I had a conversation with a lefty guy today about multiculture. He claims multiculture is great because Sweden and the rest of Europe has always borrowed stuff from eachother that we now think of as Swedish and in due time all the enrichment that 3rd worlders bring us will become Swedish too. He wouldn't listen to me about crime or losing our own ways and culture.
How do you argue against this?
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we dont have anything to borrow from niggers except rape and aids
Unfortunately I do not think that argument would work on him.
He's fucked. We are dualistic as human beings he probably have everything upside down.
I'd go with telling him how much more we are stealing from the Turd world when we take their ambitious people and use them as tax livestock when they should remain home and benefit their own people.
Then he has to say that there are only parasitic gibsmonkeys that come over, and you have that settled XD
Take care brother! Don't reveal too much of your powerlevel!
>Arguments against multiculture that works on normies
More of a philosphical discussion but here goes:
>What is the point of multiculturalism? Why does it exist?
>Does multiculturalism prevent racism? If so then where?
>Why in history has multiculturalism ever worked? If they say USA then ask them if beleive there is no longer any racism in the USA.
>Why is it racist to be against immigration?
>Why should the people who are generally opposed to immigration have to deal with the negative consequences of said immigration, and the politicians who promote said immigration be perceived as heroic in media?
>How does massive immigration affect the vulnerable in society?
>Multiculturalism is often said to increase competition for jobs with regards to the unemployed portion of the population to bring down the cost of labor. Is this ethical?
>Is it ethical to pay an immigrant less than a local?
more people in the west = more global warming
save the climate - stop immigration
Europeans have always borrowed stuff from each other but that can't be the same with inferior cultures that value rape, stealing and burning people on car tires. Just show him examples of the wonderful things you can find in Africa and then show them your country's demographics. Once you're done, ask him if he's ready to live a life where those filthy apes are the majority of the people living in Sweden. If he argues that they will eventually assimilate, show him statistics that prove him wrong, like Somalians not speaking a word is Swedish even after being there for 20+ years and just sitting on their asses all day living on gibs.
>He claims multiculture is great because Sweden and the rest of Europe has always borrowed stuff from eachother that we now think of as Swedish
Sounds like a ridiculous argument user, migration causes loss of local political reprsentation. Eventually representative politicians can just force people around and never take responsebility for the rate of unemployment because people accept that moving around or being displaced is such a great fucking thing.
If he likes IMmigration, does he also like exhodus or other types of reasons behind migration. What a brainlet you have on your hands bro :(
and in due time all the enrichment that 3rd worlders bring us will become Swedish too.
I don't get it, does he celebrate the loss of their identity or something?
People need identities, doesnt seem like he's too big on multiculturalism, he's more into assimilation (the opposite). Both suck tho.
People should be able to retain their identity and culture no matter what thus we need countries and borders. But if he dislike cultures and want a grey monocultural society then his reasoning is gold.
Yeah, but they always think you have an anterior motive. I mean, these people, lefties. They're brainlets. They don't know wtf they are talking about. Sadly politicians act the same way, they pretend they know a lot but they don't know shit.
Culture to a lefty and a politician is the same thing, fucking some thai tranny while eating a kebab. That's it, and that is the extent of their intellectual intelligence and cultural knowledge.
this. coax him into a snafu
This.
Western countries are on a path to adjusting its population and resource consumption to replenishable levels but the influx of migrants stops that.
If they argue against helping people, ask why don't we send them supplies to safe havens in neighbor countries. It costs oil and creates pollution to bring them here
>>Why in history has multiculturalism ever worked?
Where* in history has multiculturalism ever worked?
typo
>Western countries are on a path to adjusting its population and resource consumption to replenishable levels
A+
Unironically the UK but that's because they all agree to fuck off from one another besides national matters likes war
We were on that path up until the 80s-90s when politicians started to displace Africans into Scandinavia for no good reason
However, the economy has been reorganized to depend on the housing bubble which in turn is fuelled by immigration. Same goes for debt, immigrants have none and normies have lots.
It's disgusting once you get into just how fucked up and corrupt you have to be to promote something as despicable as that, but its the only logical reason I have found for immigration.
Unless you believe politics and lobbyism is driven purely by emotions and altruism.
most immigrants that come here live in poverty and also it would be more philantropic if we give developing countries loans, but big buisiness lobbies for immigration (which braindrains poor countries) because it needs experts, no one cares about developing poor countries and immigration doesnt help them develope
Thanks for the tips so far guys.
>Unironically the UK
no, I have "some" education in culture.
no, British colonialism and post-colonialism as well as modern British integration has not worked, at least not according to the same people who promote the type of multiculturalism EU wants us to have.
I often use Chinatown as an example because I advocate for multiculturalism being extremely harmful to a society, which it is. In my experience it has always led to conflict, ghettoization "incidentally seen as a net positive by the EU for some reason" and increased poverty. But Chinatown is not multicultural it is seen as a failure because it choses not to integrate. However it is the most, if not the only successful attempt in which a society tries to implement multiculturalism. Other than that UK has had a fierce integraton policy nd for the most part it has worked well for the UK, however that came at the cost to the culture which integrated. In some cases British culture is still present in India, so you can see it as a pollutant in a way. - Not putting any emotion into this, just talking from an anthropological perspective.
Well, for one don't start REEEEEing about Jews like the average basement fag on here. That will turn off the vast majority of normies.
Only when they are firmly white nationalist (or at least white identitarian) should you even attempt to broach that topic.
Let's say you meet a new unknown hunter-gatherer culture whose never seen a white man before.
Acording to the logic of people who promote the idea of multiculturalism, there is no reason why we shouldn't integrate or mingle wth them.
Acording to classical anthropology, conservative anthropology, it is harmful to their way of life.
This type of cultural preservation does not translate well into a western context. If I wanted to retain my own culture then I would be viewed as a racist because I would be generalized by the EU as a white individual, and my national culture would be according to deconstructionists, seen as socially constructed (neologism, everything is socially constructed). It's kind of telling that that the people who claim agency and to promote culture "multiculturalism" are the ones actively engaging in generalising people by ethnicities and promote the destruction of cultural uniqueness.
Multiculture is an oxymoron
Culture refers to SHARED values, ideals and traditions that unite a society. Multiculturalism promotes the exact opposite.
I have another approach
Let's say you are a prime minister and you enjoy other cultures, African for instance. But you fail to recognize your own culture as being worthy of the same preservation.
You try to impress other national dignitaries by promoting a "wide variety" of cultural performances, one of which is African music.
After the show is over you receive praise for all this as you steal the agency and attention away from African music in Africa, as well as taking it upon yourself to no lot represent local artists and musicians which you deem lesser for reasons unknown.
Is this ethical, I argue it is not.
There is no case for one culture being better than another. But politicians in particular have a responsibility to the country in which they are elected to represent, and they have a responsibility as officials not to steal the agency of other people (which can be seen as racist).
>do you believe in vaginal circumcision (female genital mutilation?)
>muslims do
>no lot
not*
That's a more common argument, it's not very effective as a lot of people on the left seem to accept female mutilation and circumcision as part and parcel these days. Don't ask me why, the left is insane
REALLY?
This is saddening
These are great imo. Makes them think.
Yes, there was some first generation feminists who tried to shed some light on this, but it's almost never written about in news media anymore.
very difficult, but doable if you go by steps
first you gotta make them agree cultural imperialism/colonialism is bad
then make them agree folk and popular cultural expressions are good
then you inch towards paganism
from there you can grow towards rural whites
then escalate to mainstream western
Try weev's R.A.C.E. strategy
Looks like the original link is down so here is the archive:
He claims he has used it multiple times successfully to convert shitlibs in very little time.
I think he meant Welsh, Scots, Englishmen and Irish and not the "modern" British.
Yes, whatever resonates with the people or group in question.
The absolute state of Brasil and the US, for example?
No problem bro, good luck in the elections
its easy, take their culture, make it your culture, then segregate them from your new culture.
they lose their culture, you gain some neat stuff, its a win/win
oh you mean coexist, no it's kind of funny. Welsh and English and Scotts and Irish did not exist particularly peacefully during recorded history.
But they are still ethnically and culturally related ethnicities, much more so than someone from Pakistan or Poland. Differences are usually the catalyst for racism though.
I've written to journalists about this, and I've written about this academically, but won't listen. They all brush it off as conspiracy theories. It is kind of amazing.
For real? Do you have it uploaded somewhere?
ask them to stop watching tv and reading corporate media for a week and instead reading crime statistics and why they, as a "leftist" would accept that our nations would be formed by profiteering corporations from the US.
There’s a lot of good suggestions ITT, so I’m gonna offer one that’s a bit different:
Most of the people like the lefty guy you are describing take positions like this not because they truly believe in them or understand the logical implications, they do so because publicly espousing them allows them to validate what they want to believe about themselves (“I’m so enlightened/tolerent/woke/etc”). The biggest motivating factor for them is “can I accrue social currency from this?” i.e. virture signaling. Since their reasoning is ultimately (and ironically) based on identity factors and not logic, you have to pick away at this foundation first and open him up to the threat of shame and exile from their protective in-grouping before you can begin explaining your point of view in a constructive manner. 1/2
For this, I recommend doing exactly what leftists do and go hard on the offensive right away as if the premise most favorable to your point of view is already well known and proven/eatablished. Leftists do this to others all the time, but rarely face it themselves so it might startle him enough to actually get him paying attention rather than merely waiting for you to finish talking and regurgitate (((talking points))). It also could be effective because leftism, being so socially dependent, thrives on herd mentality and if you can get him believing he’s behind the curve compared to everyone else as far as what the fashionable/common/acceptable narrative is you could trigger a bit of a fear/panic response that will work in your favor. Remember, leftists fear being outcasts more than anything and mold their viewpoints accordingly.
> “I believe somalis will assimilate and it’ll be great blah blah blah....”
>hol up let me cut you off right there bigot
> why should we be forcing them to give up their beautiful ancient culture of rape, murder, and dependency?
> you’re no better than racists who would rather just keep immigrants out. How hateful
Now he has a dilemma
> defend the idea of assimilation, thus erasing immigrants cultures (and tacitly admit that white/weatern culture is superior)
> defend foreign cultures of rape, murder, and dependency, in which case he contradicts his original position and must explain why such a culture should be invited in to live side by side with whites
> double down/deflect and try to claim that whites should change their own culture to better accommdate the rape, murder, and dependency valued by immigrants, in which case you pounce and say “but I thought assimilation/erasure of culture was bad? How can it be okay to erase one culture but not others?”
So now he either hates immigrant cultures or he admits that the cultures are incompatible and should not be forced to mix. 2/2
you literally can't what have whites accomplished on their own? Nothing except steal from pajeets and sand niggers. Jews dont count
Point out the situation in European. The EU is coercing member nations to accept their fair share of migrants.
Key words: FORCING THEM TO ACCEPT
They claim that multi-culturalism is good. But if this were true, then wouldn't these countries be fighting over who gets the most migrants? They would be happy to take as many as possible
Also, Turkey and other nations have made threats that if European countries don't do what they want, they will send even more migrants. In other words, they are using migration as a punishment, not a reward.
Let that sink in.
I think I should clarify it a bit more. The guy doesn't really care about crime, shrinking Swedish demographics, loss of our own way etc. He only views culture and multiculture as food, music, holidays and so on. So more fast food = better culture. The Christmas tree is originally German, after all, and maybe in 20 years the kebab will be viewed as Swedish. That was the implications he made.
Of course not.
This isn't bad, but I would believe he would dismiss what I say regarding crime and dependency as racism not worth listening to. And since he is pro-multiculture, he would not have a problem with them retaining their culture here or having ethnic enclaves on our territory.
These are some good ones.
Another good one would be:
>Is multiculturalism healthy for anyone involved?
Tell them how any culture involved is devolved into just a consumer item rather than a culture with meaning, history, and blood. Fix the argument to who you're talking to.
Talking to a poo in the loo? Talk about something about his culture, and tell him how in a multicultural society, his Hindu Gods are just something people put above a fireplace as decoration. Talking to a Chinese? Tell them how their culture in a multicultural society has devolved into mall court food, ignoring thousands of years of developing a culture. Talking to a white socialist? Tell him how capitalism is the reason why this virus of multiculturalism exists, just to make a quick buck off of the backs of millions of people taking thousands of years.
Using this argument gets a lot of people in my experience.
First one should define what he means by multiculturalism.
Or try using the paint bucket arguement. "Paints are colourful, bright and unique, untill you put them all in one bucket."
>they pretend they know a lot but they don't know shit.
Actually politicians are the opposite. You don't become a politician if you have low intelligence, they pretend to be stupid.
Normies don't respond to arguments. You ever notice how dumb the average person is? Half the population is dumber than that. You don't win normie hearts and minds through logic.
Normies respond to strength. You have to win on the level of tactics and strategy. Then the normies will come.
Pic related. They gained power through tactics and strategy. Then they started working towards securing the existence of their people and a future for White children. Then the normies flooded in. The normies had no idea what National Socialism is or how it works. All your average guy knew is he had a job that paid enough to take care of his family and that Jews were no long selling German child prostitutes. We are programmed by evolution to understand that is a good thing even if we don't know why that's a good thing.
Take control by any means necessary. Then follow the 14 words. The normies will come.
There's really not much you can do with a guy like that. Foodfags are some of the worst kind of multikulti cucks and nothing short of them getting beaten up or raped by a rapefugee will convince them not every culture works together as one. My aunt pretty much got redpilled when a raghead in Norway sexually harassed her in an alleyway (nothing bad happened, but it spooked the shit out of her). This was a woman who used to think brown boys were cute.
>How do you argue against this?
with organized mass protests
and guns pointed at their faces
(its not like if they could actually fight back, lefties cant fight)
it would just doxx me
ُEurope didn't have any culture after the fall of Roma . they took all of their culture from Muslims thanks to Crusades and their people used to go to Arabic cities to learn ... so much of culture and ways indeed
Yeah, I figured that might be the case. Oh well, I hope you can get your stuff through one day, min norska broder.
That might unfortunately be the case here. He even harbours an "unaccompanied asylumseeker" from Afghanistan. The "kid" looks well beyond 18, but he still refers to him as "my boy".
>He even harbours an "unaccompanied asylumseeker" from Afghanistan. The "kid" looks well beyond 18, but he still refers to him as "my boy".
lmao he's fucked. Does he live alone with the "kid" or is he a family man?
If multi culturalism is so good, why aren't African countries trying to improve by becoming multicultural? Whey isn't China, or Japan, or Mexico?
If multi-culturalism is in fact a good thing, then why aren't "developing nations" becoming multicultural? If it is as beneficial as they claim, wouldn't those nations need it more than any?
> (OP)
>First one should define what he means by multiculturalism.
This. Often times liberals say multicultural, but what they mean is multi-racial.
For example, most libs wouldnt consider a group containing Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, and German-Americans to be multi-cultural. They would just see a group of white people.
They would also not consider Elon Musk to be African-American, even though he was born in South Africa.
Libs will claim that race doesn't exist, then reduce all of the above mentioned people into the homogeneous categorization of "white people" and claim that they lack diversity... Because they are all white.. yet race doesn't exist....
Tell him about how America is multicultural. And the cities are all heavily segregated and have many no go zones full of crime. Tell him that in America, the different cultures never assimilate and just grow to resent teach other. Especially when it comes to people of different races.
No joke, I think he is a cuckold. He is married but his wife is "travelling" a lot. He also has a grown son that has moved out, hopefully he is more of a man than his father.
Like I said before, I think that he would still say that they are a success of multiculti because you can buy asian food and italian food very easily. Or he would dismiss it as white American racism.
That's a shame. Maybe he found a new "partner" in that Afgan kid, kek.
Great thread.
Excited about elections here in Sweden.
I think we have to accept that not all normies can be reached. Some people are simply lost causes.If none if these arguments wake him up, I think this guy might be one of those lost causes.
I've noticed something weird that everyone does. Everyone usually assumes that the staggering majority of people are fucking retards even though they are part of that majority.
>Look at these fucking normie idiots!
>proceeds to live normie life
You realize that every person around you thinks just as deeply, feels just as strongly about their own ideas that you do, right? Just because they don't spend all day typing their own propaganda to rando's/telling everyone around them constantly doesn't mean they are mindless sheep, unthinking automatons that live only to work and sleep.
If you want to convince people of your ideas you'll have to come up with better arguments and counter points. Trying to force your ideas on others is a sure fire way to get shot or ignored. Before nazi Germany or Soviet Russia subversion like that would work but people know history and none with half a brain would want to live in either.
People just want to live their lives and not be hassled or annoyed by ideologs.
I think when most people here say "normie", they think of people who just live their lives without ever thinking of the bigger political picture. I do not think that most people think too much about the future of their nation, culture and people, thus they latch onto the mainstream narrative.
set fire to his car
' I don't hate anyone, I just want my group of people to always be large enough to perpetually sway the vote in our interests'
Ie too many browns might vote for illiberal policies. Apply them to your friend depending on what she he might consider awful. Ie gay rights ect
I always b8 them into saying we should "save" them, eventually making these people call the migrants' countries "wartorn, impoverished, etc" (liberal code for shithole) and bring them to "developed" (((western))) countries.
I basically pretend to be a liberal, and try to make them realize how racist they are by subconsciously holding browns to lower standards.
The best way to convince someone is by making them come to their own conclusions. If you try to "debate" them, theyll defend "their" views. If you come to them as a friend, pretend to agree with them, you can actually help them to redpill themselves.
Truth is always truth. If you see some intellectually dishonest sjw type behavior, pretend to agree and then double down. This is what Jow Forums is so good at. This is what Jow Forums has taught me