One year in church, did not convert

Try parapsychology and occultism.

Yes.
Paul Bartman kinda made it hard for me to believe the magic of the gospels... You should watch his stuff.

It was written down and spread for the priest class. And Jesus was just an ordinary Jewish name at the time. Same with Paul, Jospeh, etc..

Not the Talmud, dummie, on the Torah!

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Did you even try, user? It really isn't that hard to understand. Maybe you're still too young to understand how all the pieces fit.

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Not true, not an ordinary dude, if he was healing people and casting crazy miracles.

I don't know if I believe in them... But, thats the thing. Choosing to have faith definitively improves your life, but I really want to be sided with truth.

Do you see how foolish the detractors are?

Some people are better suited at coming to Christ through the mind, followed then by the faith then simply trying to be preppy instant evangelical. Try looking into Christian philosophy and writers like Thomas Aquinas and the such. Peterson for the most part, is a good beginniners guide to the practicality behind Christanity.

user...

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No, thanks, it's either siding with God, or going the materialistic way. I don't want to meddle with occultism.

Wait, user was it a Prot Church or a Catholic Church? This answer matters. Prots make atheists because they're entirely divorced from the Church's traditions and esotericism.

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Priest class were the educated class. Does lying to your peers seem like a viable method of benefiting them, especially at the sacrifices they would make because of it.

>jesus was a good guy
If you disbelieve that He was the Son of God, then you can't possibly think Him a good guy. He'd be an absolute lunatic or a scoundrel or both, and there is no way way around this. He tells His disciples He is the Christ, literally God in flesh, repeatedly, only a lunatic would do so. He forgives sin in the third party, ie "I forgive this man for what he did to that man" despite no involvement, only a lunatic would do this. He convinced thousands to believe on Him, to follow His teachings, and convinced His disciples to walk to the ends of the earth spreading the gospel---at great personal sacrifice and no financial gain and ultimately leading to eaches cruel murder (save John)... and then spend great resources recording these "lies" on rare scrolls to be bled over as they propagated...only a scoundrel and a con man of the worst kind would do this.

There is no middle ground here, either He was Christ or not a very nice guy. This is just sugarcoated blasphemy from someone wholly ignorant of the Bible.

Occultism and God aren't necessarily incompatible. Occultism is just metaphysical knowledge. Also, parapsychology is metaphysical knowledge in the form of scientific studies - how can that be a bad thing and against God?

That is actually a great argument! But I think that 4-7 decades of oral tradition really could change the content about it. Reading Aristotle or Pliny can't change my behavior like believing that Christ is God, and that God chose to die for me...
I really think the time thing works against the gospels...

Do you believe miracles are impossible? Or do you think there is something wrong with the Apostles' testimony?

Yes but this was during a time when people didn't document things like we do now and consequentially had exponentially better memories. It's akin to Plato remembering the entirety of The Reupublic or people passing down Homer's poems orally.

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checked.

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just study the bible more objectively. look at what assumptions are made, what ideas they try to plant in your mind, and how your OWN biases come into play.

The gospels are real. They just have varying levels of accuracy. jesus was likely real, but at this point it doesn't matter. he's become a character, so study his origins and look carefully at the different ways people portray him.

Why would your life be better if you were convinced of christianity?

I am not sure... If there is a God, and he has a personal relationship with humanity, miracles are possible.

I am not convinced that the old testament is what really happened... It seems to me the folklore and national myth of the jews. And if you don't rely on the old testament, how can even there be a figure like Jesus? If the biblical God is real, that means that I have to accept the OT as being objective historical truth... Kinda hard to do that. I haven't closed my heart, I still pray, and still go to church reunions. I wish I didn't think like that, but I don't want to lie to myself. I still allow me to be convinced by any evidence that shows itself to me.

No serious historian thinks Jesus did not exist. There is much evidence outside the Bible, roman and jew/pharisee accounts. These people are just facing truth with ignorance.

Ancient history is such that, if someone literate and rich enough to have parchment bothered to write about you, it was enough to have you in history books, a few indeoendent accounts an epic and a few statues and you've got Alexander the Great.

I understand, I actually see the beauty of this argument, and am very inclined to give it props!
Still, I convinced myself that oral tradition on this differentiation of time, had to change the content what was being passed along generation to generation... I hope I am wrong.

>>no texts written
>>**no publicly known SURVIVING texts

careful of your presumptions. the early works would have likely been VERY dangerous to the elite at the time.

Believing the gospels means that there was a God to have an objective relationship. It would mean that there was a correct way of interacting with life and other people. It would mean purpose, in a cosmic grand scale, and in a micro and personal scale as well. All of that, bathed in infinite love, of a grand God, who sees me and cares greatly about me. It would mean that this God once chose to die for me.

All of those are powerful ideas. The idea that GOD died for you. And for love, in a divine scale. Thats powerful, man.

>i dont believe Jesus ever existed
Every real historians does. There is all kinds of extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus.

>Is there any evidence for Jesus outside the Bible?
coldcasechristianity.com/2016/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible-cold-case-christianity-broadcast-55/

>An Atheist Historian Examines the Evidence for Jesus (Part 1 of 2)
strangenotions.com/an-atheist-historian-examines-the-evidence-for-jesus-part-1-of-2/

>An Atheist Historian Examines the Evidence for Jesus (Part 2 of 2)
strangenotions.com/an-atheist-historian-examines-the-evidence-for-jesus-part-2-of-2/

user answer for me maybe I have some better advice to help you along the way. I used to be a Lutheran then went to Catholic school k-12, became an edgelord fedora tipper at like 16 and just recently came to the realization at 23 that God definitely exists in all His totality as canonized by the Catholic Church and I feel so ashamed at how stupid I once was. I used to think my religion teachers were goofy dumbasses and I was the true intellectual, but reflecting on it now I realize that the complicated arguments and material they were trying to teach me simply went over my head. I wasn't intelligent enough to comprehend them on a poetic/metaphorical/ontological/theological/philosophical level. I was blind but now I see before me the biggest redpills the world has to offer, and what I see every day given this context makes the Church my only refuge from this accursed world.

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>I am not convinced that the old testament is what really happened... It seems to me the folklore and national myth of the jews.
Book of Daniel written when the jews were in captivity at babylon predicted all the world empires.
Humans can't do things like that, screptures were inspired by God, i have no doubt about it.

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I do believe he was a real person, bro

You can adapt things forward...

Protz, I just visited multiple protz churches!
I really wanted to go to the orthodox church, but there was none near me.

>no evidence that he existed
>story plagiarised from older myths
Fake jesus is fake

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What did I said that was wrong?

It's OK, buddy. It wasn't for you.
Have a good life.

Dan 8:1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
Dan 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
Dan 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
Dan 8:4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Dan 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Dan 8:6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
Dan 8:7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Dan 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

>Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
>Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

it is powerful, and your perspective on it is interesting too.

i'd start with not worry about "believing" the gospel. instead, look at it as a massively influential piece of art and history. the new testament was shaped by the catholic church, so keep that in mind. But pay attention to the way the language flows. The way it uses the inherent power of language to instill different ideas while remaining vague enough to question.

there's nothing wrong with wanting to believe in a god like you describe. it might not be true or accurate, but these ideas wouldn't connect with you so strongly if there wasn't something "true" or meaningful in it.

i'd think more about how you perceive god. look at what you want from this concept, and what you expect. for me, god is the universe itself. even if there is no supreme "being", my definition of god helps me recognize the small pieces of beauty in daily life.

if a human has done it, it's part of the work of god, essentially. people say the universe is cold and unfeeling, but the universe has life so it seems a bit short-sighted to dimiss it so much. People forget that "tough love" is universal, too. Sure it hurts when you fall down, but if it didn't, you'd never need to learn to stand. it's an expression of love in the most objective sense. even if it's just your own body loving itself continuously as it pushes against the void.

Samefagging on my phone. Okay you really need to check out Orthodox or Catholic Churches and study their theology. I don't know as much about Orthodox, but I believe that Catholicism is Christ's true Church and as such acts with the direct authority of God. Protestant churches make atheists because they are inherently subjective and antitraditional. They're modernist cultural organizations that are Christian in theme. This is a gross simplification but you'll have to read René Guénon's The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times for more on that. Go check out Catholic Answers or Ascension Presents with Fr. Mike Schmitz on YouTube. Those channels are pretty good for explaining the Catholic faith. But honestly the best things you can do for your faith is lurk quality threads on pol and read lots of books. There's just too much to explain at once here but the more you learn the more you'll understand how all the pieces fit together. People who call you a Christcuck or whatever are literal Jewish shills or just braindead teenage edgelords. Ignore them.

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This is no adaptation it literally says the future, the great horn is alexander the great, he dies and the greek empire divided into 4.

How is it possible daniel in captivity in babylon know the future like this if not for God mercy and might?

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Gtfo you and your jewish god

Still haven't gave up on it.

>I do believe he was a real person, bro
Then you must hate Him see

Do you really think your life would be better believing in any of that? I'm pretty comforted by the idea of a universe not being controlled by a single interest. And the concept of eternal existence in the afterlife is the most horrifying torture I can imagine. I certainly don't want to exist forever.

i will pray for you

I don't know if the historical Jesus was walking around saying he himself was God, I am not convinced to believe the gospels are precise description of what really happened.
As I said, much can change on 40-70 years of oral tradition!

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>I am 100% sure he existed
1. Nothing was written about him at the time he was claimed to have lived. This is staggering considering the claimed miracles.
2. There are no reliable historical records that he existed. Reliable records do exist for other historical figures from that time, but not for jesus.
3. The jesus myth is a clear plagiarism of centuries-older myths. The tards who fabricated his story could not even come up with their own lies.
You can be 100% certain that he didn’t exist.

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based leaf, for once

But if Christ really resurrected from the dead, then that would put your concerns about the OT nearly to rest, because it would mean that you could suspend any certain belief about them. Faith is simpler than often portrayed:
christianthinktank.com/justlook.html

Anyhow, a very early tradition of the Apostles attests to Jesus' being raised from the dead:
carm.org/analysis-pre-pauline-creed-1-corinthians-151-11

And moreover it is the best explanation for the early Christian movement:
peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm

Especially when one considers all the available evidence for God and the immateriality of the soul:
amazon.com/Last-Superstition-Refutation-New-Atheism/dp/1587314525

I share these with you so you can take or leave them at your own will and pace. Take care,

I really hope Jesus will come back and save us from ourselves and others. I'm really scared but willing to fight if i have to, fren.

Please tell me, what happens at the end of time in your opinion? does it all just die?

Unbelivers and shills can't rebut this:Literally says kingdom of Grecia took over the Medo-Persian empire,
>Dan 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Alexander the great empire was very fast, he died with like 40 years and made one of the biggest empires of the world, hence it says "and touched not the ground" cause it was too fast.
The horn was alexander the great and when he died the Grecia empire got divided into 4.

>Dan 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Where is the rebutal to this shills?

>at the end of time
What does this mean? When will time end?

I dunno man, all this seems like ego to me. We'll see when and if Jesus comes back.

You went to the wrong church m8. Come to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Well, won't the Universe experience heat death or something like that at some point?

I think it's all bullshit, everything not just Jesus. It's just all bullshit, none of it means anything and eventually The Void will take us all and that will be it. I hope i'm wrong and God saves us and we can live forever and be happy. All of us, i want everyone to be happy. I want to be happy, whatever happiness is.

Maybe. If that does happen, then it’s game over for all forms of life.

>. All of us, i want everyone to be happy. I want to be happy, whatever happiness is.
Not gonna happen son. enternity isn't for everyone.

>Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
>Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Yeah, it kinda justifies any action, dosen't it? but since we don't know... i guess maybe that's why faith exists. I think it's possible that the Jesus God is real, maybe we should just have faith.

Why not?

Did you read those to verses?

Bump

>t. soulless flesh sack
Why would anyone want to be like you?

Portugal is based ignore him at your own peril

>Not gonna happen son. enternity isn't for anyone.
FTFY. And posting quotes from your little talking-snake book is laughably lame.

i will admit that when i did fully believe in Jesus and give my life to him i was much happier than i am now. even with the "restrictions" on things a christian is not supposed to do, i was happier then than i am now, with supposed freedoms. I just cant get my mind back into that state of believe. so yeah i wish i could believe it too. however, if the book of revelation is real, after the rapture happens we will know for a fact he is real, and even though i will have to live through the tribulation and ll that, at least ill know what my reward is so yeah im kinda hoping for the traditional book of revelation to happen

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OP you will find out one day, ama

But in reality I recommend reading the book of mormon. Unfortunately the bible as we now have it is not as complete as it may have once was. The books that were later deemed canonical wern't composed into a single book "bible" until about a thousand years A.D. Its been altered from a long period of corruption and mistranslation and even post catholicism can argue over the scriptural value of what are apocryphal books.

this

As far as i know The Supernatural is real and also the soul (or something like that) is real. I mean it's not even a question in my mind anymore, so Atheism is kinda just silly to me. But i gotta be honest i dunno what the hell is going on, it kinda seems to me like it's all just whatever. you know? and then everything just dies, at least in the real world. Maybe the spiritual world is a place where people can live forever.

still waiting for anyone to rebut this

>I wish Jesus and the gospels were real, my life would be better if I was legit convinced of that. Sadly, I'm not.

Of course it's not real. It's made up bullshit just like Zeus, Thor, and Shiva. If the God(s) were real, we wouldn't have doubt and we would all know.

Also there were twelve apostles and we only get few who's writings end up in the modern bible

>I wish Jesus and the gospels were real

What do you mean real? They help you live your life in a way that you will get the most fulfillment out of it while removing unnecessary suffering (I say necessary because some types of suffering is needed). That kind of thinking behind the message on how to live the best kind of life in practice didn't just appear out of nowhere without some divine intervention behind it.

Fuck off, kike scum, Jesus was a real person, if he was God or not, I don't know, thats a matter of faith, but his existence is not. It's an objective fact.

Yes, it sounds like God won't save everyone but He dosen't explain why. I mean why create people if you're just going to send them to Hell? maybe He's not in complete control of the situation? it kinda seems that way to me.

I still want everyone to go to Heaven. I do get why not though, many people are just.. shitty. And many are evil, i believe in evil btw, real evil.

I mean, maybe only the best White people get to go to Heaven, that would kinda make sense.

This

What I meant is, you have to take all the OT as real, because if Jesus was indeed the messiah, that was constructed during the whole of the OT construction... Since Abraham, going trough Moses and everything else. It meant that it was all real, and it was all pointing to the arrival of Christ.

>I do get why not though, many people are just.. shitty.
that's why my friendo, you are a funny dude :)

I believe in the soul, but that could just be a part of Nature, you know? like we're just "soul stuff" incarnating and living 3D lives and then eventually the spirit world dies along with the 3D world or something, like The Void takes us all. Kinda makes sense to me. i hope not, that would be horrible.

Hope you get yourself right with God, I just know that this better your life from multiple angles... It just happens.

>buttshattered godtard screeching at facts

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Fuck off, kike scum filth.
To believe in Christ, is objectively a superior state to being a nihilist degenerate faggot. Much better than your piece of shit religion of lying and deceit.

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You are the creation of God

Easy brother

yes yes, just pretend i didn't reply to you.
you talk about facts? how about the fact you can't rebut my post and the prophesy in the book of daniel?

>frothing at the mouth with rage and hatred
Behold the “good” christian

youtu.be/zYfqziBheLo post watch and share

>All Christians Are Cucks
archive.is/X8Tqk
>All Christians are Cucks #2
archive.is/iFGqR
>All Christians are Cucks #3
archive.is/J3Y6Z
>All Christians are Cucks #4
archive.is/pBMGf
>All Christians are Cucks #5
archive.is/Fddrl
>Cucktianity: What Is A Covenant
archive.is/Fdsxo
>Cuck Identity
archive.is/qQPMf
>Cuck Identity #2
archive.is/ICpaJ
>Indoctrination
archive.is/RgZOY
>Synagogue of Satan debunked
youtu.be/pfvd9JsEG-4

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There is no mercy for Christcucks.