and stupider. However, now that I must be responsible (because nothing is free), it’s become apparent that we’re all carving out a little lot for ourselves in this planet, but there are those out there who get theirs by stealing yours. Ultimately, you’re responsible for your lot in life. If somebody tries to fuck with it or you, then you need to be ready to fight, and if necessary, kill to protect what’s yours: youtube.com/watch?v=9VwlSihAMKs This is the final red pill. The only country I can think of that isn’t awash in a rich history of war is the North Pole. I wonder why?
>the users here ensure that the quality of posts are low all on their own That doesn't necessarily mean echo chamber. Infinity pol is an actual echo chamber, though you could argue that helps keep out floods of shit like we've seen here
Bentley Sanders
I guess it depends on who create the propaganda and for what reason. Rocking the boat is something everyone should benefit from.
it can be, yeah. There's probably not one good place, but if you're looking to sample the platter you can't stay in one place anyways.
Rocking the boat is good. I don't think theres any solution but to spread awareness and get others on your side. People follow the bread lines and you have to show them you're not a crackpot looking to burn the whole house down, but show them you have a line forming when they look around and see the house they're in burning down already. Power corrupts, the solution does not lie within the existing institutions of it. Something learned from leftypol - right or wrong the institution will always protect itself reflexively.
Zachary Ross
>I stopped being political once I figured out that most of what I want is what the Founders of the USA did
It doesn't stop politicians from using your vacancy/agency to further their agenda, and if left unchecked for too long they will eventually infringe on your freedoms and rights.
I like those ideals and i believe they are under constant threat by politicians and lobbyists and corporations and they must be preserved.
Michael Foster
A lot of people here share those sentiments
Ryder Flores
> op pic
This is right wing ukranian nazi btw, flag is not anarco-communist, its blood and soil, just for your knowledge
everybody shares those sentiments in one form or another. Its people drafting a moral system for which to interface with society. The leftists have the same train of thought but with wildly different assumptions and premises. Obviously one is more correct or at least works better with a given governmental system. Everybody wants to ego-trip on their system being the mechanism to utopia. The key is finding which one is actually true. But that's been the question since forever.
I'm resigned on the issue. There's no solving with people always jockeying for power. Best you can do is cultivate yourself.
Oliver Perry
Okay, thanks, thought it was Antifa because of the colors.
Brayden Powell
As long this colors is horizontal - this is your friends
>Everybody wants to ego-trip on their system being the mechanism to utopia. I'm not really into utopianism, I just want things to go back to when people had jobs and my community wasn't driven into the ground while my state's focus is purely on foreign affairs, privatization of natural resources and globalization.
When I got into the material I found that nobody really likes displacement of peoples. At least the ones with good intentions doesn't. People want local representation, not being forced to move around the globe for short assignments as well as the locals being affected negatively by immigration without ever having the chance to vote or voice their concerns, but I fear that is the future. The corporate sphere has already merged with political institutions, I think this is the reason for most of the extreme opposition we see to Trump. I could be wrong, I'm open to alternative theories.
Trump comes across as a classical US president. Except for his timing and the inconvenience of him being a former donor. Other than that I cheer for every trade blockade he issues, the more we can offset international trade, the more we can regain control over the market, as people, not as monopolized corporations. It's my belief anyway.
Hunter Nguyen
>Everybody wants to ego-trip on their system being the mechanism to utopia. The key is finding which one is actually true. But that's been the question since forever. I think it's that way by design. There are no two ideologies that are compatible with one another but most people can agree at object-level on quite a few political positions. Outside of a select few elites, no one seems to like corporate lobbyists and the corrupt politicians in their pockets, the too-big-to-fail banking system that always gets bailed out, or the rampant price-fixing in the housing market, to name a few. Yet those issues are always the ones that seem to slide and people prefer squabbling over social issues, no matter how petty.
Jose Sullivan
Yeah I'm in the same place as you. But the power base they have is too great, I hope Trump reverses the tide but I have no illusions that we're headed for global economy. Those at leftypol basically say the same thing, but in their premises is the understanding that this was always inevitable with capitalism and keeping the ownership of work out of the workers hands. When people had jobs and community was the center of daily life, corporations were not the leviathans they are now. this is a very very recent development in history. There's historical precedent for wealth being concentrated at the top before civilizational collapse but never on this scale or in the hands of private businesses. Maybe East India companies would be the closest thing to a parallel case study.
Jack Reed
bingo. that's what I meant earlier about the narratives spun in the larger sphere. As dissonant as they are there is never a proposed solution or even the entertainment of one. People are fully indoctrinated to this system where they will defend it without realizing their position within it. I read something not long ago, I forget where; but it said the vestiges of power are left behind as the real holders of it seek new positions. The presidency and government is taking on women in its ranks, and you can see trump meeting resistance, but its all smoke and mirrors. Who do the legislators get their white papers from?
Noah Bell
Echochamber? There's plenty of left-wing shills here daily.
Oliver Davis
>shills thats the point. you don't get the dyed in the wool socialists from leftypol here. This isn't an agora
Blake Myers
>be liberal >be anti-capitalist >be supported by the largest corporations in the world >be anti-government >be supported by the most authoritarian regimes in the world explain this lefties, how do you justify this level of hypocrisy?
Noah Watson
The working class hates them Rich Jews and globalist bankers love them Some fucking socialist Middle class bourgeois privileged and pampered cunts that harm the interests of workers they claim to represent
Samuel Foster
How is Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Sanders supported by mainstream media? There's almost no coverage of climate change, Goldman Sachs lobbying, etc.
Juan Fisher
Rich jews love Jeremy Corbyn?
Luke Campbell
I agree with you, but I'm a bit more optimistic with regards to the global economy. Thing is if they stopped important 50-80% of what they do co2 emissions would go down by a lot and it would strangle the third parties who have built their private corporate empires with government money only to strangle local competition. Eventually the market will dry up, I suspect they're going to sell their products internally on the Asian market by then. But I think people are waking up to all this.
Joshua Johnson
>Jeremy Corbyn No You
Ian Evans
>There's almost no coverage of climate change
Wtf are you watching / reading? I hear AT LEAST one climate change related piece of news every single day.
Well, their political platforms seemed to be a lot more palatable to the mainstream media, they were also a safer bet so I guess they received more campaign donations, all those have to be paid back with deals that affect the economy negatively. They were also educated politicians with well established political positions and networks. Although it sounds preferable it just means they are easier to predict and play by their donors, unwillingly of course, it doesn't matter what Bernie wants, but it matters what he does when pressured by donors and corporations who claim political affiliation, and have more maleficent ideas in mind. Like with Obama, although i think Obama sold out a little too quickly for his own good.
Jaxon Rogers
its a fucking nightmare. if the economy contracts like that our debt to gdp ratio will fucking skyrocket and we'll be left holding the bag. things will get ugly really quickly. Hopefully people will have enough mercy on ordinary Americans who were being taken for this ride while their government was knocking over banana republics and stockpiling nuclear weapons and let us dissolve into meager little city states.
Carson Jackson
You're a democrat right? Are you a antifa sympathiser as well?
Liam Turner
Thing is its a strongman scenario, I dont think anyone would be willing to risk a third world war or another global rescission if you had to forgo your debt. The only problem is that the debt is probably privatized. But same as with Greece, they should have never have paid, it ended up causing instability within the Eurozone, and all it did was to appease a few financially invested parties .
Ryder Turner
>Greece I can't speak on that one. My understanding is they wanted them to pay but through austerity measures, putting them into multiple defaults. No defaults and no payment is better than several that they weren't going to get paid back on anyways.
>risk a third world war I would't be surprised if it happened but I can't say that we're headed for doomsday either. How we've managed to entangle ourselves in every economy is truly staggering. When we fall I could see half of the world falling with us, but I don't doubt for a second China and Russia will seek to be the dominant trading force in our wake. But in our nuclear scenario, I don't mean the US Gov will fire off multiple weapons, but if our government did collapse, the weapons of mass destruction will no longer be accounted for and scattered to the corners of the globe.
Bentley Mitchell
I'm certainly not antifa supporter. No more than a typical Trump supporter supports neo-nazis.
ABC, CBS and NBC dedicated less than 3 hours combined to climate change during a full year. It's because they are funded by fossil fuel industry. Left wingers are sadly the only ones standing up to the fossil fuel industry that is literally conspiring the destroy the world.
Bernie and Jeremy didn't receive corporate donations. They received donations from ordinary people and unions.
OP claimed that mainstream media supports us. Is there anyone actually claiming that msm is supporting Jeremy Corbyn? Didn't think so.
Eli Reed
I wouldn't be too worried about "the economy" or "debt" especially if I was American Damn near every single one of the countries in the world is in too much national debt to ever pay it off and the global economy is based on nothing but stock market speculation. The banks may be able to dictate the game, but they can't force us to play it if we collectively choose not to.
Nathan Fisher
I think our dollar value is kept high at the point of a sword. There will come a day where our reach extends our grasp. It won't be in my lifetime, but I fear for my future children. Debt is still funny money, but it is still backed by trust. Once that's gone, we're in for a rough ride.
Kevin Clark
>The banks may be able to dictate the game, but they can't force us to play it if we collectively choose not to. its a slow burn though, you'll be saturated in taxes to support their game until we collectively find a way to not need them, which is a tall order.
Jose Jenkins
>I wouldn't be surprised if it happened Me neither, there's too many things going on at the moment, and the old cultural paradigm based on Bourdieu and Foucault doesn't seem to be easily removed to allow room for a newer one. I think that is the premise for the culture conflict. Older professors and activists desperately trying to prevent their paradigm from going under by any means, even though it means societal torture to keep it alive.
Ayden Smith
>Is there anyone actually claiming that msm is supporting Jeremy Corbyn? I would say BBC and The Guardian have been very vocal about it, if not all the time, at least sometimes, and although not always supporting Corbyn directly they written a lot of favourable articles about his party and labour youth. I read the guardian all the time, I read all kinds of news and I think labour comes out as one of the most favoured by the guardian and their readers.
Its scary because I believe most of the opposition to Brexit can be found amongst the voters of labour. Having slowly become a party consisting of upper-class voters.
Benjamin Robinson
Sorry about the typos, having a snack
Jacob Harris
Was familiar with Foucault but not Bourdieu, thanks for the tip.
The old cultural guard ironically always asserts itself as the underdog but they've had a stranglehold on media and academia for decades at least. But that's spot on about societal torture. The degree to which they've doubled down on the corpse of liberal values is a sight to behold, yet even more sickening is how many buy into it. We're definitely against the grain by being here. I wish we had more eminence but maybe its our lot to be under the radar and cultivate a like minded group as a bulwark to the suicidal hubris of liberalism.
The catch though, is this perpetual motion machine of western liberal capitalism probably needs its young college educated batteries to keep the spice flowing. If we end up the victors I don't know what we're going to do next with the mantle of global capitalism lol. I don't even really want it, so I guess china or whomever covets it will take it.
Lincoln Long
BBC has run Corbyn antisemitism story as its main political story for 14 days now. I haven't counted the days for Guardian, but its not much better. The pic is from London School of Economics study.
Yeah, there's no easy way out. But desperate situations require desperate action and I think that the first step would be establishing leadership that aren't just controlled opposition. I'm not a fan of antifa but if their violent tendencies had real direction they could be an useful asset. Currently they're just beating up fellow citizens but if someone convinced them to start taking out high profile targets like Bezos and Soros they could make a real impact.
It's wishful thinking of course since those guys generally are not actually out to make a difference, often even getting paid by the likes of Soros.
Adam Gray
Np Bro Yeah we need to reorganize and we need committees to look into transactions at least within the EU. There has been a lot of corruption going on Probably a good idea to get impartial committees to look into lobbyism everywhere just to get a sense of what is going no :)
Caleb Taylor
What do you mean by liberalism in this context?
Ian Howard
first step would be to stop using their institutions. create a business, don't take a job; put your money in a credit union. pay your taxes in a lower bracket as a business owner and donate to charities you create with other community members to foster the youth. basically build your own institutions and stop using their money. power follows wealth, and by playing their game you build their wealth.
that would be a great undertaking. Use their institutions against them. Keep them honest. corruption is what keeps their game going, but putting a check on it would be great rallying cry. You would have to know your shit really well though.
Jonathan Garcia
The brand of secular humanism/enlightenment philosophy that has been the dominant ideology since 1790. American and France took the idea wholesale.
Hunter Nelson
can't speak for finland, but american conservatives are just another brand of liberals.
Hunter King
I know, i archive most of the articles about Brexit and British elections which may affect it. I personally think the guardian has become hyperpartisan over the last 5-6 years. They lack neutrality especially when writing about Euroscepticism and populism, but most online newspapers do. I guess i expected more of them because I have been an avid reader of the guardian for a long time. But its quality has decline, I guess that former editor-in-chief of le monde, writing extremely opinionated OP-eds about volatile politics topics was the turning point for me.
Jordan Cooper
>You would have to know your shit really well though. If not I have to fall back to my memes, if all else fails the controversial hand of pepe is there to soothe me. :p
Nathan Sullivan
Trump is the new counter culture, and they are pissed about that since it can't be repackaged or reverse engineered
Cameron Ramirez
What is considered liberalism in contemporary America is so far removed from the source that it can't really be considered liberalism. Furthermore, both the leftists and rightists currently in charge of the political climate in America consider liberals to be milquetoast fencesitters who are in cahoots with their political enemies. Socialists, capitalists, communists, nazis, anarchists, and libertarians all like to say "Liberals get the bullet too".
Lucas Robinson
Not saying you are wrong when you said he should take it to lefty pol. However, from what I'm hearing you say, it sounds like you are in the phase of tossing everything to the curb because it's "biased."
Also I fail to understand your statement >shills, trolls, and sub-IQ WN.
How have you come to the conclusion that White Nationalism denotes a sub-IQ. Are you implying ethnocentrism or possibly ideology and intelligence have a genetic correlation. I would to hear your explanation for how you discovered this.
I would say that it's best to hear the persons rational behind something and not judge them based upon their ideology or innate preferences. Ethnic nationalism is the norm in countries not subverted by the Jew. Now, if you are unconvinced of their influence or its impact, I can give you some resources to look at. It's a slow and steady process but don't just throw it away as spinning a narrative and look at the evidence.
Leo Murphy
>countries not subverted by the Jew such as?
Jason Flores
>Trump is the new counter culture I think it's safe to say that :)
Joseph Perry
Democrats and republicans are iterations of liberalism, at least american liberalism. The list you mentioned of those in line to give liberals the bullet are all ideologues. They say such a thing within the sterility and safety of their imaginations and repeat these things to signal their value systems to their own groups. Liberals are their boogeymen. Just like American liberalism isn't 'true liberalism' only in the sterile sense removed from the course of history.
To me, where we are at is the terminus of liberal capitalism. There was no other way this could have been. Enlightenment era philosophy deems itself universal and therefore generalizable to all people. As the American empire grew it needed to include its new subjects and found a way to rationalize their subjugation not only to their new subjects but to themselves, the ruling class as well - capitalism and democracy go hand in hand, because everyone should be able to pursue life liberty and happiness. The whig interpretation of the end of history. Its an empire that masquerades as a liberal government, adopting liberalisms talking points and norms.
The career path to these upper echelons requires one to accept this ideology of liberty/egalite/fraternite with the sleight of hand that others must accept this as well and assimilate through liberal education to appreciate the same raw deal you and your family get. "we need workers to do the job no one else will do, we all have the same God given human rights"
Cameron Jenkins
I think my other posts highlight what I mean. It was a generalization to assert the fact that a coalition of obvious shills and trolls with hitler spam hardly demonstrates this place as a platform with robust and varied views. You really just don't get the full breadth of exposure on this one board.
Luke Campbell
Well minimally I would say Eastern Europe (Slavic and Balkan areas), I assume this is because they left in large numbers post World War II to Western Europe and the Anglosphere. There is also East Asia but from what I'm seeing in Japan and Korea there men are being emasculated, just look at their media. I don't know the cause of this but it is clearly occuring.
Then there is the developing world their society at the very least is unjewed even if they are controlled indirectly by them.
>you obviously dont support the classically marxist principle of class struggle, the working class against the wealthy. And most of you live in the cities and have a considerable amount of wealth. You demand that the poor and needy accept Your judgement in regards to immigration but refuse them to voice their criticism when they are affected by it. More a Marx user here. So the way I'd answer this is that the economy is a value chain. At the bottom you have base industries such as resource extraction (particularly oil and gas), agriculture, manufacturing, physical labor, etc. In more developed (urban) sectors you have finance, tech, govt. and so on that allocates and reinvests surplus value back into the economy. The more developed sectors need the base, but without the upper-tier sectors the base would also stagnate or decline. What has happened in recent decades is (IMO) a shift in power toward finance, which is global.
The populist vote is coming out of these base sectors. That's the Trump vote, and the populists waged a multi-year battle to realign the Republican Party around their interests. So someone like Wilbur Ross, he made his money in coal and steel. His economic program is protective trade barriers to support declining base industries combined with government subsidies to support other base industries such as agriculture given the loss of access to international markets.
The cosmopolitan or liberal vote is in the cities, because the types of industries align with a liberal outlook -- they are global. The base vote is conservative (socially) with patriarchal values (combined with not liking those "not from 'round here") because the industries are rooted in a particular place. A stereotypical purple-haired SJW working in a coffee shop is just as much of a worker as an oil field mechanic -- they are both proletarians -- but the former is servicing those with a liberal outlook. So their social values align.
Kayden Cooper
I would say that is true with everything though. In real life as everywhere else there are those that only want to play around, troll, and or don't care. Then there are people that want to have indepth conversations with others. These people are usually either knowledgable or willing to learn more about the subject.
I will admit that generally you have to go to different areas to find different concentrations of viewpoints. However, being of a certain political leaning doesn't mean that you are not knowledgable about opposing views.
I understand your point though. I still wouldn't call this an echo-chamber but it has an obvious leaning as does everywhere. I would also like to point out that you will never really get the full breadth of exposure no matter how far and wide you search. So it really depends on the individual. I therefore wouldn't rely on that argument too heavily. As you were saying earlier how perhaps lefty-pol wasn't the best idea and perhaps facebook was better, you seem to be searching for perfection which won't happen.
You're never going to find the perfect balance or representation. You've just got to be willing to learn and challenge your views if for nothing else but to strengthen them. You become familiar with the other viewpoints and that can help your message.
Jaxon Foster
>So their social values align. When did you last talk to an oil field worker
Easton Ward
Thanks for replying
I agree with most of it but from personal experience most of the people i have seen on the left have been very well off individuals, especially the feminist ones. In many countries, mine especially chosen before other people in most fields because of gender quotas, so now we have an overrepresentation of females in almost every sector and an underrepresentation of males. It is almost like a meme, everyone I know whose a female has work and almost every male I know between 20-30 are either unemployed or have to take even more education in order to be able to compete for the jobs available of which there is fewer and fewer.
The inevitable outcome of all identity politics is the faux incentive to keep these programs going, because it generates racism and misogyny. I don't know if this is the intention but it is almost certainly the end result.
Ayden Williams
>When did you last talk to an oil field worker I wasn't clear. The social values of the urban proletariat align with the urban bourgeoisie. Not the urban proletariat and the rural / exurban proletariat.
The economic interests of the urban proletariat and bourgeoisie do not align. This is why there's a bubbling conflict between the neoliberals and the Bernie / Corbyn types who are starting to see neolib idpol as a hock to capital (example being Hillary's "would universal healthcare solve racism?"). The base of the Bernie and Corbyn vote are young, socially liberal proletarians. What are Corbyn's positions? He's an economic nationalist in most regards but he's coming from the left.
If you look at AOC, what she's proposing are large-scale national projects funded by higher taxes particularly on the rich, which would fall heaviest on finance via capital gains taxes. This is why the neoliberals in the Democratic Party want to destroy her. They may play nice, or pretend that what she represents is chic or whatever, but they will try to co-opt and neutralize this. It's not much different from how the Paul Ryan types in the GOP have tried to trick right-wing nationalist populists over the years. Trump called them out on their game. In Britain, the neoliberals are much more nakedly opposed to the left nationalists and have largely given up on the play-nice game.
But ultimately, in terms of the relationship to production, the oil field worker who votes for Trump and the purple-haired SJW have the same economic interests. They are in the same class. But they align with different sectors of the ruling class as those rulers (the capitalists) compete for control of governments, which confers benefits to favored industries which those different sectors control. Largely, the "culture war" stuff that makes up our politics is bullshit that is fed to people to divide them from their real enemy -- capital. Culture war is a "spook" as leftypol would say.
Ryder Cook
Agree. It's a shame because once in a while Guardian publishes great articles about economy, especially cooperatives and stuff like that.
Daniel Reed
>I agree with most of it but from personal experience most of the people i have seen on the left have been very well off individuals, especially the feminist ones. Sure, I don't doubt they exist. But the most SJW people I know are not rich. Most of their income is spent on rent and they are working class. One of my friends has purple hair and works in a salon. Sure, she's not digging stuff out of the ground or getting her hands dirty, but Marxists look at material relationships and "working class" is defined as whether you subsist by working for other people in exchange for wages. If you own capital, and you make your money from investments, then you are bourgeois. (Investing in the stock market doesn't really count, unless you subsist off of investments, and then we're talking about millionaires here.)
Now, you're going to have millionaire liberals in the city who are very tolerant, pro-immigration, etc. etc. but if you decide you want to tax them to build public housing everyone then they're going to throw an enormous bitch fit.
I don't know much about Norway, but I live in Texas. We have a lot of oil workers and so on. (Hey, we have that in common! You can sometimes meet Norwegians here who work in the industry.) You can make some decent money doing that, more than working in a restaurant in the city, but ultimately the oil worker doesn't own his labor; he rents it out to someone who gives him back a portion of the value produced in the form of wages.
I have a lot of problems with Trump, but believe me, him using protective tariffs to support national industries is the least of my problems with him.
Jace Morris
I never understood this either. Antifa/lefties/shills also always larp about being anti establisment or fighting the establisment when they are inseperable from it. They are so against muh giant corporations while using an i phone and getting their "news" from all the same (((people)))
Zachary Lopez
>They say such a thing within the sterility and safety of their imaginations Within the sterility and safety of the Internet. The Internet hates liberals because they seem like party poopers in the gated fb groups subreddits and whatever of self-proclaimed ideologues
The key policy of liberalism, tolerance, is not something the democrats currently practice. They form unruly mobs of masked thugs to attack their supposed enemies. The republicans aren't better and while they are acting as reactionaries against democrat suppression, they don't practice liberalism either. The whole political spectrum of the United States has been polarized in an unprecedented manner over the last two decades and with the Internet allowing for information bubbles to form, there is no end in sight. I think liberalism is a much-needed cure to an ever-growing gap between various different ideologies. At least IRL people probably shouldn't start shoving each other over perceived ideological differences.
After all, we all agree on some key points of policy despite our ideologies.
Charles Jones
That's not a contradiction. It may come as a surprise, but antifa lefties do in fact own things that are produced by the economy. Strange but true. I have investments. I also drive a car. Sometimes I drive the car to go to protests. I also own clothes, which are also produced in a capitalist economy and which I paid for with wages.
Nicholas Wright
Absolutely, i used to subscribe to the guardian up until a few years ago
Jackson Clark
Danish social democrats seem relatively based though, do you happen to know what is their support like among the working class?
Dominic Moore
What do you mean by the culture war? I don't want to assume too much before I reply.
Justin Powell
so you shouldn't be suprised when we say you're at very least highly confused
Cameron Jackson
>when your ideology is mirrored, supported and even in some cases funded by political institutions like the EU, mainstream media and almost every prime minister in the world, hence globalism
This just isn't factually true.
And even if it was, surely you will agree that socialism itself (in just any random or fake form) is not the goal.
Lefties have many problems with the policies of the EU, mainstream media, and 'every prime minister in the world'. When you stop viewing the left as some weird amalgamation of everything you dislike about politics, it'll start making more sense.
And it's really ironic to go on a primarily right-wing website to ask for left views to be explained to you. Why don't you just go read the source material?
Brody Anderson
>I think liberalism is a much-needed cure to an ever-growing gap between various different ideologies thats what I mean, despite these contentions nothing is solved as we plod towards global capitalism. That's how you know we're in an empire that espouses tolerance and liberal values while practicing none of them. There is no vested interest in solving these problems because they're smoke and mirrors.
Dominic Campbell
Voters who align with Democrats or Republicans in the U.S. are in service to different elite sectors -- they are in service to capital. Before the recession, the question was how much of the surplus value created in the economy do you redistribute? The Democrats and Republicans were divided over this question. But since the recession, there is basically no question of redistribution at all; capital is holding all the cards.
So politics has become a means of people resorting to prejudices about "the other side." On the right, that's immigrants, blacks, LGBT, the third world, purple-haired SJWs -- basically stereotypes of alien outsiders. For the liberals, they resort to stereotypes about the "deplorables," this image of backwards people who are not "innovative" or "creative" and "open-minded" like the liberals. Either way the political debate now is over who will be excluded. The liberals have no interest in redistributing resources, they just want to limit access to it -- and only for people who understand machines and have the right "expertise." The populists want to exclude those who are not "rooted."
Jose Hernandez
For instance, most of the solutions to the points of contention require relinquishing capital or power. On some points (wage gap) people are nuts, there is no solution because the problem is ideologies run amok. In a healthy sphere of democratic debate these issues would be addressed. However the opposite happens and are charged for political gain: "I will solve these issues if you vote for me"
monopoly on power through distorting perception is necessary in rule by popular consent while also being in a position to further global imperialist desires. Do you really think someone in that position would acquiesce from the world stage to satisfy the idiotic plebs or use them further since they really have no power or recourse? All they have to do the next cycle is virtue signal and drag their opponent through the mud.
Lincoln Nelson
>the oil worker doesn't own his labor; he rents it out to someone who gives him back a portion of the value produced in the form of wages.
Sure, but if you own a small sawmill and try to produce things you may own your own labour and still not make ends meet, people are usually left to their own devices by a failing social system here, its been bad for a couple of years and i doubt its going to get better as the different states budgets are stretched paper-thin under the pressure of international economic commitments and increasing immigration.
In the wider scheme of things i guess it can be justified by saying there is always someone poorer, but if we use that rhetoric too often we undermine the working class on a global scale, which i believe is being done deliberately by politicians and international institutions in order to either do away with benefits altogether, eventually. It's a scary scenario.
My problem with people of a higher income is that the threshold in which they can sustain themselves are often higher than the less fortunate working class and those without employment. If we are talking about activism, this allows the activist to advocate for other groups because he or she can afford paying a bit extra in taxes whereas the less fortunate cannot. However this is never addressed and when it is addressed it is always in a condescending manner towards the poor. People are often called racists for opposing immigration, even though it is instrumental for them to do so because they cannot afford to pay more in taxes. That is where social justice begins to falter for me. It doesn't seem very just.
Josiah Price
>And even if it was, surely you will agree that socialism itself (in just any random or fake form) is not the goal. There is no reason for the stock market to exist. Getting rid of it is the #1 reason to support socialist policy. Well, we're probably better off not taking cues from anyone high up, but I think that it's still important not to act like an asshole towards fellow citizens. And that is liberal policy at it's most base level.
Julian James
(OP) >Why do you consider yourself a socialist when your ideology is mirrored, supported and even in some cases funded by political institutions like the EU, mainstream media and almost every prime minister in the world, hence globalism. You misunderstand. It's escalation. They don't support EU-style democracy that incorporates socialist policies. They support democratic SOCIALISM. Many of them are anarchocommunists. They want to burn every government on Earth to the ground so everyone can hold hands and dance. The EU included.
Jason Collins
Not confused. I also have private health insurance. Weird, yeah? But I don't have any other option. I still think it's a bad system based on private insurers acting as middlemen who rip people off and raise costs, and I would want a socialized system. Better to have a single payer (the government) who can always pay, so medical providers don't have to haggle with a thousand different private insurers, while also chasing down deadbeats who won't pay their medical bills and haggling down debts for pennies on the dollar.
