Calm Religion Talk

You know what's frustrating? So often, when I've had these discussions with atheists, they're only responding to a very simplified version of my beliefs without trying to learn what I actually think. This even goes for real life friends of mine who are atheists. For some reason, they often take things way more literally than even most of the religious people I know. The discussion always shuts down because they won't allow for any nuance. It's always about hard distinctions one way or another. Sure I take some things in the Bible metaphorically, but there are some things I don't. Why is this the area where the communication always breaks down?

Hmmm, alright.

because the the thing that made you will send you to hell otherwise you dont have any power here. any more than an ant has power over you

many atheists believe that people should take all of the Bible literally, and then quit the religion because of how "silly and obviously false" it all is, Now, I'm not saying that, but there are many atheist friends I know who are hardcore

same reason you believe in a god. Different brainwiring

>why should I be tortured forever?
Because you chose to by rejecting the free gift of salvation
Also eating the wrong food is not a sin

Agreed. This is why i like christianity because it opposes islam, and literally the only reason we have the west

Very odd, why do some worship a being who will torture them forever? Do they do it out of fear?

Excellent post my friend. I don’t think it’s likely there’s a god myself. But who knows.

This is going to be controversial to most people on here. But I really think almost no one on Jow Forums is actually RELIGIOUS, in the sense that you believe in god or believe in whats in the bible. Most people on Jow Forums value Christianity, not because they believe in it, but because they believe it was/is a significant part of Western civilization and that it might be a good moral value system. But in terms of actually believing in Christianity, I would say hardly anyone on here actually does, which is what makes it feel kind of disingenuous to me. Why not just say "I'm not really religious, I don't really believe in god, but I still think Christianity is a good system of values and we need to celebrate it as a defining aspect of the West". Instead, they act like they actually believe it, which just comes across as kind of stupid.

well yes the thing that demands you do certain things or you will be eternally tortured has absolute power over you.

Inb4 the psycho pol Christians spaz out.

This verse seems to imply that eating the wrong food will send me to hell

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Why would anyone worship such a cruel being then? Besides, he's omnipotent so he knows that a majority of the human race is going to hell, why create hell in the first place? Or give us free will?

Why do you care about religion? You’re an atheist.

Atheists aren't always in the wrong for doing that though. Much of religion's blatant scientific inaccuracies are unacceptable to those of a very rational mind. Existence of God in my view is irrelevant and improbable, but religion is vital to society. The vast majority of people rarely contemplate the deeper questions of life and aren't always intelligent or rational. Religion serves as a tool to encourage good behavior among the majority of society while often adding mysticism and ritual to keep people interested. Which religion is best for society should be the topic for debate.

Because I'd love to hear the beliefs of others different from me

I have to disagree Id say most of Jow Forums is some form or another of christian if only on the the idea of values

god is objectively real, you unfuckable incels

Atheism is lack of belief, though.
Only religious people refers to atheism as a belief.

Religion is a useful tool to control people, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can accomplish great and evil things. It's a good way to promote good morals, but it never really works that well and goes against my personal beliefs. There has to be a better way.

>Or give us free will?

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Can you prove it please? I'd love proof!

This is what I think, even if I'm not a Christian. My country has a very strong Catholic background and I appreciate it as an important part of our history that has shaped us as we are today. Lefties are trying to destroy that legacy with degeneracy now.

well it wasnt god who gave us free will persay that was the devil when he fed eve the apple. that doesnt mean though that god isnt omnipotent his definitions of right and wrong are rooted purely in whether or not it pleases him. hes very narcissistic like that

I know, but I'd still love to learn another's way of thought

10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 10&version=KJV

Dietary laws keep social cohesion and on many cases prevented against infection in ancient times from unhygenic meats like pork. Take it with a grain of salt user, it's irrelevant now and Christians and most Jews don't follow dietary laws anymore.

Why didn't atheism conquer the planet? Why would all of us just exist for no reason? Why would the elites use Satanic Rituals and symbols to further their cause and gain power?

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But even if you're not reading it as something divinely inspired, it's just not a very sophisticated way to read the Bible. There are some books of the Bible that are very obviously poetic works (Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Psalms, many passages from the prophetic works). When I get to this part, my atheist friends usually accuse me of simply "picking and choosing" what I want to believe is metaphorical and what isn't. But to read the text with any kind of sophistication you have to "pick and choose." Why should I read a more historically grounded work like the Book of Ezra in the exact same way I read a Psalm or a passage from the Book of Revelation? For what it's worth, most of the atheists I've had these discussions with are lapsed Baptists, so the version of Christianity they're attacking usually conforms to that set of assumptions.

Incompatible with modern education and science. Religiousness is taking a nosedive anywhere that isn't a shithole. Sure it can promote good values but at what cost? Advancement of humankind is more important.

What's your point user?

how can you possibly reconcile not only the infinite complexity of physical structure and mechanics, but of subjective experience and perception with your middle school - tier belief that EVERYTHING came from literally NOTHING instantaneously, outside of the arena of spacetime?

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it's the only explanation for existence. terrence mckenna had a funny way of putting it - the big bang theory only works if you allow for one tiny little miracle at the very beginning. science explains everything, you just have to give them that one little miracle where all that matter suddenly comes into existence and explodes with no scientific explanation

I'm sorry, but atheist elites don't practice satanic rituals?

why does gods existence threaten education?

Look around you desu. Most people are functionally NPC's. Religion is their cope, let them have it.

there are no atheist elites, once you become elite you realize the truth and stop tipping the fedora.
Answer the other questions. Why did Christianity dominate the planet and further civilization?
youtube.com/watch?v=z_cBOO3esAI

I don't think you know how evolution/the big bang works, it's too loaded to explain here. My suggestion is research for yourself, and have an open-mind

proof in what manner? can i prove that dreams exist to you?
probably not, but you have experienced dreams yourself so you can tell that dreams exist.
maybe you want to go a bit further and state that we have actually been able to analyze dream states doing those brain scans and have come up with a catalogue of different dream states
okay then, so now you have an argument that there is a physical correspondance to experiencing dreams that we can observe

now the religious experience is also something that people have felt, and people have also felt it, but it is not something that an unfuckable, unworthy incel such as yourself is even going to bother himself in getting into such a mood, and even if it did your kike indoctrinated brain will autistically screech with all its might to deny that your expeirence is genuine and will turn into a reductionist fallacy of calling ourselves being made out of mere atoms when words and concepts themselves are something beyond mere atoms
to put it in another way, i'm not going to spoonfeed you, you've got your god given mind and brain. use them

Stupid , they had free will otherwise they could not disobey God at all

Not God himself, just most religions based on one.

i donno about his god, but you can walk outside and look up to see mine. Don't stare, however, as overexposure causes harm.

The word "god" has infinite meanings. You can't prove it's real, and desiring "proof" of god is small-thinking. When people worship the fucking sun, it doesn't really make sense to focus on objective evidence for concepts that are almost always non-physical and subjective in nature.

you can logically disprove atheism by just picking a sound definition for "god". Most atheists don't realize they're actually using abrahamic conceptions of god in order to BE atheists at all. It's really weird. Source: ex-atheist

Christianity spread quickly because of many factors that allowed it to reach a large majority of the world.

I live in a very secular area so no not really. We cope just fine. Religion is a great way to cope, not arguing with you. So is meditation. Any mindfulness is good.

Here's the thing, even if I didn't believe, I'd still want to be involved in a religious way of life, reading the scriptures, attending services, singing the hymns, etc. I just think it's a better way of life. Why does it have to be such a big deal?

yeah because of destiny, because it's real. Because we wouldn't just exist randomly, due to the fact that it's mathematically impossible

Please no name calling, this is supposed to be a civil discussion, and I used to be a Christian, I bought into much of what I now know as debunked woo. There is no scientific proof that God or Jesus or Allah or anyone like that has come down and talked to anyone

Nothing wrong with wanting to maintain your culture user, but one should admit it's a bit of a sham. Just like modern pagans don't really believe the shit they're spouting. It's a tradition.

>Universe is created
>very simple at first, just gasses
>slowly becomes more complex, creating new elements etc
>eventually so complex with so many elements to have life form
Now this suggests things go from very simple, to more complex, thats pretty logical
So we can assume what started the universe was extremely simple
However if you think a "god" or "higher being" did it, you you're saying at the start was an EXTREMELY complex being which created a very simple universe
thats illogical to think that
not only that, but what would be the point of creating such a universe, why not create a more complex universe right away, save some time so you can create life sooner

ssssort of the had free will in the same way animals in a zoo do they did not have any consciousness in regards to what they were doing

Actually it's mathematically possible that we did exist out of nothing

ok where did the gasses come from or the laws of physics that demanded they for the way they do

Then why is Islam spreading so rapidly now? Is it real as well? I guess they're actually relatively close in term of core beliefs.

It's pretty simple, Christianity was enlightening at the time compared to people who believed in less sensical things. Now it's Islam's turn, spreading to uneducated folks.

Terrence was a drug addled lunatic. Spacetime didn't exist before the big bang so even referring to whatever was there using the word "before" is incorrect. We can't know what happened because it was outside of time and space and the universe itself is not beholden to the constraints that exist inside the universe like cause and effect, so you can't call the "cause" of the big bang a miracle and attribute it to a magical being. God is bullshit, religion is a valuable tool for society building.

there is no scientific proof for the scientific proof
this is what i'm talking about, the kikes have scrubbed your brain hard enough
i didn't come ITT to be civil so this will be my last post, but us christians outnumber you atheist numales by the hundreds of thousands, it is of no real importance for us to be friends to you outside of pity/mercy, we don't need you to take the planet back and as a matter of fact you're part of the problem that must be rooted out
the time for talking is over

*form

>there are no conservative elites, once you become elite you realize the truth and stop tipping the fedora.
>Answer the other questions. Why is feminism dominating the planet and further civilization?

no it's not scientists and physicists agree that everything had to be fine tuned in order for us to exist. Otherwise the universe would be full of life.
Because Islamists have access to gibs and have more kids, they aren't colonizing the planet and bringing God to savages, it's like compared apples and oranges.

Jesus was a real person but I get your point.
It's like people who believe in spirits or ghosts or magic, where is the proof? I understand faith. I have faith, just not to a divine being.

so in heaven there is no free will ?, the devil had no freewill ?... Turning evil has nothing to do with free will being activated

Sir, I hate to say this, but you're a real cunt.
>there is no scientific proof for the scientific proof
Google, dumbass
>you're part of the problem that must be rooted out
Says the asshole who claims I'm indoctrinated because he doesn't know how else to cope with his own

i see you're not actually posting in good faith
>ad hom
>hair splitting
>shuffle some definitions
>GOD IS BULLSHIT

This. As I was faced with the fundamental questions of physics I went from atheism to agnosticism to deism.

It's not that it had to be "fine tuned". We adapted to our surroundings. Life can develop anywhere, but it happened to develop on earth in this particular environment and we evolved to be suited to it.
There's no reason it hasn't happened on completely different atmospheres, but the first spark is just incredibly rare, yet infinite.

>no it's not scientists and physicists agree that everything had to be fine tuned in order for us to exist. Otherwise the universe would be full of life.

space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

Once again, comparing apples to oranges. Conservatives aren't allowed to become elite. You have to be a Satanist to be elite, because Satan goes against everything God stands for. Working hard and earning your place in the world/heaven is God's gift to man, Satan has control of the Earth and does this to spit in God's face, just as all atheists do, because they are in Satan's grasp.
youtube.com/watch?v=T14IljeUoCM

God was created to keep people from being pieces of shit back in the day where it was anarchy where they could just rape you or kill, steal and there was no surveillance cameras or forensic investigation to find you and humans are also naturally curious about after life and want answers so it was also comforting at the same time

>life can develop on the sun
yeah you're retarded.
>rare
try statistically impossible

>the first spark is just incredibly rare
So rare it can't be reproduced experimentally

I've been researching Gnosticism as a solution to the contradictions in Christian orthodoxy, is it legit?

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I went to a episcopal church growing up. It was very chill. I played in the bell choir. After church you got snacks and treats. And you’d say hello to everyone. church was very chill. It wasn’t about breathing threats of hellfire down your throat.

That doesn't disprove my point. The big bang theory was invented by a Christian scientist. It also has nothing to do with life on Earth being a >.0000000001% chance.

the ability to disobey god means free will the concept of good and evil is not something that humans are allowed to define only God

i think you're getting a little too caught up on "proof".

Science itself is based on an assumption. An axiom. You can't know anything about objective reality without making the assumption that it exists. It might be a safe assumption, but it still is one. So objective evidence, while very valuable, is not the ONLY means of discerning truth.

You're fixating on objectivity at the expense of the subjective. What constitutes a god, to you? What kind of proof would you require to understand that you're actually "believing" in a god by shaping your conception of "god" around some weird definition you have for it.

What does atheism mean to you? What proof do you need to change your mind? Are you agnostic in your atheism or are you certain you know?

The universe is so massive that life is a 100% chance

>universe is created
t. brainlet

>Muh ad hominem
>cites an individual known to be addicted to psychoactive substances
As far as the definitions I presented, they're from modern cosmology. It's why you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of cosmologists who believe in God today. You don't have to justify God to be religious user. I'm religious and I know it's not real but it's good cope and bants.

This is because you're cut. Therefore dumb.

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Proof I need to change my mind would be God himself telling me he exists, or an impossible to be debunked story or video

dead things do not become livings period annon

No, they are able to recreate the universe using simulations now, and life has not appeared once. You're just talking out of your ass and not even considering the fact that the universe's very existence is a phenomenon in itself. Atheists are ignorant in the fact that they literally believe something came from nothing.

I keep trying to fathom infinity.

well then you wouldn't have a choice annon god wants you to choose him

Atheism is a religion.

I guess my question was hypothetical. I don't think I could ever think it's completely a sham. More so that there are depths to it that we're never going to completely understand and a lot of the terminology and imagery we use is a matter of convenience. This is why I'm drawn to the kinds of religious experience typically described as "mystical." It's remarkable how similar the experiences of mystics from various traditions tend to be. Whether this is because they're actually exploring similar spiritual states or they're simply undergoing parallel psychological processes, I think they're onto something.

If it's of any interest, one of the best books on mystical spirituality I've come across from the Christian perspective is The Cloud of Unknowing, which was written by a medieval English monk.

Scientists disagree. It's probably impossible for life to develop on a star but there's no reason there couldn't be non-carbon based life forms that are so different from us we wouldn't even recognize them as alive.

Nothing can be "dead" without being alive first, what most likely happened was that some sort of material chemically ignited with another, causing an item to be alive. Basically water that needs to eat to survive (if I need to explain it like a 5 year old)

>I'm religious and I know it's not real
better go to bed you've got synagogue in the morning

As I said, incredibly rare. I'm just not egocentric enough to believe God only put life on earth, in an infinite universe.