Why did Western Europe/Catholics essentially side with the Ottomans?
Did the Western powers perceive the Eastern Orthodox religion in a similar way to how they perceive Putin and Russia (arguably the successors to Byzantine) today?
Was it a calculated effort for Western Europe to isolate Byzantium because they saw the orthodox leadership as a cancer that needed to be eliminated to "purify" Europe?
This just doesn't make sense.
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Look at that. And /POL claims Muslims don't have superior design and infra.
That's what worshipping a man in a fish hat and paying him to ensure you go to heaven does to you folks, that's Catholicism for ya
Poor bait.
Fuck off and die
How is that a bait? You getting little denial?
>Why did Western Europe/Catholics essentially side with the Ottomans?
That's an oversimplification. There are many instances of Westerners heeding the Byzantines' call for aid.
Granted, the fourth crusade was a gigantic fuck-up.
But I do think that the Catholic Church liked the idea of a monopoly on Christendom. I don't think it's that odd; have two competing powers fight with each other for centuries and when they're weak you can come in and pick up some scraps and clay while your competitors are weakened.
And don't forget that the Byzantines eventually became corrupt as hell, themselves preferring to side with Turks to depose rival pretenders to the empire.
But I did always wonder why the Greeks weren't given back their mainland clay after WW1. I guess the Brits felt that the Turks would be easier to control with regards to the Dardanelles?
Hagia Sofia wasn’t built by Muslims
>And don't forget that the Byzantines eventually became corrupt as hell, themselves preferring to side with Turks to depose rival pretenders to the empire.
when?
"Mosque wasn't built by Muslims"
Are you retarded?
They literally invited the Seljuk turks into Anatolia. I don't remember when, but it was due to some internal politics.
It almost happened during World War 1 but Lenin pulled Russia out of the war.
you took the bait retard
Proof? They even fought them so what are you talking about?
Thousands of Christians should start making pilgrimage there to pray.
>Why did Western Europe/Catholics essentially side with the Ottomans?
France and Bohemia had a rivalry with the Habsburgs, who were set to be the most dominant force in Europe, so the Ottomans were a natural ally because of that
You should know that there wasn't really a European or White identity until the 18th century maybe and by then the Ottoman empire was already in decline
Manzikert. Just read up on the battle and you'll see.
Calvinist here. Liberate Byzantium
The British has always sided with the muslims one way or another.
They used to side with the Iranians as well.
"Better the turban of the Sultan than the Tiara of the Pope" -- some Byzantine nigga
the Greeks were cucked by the Brits post WW1 in like 1922 or something
Brits told the Greeks they'd help them take land and then did fuck all while Greek soldiers died, waited for the Turks to push back then sued for peace
They simply negotiated with them at times, is that what counts as siding with them?
Look up what Andronikos Doukas did to Romanus during the battle of Manzikert. The defeat cost them almost all of Anatolia because of a power move by the rival Doukas family who wanted the throne from Romanus.
And take off your meme-flag or I won't reply to you again.
Some of them were corrupy, but a few people turncoating does not mean the entire byzantine empire sided with the turks
corrupt*
Jealousy, Catholics and their pope wanted to be THE CHURCH. Orthodox/East Rome was heir biggest obstacle. Not only did East Rome not collapse, but it was building great churches and enjoying the superior Christian language (Greek.) Centralized Orthodoxy had to be shattered, and so thats what they did.
These actions basically led to former Catholics saying; wait a minute, this shit is evil. And thus protestants were born as militant anti-Catholics.
Orthodox meanwhile was greatly damaged and lacks centralization. However most Orthodox Churches no longer acknowledge Catholics as Christians.
>Why did Western Europe/Catholics essentially side with the Ottomans?
That's a bit of an exaggeration, there are plenty of examples where Catholics and Orthodox did work together against Muslims (most Crusades, battles of Varna, Nicopolis and many others).
It's just that then, as now, there are people in power that care more about their own personal or local interests than they do about the larger civilization-wide struggle.
>massacre a bunch of Catholics, sell them into slavery to Turks
>let the Muslims in your city live
>anger the strongest naval force in the Mediterranean, actually thinking you can get away with killing their people
Why would you have sympathy for them? I certainly don't, they spent most of their time killing each other rather than fighting foreigners.
>Latins take over state, venetians and Genoans get unfair trade advantages
>extremists rise up, depose the 5th column that was the current imperial dynasty
>somehow this is bad
I bet you advocate for kicking the jews out of western countries too
>they spent most of their time killing each other rather than fighting foreigners.
Exactly. Look, the West was corrupt as fuck back then as well, but some romantics portray Byzantium (ERE) as being some kind of saint-like construct, only to fall because "le ebul westerners" backstabbed them.
This. The Ottomans would enslave you but they would let you keep your religion and some civil rights. The pope will demand you to bow down to him thus selling your soul to the devil.
It was St Kosmas of Aetolia who said that btw.
>Latins take over state, venetians and Genoans get unfair trade advantages
The Venetians were your entire navy, why wouldn't they get "unfair" privileges? Even then they saw your people as arrogant.
>extremists rise up, depose the 5th column that was the current imperial dynasty
That dynasty was the only thing holding your fragile country together. Why should you get sympathy for something that was clearly a bad decision?
>I bet you advocate for kicking the jews out of western countries too
I wouldn't advocate for kicking them out if they controlled the entire U.S. navy.
Well guess what, they own the entire US military m, so I guess they're fine...
And no, if the Latin crusaders didn't help the pretender get the throne in the 4th crusade, the empire could have perhaps healed.
0/10
The Hagia Sophia was built by Justinian as a church. When Constantinople fell, it was repurposed to be a mosque. In 1935, it was made into a museum.
>but they would let you keep your religion and some civil rights.
Muslim deception.
Even the Jewish television admits it's bullshit.
youtu.be
gay jew
dont forget Constatinople was rich as fuck, with book publishing and statues and gold n' shit while euros had literally nothing but grain and stone bricks
>Well guess what, they own the entire US military m, so I guess they're fine...
They own the U.S. military, but they aren't the ones actually serving in it.
>And no, if the Latin crusaders didn't help the pretender get the throne in the 4th crusade, the empire could have perhaps healed.
Romans/Greeks had a chance to restore their country multiple times, even after the fourth crusade. Why blame foreigners for your leaders poor foresight and governance?
I meant that they wouldn't try to bastardize your orthodoxy unlike the pope. Muslims were muslims and Christians were Christians.
Of course the church was under the boot but this kept us safe from western degeneracies like the enlightement and secularism.
looks pretty rubbish compared to western cathedrals though.
That looks fucking disgusting.
Muhammad pbuh. married a former catholic nun.
The catholic church created islam.
Have a nice day.
Paki
Because for all their supposed racism the fuckers don't seem to have any racial solidarity or even just common sense to see the muslims as a threat. Maybe it did make sense because they saw us as an even bigger threat, I don't know. All I know is they're fucking cunts and centuries later I'm still mad as fuck. What makes me even more mad is that the emipre was this fucking close to finally taking Constantinople, it was almost a sure thing, but no, the faggot anglo had to intervene on behalf of fucking turks. Hagia Sophia will never be a church again. I will never be not mad.
Nah. The Hagia Sophia is genuinely beautiful, I can appreciate good christian architecture and design when I see it. That Reims Cathedral literally looks like it's covered in a thick layer of dirt and grime. It looks like a fucking mess.
Dumb cracka christianwashing histry now
The Hagia Sofia is a flawless example of that Islam actually is: parasitic. Only the minarets were built by Muslims.
The Atlantic powers have tolerated the eternal roach for too long. Turkey was supposed to collapse in the 1700s but the French and British prevented Russia from controlling the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straights. And accessing "their" waters in the Mediterranean. As a result muslims still have a foothold in Europe and millions of Europeans died, including millions of Armenians, Greeks, and Slavs in various massacres leading up to the period of outright genocide.
Russia is going to take Constantinople. They are the carrying the torch of Byzantium. Moscow as a "third Rome" was the founding principle of the Russian Empire.
Trump and Putin are leading Erdogan into a trap.
I think Russia and America should be like Rome and Constantinople
And by divine justice the west will become an islamic shithole. God has a plan for all.
>Anglokikes
>Europeans
Pick one
It's them that backed Turks with their whole empire after Roaches have been stopped by Russians 5 times and Constantinople was ready to be taken
Truly the eternal Anglo feasts on white blood
>Why did Western Europe/Catholics essentially side with the Ottomans?
liberals
next thread
Its cool if God is real Hagia Sofia will be church once again. If not then who cares if its mosque or whatever.
1) Westerners didn't side with the Ottomans. Byzantines were too full of themselves, though.
2) Maybe. I have no idea how "they/we/you" percieve Russia. Power wise the Byzantines weren't as powerful as the Russians.
3) No, it was not a cancer needing elimination much less to purify Europe.
The Byzantines were already pretty isolated as it were. Westerners looked at them as competitors with somewhat ridiculous we wuz claims. Those ridiculous claims were pretty legitimate though.
They were ridiculous in the sense that they didn't actually command Imperial Authority out of their borders.
Even a few Kings in during the Reconquista claimed Imperia Authority in order to rally the other Kings of the Peninsula under them.
I dunno. Some Turkish girls make me raise a minaret in my pants after the Fall of Constantinople.
Is this a joke?
>girl
>I do think that the Catholic Church liked the idea of a monopoly on Christendom.
The idea was/is that Christianity must be united. There can only be one leader.
Both Popes claimed to be the leader.
After WWI the Greeks lost against the Turks because the Greeks were stupid a la pic related.
The Greeks invaded fucking Anatolia instead of taking (by then close to majority Greek) Constantinople, in Europe.
It was a terrible mistake.
>Are you retarded?
Please user, quit shit posting and get out with that meme flag.
Not true.
This, Byzantium fell because it was politically unstable and emperors spent more time being assasinated or murdering their rivals than territorial integrity. Look at the how the Komenos fell, it was due to intrigue.
SOURRRCEEE!
Byzantium was *better* than anything we had on the West, mate.
That credit is due.
There were valid reasons why they considered themselves superior to us.
They shouldn't however have been so arrogant when they needed us that bad.
You are blue pilled.
The Western Pope was right.
>Doesn't know about Anzu
And yet, "some Byzantine nigga" even converted to Catholicism and recognised the Pope when they requested our help.
Except for being built 1.000 years previously and what not...
Yes it is. First day on Jow Forums ?
>heeding the Byzantines' call for aid
never happened
They sided with the Bosnian and Albanian muslims against the Serbs.
They sided with the Bangladesh muslims against Myanmar, and they armed the mublims for invasion.
They sided with the Turks and stopped the Russians from retaking Constantinople 3 times in the last century.
They are allies to Turkey and Saudi.
"Anglo-Persian Oil Company" was a real thing.
Muslims freely roam the streets of the UK and rape whoever they wish.
Coincidence?
They literally redirected an entire crusade to attack the byzantines.
>The Fourth Crusade happened the way it did because the Catholic Church couldn't pay its debts to the Venetian Italijews for organizing the crusade and the Venetians had a vendetta over the Latin Massacre in Constantinople a couple decades prior
>The Genoese were money-grubbing Italijews that didn't mind taking a fee to ferry across the Bosporus an Ottoman army
Those are the only times I can really think that the West fucked over the ERE. The Fall of Constantinople had many Genoese and Venetian volunteers defending Constantinople so it wasn't always a fight.
Nice CV, user.
1) It's (((America)))'s fault.
2) It's (((American)))'s fault.
3) It was important to stop the Russians for geopolitical reasons
4) We are all allies with Turkey in NATO. What's the deal with the Saudis?
5) Yeah, that's (((America)))'s fault.
If you weren't hiding behing that meme flag we could compare what was the position of your country relative to those British positions.
But we all know it is probably (((America))), making you 1000 times worse than the Brits you complaint about.
In reality you are more like the Mongol Horde and he Khazar Khanate.
>It's (((America)))'s fault.
Literally how?
YOUR OWN FUCKING POLICE FORCE HELP THE MUSLIMS SUPPRESS THE BRITISH
>being this retarded
People need to understand that when we discuss the ERE - an empire that lasted approx 1400 years - we can't regard it as a monolithic entity or state. There were good emperors, bad emperors, magnificent emperors, and emperors that were utter and complete cunts, and greedy corrupt cunts at that.
Two people were instrumental to the fall and utter destruction of the ERE. pope leo the 3rd, and charlemagne. Of course the islamic horders delivered the final blow, but leo3 and charlemagne were the traitors and gravediggers that buried the ERE.
European history is marred by the petty quarrels of England, France, and Germany, over financial and political power and prestige.
Hundreds of millions of Europeans have died exactly because of the rivalry among these 3 countries.
England hasn't won the title Perfidious Albion over nothing.
Why can't Catholics just abandon the pope and Catholicism and come home to Orthodox Christianity? Why support a man (the pope) and an institution (the Vatican) that swayed away from Christianity because of their greed and lust for power?
The rules of the game is that the U.K. must become like America and follow it around.
Yeah, too many in Britain take too much pleasure in destroying it to the ground.
But America is behind all this that has been happening in Europe since WWII, and especially since the Soviet Union fell and the Russians stopped supporting the commies.
Just stick around and watch the levels of degeneracy America is imposing on Poland and Baltic States.
America, (((America))), potato, potato...
1) America led the bombing of Serbia and favoured the Bosnians and Albanians;
2) America was the one crying out the loudest for muh poor Rohingya
4) America is the driving force behind NATO and the ones who invited Turkey in; Regarding the Saudis, America has a much more promiscuous relationship with the Saudis than any other European country. And this given the fact that America suffered the 9/11 happenings.
5) America is behind multiculturalism in Europe and (((freedom of religion))) in the Western world.
Dude, there have been wars Serbs sided with Ottomans. It's just that modern view on Catholic/Orthodox thing don't match the historical truth. In reality they probably cared a bit, but far more important reason were the gains of this and that lord.
its a cathedral look it up
...
When did Catholics side with Ottomans?
Protestants sided with Ottomans against the Catholic oppressors.
protestants seem to be an all around antiwestern pest
French-Ottoman alliance is basically the most interesting alliance in the 16th century
They just didn't want poor countries to leech off their hard work.
How the fuck do you complaint about Pope Leo III and Charlesmagne?
They are not Byzantines. What happened? Genuinely interested in hearing you out.
Perfifious Albion is what people call it after being schooled by it. I really can't complaint about their historical "mission", I can recall many things they did wrong, of course.
We won't abandon the Pope and go for Orthodoxy because that's not realistic.
Also, the Pope seems to be the more legitimate. Although I know it can be argued against, I am not convinced yet.
More importantly, the Catholic system makes more sense than the Orthodox one with multiple "Metropolitans" or whatever.
Their "sway away from Christianity" is expectable and the same can and has happened to the Orthodox.
Don't come around pretending that you are more imune to human corruption and weakness than us.
You are only more imune to the trends because you've had less power than us in the last 500 years.
As I see it, we'll eventually come around under a Pope under a mixed Catholic/Orthodox system after all (most?) of the heresies are cleansed.
That Pope will be based in Rome and the Holly See will predure.
holy see is babylon you fck
They disagreed on whether or not they should use leavened or unleavened bread during communion.
Also the nature of Christ.
And they sowed ill will when the crusaders sacked Byzantium and ruled it for 70 years.
Pic related: it's a book on the history
Based.
Try harder.
SeeAndYou know damn well it was the Catholics who backstabbed the east.
The Catholics did NOT side with the Ottoman Muslims. You have ‘enlightened’ Protestant Europe to thank for that.
Realpolitik. My enemy's enemy is my friend. A country's natural enemy is its neighbor. Its natural ally is itneighbor's neighbor.
Basically, the western degenerates were greedy for land and were willing to sell out Christianity for more clay to steal.
The catholic church has officially decreed dictators as evil, and works to undermine people who work to netter their nations.
Catholics are pro democracy, and therefore must all die. Every single one of those God hating boy raping faggot pigs, may satan drag their vile souls back to where they belong. Death to the pope, death to democracy