Universal Basic Income

I'd love to see a robot try and do a simple aftermarket radio install on any car ever made. Good f'ing luck.

well, the value of human labor sure isn't going to increase as time goes on. ai is getting better faster than you think. i guess all i'm trying to say is we should start thinking ahead and come up with something like ubi if we want to maintain high living standards for current populations.

going to back just discussing ubi, how would it affect the value of currency? i'm no economist, but i'm assuming it would decrease, especially in foreign markets. this is why i don't understand the push for ubi in western countries which do not have the production capabilities to be independent.

UBI will make Canada even more of third world magnet it is with it's existing social programs.

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Merits or faults aside, it is literally the most sought after idea, of people that want to be coddled pets given food their doghouse and water, instead of sapient beings.

Every time I've ever seen this topic discussed among leftists (who are by far, Far the main supporters of it) it always boils down to the same like four lines being repeated;

"people aren't meant to just work all their lives y'know"
and
"if you just give us shit for free, everything is going to be great. No, it's true for real, look at this link, gimme muh free gibs. It's uh, science. I want them. Gimme."
and
"this is the future, man. Gibs are the future of future gimme dat future."
and lastly
"if you gib us free gibs, just, look at all the gibs you wouldn't be gibbing us, if you gib us free gibs." (and there's you go along with it Righty, ploy)

Like, I wouldn't mind considering it if I didn't see just who, and the motivations of, those crying for it. Far as I'm concerned it's literally just a bunch of fuckin' losers wanting their 12k a year pet-wage, to lay on their assholes and spend their days being a smug useless artist or practice "muh social activism."

I don't see that as good for the society. These assholes should go do something people value enough to hand a dollar toward.

opinion on some of the arguments i made for ubi in and ?

Ever since I got a high paying job I just get enraged every time I see people talk about taking the money I work for

I used to be on disability though. I have an actual shit-myself in a wheelchair disease though. An I allowed? I used that money to build my own business and now I'm (relatively) successful.. Am I hypocrite?

Either way, I support disability, I support EI, but UBI is economy-destroying nonsense

The value of human labor is increasing in the the US right now. There is a massive labor shortage for skilled labor in construction and trade jobs. This is in spite of the increase in automation in every field imaginable.

The only time anything like ubi would be useful would be in a post scarcity society. And if we even reach that magical point who could say if it would even be necessary. All production by that point may be decentralized and in each individuals control making a ubi pointless.

I can't wait to sit around being paid to shitpost.

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how do you all feel about UBI as it has been done is Alaska?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

i agree with you in the thinking that ubi is unnecessary and will most likely be harmful on both societal and economic levels. if you aren't willing to put into a society, why should you benefit from it (assuming we haven't reached the "ubiquitous automation" or "post-scarcity" situations)?

out of curiosity, do you have any sources for the increasing value of labor?

don't know how it affects the alaskan economy, but i'd imagine it's a pretty big nigger enabler, especially in alaska

OP your cartoon is retarded.
UBI is shit wages. shit.

No one wants UBI revenue they just don't wanna be hobos. People want stuff though. And you can't buy cool stuff on UBI.

Why is there no one in the line to the left? Like really? No one? At all? That's dumb. I'd be in the line on the left. I love my awesome job and income.

>what happens to all the generous social programs you guys already have?
Hopefully after the libs implement this the torries come and cut every other social spending they can get away with so that in addition to ubi the economy will flourish (though there is the concern that ubi and neetdom with fuse to create incentivized workers)

>how it work?
dude taxes lmao

>how much
turns out to be a top-up, so if you are making less than a certain amount the gov pays the rest for you (pretty sweet imo). About 1200$/mo or 14400$/yr. So in hongcouver you should be compensated about 950$ for a 250$/week salary.

I only have my opinion and experience as a field service tech. I travel the country doing low voltage electrical work for large corporations. Everywhere I go and everyone I talk to in all sorts of different work fields say the same thing, everyone is short on skilled labor.

As a sort of disclaimer/admittance I would also put forth that I believe the value of human labor is dwindling in the low skill service sector jobs mostly do to automation.

this.
Creating AI advanced enough is only half the battle. To substitute all human labor you need to essentially create an an analogue human, general purpose robot to be mass produced. This would be such a costly endeavor it's hard to imagine simply monetary profit being the only goal. If anything, such a transition would signal the end of the human era and the dawn of the post-singularity age. We need to seriously ask ourselves if industry without humanity is a path we want to trek.

As for UBI in general, you create a vicious cycle.

UBI funded through taxes will effectively disincentivize people from working. This creates an economy where labor is now hyper-expensive (as no one is entering the job market) while simultaneously forcing further automation to compensate.
Supplies will become more scarce due to lack of labor creating them, and prices for basic goods increase.
Government increases taxes to compensate with more UBI.
More people fall out of the job market.
Where does government get its taxes from now? Who will pay to keep the vicious cycle going? Maybe government decides to print money to compensate? Hyper-inflation. Same problem. Eventually it all collapses. Thanks UBI

actually the manitoba experiment found nothing but positive results. High education was persued more, men would work a couple less hours, but not much, wives could actually function as moms for fuckin once, etc. Best part about this is that UBI means we can cut the other social programs and thus reduce overhead SIGNIFIGANTLY. I have some concerns, such as whether this may give the gov too much power over the citizen, but for the moment it seems like a grand idea.

i'm with you there. My hope is that when the pendulum swings back after this bill is enacted, then we can cut income tax and start pushing for more supply-side economics. The lazy neets (very few) and just barely get by, while those who are looking to make something of themselves can get moola without having to worry about gas/electricity/water bills or government [spoiler] theft [/spoiler] taxation.

Ubiquitous atuomation will never exist but i don't think we need that excuse to make UBI work. MOST jobs will be replaced, SOME jobs will be human and machine working together (life factories now) and A FEW jobs will remain wholly human (if you don't count computers and automated assistants). There's no such thing as an only-human or only-machine job.

>14400$/yr x 36.3 million = 522,720,000,000$/yr

well, it'll be an interesting experiment to observe from a distance i guess. do the leaf clergy have any proof of concepts or bills i can read?
that's neat. thanks for discussing

how about we tax social activism and artistry :^) ?

i've heard about that experiment before. but reading here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome , it says the experiment was conducted in the 70s. canada was almost entirely white, now you guys are US-tier. doesn't it make you worried that around half the population (non-whites) is going to shaft the whites?

whats ligma???

in addition, those were different times not only demographically, but also socially and economically. it seems a bit rash to make this whole ubi thing official in canada without at least conducting more studies.

Money looses it's value if people no longer have to exchange anything for it.

Inflation quickly sets in to devalue the $, people dependant on UBI now struggle to make ends meet. Savers loosed value on their hard earned savings. (((Bankers))) and (((Globalists))) benefit.

I appreciate the effort but I really put no faith at all in social "experiments" or the like. Cutting other social programs are a good idea but UBI will make us dependent forever and ever.

ligma fucking balls.

Ligma balls

Ontario is nigger-tier but British Columbia is pretty ching chong so i'm guessing depending on the ethnic makeup we will either have gib-monkeys fucking shit up and bringing us closer to the breaking point of the white race (the point we get our ethnostate) or they will be a tiny hassle and we won't have to worry about obongo being a problem. I am worried but hopeful for the future. Lets see how it goes, and if shit gets fucked, you can call me yankee jim.

since its a top-up the approximate price is actually half that. Still a lot though, which is probably why president pimp is legalizing drugs, casinos, and so on to make up for losses through muh taxes.

>UBI gets implemented
>inflation goes up
>value of currency goes down
>UBI needs to be increased to keep citizens above poverty line
>inflation goes up
>value of currency goes down

i think you get the point

lmfao

why ever work again?

And who ever is going to work to provide you with the goods and services you need?

Inflation is going up regardless, Einstein. Western democracies try to peg inflation at 2-4% per year.

UBI

a gay meme that faggots use

>Finland does UBI trials
>It predictably fails, all collected data shows that it's unsestainable and punishes work
>American democrats screech that it was not UBI and it did not really fail

Is UBI the new communism meme?

UBI would be poverty-level at best. You'd basically be able to afford the absolute shittiest apartment possible and have to eat nothing but ramen and rice and beans. Getting a job would allow you to make income on top of that so you could live a more middle-class lifestyle.

and that's a bad thing
with UBI it would go up much much more

i'm sure he meant that the rate of inflation would increase.

on the note of inflation, i have an unrelated question: is the rapid increase in inflation the result of fiat currency (at least in the US)?

living off of benefits makes you feel like a parasite
t. disability recipient

and quantitative easing, and borrowing practices, and...

if you're white, yes. i am convinced non-whites don't feel the same. just look at welfare data in the US

fiat currency has something to do with it, but fractional reserve banking is much much worse, since it necessitates printing money on a regular basis

you're probably right in general but I think it has to do more with IQ. i've never seen a happy asian on benefits. i think that those with a high IQ understand that society requires people to work hard and put in effort to work well and so they want to contribute as much to that as possible. so in general you get hard working whites and asians and lazy spics and niggers

>turns out to be a top-up, so if you are making less than a certain amount the gov pays the rest for you
that's called negative income tax

>By the time we have automation
we already do

The only way I could even see negative income tax working is if you used it to replace social security and medicare

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i'm not saying that they suck because they're brown or have other superficial differences though, different populations (races) have different genes (iq). heritability of iq is around .75

my point is using the term "non-white" is accurate since most populations do not exceed whites in genetic-iq potential.

i wasn't disagreeing with you, just adding onto what you said

Some kike who started a taco making company in the 80's wants to pay you $8 an hour- the outcome of this dispute has zero effect on the rest of the US economy, the owner is already so rich it would take them 10 lifetimes to spend the wealth, the people who work the hardest on the bottom cant support themselves, and half the country is doing this as a job.
>hmmmmmm I just dont know if we can afford to increase the wages

so that instead of just getting by i can make all the bitches wet when they see my Lamborghini?

How much money though? That's the big question. I say barely enough for the shittiest food, basic healthcare, and a cramped room in the slums. That'll make sure anyone who can work will work.

which should happen if the pendulum lets the torries into power after the bill is passed.

>Is UBI the new communism meme?
hopefully not

We already do you dumb nigger and I just witnessed 800 niggers who tighten bolts for food on there table leaving through turnstiles.

>jimmy johns

There's nothing left-wing about the idea and it's tiring to see brainlets who have no idea what it really is talk about the concept. The only reason you'd oppose the universal basic income is if you're a NEET yourself.

Where does the money come from? Money is a representation of value. You are going to create value for people who have no value like retards?

fingers crossed we ditch minimum income and try out japans model of progressive income (worker gets payed in proportion to what owner gets payed, so higher-income businesses have higher-income for workers).

dude, taxes, lmao

regardless, i still wouldn't asians of any kind voting. they're still all leftists. look at some of the "if only _ group voted in the 2016 election" pictures. asians are almost completely blue.

i think the first five or so minutes of this video might interest you: youtube.com/watch?v=ffv8V11lReU

It's afraid.jpeg

Goodluck with that if you think people will be ok with losing there social security and medicare

There gonna say I paid more money into it now your taking away my retirement money
Im old/sick if I don't have Medicare im going to have so much medical debt

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

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Privatize SS, fixed in a generation

What does it say?

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In that case let me make a free market argument for it:

Basic income would enable the hand of the market, allowing the best product (balanced between cost and quality) to compete with the cheapest, which is currently sold en masse to people that can't afford anything more.

However when everyone has a little money in their pocket, companies couldn't afford to just be shit and get away with it, good will will become far more important for companies since people can and will take their money elsewhere. It'd also allow for lower income people who otherwise wouldn't be able to do so to create enterprise, thus adding competition to the market.

It'd fucking smother corporate cronyism, because suddenly being cheap and fucking people in the ass all day every day will get your company killed again as it should be.

The reasoning behind the idea is great (companies literally have to compete with the State and they can't artificially redesign the market conditions because if they pay shit nobody will want to work for them, because they'll alredy have their basic needs taken care of, so they'll need to offer an improvement in their lifestyle by paying them enough to have a better life and afford nicer things) but, like most socialist ideas, they fail in the very basis: the people.

UBI can work in an scenario with high trust, high education, good moral values and nowhere else. It's a measure to avoid private interests' abuse, not to lift up the poor.

Surprisingly intelligent post.

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I'm always shocked at how many people support this idea. Absolving people's personal responsibility to contribute to society in order to earn a living is the surest way to create weak, unindustrious and entitled citizens. I oppose the idea simply on the principle. My right to live, survive and thrive on this earth my own responsibility and no one else's. If the economy is slow then that means growing my own food, or finding a way to barter my skills for food. Under no circumstances will I delegate my own survival to another entity, especially a government. I believe this is the mindset people need to have if we want stronger families, individuals and a stronger society.

Trudeau is married, retard.

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