Should Email count as working?
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if you're providing a service to your company you should be paid for it. I would never work for free.
Yes
or just don't email while commuting. but you shouldn't email for free.
Yeah. But you shouldn't be paid for being on facebook in works time.
So much idiocy destined in this thread, you know some of us enjoy our job, right? My job is more interesting and enjoyable than plenty of strategy games.
Counting sending emails as working isn't relevant. The relevant issue is employers expecting their employees to do work or otherwise contribute to the company while not being paid and that activity not being laid out in any contract.
Reading emails while on the way to work could arguably be acceptable (if you're in a large company you might have several other teams in different parts of the world working 24/7, so it's reasonable you might want to spend some time orienting yourself to what happened earlier), but emailing a menial worker with bullshit at 2 AM is not on and should be penalized.
I had a boss that used to send email at all hours day and night, often times changing schedules and issuing requests at last minute. If you didn't respond or didn't read it, you were reprimanded even if it was sent at 3am. I half suspect that poo was issuing so much work via email to get around having to pay hourly wages. Time is money.
yes
my gf always complains about having to reply to coworkers emails and texts during our commute. im all for it if it stops the complaining
if it's your job, I don't see why not. I would rather listen to music instaed of mailing anyone on a tiny screen
if you're mailing stacy to ask what she's wearing - no
Most of the people who have jobs that require this kind of commitment are working on Salary or Commission. So their time has already been paid for, and its simply a matter of meeting the deadline.
sniffing petrol is not appealing to us, bro
I'm aware of some of the more senior engineers in my field who pretty much have an open policy of "i don't read my emails, if you've sent me one that's important then call me to male sure I read it". They have to because they're copied into so many BS email chains and get sent every little detail that if they actually read them all then that would be half of their time gone each day just catching up.
this, but old fucks are generally bad at organizing their inboxes, so it can look really overwhelming and lead to them missing a lot
i keep a .pst for every project and a subfolder for every job/issue. My inbox is my to-do list and is ideally empty, but realistically has three or four active things to be knocked out. Gotta stay on top of that shit and aggressively sort.
What is a salary?
Reminds me of my old job. One of my colleagues asked the boss if he could just stay home and do his job and boss agreed as long as his quota is met.
Some people got fucking angry and their only argument was what if he manage to do all his work by wednesday.
This article is written by them.
Should I get paid for thinking my work on free time. What about when I wake up at night and open laptop? Actually I get paid for it every month.
It's the problem of the idiot working for free. Either you don't work on your own time or you work on your so you can allocate some naps while on the clock. These "victims" need to stand in fron of the train.
Timesheets are pretty hard to do anyway. Billing clients for work performed of course includes emails. But it is very hard to write up 4 time entries for 4 clients each stating “15min emails”. That would be thrown back in your face.
The problem is that in a lot of professional work the job is essentially open-ended (you could always be doing more/better) and really based around hassle and stress. Reading an email is not in itself a burden, having to respond to complex and annoying stuff from clients apart from when you are asleep is hell. Its been a slow creep towards this and its not OK.
I think in fairness they've started to be a bit self-conscious on this score but it was quite common to hear from "leaning in" women about they'd go in late, leave early and then start work again late at night, get the laptop out and start emailing and demanding to Skype with colleagues. Which basically makes everyone else's day 18 hours long. Sacrifice like that is fine for your kids, but they aren't anyone else's kids.
I work from 7-4:30, but answer phone & email from 6-6, because the people I oversee are scattered all over & that's just how it goes.
My hourly pay is from 7-4:30, but my employer compensates me by giving me additional days off, quarterly bonuses, and a year end bonus. These are just by a verbal agreement, so if they ever stop, I'll just stop answering the phone & emails.
I worry about automated personal transportation for exactly this reason. For those folks that can actually get something done outside of just communication while remote, I worry that the expectation will crop up. Like said, make sure there's an agreement of any sort in place.
If posting "content" on youtube is a career nowadays, sure why not. Emails are hard work.
I should get paid every time i take a shit, being a job creator and whatnot.
Of all the fucking bullshit neopeasants put up with daily its fucking hilarious what random ass things actually bother them. Oh, they 100% fine with their master taking 95% of the value of their production, while living lower quality lives then cavemen and working twice as hard, but fuck they want their pennies for their emails while been trucked around like cattle. Fucking neopeasants, lmao. Glad I'm not poor, I own my own freedom and am not a wage slave subject to some corporation.
Its been a slow slide. Most people do a bit of unpaid overtime, it might be argued to be built into the pay structure somewhere. Jobs that traditionally had an on-call element paid some sort of premium for that one way or another (considering being on-call requires you to adjust your choices even if the call never comes, e.g., be sober, be near a car, be relatively near work etc).
But adding this drip-drip-drip of work outside the workplace is getting ridiculous and dangerous. For some people its not an issue, they aren't operating at a level where there is much stress associated with it, they aren't really getting communications from big hitters anyway, but if you are, its becoming an absolute nightmare.
Surprised how many cucks there are who think this is OK. Perhaps they should go the whole hog and move back into a segregated factory dorm and accept seeing their wives at church is about the best you can hope for these days.
Rebiewbrah didn’t deserve to be treated like that
Working for nothing has been exploding for a while now. College has become useless as if you don't train and work for free (internship) you lack experience to break into many fields and industries as is. The system has bred these ideas that we should just bend over and accept it, and a lot of people are doing just that.
Really, how it this any different from pre-internet (even pre-telephone) when people brought their work home with them and continued preparations for current and future projects?
As expected of any article in present-day MSM, nothing remotely insightful about the issue and no ideas about what (if anything) to do about it.
>he gets paid by the amount of hours put in and by the end product of his work
Plebs like you are never gonna make it
thats why you bill 1 hour minimum when you're offshift. If you work pro-bono that's because you're a bad negotiator. If your laziness is worth not doing work to keep track of how valuable you are, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
jacobitemag.com
Read this.
TLDR Capitalism is forcing the acceleration of society quicker than it can adapt. Why is this relevant to the question in the OP? It is only tangentially relevant, but knowledge should be proliferated on the manner.
You would be surprised how much time all that meticulous filing actually consumes. Email is fucking cancer. It used to be ok but it’s out of control. I don’t even work in a big company and I get 200 a day, 75% of which aren’t even for me.
It will likely get worse.
I have a work phone, I turn it on when I arrive at work and turn it off the second I leave. Easy.
When I'm not at work I'm not available for any work related requests.
It does if you aren't working a dead end job where not being fired is your only accomplishment.
What does it matter? Unless you're some low level nobody you're getting a salary and generally don't get overtime. If you can answer some emails on the train or while waiting for your flight then it just makes your life easier than have them all pile up.
>working somewhere you're expected to keep contact when you're not at work
Lol, welcome to the 2010s dumbass.
All big companies now give free new iPhones/service etc. tables/laptops just so that you can stay connected 24/7. Any big professional company has been doing this for a while. It's the latest jew trick.
In the IT field when you're responsible for mission critical uptime you are expected to be available 24/7. Stop complaining you fucking office jockey HR thots. Oh NOOOO I had to reply to a fucking email. Boohoo nigger. Try waking up in the middle of the night to 1000 outage alerts, logging to your VPN and working through the morning trying to restore data arrays so the company can conduct business. Fucking office wagies are pathetic cucks.
no.
>if you do more work at home there will be less work to do once you actually get to work
lol
why commute if you can do your work by email, offices are shit
Why would you check work email outside work hours? I don't.
if you are paid by the hour, then yes
I work for a B4 consulting firm. It functions basically as a law firm, every minute I spend on a client is billable. A set percentage of time I am "working" needs to be allocated to a client, usually 90%+. Thus if I am responding to an email, I am literally creating value for my company and yet I am not supposed to consider this work? That's fucking retarded.
The 24/7 always online trend is really dangerous. During "busy season" I have done 100+ hour weeks all at the same time trying to juggle the hundreds of emails that can come during the same period. Probably 10-15 hours of my "40 hour" week is spent reading, sorting and responding to emails. Some of which I do at 2am on a Saturday morning. This is the new normal of this generation sadly.
then do it for free, fag
Can confirm
t. Enterprise level storage engineer
If I'm off the clock I don't check my work email accounts and I don't answer my work phone. Havent for 10 years and despite bitching there's nothing the higherups can do about it.
Of course. Every email sent generates replies, and those generate more replies. It’s like a nuclear reaction. We have started using chat a lot more for quick things, the time to finish a conversation is much lower and ccing people who don’t really need to be in on it is reduced. Downside of chat is searching for old information is harder, and people get annoyed at lack of response more quickly because it’s a real-time service.
this.
i used to work with a bunch of black people in a warehouse in college. whenever a manager or supervisor chewed them out about anything, they would just stare at them without blinking with this stupid glazed look in their eyes, like they were listening but not registering anything they were saying. i do the same thing now if somebody bitches about me not answering emails over the weekend (which i tend to check once a day at 10am or so) or evenings (i stop looking at emails around 7pm)
Considering that replying to emails takes a considerable amount of work hours, I can understand that.
I work as project management / system integration in an IT department and get cced into so much shit that has nothing to do with me daily. That being said it takes a minute to read an email to know of its important and I make sure I read over everything because the minute you don't something will fly under the radar.
But fuck that our of hours shit my phone gets turned off once I walk out the door, I usually have a quick scan white eating breakfast just so I know what I'm walking into but I'm not gonna cry about getting paid for it
Ideally your org is big enough to have a rotating on call for that so everyone gets a break, or outsource some of that stuff to someone who is big enough.
>posting on 4chin during business hours
tuttutut
What can I say I'm a terrible human bean
what field
>guys look I'm actually doing important work on my phone GIB MORE MONEYS PLZ
Nobody cares that you chose a shitty job, nerd.
>work consists of doing early morning emails
>paid hourly
hmm
I drive my car to work.
It should be to the discretion of the worker. Ethically it feels wrong to me to have checking email count as work unless I am signifcantly contributing to the project im working on. Even then I dont count those 10 to 20 minutes as work since thats pretty insiginficant. If you have to spend an hour+ replying to emails and communicating to help your business then sure that may count.
Of course, it is not a pastime, it is fucking annoying to answer your colleagues/boss/client about something dumb. Your work time is over, you are tired and grumpy but if you don't answer some dumb colleague could not finish his lazy work and will complain about you / you look like a bad employee / the client will fill a complaint because nobody answer his dumb question in the 10minutes after he sent his email.
Isn't this up to employer?
I've got two people up for promotion. One of them emails while commuting and never says a word about it. The other constantly whines how they should be paid more for any email sent while not in the office.
Obviously I promote the whiner because the one thats doesn't complain is a fucking white male.
>White male
Lol you should just fire him, it's easy for him to find a job give it to some negro who needs work.
This.
Just tell them that if it's something really important they actually have to call you. This weeds out about 95% of people hassling you outside work hours because calling someone is seen as a more severe invasion of privacy than sending someone an email (and expecting him to read it).
Especially the younger generation. They are almost afraid of using the phone.
If it is work-related, of course. I always turn my work cell phone off when I am done for the day, if they want me to use my phone during non-working hours they will have to upgrade my contract and pay me.
Don't understand the appeal of cell phones. Tiny screens, looks seriously cucked. Glad I'm not beaming myself with EM radiation everyday.
>Glad I'm not beaming myself with EM radiation everyday.
you do realize that literally colors are EM radiation
If its something that is required for work then yes its work
>retards who downloaded the corporate application to have corporate emails on their phone complain they are now doing more work off work hours
Yeah of course retards. That’s the point of the app. That’s why you don’t download that shit and you tell people you don’t have a corporate cell.
Millennial love to show how hard they work but they still have no clue how to work smart.
This. Fuck people trying to push for government or society getting involved in this decision. It's between the god damn employee and their employer.
The fact that some employers expect everyone to have a smart phone and exploits that fact
should earn the employee compensation. Some people don't have unlimited data plans. I do, but I'm more pissed about the expectations.
>Company has an app to clock in from, for people working from home
>Clock in every morning when I leave the house, and proceed to read e-mails
I don’t work for free, and I might as well get some work done instead of staring at the head of some roastie in front of me.
Unfortunately as you see in this thread a lot of people are too young and I suspect too incel to really understand the issue.
9-5 used to actually mean 9-5, try calling at 8.55 or 5.05 and you'd get nothing. That was the pattern of work on which pay patterns were originally set. The slow drift has a huge impact on quality of family life in the long term. If you are going to complain about divorcee single mothers and feral children you need to care about shit like this too.
The sheer idiocy of the pampered millennial stooge. Enjoy your Foxconn dorm bunk you fucking idiot.
>Enjoy your Foxconn dorm bunk
cringiest larp i've ever seen
Sounds like an issue for companies to handle individually.
If you want to solve this issue, the solution is to make companies have to compete harder for labor by making it easier to start a competing company by reducing regulation.
and also to end the Fed
I don't work when not getting paid for it.
I'm a wage cuck and not allowed to send work emails when I'm off the clock. If you're salaried, then you have nothing to complain about with sending emails while commuting.
I had some open borders libertarian try to argue that you should work for free to seem valuable compared to slave wages that open borders creates.
This explains why Somalia is a superpower and Norway a backwater.
Oh wait.
Based swiss
You could always do what one programmer I know does, force all people emailing him to use specific tags so he can auto-sort it and inform them if they don't use the correct tags it'll be sent to the trash.
you still shouldn’t do it for free brainlet
No human would ever settle for this, only a chink.
Who cares, most people who work in white collar jobs where you're expected to do this kind of shit are paid a fixed salary and are not paid by the hour anyway.
Ethically it feels wrong for me to be expected to do work outside of work, no matter how small.
People have to settle for what they have to settle for. You think this didn't used to happen in Britain and the US? It isn't like Google and Amazon haven't considered starting to pay people in scrip again.
There is a difference between over-regulation and the regulation needed to produce a functional market both in goods and services but also in labour. Its not an insane idea unless you've had your head filled with Koch.
If I'm dealing with work bullshit, then I'm at work.
Email should count as working, if you're paid by the hour. Instant messaging or office communication software (Slack, etc.) time as well. A lot of people are W-2 Contracting in White Collar work these days, particular in Tech, Broadcast Media, Software Development, etc. People on salary get benefits (vacation, cheap-but-better healthcare plan than mine, more sick days, education credits or funds to pay for outside work-related courses, etc.).
If we're not "friends" outside of work and we are not talking about getting a drink or what games we are gonna play later on the Internet, I'm technically working.
I will charge you - the business owner/contracting agency - and you will pay me. Been doing this for years. Don't like it? Stop fucking bothering me after hours.
If it's not work than what is it? You read emails as leisure?
I get paid for the fact that I am sometimes available off work hours, and so should anyone.
>Company actually uses a "clock-in app" when you work from home
Your job sucks, and is probably in Europe.
The labor laws here in Norway strongly favors the worker. So whenever I've been instructed to work outside of regular office hours, I'll bill my employer for minimum 2 hours of work.
Even if all I did was receive a text message asking me to read an e-mail.
working from home shouldn't count as work
working from your driverless car shouldn't count as work
if you're not as miserable as every other wagie at the fucking office IT'S NOT WORK!
if you're on salary you aren't paid by the hour.
Mine uses them as well, easy to work from home. You'll understand when you'll have children, how useful it is to call the boss and tell him you're working from home for the day because your son is sick.
I don't consider giving my boss a blow job instead of having lunch "work", so why should e-mail count?
no, just deal with it, fucking workerbee faggots
work for mr goldberg for free