How much longer can we pile on debt before shit starts to hit the fan?

you know the government has no intention whatsoever to pay off the debt, right?
at this point money isn't even a thing

just print more money faggot

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can someone clarify who the US in actually in debt to? Where are they getting the money from? Fuck i don't understand economics.

Don’t even start. You’re gonna be crucified and or kiked out of conversation.

Yea anyone with a triple digit IQ understands T-bills and and the age-old rollover of the principal.

Well in 2001 you had to take down the two towers, that was bad enough, in a few years they will have to do something else.

We borrow money to fund our government when it is running a deficit. Also we borrow new money to pay off older maturing bonds.

Once it hits about 140 trillion, things start to get dicey. Before that, it doesn't mean shit.

>seize goggle
problem solved

Forever because Jews live t here

>owe your own citizens money
>heh we'll just bomb ourselves

So by 'borrowing money' you mean government bonds are given to the US government by the fed?

Eliminate universal education, Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, cut corporate taxes and eliminate the inheritance tax! It's the only way!

The USA was forecast to collapse by just about every leading economist after it went off the gold standard and started borrowing money. It didn't. Here's the problem with economists: it's not that they're wrong, it's that when they're wrong, they don't tell you why. In this case, they were wrong for a simple and strange reason. When you examine the finances of a business, you ask three questions:
>What's its revenue?
>What's its debt?
>What's its net worth?

Economists judge countries by taking its total debts, regardless of when it falls due, comparing it to one year's revenue, the GDP, and holding their heads while shrieking about the end of the world. You have to take a look at the national net worth to understand that Japan has withstood 25 years of crushing debt, which it should not have withstood, and likewise, the United States has withstood, because they both have an extremely high net worth. Iceland however, with a gross national product of one herring and eve online, wouldn't be able to withstand a much smaller hit. At the end of the day, size does matter. And you can't get away from the fact that the economists who analyze nations are not looking at the whole picture.

Instead, they should look at the structural capability of the nation and cost out the debt over time, which is how debt works, rather than looking at a single year's revenue as the source of the nation's wealth/power. Which is a complex way of saying if I took a look at your bank statements, some of you probably have car loans or mortgages that exceed your yearly income. So if I was an economist, I'd figure you're all bankrupt. But you're not, because you have assets.

And when you bring up this point to an economist, they ask two questions: How can you measure the net worth? And how can you monetize it? Well monetization is easy: you print money, which is a flat tax against everybody. It's not completely exact, there are some things can't be monetized, but it works pretty well. How do you measure it? Well you can generate a value by using the financial formulation for a growing perpetuity given the GDP, the average market return, and the average growth rate. But honestly, it's really not all that important. Drive around the United States for a while, you'll see there's a lot of stuff there. You don't always need a quantitative analysis to know that "Hey, those guys are pretty rich."

All this is to say that anyone who tells you the national debt is something that will lead to imminent collapse isn't telling the whole story. Sure printing currency devalues the dollar. But with 25% of the world's GDP being American, currency manipulation isn't really all that hard to deal with. And if you're that worried about it, you can buy gold or stocks. But the overall point is that the national debt, while not a good thing, isn't something you need to panic over, and should start coming down when the baby boomers die off and their kids (another large generation) are in their 40s/50s and paying taxes on their peak lifetime incomes.

People and institutions voluntarily give money to the US government as an investment with the promise that they will receive a larger amount of money back a few years later. The US government is is neither expected to nor should pay back money before that point in time. As long as the US government can pay when the time comes there is no problem. A large national debt is an indicator that people and institutions have trust in the economic stability, growth and viability of a nation and its markets. It is completely unlike a personal debt of somebody who has lost all his money.

china and russia and india are going to dump the dollar soon anyway. so they are going to directly wage war against it. the goal is to get rid of it as a reserve currency then the US will pay th debt by suffering a devaulation of its buying power.

rule of thumb: national debt should not exceed GDP

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Well, let's hope we don't lose in the various proxy wars and small special forces engagements over resources then.

>he thinks government spending and debt works just like his personal finances

That’s literally the case for most Western countries at this point

So is the US debt increasing because people aren't getting paid back, or because the government is taking out bigger loans in order to conclude the transactions it has made earlier?

how does it work then?

remember this the next time some fag rants about "keynesian" economics being bad.

Keynes' argued that states should save money during economic booms by paying down debt and even building treasuries, so that they can spend money and/or borrow during a downturn. No one fucking saves during the good times. The problem isn't Keynes' idea, the problem is retarded politicians and retarded voters

It can keep going forever as long as USA coerces other nations tobuse the USD
The next real war will be between US and China over the petroyuan v petrodollar

They pay debt with treats of violence.

see

Let's face it: if tomorrow the USA were to declare bankruptcy, in two days the rest of the world would be buying US debt again.

it's a mind prison then

> print

We're about to say fuck you to Chinese debt holders because they hacked Hillary's emails. No debts paid to people were are at war with.

our debt to gdp is about 105%

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Forever. When the our current currency becomes worthless they'll just start printing up a new one.

debt is only bad when democrats do it

we should all do a litle trick: every country to send all dollars back to u.s heheh

As we should. They stole billions/trillions in intellectual property and we should itemize and charge them the for the whole thing

versobooks.com/blogs/3568-are-we-heading-for-another-economic-crash

The west started to decline exactly at the point when we transferred our industry and technology to mongoloids and poos

In the 50s, 60s, 70s, Whites transferred their industry and technology to Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China and other Asian shitholes.

As a direct result of shifting White industries to Mongoloids, the US experienced the ‘Long Downturn’ deindustrialization era, which turned the West into the Rust Belt. After, 1973 the growth of output, investment, productivity and wages was 1/3 lower than during the previous quarter century, while unemployment levels were several times higher. The mongoloids who stole White technology were responsible for the decline of White civilization. Economically, the Mongoloids achieved overcapacity and overproduction in the international manufacturing sector, which led, by way of incessant downward pressure on prices, to reduced profitability – and the failure of successive attempts made by traitorous (((corporations))) and White governments successfully to respond to this.

To reiterate, the problem originated in the 60s as a consequence of transferring White industry to Yellows, which led to the intensification of international competition, which itself resulted from the stepped-up entry into the world market of lower-cost producers based in Asia.

Only ever greater doses of Keynesian deficit spending, thru debt-based bubbles inflating assets, prevented the onset of severe depression and societal collapse, but at the cost of runaway inflation, unemployment, immigration, demographic replacement, and declining standard of living

Tldr: fuck boomers

How is this any different from personal finances. If I borrow from a bank, I have to pay more than I borrowed in the future and the bank only let me borrow money because they think I will deliver them money.

Ask your local Rabbi

no, only Italy and US, but some more are close
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Japan is over 200%.

>nowadays the more debt you have, the richer you are
>thanks jews!
offshoring industrial production leads to an economy entirely based on asset speculation given that the nature of money as capital is too find new sources for its valorization.

Since the 70s, the West has been delaying a Great Depression and societal collapse resulting from the transfer of Western industry and technology to Asia, which was a misguided geopolitical blunder to build up a capitalist sphere against a failing USSR.

US (like a good goy) was rebuilding Europe and Asia after ww2.
First Taiwan, HK, Korea, Japan and then China to contain USSR.
It was truly the most retarded geopolitical move ever orchestrated.
The demise of US and rise of Asia is a direct result of this incredibly misguided policy.

Shit will never hit the fan.
Debt is the new global currency.
The more debt you have the richer you are (if you're a government).

You and the bank exist in a hierarchal system. The international system is anarchic.

>in two days the rest of the world would be buying US debt again.
this
for all the larping people do about europe and china being reserve countries, Which international investors are actually going to be piling trillions into countries that are either lagging economically(europe is fucked) or put it into a quasi-communist state such as china, people dont understand the flight of safety aspect of America,

There will be a recession but likely a minor one where the rich continue to consolidate their wealth by buying lower into the stockmarket at discount. That said trump plans for taxations relief have essentially locked wealth for generations which as we can see if creating a new noble elite of oligarch

It will go on and on and on and on and on. Who is going to stop them?

He also said we should bury money and dig it up again to rebuild our economy.

It's already over 100%/GDP, you guys are fucked.

He cant.

The debt must be doubled roughly every decade, or the system fails.

Problem is, eventually people stop loaning to someone in that much debt. That honestly happened under Obama, but he kept it going with QE, aka, hyperinflation.

He did his best to keep that hyperinflation in the Wall Street, but eventually it works it's way out to Main street. Since 2008, prices for pretty much everything have doubled (if not more).

As soon as we hit the next market cycle (recession) and the money clears out of the markets, we are fucked. That's when prices will run wild, and people have to start eating zoo animals.

The debt is to everyone. Me, your mother, china, Saudi Arabia.... everyone. Pensions, social security, federal aid programs, african aid, aids research... everything.

Start here.

youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

>Get debt
>start war
>sell arms
>$$$
>rubbleize
>rebuild
>$$$$$$$
If the us starts having a bad time they'll just start a war somewhere so it's irrelevent

The only difference is scale and the balance of power. Other then that it is the same, but corporate shills don't want you to know that

>Japan and China
>even remotely the same

What't the problem? Just print more money and the debt is halved.
-t. increasingly nervous ((economist)) declaring DRUMPF is hitler for the 90th time this month

>US (like a good goy) was rebuilding Europe and Asia after ww2.

You mean holding a machine gun next to a local moving bricks?

Cause that's what actually happened.

wars are much more expensive than the actual return, you fucking kike. I highly doubt that invading iraq was worth the 3T $ expense net of interests.

Globalists do not calculate GDP based on production/manufacturing. Our manufacturing was transferred to our enemies in Asia and the tropics. it does not exist in the US.

Globalists calculate GDP based on consumption. The more shitskins you smuggle in, the higher the demand. The higher the demand, the higher the consumption. The higher consumption, the higher the GDP.

Globalists are Smuggling in millions of Shitskins to boost the GDP of the debt-based Consumption ponzi scheme.

nowadays the more debt and shitskins you have, the richer you are

South Korea, Taiwan, HK, China became industrialized in the 50-00s (Japan 30 years earlier) thanks to America transferring White industry to Asia and money funding their industrial development

the deinndustrialization of US started with Kissinger/Nixon/Rockefeller's globalist shift to China and also Taiwan/Korea/Japan. the steel belt became the rust belt in the 70s due to their policies.

the clintons continued rockefeller's policies (including NAFTA)

the "Rust Belt" is a term that gained popularity in the U.S. in the 1970s, resulting from Rockefeller's globalist policies.

Since the 1960s, the expansion of Rockefeller's worldwide free trade agreements have been less favorable to U.S. workers. Imported goods such as steel cost much less to produce in Third World countries (china) with cheap foreign labor

Beginning with the recession of 1970–71, a new pattern of deindustrializing economy emerged.
Nixon/Rockefeller China project went to full swing in the 1980s.

Nixons China policy resulted in gradual expansion of the U.S. trade deficit with China in the 1980s. In the ensuing years the U.S. developed a massive trade deficit with the East Asian nations of China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. As a result, the traditional manufacturing workers in the region have experienced economic upheaval. This effect has devastated government budgets across the U.S and increased corporate borrowing to fund retiree benefits

They are expensive for you, the average citizen, but profitable to many capitalists. Wars are also a way for the american national bourgeois to reiterate their hegemony.

Forever I guess, you're fucking USA not some small african country. Worst case you just nuke who is asking for debt solving.

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>implying China would be colonizing the planet without the help of US and Nixon/R'feller since the 70s
Rockefeller/Nixon literally created superpower China and the US continued to transfer the wealth and future of the west to China
would china be what it is today solely based on china's abilities and without western transfer of wealth and technology?

US is China's greatest ally. if it was not for the US, China would still be a country based on subsistence farming.
US literally created superpower China...
Nixon/Rockefeller birthed superpower China and the US continued to transfer the wealth and future of the west to China
china would not be what it is today solely based on china's abilities and without western transfer of wealth and technology

China's rise was due to a transfer of wealth from the west.

>murica transfer of wealth/technology/industry to poor rural china
>murica create power strong china
>murica claim a strong china a problem
>murica plans on fighting strong china with totalitarian TTP eroding more citizen rights
>not creating a scapegoat to implement totalitarianism

the power brokers transferred:
-literally all the financial funds of US workers to China,
-transferred technology and jobs to China
-hyperinflated the housing so that only the Chinese (recipients of western funds) could afford the housing

the transfer of funds was done involuntarily without the consent of the owners of the funds
the power brokers took western funds sitting in banks and invested all of that in China.

all that wealth transfer was from your pockets. the private funds in bank accounts, the housing assets, the jobs, all transferred by corporate USA without your knowledge or consent...

By about the year 2000 Communist China will be a “superpower” built by American technology and skill
-Sutton 1980
antonysutton.com/suttoninterview.html

"America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones"

As long as the petrodollar works, you got no issue with debt ceilling raise.

Rockefeller birthed superpower China specifically so that his friends could eventually do things like kill Chinese engineers on an airplane so that the Blackstone Group can steal ownership of a Chinese semiconductor patent, as well as waste thousands of paid hours using volunteers and heroes to search for survivors being hidden on purpose.

The war industry has shrinked by many times since the Vietnam war. Levy infantry is a relic of the past, and state commissions are much smaller due to the larger debt and reduced spending.

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>it does not exist in the US.
Retard

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The personal finances system is technically anarchic too, I can borrow from any person or company essencially the same way I borrow form a bank.

It isn't only the Military industrial complex who profits from war. Just keeping the rest of the non-american bourgeois subservient to the American bourgeois is a worthy goal in itself, for them.

the globalist elite were using China/Asia to destroy the US thus enabling them to bring in their NWO / global government. It's the only way they could do it and it almost worked.

end Clinton's decades curse over America for accepting China into the WTO and the surrendering of our technologies to the thieving chinks

the democrats, neoliberals, neocohens, and globalists are in contact with Chinese communist agents, and the big tech liberal technocrats are OPENLY helping China to censor patriots and destroy America and the west

>not knowing how national debt works
jesus christ you people are retarded

> Debt denominated in U.S. Dollars
> Debtor (U.S.A.) gets to dictate the supply of U.S. Dollars

I fail to see what the problem is.

You misunderstood. It's not anarchic because if you borrow and then say "fuck you I'm not paying it back" someone with more guns than you will eventually show up and take you away. That's a hierarchic system. That's not how the international system works. There is no international police force to stop the US from saying "Fuck you, I'm not paying you back."

It is USA who is pushing this NWO. Who is exporting multiculturalism? Who is exporting fag and tranny rights? Who is exporting feminism?

>soros, neoohens, liberals
yes, but specifically, the globalists (neocohens, liberals, trotskists..., banksters). remember that the US was once anti-lusotropicalism, when it was still Anglo. lusotropicalism is latin multicultism and predecessor to modern globalism. mutt multicultism is just neo-lusotropicalism

The corporations left on Nixon's watch and wages grew stagnant in murica

Today’s wealth inequality is a return to the Gilded Age. In 1928, the economic divide was large: The bottom 90 percent of Americans earned 50.7 percent of all pretax income, while the top 1 percent earned 23.9 percent, according to research by Berkeley economist Emmanuel Saez. The Great Depression and World War II acted as equalizers, and by 1944, the bottom 90 percent earned 67.5 percent of income, while the top 1 percent earned just 11.3 percent.

But that relative equality started to morph again in the 1970s and by 2012, the bottom 90 percent accounted for just 49.6 percent of all pretax income, while the top 1 percent held 22.5 percent.

Globalization made it easier for companies to offshore the type of jobs that once paid a good wage in America.

Pretty much coincides with military strength/projection. They figured this shit out during the Revolutionary War, where the US Govn't issued IOUs to soldiers and it worked. They've been doing it ever since.

The moral of the story is that a nation's currency is as strong as the military that backs it.

Keynesian economics is a cancer that will lead to a collapse not of Nations but individuals as the money gets devalued to infinity and the people become nothing more than resource to be sucked dry to create a bond that represents the collective bargaining "GDP" to allow even greater devaluation of the individual and small business for big corporation and government body effectively sleep walking everyone to a "soft" communism/authoritarian regime where your life style will not suddenly change but the mobility of economic classes and the existence of it will slowly erode into nothing more than rulers and servant basically what we are witnessing is the ultimate boomerang effect back to feudalism lead in the name of Marxism. Economics of course don't understand this because they use logic and hard evidence and the government when operating in the principles of Keynesian economics operates in a authoritarian backed collective liquidation of emotional value

USSR was a military super power, at one point. Their severe debt collapsed the economy and then lost 40 million in population from 1990-2010.

Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Bush were pushing our nation into financial, social, and political ruin. They were driving America into poverty and third world nationhood. They knew that transferring industry to Asia was treasonous and that $500 billion trade deficits were non sustainable-but did nothing to stem the outflow of our industries and wealth.

Outsourcing Europe and Japan, and the development of China.

After WWII, the US was the only developed country with a fully functioning economy. US supply set world supply, giving US employers incentives to pay workers well, and giving workers themselves a lot of power. For 25 years, Western European economies grew at a breakneck pace to reach a similar level of development as ourselves. By 1970, they were able to compete with us in the global marketplace. They were joined in competition by the Japanese and Koreans in the 80's, the Chinese in the 90's, and other developing countries in the present day.

We gave our enemies our industries and started to collapse as a result.

>lower now than it was some time before
>growth

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>Iceland however, with a gross national product of one herring and eve online

I kek'd

Poorfag here, I maxed all my credit cards an plan to default on the Jew. Kek. At this point IDGAF about my credit. Anything I can do to hurt the Jew.

Eve online has one of the best game mechanics of any mmorpg I've ever played next to my all-time favorite of Ultima Online back in the day.

Until the last boomer dies a comfortable death in front of their choice of CNN or FOX

I mean obviously it's a little bit more complicated than pushing people's shit in - unless of course you want to dispense with the schizoid domestic / foreign policy narrative that insists you're spreading freedom and democracy when you invade other countries to set up vassal regimes - but that would end up getting used against you by your own populaces.

Plus in an age of nuclear weapons pushing someone's shit in is likely just going to get everyone covered in shit.

Much better to reform the financial system so it's not set up in the way it is now with a private monopoly acting as the world's reserve and able to siphon surplus from everyone else - if nothing else because that siphoning is starting to happen to people within your own country as the number of people outside the tent getting pissed on by the few inside is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Or am I wrong?

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The globalists have an existing 500 year old model that they base their policies off of-- lusotropicalism aka brazilification.

Anglo-America and Latin America were once polar opposites. The former was racially protective of the Anglo stock and was a leader in technology, science, stability, quality of life, and prosperity. The latter was racially immoral and was a leader in poverty, corruption, barbarity, depravity, primitiveness, and crime. Yet, the savages of the third world did not go extinct, since they had Anglos to leech and parasite off of, and Yiddish elite of Brazil have only benefited from an enslaved population of mongrel cavepeople.

The Yiddish elite of former Anglo nations since the Brazil model of their cousins as a success that must be applied to former Anglo nations.

Holy shit. That is some next level reddit spacing.

70% of wealthy families loose it all within 2 generations

In order for shit to hit the fan, people would have to be willing to dump US Dollars. This is prevented by a number of factors:
*US Dollar status as reserve currency. There just isn't a replacement, and in recent years, US Dollar share of reserve currencies has risen, not fallen.
*US Dollar as petro-currency. Many countries transact in dollars to buy and sell oil exclusively. This is made easier by the fact that the dollar is the world's foremost (only?) reserve currency and the fact that...
*US runs trade and budgetary deficits. There is a reason for this: people want US dollars. We have funded growth worldwide with our dollar, and these countries depend on our dollar being stable. The cycle goes: we purchase goods and services from overseas, and they funnel the money which cannot be invested efficiently into US government bonds and other assets.
Finally, if we ever got close to default (for whatever reason) we would not default. We have the ability to produce as much of the world's reserve currency as we please. It will never happen, until the factors listed above all change.

Good question OP.

It appears to me that the amount of debt, as in the actual number, has no real limit. For there to be a limit there would have to be a limit to America's power, and there doesn't seem to be.

To reach a point where the USA can't issue more debt would be something like the end of the USA, amd that would seem to be a very long way off.

I’ve had this happen in sim city. It’s a fucking nightmare.

The economics of the neoliberal era had a fundamental flaw.

The 1920s roared with debt based consumption and speculation until it all tipped over into the debt deflation of the Great Depression. No one realised the problems that were building up in the economy as they used an economics that doesn’t look at private debt, neoclassical economics.

Same economics, same problem, globally.

The massive debt load hanging above our heads has not receded or gone away it has merely been transferred to the public sector where those in charge of such things feel it is more benign. By a series of off-book and backdoor transactions those in charge have transferred the burden of loss from the banks onto the shoulders of the people, however, shifting the liability from one sector to another does not alleviate the problem.

You may not like it, but it's always been craponomics.

It was corrupted at birth to hide the discoveries of the Classical economists.

They had realised most at the top of society were parasites living off the hard work of everyone else, an idle rentier class.

The early neoclassical economists hid the problems of rentier activity in the economy by removing the difference between “earned” and “unearned” income and they conflated “land” with “capital”.

They also took the focus off the cost of living, which had been so important in Classical Economics.