Fake Science: PSYCHOLOGY Edition

what disagreements do you have with psychologists?

>it would be better if psychologists could have an attitude that what they are saying might be wrong
I thought when you said "something does not have to be real to be true" that you were trolling, or just indoctrinated.

While the attitude you present is the proper attitude (always questioning your knowledge bases), Hayek is right when he says that socialists love economic planning because it puts them in charge. Same with psychologists. And I don't believe it possible for those clinging to junk science to admit that they wasted their life believing in lies- they'd have to admit they've elevated lies to the status of gods.

I have a problem with how much influence certain ideas coming from that field have over society because they are taught as being real.

dsm-manual style psychiatry is one of the most pernicious influences in the modern world. it's a system of social control and engenders nothing but ignorance as people forego introspective self-life-analysis and resort immediately to magic pills to remove the troubling thoughts and feels rather than facing them and reaching positive conclusions, making healthy changes, etc.

do not get yourself diagnosed with anything if you know what's good for you. deal with your mental life, with your inner thoughts and feelings, by thinking to yourself and talking deeply with loved ones and friends. there are good psychiatric doctors out there who understand this and don't immediately rush to medications but they know that most people just want a quick fix magic pill.

>what disagreements do you have with psychologists?
False premises. That instincts exist. Instincts don't exist (reflexes and taxis do), just like Gods don't. Both are used to cover up for incomplete knowledge.

did you just say subconscious action is not possible?
The act of pedaling a bike or driving a car is subconscious. The conscious act is the direction.
I do not think about pedaling or microsteering my car. Many actions take place automatically so the brain has room to make other conscious actions.

the standard daily/regular "interview" length between a psychiatric ward patient and the doctor is less than 5mins. it's a case of people going in, self-diagnosing with memes, seeking a specific medication, doctor approving the prescription.

>I have a problem with how much influence certain ideas coming from that field have over society because they are taught as being real.
I second this. Especially considering that unis admit ABSOLUTE idiots...and then proceed to graduate them.

>did you just say subconscious action is not possible?
No. My "claim" proceeds to the next line's "and."

>Our civilization represses not only 'the instincts', not only sexuality, but any form of transcendence. Among one-dimensional
men,* it is not surprising that someone with an insistent experience of other dimensions, that he cannot entirely deny or forget, will run the risk either of being destroyed by the others, or of betraying what he knows.
r.d laing

>In the context of our present pervasive madness that we call normality, sanity, freedom, all our frames of reference are ambiguous and equivocal.

I agree. many non reproducible studies are lauded as breaking science.
instead of actual units(praxeology uses meme utils) psychology uses correlations and significant effects.
since psychology typically uses n>100 for good studies it is a probabilistic unit. Do you deny quantum mechanics since it is probabilistic?

exactly, you cannot treat a mental disorder with medications when the diagnoses are based on behavior. It is just covering up a 'symptom' of what is oftentimes nothing at all. It is a problem when neither party understands this

Decrease it 100%, why even have any scientific disorders. Everyone is healed! A blessed miracle.

>The act of pedaling a bike or driving a car is subconscious. The conscious act is the direction.
False dilemma. Consciousness is a spectrum.
>Many actions take place automatically
Not automatically, you're just not aware of them.
>so the brain has room to make other conscious actions.
Analogies are not valid unless you understand the mechanics of the compared processes.

quantum mechanics isnt real either, it is a model. I will not deny apllications in psychology or quantum mechanics, but with psychology in particular there is a problem with how things are treated

>people go in, self-diagnose with memes, SEEKING a specific medication, doctor approving the prescription.
Holy shit, psychiatry BTFO!

>correaltions
Correalations to correlations. Psychology needs a paradigm shift.

wow, i love science now!

>believing science decreasing mental illness is a bad thing
Because wanting to chop off your own dick is perfectly healthy and sane.

I consciously choose to act to breath while sleeping?
elaborate on how I consciously choose to breath during sleep.
I can consciously choose to breath if I want while awake but that is not the question.

you have not said a specific beef with psychology. elaborate.

to?

The inconvenient truth is that at this point all science published in journals must pass through a review board of majority leftists. While this isn't a big issue for most sciences which are apolitical (eg chemistry, biochemistry), we will never see any studies actually addressing genetics and violence, homosexuality, etc because those studies can't be funded or published. However, there will always be government funding available for diversity benefit studies and other bullshit reviewed by (((experts))) and irrefutable without lost of credibility and funding.

psychology before mid 20th century (((WWII))) was pretty goddam legit in america. for a brief, shining moment, psychology genuinely advanced human knowledge (shit like conditioning, schematic processing). the problem isn't the discipline, its the cultural marxist infiltration. they destroyed it because it was powerful. dsm is cancer.

>I consciously choose to act to breath while sleeping?
Another false dilemma. One has both reflexive and conscious control of breathing.

>what's your problem with psychology?
False premises. That the mind is like a mechanical object- X in, Y out.

People have worldviews and motives. Psychologists do also, but they're not honest with themselves.

>psychology genuinely advanced human knowledge (shit like conditioning, schematic processing
Conditioning is not what you think. It's inducing beliefs (about hte world), not conditioning reflexes.

LIke I said, paradigm shift required.

some people need a psychologist to tell them this because psychology is supposed to be an objective science

This. Government Science (science funded and/or approved by government) is not real science.

>it will never happen outside the real sciences
AIDS has been being pushed for decades.
>vaccine?
No
>purified the virus
No
>consistency in effects and treatments
No

AIDS is a political invention, and is doing what all political inventions do: wreaking missery.

>people seek authority
True. And this is why psychology will stay- the crazies will not stand for blasphemy towards their god.

>paradigm shift to?
From the mind as a mechanical object (like a car) to an electrical object whose circuits cannot (by virtue of size/complexity) be understood- at least not at current.

>no science about homos/blacks/violence
This is a prejudice free space. Take your hate somewhere else!

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>consciousness is a spectrum
>there are reflexive and conscious actions
define this spectrum.
Humanities are not claimed to be an objective science neither is most economics

It is a soft science, it can't follow the scientific method, so they just sorta wing it best they can. I will give them some credit as they did pretty decent with what they had but since it is soft and not a hard science, people can just start injecting politics and feels into it. Eventually neuroscience will take over but it is still in its infancy and while they claim to know so much about the brain, they keep finding out shit isn't as easy as they thought.

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Psychologist do not believe the brain is mechanical object like a car.
They use statistics to make generalizations out of a sample which can then be used to explain a population.

Reflexes are not a conscious phenomena.

>economics is not objective science
"Money is not the only currency." -Ayn Rand
Means and ends are always considered, no matter the currency in which one trades.

>psychologists don't believe the mind is a mechanical object like a car
>they simply make predictions based on mechanical analogies comparing humans to cars

>Eventually neuroscience will take over
While I applaud your seeking a new god, you still seek a false god. But as an early adopter, at least you could be part of the clergy.

Psychology has actual units. Chemicals in your blood stream. Also neurons form networkslike computer code. You wouldnt tell a programmer that his computer science isnt science.
You just have ass burgers.

The problem is that psychological research is dominated by jews, because they know that the principals they learn can be used in a powerful way.

>Units of psychology are chemicals in blood
Take your pills, Goyim!

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yeah but lemme get at all that psych 100 ass amirite??

>Praxeology
innumerate detected

Most of the social sciences are pseudo-sciences right now. It's not exactly that they're fake, but they're at the point medicine was at around 500 years ago. Things will continue to develop.

You're missing the point. Psychology cannot develop.

This. Fake science is meant for thots

I disagree that it's all fake, but it is tightly regulated what gets researched. AIDS research is legit, it's just a total waste of money for the US government because its not a significant health problem here. If NGOs or foreign governments want to fund it that's fine.

Peterstein should know that the clinical trials of antidepressants show they are only *slightly* better than placebo.

About as effective as drilling holes in people's heads to "let the demons out" - may be better than nothing for some people.

>Psychology has actual units. Chemicals in your blood stream.
Psychologists are in no way qualified to assess or treat anything related to blood chemistry, and would be at risk of losing their license and professional accreditation if they attempted to do so. You're thinking of psychiatry.

I remember taking a mandatory psychology class, one of those with 200+ students. Professor asked how many were psych majors, about 3/4 or more of the class were. That was probably one of a dozen classes too.
I would have dropped that major seeing so many in an already crowded field

No one cares about Greek homos

Aren't they pushers of meds?

State endorsed drugs are good though!

Psychiatrists treat those who are irregular, which is defined by plebes

the main enemies psychology tries to combat

drug addiction, impulsive thoughts and behaviors-
drug addiction has been on the rise ever since heroin and opium got introduced

peoples views on the mentally ill- getting better, but they should address reaction formation responses to these types of things e.g, white guilt

having good sex- this is kinda 10 steps forward 8 steps back kinda thing

given: to combat these issues we must understand these issues.
many people have understood these issues and have turned it to their whims.
and the result you have now is all those preditory practises marketers have to sell products.

while keeping them as "secret jewish tricks" would definitly not be good, i do believe more respect and care must be taken to study psychology. maybe entrust psychology practise and research to a priest class, like greek and roman schools of philosophy, the cult of pythagoras, monastic orders not unlike early christian, as well as bhuddist traditions.

i see it going in that direction now though esp with current mindful based therapies like dbt.

>Tries
They're using the wrong tools. The right tool would be used against the state.

What about radical behaviorism? Skinner went out of his way to outright deny congnition and only do studies using operant conditioning where the effects of the enviroment could be emperically measured.

>Cognition
ITT we use 'ratiocination'

You can't do ANYTHING in psychology without a Master's in counseling. To be a psychologist, you need a doctorate. Like

wrong.

>it can't follow the scientific method
wut

Sounds like fun

Psychology is real. I don't know if it's a science. It's more like weaponized common sense.

It can be cushy. I just looked up jobs on Indeed, which isn't exactly a source for great jobs. I saw multiple that are in the $130,000 range. You can probably make a significant amount more with your own practice.

Most degrees are shit desu.
>Be medicine and neuroscience double major
>Psychologists try to tell me my ideas are wrong because they don't consider emotion
>Sociologists try to tell me my ideas are wrong because they don't consider social constructs and PCness
>Gender students try to tell me my ideas are wrong because they don't consider minority impact
>Economists try to tell me my ideas are wrong because they don't consider the economy
Even a Ph.D. in a non-STEM field can't hold a candle to the monolithic objectivity of the humble STEM batchelor. My biology, and other peoples' chemistry, physics, and mathematics, do not fold and conform to social factors, economy, and pathos.

It is a failure as a field because it pretends to be more than it is and it attempts to classify things more strictly than it has any need to. I have read studies proving that it feels good to be happy and make no mistake, this is typical.

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There is real science, but it doesn't do what people think it does. It doesn't study human behavior to help them, but to control them. Look into MK Ultra.

mainstream psychology will never approach real science because it hits too close to home. Just look at how quickly most people will reject MK Ultra.

The actual science is scary, scientism is fun!

MK Ultra mainly combines formulas of pain, trauma, fear, sex, different drugs, and hypnosis.

It was also as mundane as repetition and subliminal messages in advertising. Psychology used in advertising and CONVINCING people that they probably need medication is a very real and practical application of psychology. Proving that happiness feels good and that children have ADHD is not.

But Medicine is a technique, not a science. Medicine is as much as a technique as engineering is to math / physics. Medicine cares for usefulness and effectiveness in combating / preventing diseases. If you got cancer out of nowhere, your doctor won't wait around for the newest publication of health magazine with the new hypothesis on the causes of cancer; he will just try a bunch of practical shit and hope any of it works.

The problem of most sciences now in days is the fact that they try to come up with bogus theoretical claims from statistical insights, forgetting that even if you could figure out all the parameters that would enable you to understand a certain phenomena (which can only be done once a theory has been fully developed), all that statistics can tell you is the CURRENT STATE of a certain phenomena, and not the CAUSE of it.

Knowing that a coin has a statistical chance of being in either the state of heads or tails tells me nothing about the causes of that happening, even less about the nature of the coin.

With all that being said, psychology is still goofy as fuck.

The economists are correct, often a person's financial state or lack thereof influences his psychological condition. The whacky psychologists are right for a change, emotions are a real component of life, don't be so autistic man.

so ignoring the rest of your post

>medicine is a technique effective in combatting disease
I have a belief that many social issues are a direct result of psychology. For example, ADHD is a condition which has come to blame children for a failure of education and has exacerbated these failures (also in general all modern psychological diagnosis seem to ignore their theoretical origins such as schizophrenia becoming a condition rather than a broad spectrum of atypical experiences and behaviors). Would you say that prescribing medications to combat psychiatric conditions is a good and practical application of psychology in the same vein as medicine?

Everything after 1850 us garbage.

youtube.com/watch?v=AISyO6hR_fI

is

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>I have a belief that many social issues are a direct result of psychology. For example, ADHD is a condition which has come to blame children for a failure of education and has exacerbated these failures
I feel like this is not necessarily a problem of psychology, but of their popularization and glamourization in pop culture.

Im not claiming that psychology is actually a sound science, at least not for now. Psychology is still considerably a new field which is still developing and, because of that, still prone to a lot of bullshit.

The biggest problem of psychology is obviously the methodology. Trying to value psychology through the means of natural sciences tends to be ineffective, because you obviously cannot use quantitative measurements on a science that is a priori qualitative.

But i feel that we always have to separate the clinical practice of psychology from the theoretical assumptions of it. A case can be made for the usefulness of certain treatments, even if the theories continue to be bogus (just as in most of modern science, to be fair), but in general, most of what works in psychology comes indirectly from objective techniques developed in such fields as psychiatry (since the scope of it is pretty much objective, even if the causes might be subjective).

So, to answer your question:
>Would you say that prescribing medications to combat psychiatric conditions is a good and practical application of psychology in the same vein as medicine?
It depends. Is the diagnosis sound (since a lot of psychological diseases are bullshit) and the prescribed medications effective in treating the problem? Sure, go for it.

The clinical and the theoretical grounds of a science don't need to be in agreement with each other. The theories of modern physics are complete bullshit, but it's empirical data and instruments for measurement are pretty sound, for example.

I mostly agree with you. To be clear, I dont think ADHD as a concept is at fault, rather I think that it's realization in the majority of people is the real issue. I would also not say that giving a schizophrenic a tranquilizer in order to decrease suffering (my personal opinion) is a bad idea, though I think it must be acknowledged that the condition does not exist beyond referring to a broad spectrum of atypical experiences. I would, however, say that certain medications such as Adderall or Ritalin, which are common ADHD medications, are known to improve performance in certain areas across the board. If medications which improve performance always improve performance (at least in the short term) would it be ethical to prescribe them to everyone, or should it be reserved for people who test as (((ADHD))). It is the same for antidepressants mind you, they make everyone happier.

You mean psychiatry, surely

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>You mean psychiatry, surely
Both. Except psychiatry is useful in neutralizing crazies. But somehow Trump still elected

I agree. The probability density functions used to understand electrons are just a model to get traction on the problem in the absence of something more precise. There may ultimately be processes at the quantum level we just don't know about and this is what prevents us from implementing a deterministic model.

Mfw Regan letting conspiratards out of asylums is equal to Democrats letting criminals out of prisons

Physicists have the decency to admit they're working on models, giving the ability to create new models without the community throwing fits.

While the experience of paranoia is indisputable and paranoid delusions (though generally unrelated to paranoia in a literal sense) are real, they are very different from conspiratorial thinking. I know this isnt what youre saying at all, I just think that paranoia is an excellent example of a failure in psychology as a field. Originally paranoia referred to the experience of fear more or less. The feeling that people are out to get you which may be identified by the delusions and behaviors this feeling propagates. This isnt how it is anymore. Due to how DSM diagnostics works, paranoia is largly lost as an experience. It is now a name given to certain behaviors independent of context. This is how all diagnosis are now.

>Praxeology

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>autistically looking for first causes is any better

It is true that psychology is in replication crysis now. About half of its findings failed to be replicated. However there is other half that can be replicated. I believe scientific psychology is possible. Prestigious journals just need to stop publishing research with small statistical significance.