Theists can't answer this

Evil is simply deprivation of one good or another, it is baked into the pie of finite creation.

So no, God is not willing to prevent evil always serves some greater good.

People are sick of answering it. Some twat like you, ignores the answers and posts it again. So just Fuck off.

trips dont lie

literal brainlet unable to understand that god is not your babysitter

Good and evil are artificial meaningless concepts

First Epicurus would have to prove that his epistemology can account for his moral system. Outside of God, what would his reasoning be for calling God evil? Can his theory of knowledge and presuppositions account for this?

>What kind of loving god lets his clergy skull fuck the children for thousands of yearas?
Jewish God
Catholic Church abuse mostly occurred in the 70s and 80s, the last time psychologists tried to push pedo acceptance

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God is identical with goodness

Why the fuck would a transcedental concept of ultimate totality have anything to do with human developed concepts that we invented in order to make reproduction of masses more convenient?

People identifying God with ethics are absolute fucking retards. Grow out of sand religion concepts and think for yourselves

Free will son.

They get their punishment afterwards and the children get their rewards.

Matthew 18:6

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

I'm not justifying the tyranny of wicked men, but I'm saying they know what they chose the same way I choose not to fuck children.

To act as if free will outweighs the act of abolishing all evil is asinine. And you should be raped and then shot for suggesting such.

all of those questions are based upon the assumption that the actual god that made the universe is a personal god, ontologically aligned with humans, or even concious

the demiurge on the other hand is completely evil. the demiurge is what most believe to be god

>Free will son.
Truly sick. So it is ok that the clergy cum bomb the innocent. Truly sick.

trips of truth, this thread should have ended here

Evil is the necessary counterpart of Good in order for it to exist, as Woman is the counterpart of Man, and Flesh is of Spirit

In other instances, earthy evil is the test of Deity to humanity. In order to reach sanctity, overcoming obstacles is necessary.

"and we can assure the piety of he who manages to make his brother's life difficult"

>being a gnostic

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>think for yourselves

Think about this statement for some time and see why telling us to think for ourselves is ridiculous.

I have proved that God exists and it is all powerful.
But I cannot find proof that he is good or loves us. The only thing I could prove is that he is absolutely fair and therefore not a woman.

Only because your pea brain can't think of an alternative.

might makes right
If you dont acknowledge God you go to hell

God signed a contract with man, God is thus bound to that contract of his own volition, in order for us to keep up our end of the deal. That contract includes free will, if God starts mucking around with stopping peoples' actions from occurring, one can not say we have free will. God is omnipotent, but can not act so, because we are not. Humanity is the limiting factor here. Good and evil are moral arguments dependent on perspective, that require enforcement of one's view, which God as stated is contractually obligated not to do.

You do realize that Epicurus lived like 300 years before Christ and that the Book of Job is literally about this dilemma as a whole?
Of course you don't, people who shit on religion almost always have a baffling misunderstanding of even the most basic concepts of said religion, especially in regard to Christianity.

No, it's really not.

We want to what we want to do. Liberty, above all else, is the chief driving force of humanity -- there's no way around that. Countries without liberty, where political dissidents are executed; religions without liberty, where apostasy is met with death; jobs without liberty, where you have to work the insane hours your dickhead boss tells you to work; all of these have people desperately trying to leave on the regular.

God does intervene on the regular, but He seems to act more in the way of giving people plenty of time to repent before meting out brutal justice for particularly egregious crimes.

Quick, do you want to drink on a Friday? Evil. Want to work on a Sunday? Evil. Want to sleep with your cousin? Evil. Yell at your mom? Evil. Want to do anything that isn't rigorously following, every day of your life, the example set by Jesus? Guess what son? You're still doing evil.

Try living a life remembering all the rules, keeping your emotions in check all the time, never spending money on something that isn't absolutely necessary and see how much you enjoy life then.

2/10 for making me reply

kek why are spainbros so based??

I don't see why God creating things which have evil in them is contrary to his goodness; evil is not a thing apart from the good, it just undoes the good.

The evil of suffering is just the undoing of your bodily integrity, moral evils are the undoing of human character.

God is not compelled by his infinite goodness to make a creation that will not be undone.

Fedoras seem to often quote Epicurus because one might think he was an atheist because he rejected the monotheistic view of demiurge, even thought he repeatedly talked about gods.

Just goes to show how unknown most of these philosophical systems are to the typical western mind. You pick up a quote from here or there without understanding the system as a whole and now you have your new favourite philosopher. Congratulations, you fucking faggot.

English is not my native language and I don`t feel the same semantic intricacies that you do, if that is what you mean, and I hope it is because the other option is you being a passive aggressive woman.
Pondering the nature of god through polarity of good and evil is the same as a machine pondering the nature of man through questioning the elegance of their algorithms, nothing is perfect, everything is a perpetual process towards ever changing goals, god is what we call the transedental principles that seem omnipotent in concept, but are to some other principles as small as ants are to us, its an infinite hierarchy that goes in circles infinitely

The god of the bible aka God, the Lord, etc. is all things, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:7. He also says he isn't the only god. Exodus 20:3, 1 Kings 11:4 If this Greek retard had actually bothered to read the book instead of being a whiny proto-fedora tipper he would know this.

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A god who is upset with the behavior of said churches. Are they really places of God? Exteriors lie.

where am I mistaken and why, my leafy mate?

> Liberty, above all else, is the chief driving force of humanity

No not really, people come to the west because they want money, there's nothing particularly free about the west either.

I'm sorry you can't imagine NOT wanting to do evil things. This is what your argument boils down to.

God is omnipotent. The issue comes from the claim that he is malevolent. If evil can be used to form a more meaningful good/more good/whatever or come by logical necessity of some good then you cannot make the claim that God is malevolent letting evil occur. However, evil does not "exist", it is simply a privation of the good.

A good example of the benefit of evil in theology is the doctrine of Free Will. Something created with the intent of experiencing love and sharing in God's love requires the ability to voluntarily choose to love, else the love is mechanical and not actually love.
This can be applied to things naturally in the world as well, such as the finite and distinct nature of the universe enables things to run up against one another and cause clashes which cause a lot of things. We could say this derives from the same sort of purpose but I won't assume to be a theologian.
More to the point, for Catholics, what suffering comes is a method towards growth towards virtue in various means. It could allow an important good, it could break your heart so that it be more open, it could be a method of transformation, or it even could be repercussions of sins playing out to persuade you away from it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemptive_suffering
We must try to relieve suffering but we do not relieve it by attempting to escape it but relieve it by overcoming it. And in that we are united with the suffering of our God, who has suffered with us.

Ultimately, like most Greek theistic problems, they are made towards the Hellenistic conception of gods and so it really isn't applicable to God unless you perceive Him as that sky wizard. The apostolic denominations (catholic, Orthodox, oriental) support the Classical Theist view.

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No, you utter retard, it's not okay that they do that. As someone that's been molested by a priest though, I can tell you it's not the end of the world, it's not the most horrible thing on the planet, and life does go on.

You know what is pretty fucking horrible though?

Not being able to follow any ambitions, not being able to act on any desires, not being able to follow any instincts because the only truly "good" thing in most situations is asking yourself "What would Jesus do?" and then realizing that you don't have a fucking clue how to make that line up with what you want.

Again, I'm not saying molestation of children is okay by any means, and I fight with a lot of temptation on my own (not child molestation, but other vices), but it's significantly better to be presented with the opportunity to do either wrong or right and then do right than to never be presented with an opportunity.

Nice strawman though.

Why do they want money? Because it lets them do what they want.

Fuck you're dumb.

it's ironic, because malice sometimes has a positive effect in life. think about it, how foolish would you be if you had never come across any kind of hardship?

sometimes people are made martyrs of violence and great change is achieved.

I haven't given it enough thought. but it's come to a point where I am actually thankful for the enemies I had in my past.

now Epicurus might poise another question. if god does exist, than is it worth worshipping?

>If this Greek retard had actually bothered to read the book
The greek retard lived 300 years before your "saboir" was born. further, your book was not written until 150 years after your "saviour" died. who is the retard?

>God is omnipotent. The issue comes from the claim that he is malevolent. If evil can be used to form a more meaningful good/more good/whatever or come by logical necessity of some good then you cannot make the claim that God is malevolent letting evil occur. However, evil does not "exist", it is simply a privation of the good.
This contradicts God being omnipotent. Since he could create even more good without evil.

If fedora tipping atheists actually read the bible they would know that God has a plan for the wicked which is why evil is allowed to exist. Holy fuck it's not that hard to comprehend. You morons think you're in check mate but you haven't even moved your first pawn.

Ending evil would simply shorten the spectrum of things you are able to do, and you wouldn't miss that end of the spectrum, because it's something you would have never known.

Fake quotation.

>Why do they want money? Because it lets them do what they want.

Yes they want stuff, not some gay abstract freedumb

Whats the point of living if someone else is going to do it for you?

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You think I don't imagine? Breh, I was molested over the course of a weekend alone with a priest. I imagined grabbing a kitchen knife and putting it through his throat a few times there and then.

But two wrongs don't make a right.

Looking back, I'm not sure if I should have actually done it because there's no chance I was the only one, but I've imagined, I just recognize that EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET is flawed and people act on instinct a lot. It's necessary to recognize that instinct is sometimes wrong and you need to reassess what a prudent and ethical course of action is.

This is something that gets lost in a believers mind. I think the root of it is that they fear they can't actually do evil shit, therefor god is just.

Some people want the money to never work again. Some people (like me) want the money for philanthropy. Some people want the money for a Ferrari.

It literally doesn't matter what the end result is, it's the same driving principle -- "I want to do what I want to do", i.e. liberty, or freedom of choice.

This universe was created to trap evil, and now that it is trapped here, it will be destroyed.

The quantity of good God decides to create does not impeach his goodness or omnipotence.

This kind of falls apart when there is an actual afterlife where your actions heavily determine what happens to you.

>The world is kind of shit in some places
>You are raised in one of those shittier places
>As a result of your shitty upbringing and with some influence of genetics you become a shitty person
Have fun suffering in the next life because you suffered in this life

Most cannot even agree as to what 'God' actually is.

It's not unreasonable to assume that God is benevolent and mighty, but not able to interfere with our world.
As fucking AWFUL as this place is, my imagination is just good enough to imagine how much worse it can be. A truly malevolent and omnipotent God could have made us as a race of downies that produces the odd, hyper intelligent and cruel mutant, for instance. He could have conceived an immortal and sterile race of blind idiots in constant agony

This quote is kinda weird to me, since it comes from a Greek. Their gods were not omnipotent OR benevolent.

Doing things i want =/= some abstract liberal political ideology.

If a god does exist and he truly is all powerful, then he is simultaneous all of those and none of those. Human logic and understanding would not apply to such a being.

>God is certainly capable of creating a world without free will where everyone is a slave to him for then entirety of their lives, but that wouldn't be a loving God (if you love something set it free...)
You are already a slave though, you are given two options
>Worship me and get everlasting glory
>Refuse me and be tortured for all eternity

Holding a gun to someone's head and threatening to shoot them if they don't do what I say isn't moral, even if you think reprogramming them to willingly do what I say is worse.

It has actually been answered many times, we even have this thread often.

TLDR:
Atheists ITT with primitive understandings of what God is make up arguments for their theist opponents

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If you exist now, then you have always existed.

>is God willing to prevent evil?
No. Next question.

What sort of free will does a child victim have. Oh, you're protecting the free will of the perpetrator? There is only one of two possible conclusions that I can make:

A) There is no God.
B) God is evil.

I'm going with A) because I'm not superstitious.

Taking away peoples' ability to do evil is malevolent because it removes free will.

No, He can't create more good without reducing free will. Creating more good requires more instances of Him "assuming direct control", which reduces personal liberty. By it's very nature, you need good and evil in tandem for true freedom to exist, but not being able to reduce the evil does not negate God's omnipotence, just like God not being able to create a triangle with more than (our measure) of 180 degrees, or that stupid "stone so heavy he can't pick it up" bullshit does.

Actually yes, most of the great religious traditions can agree on what God is, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, some Buddhists.

God being non-contingent being, or self-subsistant being, that generates our created world.

Everybody suffers, buddy. Some people just know how to learn from it and others turn bitter because of it.

You're missing my point entirely. I'm proposing a world where our standards eliminate the ability to do evil, there is still freewill, but it isn't total. The same way we don't have free will to experience other dimensions, to see in other wavelengths of light. We don't miss these things, because we don't experience them. I'd choose not to experience evil, in trade for not having the freewill to impose evil on others. This is the something a all powerful god could conceive, yet you're not creative enough to imagine it.

muh bootstraps

Case in point, notice how the atheist frames people having the option of eternal heaven and bliss as a bad thing?

as a gun to the head?

When in actuality, without God, we would ALL be fucked, there was no choice.

Atheists continue to prove they hate free will too

>What sort of free will does a child victim have.
Indeed.

I just want to associate with who I want, do business with who I want, and build in my own backyard without being told what is and isn't acceptable design and pay a shit ton of permits.

Guess who has more Freedom* in that department faggot?

Then he isn't a god. Sorry.

The point of life is to obey God and thats it you stupid christfag.

They won't, they need their mythology so the can form a gang of holy pedophiles
God is a jewish myth

Imagine being able to do all that, without being a self serving asshole, or even having the option to.

>commie
>god

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>gnostic
>when your holy book is someone else’s holy book, but it’s wrong

>Epicurus
Really I should stopped reading there, but I decided to read the quote just to be nice, and refute it to be nice to brainlets with meme flags and autism

So basically this boils down to the "problem of evil". So why would god allow evil to exist? Because he allows each of us to have free will. If at any point god took away free will from ANY man, we would no longer be free.

This "muh problem of evil" shit is absolutely childish, and more or less boils down to communistic values.

The epicureans were hedonistic children, and some of the earliest marxist type philosophy can be found in this ancient hippies babbling.

absolutely sage

That's not an argument at all, it is circling around the question. A good parent won't let his kid stray away but a god will do it? Bullshit!

Same can be asked for theists, how can they live abiding to jewish-written dogmas and mythology?

I guess I am for believing a fake quote posted by a butthurt fedora tipper.

God is he who make the flowers grow on top of each others.
Pain is good

If you read Nietzsche, you'll understand why he despised that fag and Socrates for challenging the gods of their time with the idea of a virtuous man.
Fuck off you illiterate moron how does this get so many replies

>able but not willing
becuse that's your responsibility.

>imagine a god that’s stupid then don’t believe in him
Atheists, everyone.

God permits evil to come to pass so that it can bring him Glory, which is his chief concern and ultimate end. That glory can be brought about through either the redemption of the sinner through his son, Jesus Christ, or through the everlasting punishment and damnation of those people who remain hostile to him.

Epicurus has essentially constructed a strawman

The answer is that God is amoral he neither good or evil he just does what he desires, christfags are stupid so they think a being with the intelligence to create a universe would have any morality whatsover rather than be an incomprehensible amoral force. The only moral being in Christianity is (((Jesus))).

if cannot create the perfect world, why call him god. he is no thing to be worshiped if he is a failure. The only thing that is proof of a perfect being is a perfect creation

schoppenhauer tells you how best to

So basically God is following some higher Prime Directive?

>(((God)))

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This is incorrect as omnipotence is having all powers. The logically incoherent cannot be logically said to be a power. And if we did include it you'd wall yourself in and be unable to argue as we cannot grasp the logically incoherent so you wouldn't know if it was happening.

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>Case in point, notice how the atheist frames people having the option of eternal heaven and bliss as a bad thing?
Because if you refuse than you are punished. That is the fucking point. It is pointless to say you have freedom when you are punished for using that freedom. Eternal bliss isn't bad (well I think it is for philosophical reasons, but I digress), what is bad is that you are offered two options and the infinitely worse option is forced onto you if you don't do what the other person wants.

>When in actuality, without God, we would ALL be fucked
We just wouldn't exist bro.

>Atheists continue to prove they hate free will too
Because Christianity doesn't offer free will. If humans had free will god wouldn't directly punish them for their actions. Don't worship god? Well that's fine and dandy, it might result in less fulfillment in life but that is your choice. Steal and lie? Well that's your choice, I'm not going to actively punish humans for it, but other humans may not trust you as much and they may decide to punish you.

A perfect world is an unfathomable concept which humans could not exist in either, humans worship deities mainly because of their power and it is natural for the weak to obey the strong or the invincible in the case of deities.

Do yourself a favour and go to Google and type "Define: Liberty" right now.

This is a dichotomy I struggle with myself for a while, but allow me to explain:

Yes, it did seem like slavery and the "you get option A or B" for a while, but humans do have an innate sense of altruism, morality, call it whatever you want. The more I looked into how and why the rules associate with worship were beneficial for my own health and the health of society, the more it made sense to me to want to choose the right thing over the wrong thing of my own accord more often. It's at the point for me now that I just do my best to do the right thing BECAUSE it's the right thing.

Maybe that's not enough for God. Maybe it is. I don't know. But I'm going to keep choosing the right thing as often as I can and keep striving to do better for the sake of being better because, as a wise man once said, only God can judge me.

Yes, that's exactly why child molestors are so heinous -- they rob children of their own free will because they have the physical power to do so. Every one of them will be punished in due time, don't worry. Ultimately though, the molestor had a choice and they chose wrong, and in doing so, robbed the child of their choice. That's why we have laws against this shit. God's not evil, people are evil.

Free will. F R E E W I L L.

I'm not a theist, but they would say
"able, but not willing, does not imply malevolence"