Name a flaw Jow Forums

if healthcare is a right, then you are entitled to the labor of health care professionals by law
that is slavery

>How come it doesn't happen in other industrialized nations
except it does. wait times in canada and the uk are very high because too many people make use of the health care system

The average American has no idea how inflated his healthcare cost is compared to other countries with comparable quality of care, let alone the reason why. We'll whine about circumcision until it's pointed out that the problem is caused by for-profit hospitals who do it automatically because they can just send the insurance company the bill. Then our eyes will glaze over and we'll mutter "muh freedom, muh niggers" then go home and watch commercials for antidepressants on talmudvision

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>that is slavery
It's a really dumb mental gymnastics. People are not forced to be nurses and be in the health service.

Same logic with other services. Firetrucks, police. A taxpaying citizen is entitled to those things. If my apartment catch on fire, I expect fireman to show up and douse the fire, otherwise other people would also catch on fire.

None of that is slavery. The government have job openings and people who want to do it can apply for the position. How can a yuropoor be so dumb

>A taxpaying citizen is entitled to those things
show me where in law it states that citizens have a right to firefighters or police officers
you need to learn what the word "right" means before you use it

If the demand skyrockets and there are not enough doctors you will have to do one of two things. Increase their pay drastically and or draft them. FYI. we already have doctor shortages.

You're just playing dumb semantics. Nobody is forced to be nurses in Canada. It's not slavery

>if
>if
>if
How come Swedecucks could do it, but MUHrica cannot do so

>You're just playing dumb semantics
you dumb nigger, if you're going to call something a right in political context, at least know what the fuck you're talking about, jesus christ
this is not semantics at all, this is a very serious misunderstanding on your part

It would be fucking expensive, but we should do it. Our current model has caused costs to spiral out of control, and we're being jew'd to hell and back by big pharma, the insurance companies, and the hospitals.

Yeah, it sucks that we'll have to pay for niggers but it will help all of us.

It is not semantics. If the government controls your health care then they control you. If the negative effects of a behavior cost to much in health care then the government will want to control your behavior.

> Russia has it

And it stinks. If you want to get actual medical help here you've got to go to private clinics and pay for that. Otherwise you'll be lucky to even get a proper diagnosis after years of going to ((free)) doctors and having to plan each appointment from several days to several weeks beforehand.

Although, maybe free medicine is different in first world countries.

> People will over use the system

And also that. There are lines of babushkas making you wait for hours before you see the doctor.

Leaf healthcare sucks and is abused resulting in too many patients and not enough doctors and very long waits for anything.

>How come Swedecucks could do it
sweden has a problem with wait times and access to doctors, actually
you have no idea what you're talking about

>>
>maybe free medicine is different in first world countries

Or maybe not

>If the government controls your health care then they control you
Who are the guberment? They're your fellow countrymen. Government and social workers are just as good of people as any other blue collar jobs. Who runs the post office? Government. Who regulate the air and river so it's not polluted? Government. Who regulate the national parks so people can go hike, fish, hunt and climb? Government. Government already regulates building codes, build roads, bridges, fixes street signs, etc.

Mexico has it too, and it sucks. And it's not even free, you have to pay to the pool for a few years before you're elegible for shit tier medicAIDS.

If you can't, you're dead, just as simple. These first world commies, like Marx, are just spewing bullshit while their handlers profit from the chaos they sow.

Thank you for making sense.

We already pay for the elderlies health care in our country. Medicare is the most popular social programs beloved by right wing gun nuts to hippie granola cat grannies.

>Government and social workers are just as good of people as any other blue collar jobs
this has to be a troll thread

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>m-muh waitimes
Better than being dead if you don't have health insurance. Also nobody is saying you cannot get private insurance. Canada and Australia allow for private insurance as a supplement to your government health care so that if you want to pay for it you can get better care.

Overall, socialized health care reduces cost for everyone, because collective bargaining rights for drug prices and treatments. Just like a bottle of 100 aspirins is cheaper per pill than a packet of 8. In the US people got brainwashed by propaganda insurance companies, health care middleman, and for profit hospitals who will get their profit margin reduced with socialized health care

>you need to learn what the word "right" means before you use it

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of LIFE, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

Right of life = right to healthcare

>this has to be a troll thread

I'm sorry that the Netherland is FLAT, don't have any national parks and your streets are overrun by kebab vendors.

Who maintain those hiking trails? Who regulate fishing and hunting permit to prevent overfishing? What prevented for profit multinational companies from drilling in the Arctic and ruin the wildlife? It's the National Park baby. These people are as much as salt of the earth as any other people

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Will cost $32 trillion over a decade.

>leaf has it
No we don't or not the way you burgers think at least

Healthcare systems are provincial. There is no "Canadian healthcare system" there are 10 healthcare systems (one for each province) and if you use the healthcare system outside your province you basically end up having to pay

I think US healthcare could only work if the states ran it rather than the federal government

Ontario is the only place with a significant nigger population

Unsurprisingly they have the worst healthcare system out of all provinces

The reason why is because we pay for the medical advancements for the world.

>I think US healthcare could only work if the states ran it rather than the federal government
Except a surgery in America costs like 50k. What happens if some American visiting another state ruptures their appendix?

Because America subsidizes literally all the healthcare research development in the west.

It happens in Ontario. People die waiting for surgery and stuff

Considering how shit the US federal government is I think your healthcare would end up more like Ontario than something efficient like BC or Alberta health care

>Will cost $32 trillion over a decade.

As if it would cost 0 otherwise?
>Mercatus is projecting a $32 trillion increase in federal spending, above current projected government expenditures, from 2022 to 2031. In terms of overall health care spending in the United States over the same period, however, they are actually projecting a slight reduction.There is the rub. The federal government is going to spend a lot more money on health care, but the country is going to spend about the same. “Lower spending is driven by lower provider payment rates, drug savings, and administrative cost savings,” Yevgeniy Feyman at the right-leaning Manhattan Institute told me. “It’s not clear to what extent those savings are politically feasible, and socially beneficial.” (One concern is whether cuts to prescription drug spending would discourage medical innovation. It’s simply hard to know — Mercatus projects a $61 billion drop in drug spending in one year, but there would still be hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually on medications.)

It would cost the feds 32 trillion or whatever over 10 years, but overall out of pocket health care spending would be lower. That means (You) and your grandpa would spend less on healthcare. Say your utility bill is 100 bucks a month. A government program made it so that it's 80 bucks a month, i.e CHEAPER You can go
REEEEEE this program cost $9600 over the next 10 years or you can actually thank the government for saving you $2400 in money you would have spent otherwise

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In practice, healthcare is FREE in the U.S. if you can't pay for it.

Hospitals can't turn you away for medical care. When they ask for an address, tell them you are homeless, broke, and have no address. They won't even fucking bother.

>400 million people
> most don’t pay taxes
> those who do pay taxes don’t want to pay for those who don’t
> compare the inimitable superiority of American medicinal r&d to yurop and yuropooreans say apples to oranges

How effective is the American government at running socialized healthcare already? Surely we can look at the VA for some great examples...

There is no insurance you can buy that has a zero deductible, because insurance companies know that anything that is 'free' has unlimited demand.
Now Canada is in real trouble with our health care system. There is unlimited demand, and the only cost saving measure available is to restrict access to care. So hospitals are given a budget- they can only do so many hip replacements, so many cataract (phaeco) etc. They restrict access to care to cut cost- its the only button they have, because all care is free.
I'm a surgeon, and I needed a procedure done right away for my convenience so as to not fuck up my own office schedule and even with my insider knowledge, I couldn't get it done. I went to the US for the surgery. I paid $12k for my surgery, with about 6k going to the surgeon. Here the surgeon would get about $250 for the same procedure. So there are real problems with anything govt run. Think DMV, only much bigger, and much, much worse.

71% popularity for Republican
83% popularity for Democrat

It's called MEDICARE for ALL, not VA service for all. See >
Overall, socialized health care reduces cost for everyone, because collective bargaining rights for drug prices and treatments. Just like a bottle of 100 aspirins is cheaper per pill than a packet of 8. In the US people got brainwashed by propaganda insurance companies, health care middleman, and for profit hospitals who will get their profit margin reduced with socialized health care

The VA doesn't have collective bargaining for drug prices. They're at the mercy of the Jews who run the for profit health insurance providers, hospitals, and drug companies. Medicare for all will have collective bargaining for drug prices. So rather than buying ibuprofen at $8 per packet of 8, or $15 per 25 pill bottle, we buy 100000000000 pills at $0.20 as an example and then distribute it for everyone.

Because a right to healthcare necessitates a right to someone else’s labor which is slavery. Jesus fucking Christ debating you people is like debating terrible programmers who want to hardcore everything and can’t think in terms of principled, big-picture, long-term consequences

Whoops forgot pic

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I live in an area without established fire protection (except for forest fire service) and I really don't consider the cops a "service" more a boot of government tyranny we all are forced to pay for

Because with the current government policy as it stands right now, non-citizens of the 3rd world who come here don't pay into it but reap the benefits when it's intended for the actual Amercians who do pay into it

nope nope nope
drug prices are due primarily to regulation protection rackets and also unlimited liability

>hip replacements, so many cataract (phaeco) etc
These are memes that kept brought up by cuckservatives, because those two are ELECTIVES. Hip replacements can wait.

If you need a life saving treatment, they're gonna do the procedure right away. Literally better than dying in your bedroom, or in the emergency room at massive cost for local taxpayers like most poor Americans without healthcare

>canada
>allow private insurance

Depends on what province you're in some don't

I know a ton of people who had to go to the US to get treatment for various diseases. As far as innovation in the industry goes he is exactly right. Most new treatments and technology come from the US.

We can't even run the healthcare programs we have in an effective manner. Why would dumping another trillion make it better?

At the best, it would be Brazil-tier.

yes you are sort of correct, but that is not how it works IRL. What most countries do is mandate what people can make, and limit their hours. Physicians still bill fee for service, but all surgeons get paid the same amount, ie it doesn't matter if you are s shitty surgeon, you get paid the same as a good one, and you are not rewarded for better performance, Because there are line ups for everything, you always have patients desperate for the procedures, sometimes waiting for months and months in pain to get their operation.

You get travel medical insurance the same way we do here if visiting other provinces for a long period or if visiting the US

Provinces also can on a case by case basis agree to pay the cost for healthcare of one of their residents in another province for expensive procedures. Every province has an agreement with eachother now for this

But really it's not like people regularly go between provinces it's usually a once a year thing maybe longer. There's no reason to leave really everything we need is within our province if we leave it's going to be a vacation type thing

Would you rather have our healthcare?

Paying for up to 2000 bucks out of pocket for a healthcare that doesn't even provide dental and eyecare? Or relying on your employment, which means you have less freedom to talk back to your boss, get fired or switch jobs because your whole family rely on the healthcare provided by your corporate overlords? At every point we got jewed left and right. Hospitals overcharging insurance because they don't care and need to make profit. Insurance overcharging healthy people because they need to cover for the less healthy, plus a healthy profit on top. Doctors overcharging and overprescribing for drugs you don't need.

It's nice that leafs can drive south and get better health care if necessary for extraordinary circumstances and treatment. We cannot drive north and get very basic healthcare for basic needs like when someone break a leg or got hit by a car.

Fuck you're retarded. Ontario has the best hospitals in Canada especially in Toronto where they do ground breaking research. Maritimes probably has the worst seeing as how they keep sending their patients here

>We can't even run the healthcare programs we have in an effective manner
Government healthcare polls favorably across party line. They must be satisfied with the current Medicare program for the elderly

>We can't even run the healthcare programs we have in an effective manner.
Yet we have a defense budget more than the next 5 countries on the planet combined to bomb brown people at Neytanyahu's and Saudi Arabia's command

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>-Britbong has it
-Yuropoor has it
-Leaf has it
-Aussies has it
-Israel has it
>because X has it,we need it too
Thats a fallacy

What exactly are you complaining about?

Hospital care is free if you can't pay for it. Literally, you can be a Mexican illegal with a gunshot wound, get first class treatment, and pay absolutely nothing.

Besides, 99% of the shit people come into the doctor's office / hospital for are due to shitty diet and lifestyle.

its socialism

>Thats a fallacy
No it's not. The US has higher per capita income and GDP than Canada, and most yuropoor country except Litchenstein, Monaco and Luxemborg.

If those countries can afford a satisfying socialized health care program we can too.

>It's nice that leafs can drive south and get better health care if necessary for extraordinary circumstances and treatment. We cannot drive north and get very basic healthcare for basic needs like when someone break a leg or got hit by a car.

You can drive south to Mexico for cheaper, nearly as good healthcare as the US, if you're so inclined.

>Paying for up to 2000 bucks out of pocket for a healthcare that doesn't even provide dental and eyecare?

If you're not making much money, ACA subsidies kick in and cover most of the premium. Yeah, there's still a deductible, because you've got to have SOME fucking skin in the game.

the 10th amendment exists

>If those countries can afford a satisfying socialized health care program we can too.

It's socialized in the U.S. through medicare, medicaid, ACA subsidies, and if that isn't enough, just go to the hospital and decline to give them accurate personal information.

>Hospital care is free if you can't pay for it. Literally, you can be a Mexican illegal with a gunshot wound, get first class treatment, and pay absolutely nothing
Only if you have absolutely nothing.

A middle class person with me, if on the day I got fired and lost my employment health insurance got shot, straddled into emergency room can end up with thousands of dollars worth of bills.

If you need continuous treatment like chemo, and don't have health insurance the hospital gonna give you a bill worth everything you have and some more

Stop with the meme flag. Are you even Americans?

>ACA subsidies
Oh yeah, you're MANDATED to buy health insurance from a for profit company. Drinking water is good, but the government should strive to provide drinking tap water which is free for everyone. ACA is akin to the government forcing you to buy bottled water, but look at the marketplace, here are all the for profit brands of bottled water you can, and mandated to buy! Fuck ACA, Obama is a piece of shit for profit healthcare industry puppet

The fact that europoor has it should tell us its a terrible idea. Fact is that my coverage costs me about 100/month, and is pretty good. Fuck everyone else.

Is that an employment benefit? What happen if one day you talk back to your boss and get fired?

Why can't you act professional in the workplace?

>A middle class person with me, if on the day I got fired and lost my employment health insurance got shot, straddled into emergency room can end up with thousands of dollars worth of bills.

If you got fired, you'd either go on medicaid (usually less than $16k income for a single person, but it depends on the state) where you basically pay nothing. If your income is higher than $16k but still low, you go on ACA with subsidies, and pay up to your deductible.

I think the economic arguments etc are probably sound. However here is what terrifies me about universal healthcare.

We all know that because of affirmative action, shit-tier minorities are allowed to practice medicine despite having significantly lower IQ and aptitude than whites. Consequently, if you don't have a choice of doctor, you, or God forbid, your children might have to be treated by Dr. Quantavious, M.D. Inevitably Dr. Obama's Son will I dunno, accidentally amputate your arm, or molest your daughter while she's under anaesthesia, and you won't even have malpractice recourse because then you'd be rayciss tryina keep down an oppressed heartwarming Doctor Of Color who makes $400k/year.

Even if you do get to choose, everyone with half a brain will want to be treated by Dr. Alan Wyatt Mann, so waitlists will explode in size and you'll have to wait 6 months to be treated for a gunshot wound to the head.

So yeah, universal healthcare can work as long as everyone involved is white. Though as another user pointed out, even with an all-white national medical force the system costs would probably spiral out of control trying to deal with the spic-nig cycle.

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>Oh yeah, you're MANDATED to buy health insurance from a for profit company. Drinking water is good, but the government should strive to provide drinking tap water which is free for everyone. ACA is akin to the government forcing you to buy bottled water, but look at the marketplace, here are all the for profit brands of bottled water you can, and mandated to buy! Fuck ACA, Obama is a piece of shit for profit healthcare industry puppet

Drinking water is a bad example, because nowhere in the U.S. is it "free". You either have to pay to drill a well, then pay property taxes, or connect to a city water system and pay regular bills.

I don't like the fact that ACA is mandated, either, but your complaint is that healthcare isn't "socialized" in the U.S. It most certainly is for those who cannot afford it.

>nigger nigger nigger XDDDDD
*snap*

Also, for what it's worth, I think healthcare should be more or less unregulated. Much like veterinarians in the U.S. or healthcare in Mexico. It would allow for much cheaper options and more competition.

What happen if your job is outsourced to Mexico? Or replaced by AI/robot? Or your boss simply was not satisfied with your performance? What happen if one day you get into car accident and cannot do the same work you do anymore, either from physical disability or brain impairment, whatever it is.

Your company overpay for your health insurance so that the insurance company make profit. That is less money in your pocket from salary that has to be accounted for. Hospital and doctors also overcharges the insurance company for profit. Drug companies overcharges hospitals also for profit. We're getting Jew'd at every turn by this for profit healthcare industry

Wait times are a serious issue here too.

i don't want to spend more money on services i don't use
when i have to use these services, i'd rather be able to see a doctor in the same day, rather than wait a few days.

I figure he exact numbers, there’s a graph I know one of you fags has that shows the difference in taxes taken vs taxes paid in the US by race. This is a true point. Only half the income earners in this country pay taxes. Only about a third of us pay more in taxes then we take. If you create a system where anyone can walk into a hospital at anytime, get any service no questions asked, no copay, we’re fucked. Free shit doesn’t work when half you nation is already supporting the other half.

>a for profit industry that acted literally on someone's lifelihood should be less regulated
Yeah no. You're drinking too much magic hand of freemarket koolaid. It is profitable to insure healthy people and not profitable to insure poor people. It is profitable to prescribe people drugs they don't need and it is not profitable to just tell your patient to man up, exercise and eat a better diet.

Are people forced into slavery in healthcare or are they not? I've never heard of people being forced to become doctors or treated as property, and that is the definition of slavery.

>Canada has black people too.
That's adorable.

>we have this thread multiple times a day and every single time the arguments of the previous threads are completely ignored
^^^

Jow Forums are the best goyim. That's why the jew loves this board the best.

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Sounds like something Alex Jones would say.

This is another big point. American capitalism enables European socialism. It’s easy to give away free shit when America is footing a large part of the bill, plus paying for your defense, defending your trade routes, trading with you at a trillion dollar deficit, and you also tax your citizens half to death. And Those countries still suffering economically.

This leads to debt for those people and higher costs for everyone.

>most don’t pay taxes

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>If you got fired, you'd either go on medicaid (usually less than $16k income for a single person, but it depends on the state) where you basically pay nothing. If your income is higher than $16k but still low, you go on ACA with subsidies, and pay up to your deductible.

I'm talking specifically about the day I got fired. You need to sign onto those government program. If luck catches me in a way that I had no health insurance and is not covered, I'm fuck. The for profit hospital gonna straddle me with a bill, and if I don't have enough savings I would have to declare bankruptcy and ruin my credit score.

Again, there's no reason in defending the for profit healthcare system in the US. We're getting nickel and dimed by middleman at every single turn. Even with employment benefits, your salary could've been higher if the place you work for is not mandated to give you a for profit health insurance

People go to Canada and the UK too.

>Besides, 99% of the shit people come into the doctor's office / hospital for are due to shitty diet and lifestyle.
Wait 30 years and I guarantee you won't be saying the same thing.

>you have to sign up

Actually, you don't. That's why there is a penalty for not signing up for health insurance now. You can show up to the hospital uninsured, and get covered by Medicaid or ACA on the spot. The penalty is to dissuade people from doing that.

But sure, the safest thing is to just sign up for Medicaid the first day you're unemployed. Big fucking deal.

>because nowhere in the U.S. is it "free".
Tapwater in public places are free.

>a bunch of small countries have it, it would work for us too, just make a new tax and like stop spending so much on the ebil military dude weed lmao

>This leads to debt for those people and higher costs for everyone.

Same thing happens under purely socialized medicine, of course.

Cringe

>brown
>people
Pick one

I'm not saying hospitals I'm saying healthcare system you dumb ontariofaggot

Sure you might do good research etc but the people in Ontario are the ones dying waiting for surgeries

>get covered by ACA on the spot
No it doesn't work that way you moron.

ACA is just marketplace pool of risks. If you're not paying for insurance and got hit by a car, Aetna or Blue Cross is not gonna front your bill that cost multiple times the amount of their monthly premium. Again if luck catches people when they had no health insurance, or could not afford one, they're fucked.

Even for people who have health insurance, we're paying way more for way less result because of the for profit system. Private insurance don't have collective bargaining for drug prices, etc.