Is he right, Jow Forums?

Since when has “working” ever been a choice? I don’t get it.

He is free to fuck off and live off the land in the woods in a state park.

There are stories of men who have done it for 40 years without getting caught my park rangers. Return to nature faggot.

Basically every economy is based on an exchange system. I'll trade this to you for something of equal value. It's worked well for god knows how long.

Theoretically we could operate on a pure communist notion of "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need". However human nature drives us to maximize gain/spend ratio meaning I want to get as much out of this as possible by giving minimum effort. At best you will get people who do just enough to satisfy their boss with no real progress in society.

The real test of a communist is telling them to move to a communist country and see if they'll do it. If not then they truly prefer the perks of a market based society.

You have to work to live, that's nature.

You do not have to work for someone else's benefit to live. That is slavery.

Attached: 1536304295648.jpg (1264x712, 317K)

These people have never had to pay bills, or feed a family they have always been given money from mommy and daddy so they think the world should run the same way

>communism is about never having to work at all
>in the Soviet Union, literally nobody had to work for a living

Attached: Strawman_e85117_6468456.jpg (1200x1114, 101K)

"Work" is defined differently through different eras. Neanderthals had to work by hunting and gathering. Serfs had to work to please their Lords for protection and housing. We have to work to be able to purchase housing and food. Work has always been a part of human history. Nigger commies btfo

I somewhat agree, the main issue here is that I cannot go and chop down trees, build my house, and hunt for the rest of my life because its someones land and I will ultimately be told "no" by the government

He is

Attached: BDC828C7-FDA5-49D8-9A10-2003D9882AE9.png (780x800, 146K)

you don't have to work to live. earth provides you literally everything you need. everything else is voluntary transaction, EXCEPT for taxes and government coercion.
At the end of the day, that's why commies are always going to be "the bad guys" in any kind of metaphysical moral context. They're the tyrants holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do their bidding.

It's unfortunate that preppy, snobby city people don't know how to hunt, grow or build, and as a result feel trapped by the economic system they've built. But it really is THEIR problem. And maybe if they're so miserable they should stop looking down upon the so-called "rural retards" and other people who are doing just fine and don't feel any of the feelings of being trapped and enslaved that they do. Maybe they should be looking to us for advice rather than spitting on us. Until that changes, they won't have my sympathy.

UBI is actually just a way for corporations and governments to cement control over you.

What follows UBI is mass marketing/coercion to force people to buy things that those in charge want them to buy - a command/planned economy in function.

That's what all this corporatism is barreling towards, it's what globalism is ultimately going to transform into: global communism.

It's going to be hell. Your great grand children will be working as indentured slaves eating mealworms and living in hovels packed like sardines. Because the gross mismanagement of resources won't serve the people who need it, but those with the power to parasitize and take it.

We're heading towards gigadeaths within the next few hundred years if we don't change course.

Tell that to the cavemen thousands of years ago. I'm sure they were thinking the same exact thing.

Attached: 1457082490647.jpg (464x640, 55K)

Everyone has to work to live. Even rich people. It is a different form of work.

he can beg
he can live in europe or canada
he can rob people
he doesn't need to work to live

>looked at him
>didnt read the sign

No, he’s wrong.

>be a communist
>don't respect labor

Where did commies go wrong?

He would still have to work for the rats and the garbage

His basic premise (whether he realizes it or not) is that other people owe him the their time and effort to provide him with things he needs to survive. They don't, hence he has the same choice we all have:

Work to support ourselves, or die. That's life. Always has been, and always will be. The day he accepts that will be the day he grows up and leaves his childish angst behind.

Also:
>Freedom =\= freedom to do everything always

well someone still has to do all the work so that people get food, housing etc. you stupid fucking moronic communist
>oh waah waah the fact that you have to work to live is oppressive
that's simply a fact of life and not oppression, you fucking retarded fuck
that's like saying that you are a slave because you have to breath with your lungs to live, well fucking deal with it you pussy because fighting and working to live and survive is literally what life is

Attached: Socialism.png (480x406, 118K)

they didnt say natural selection would be fair.
fields.

fpbp

if you have to stand idly by while commie nignogs ruin your country so the fed doesn't suicide you, is it really a choice? If you have no choice are you free? Freedom only exists in a society where the people are great and just, otherwise freedom is suicidal and ultimately impossible

Attached: hitler.png (1218x342, 176K)

lol the leaf know what's up.

Diogenes lived in a barrel and jacked off onto Alexander the Great's face, so what?

le communism spook.

Did you read my post? I already mentioned that governments create billions of dollars out of thin air. Governments force currency on us by fiat. They usurp billions of dollars worth of effort and work every year and spend trillions. It's not just governments, either - it's the economic system as a whole.

A UBI doesn't need to increase state power at all... all it does it hand the money immediately over to PEOPLE in a distributed sense...rather than centralising it by allowing banks to loan the money out, creating an indentured system and debt-hole that everyone has to work to maintain.

If anything a UBI would mean LESS state power.

Here's a question.

Is it reasonable or fair that:

Mary, an 18 year old born to millionaires will never have to work in her life because she was given investments that earn her $400k a year? That she can consume vast amounts of products, expect to be protected by the law and by other people complying with the law, etc, WHILE...

Mark, an 18 year old born to retard boomers will have to start work immediately in low-paid, low skill, possibly dangerous work because his parents didn't provide a basically functional home for him to even study for university?

These are real people I actually know (fake names). It's not fair and it's not right. Mary can only earn what she does because of wider society and the labour of others. It would make more sense to give Mary and Mark a more balanced amount of money so both can contribute CREATIVELY without needing to either shill themselves out to corporations OR to live off the labour of others.

The alternative is that someone else works so that you live. Why should you be permitted to leech off of others without contributing anything to society?

>other people should work, so i can do nothing.

He is wrong, if no one worked we'd all die

Humans have been working to live since the dawn of civilization. We worked to gather the food we eat and build the shelters that keep us warm. This has never changed throughout human history. Even lower animals work to survive. Birds don't go flying around for fun.

We are free to just give up and starve to death or die from exposure. And even then, your body will not have any of that, and will make you feel hunger and shiver to motivate and keep you going until the last minute.

lazy fucking neet

Attached: stu of this shit.jpg (559x568, 20K)

>if you have to work to live
But that describes communism too

Attached: w23p9zj55puy.jpg (1200x1587, 238K)

You have the choice of living secretly in a national forest. Goodluck surviving eating berries, shitty plants and small game. Even you have to "work" for your food and shelter.

Best post itt
faggot would be doing hard labor in some hellhole after the "revolution"

I don't get why more lefties aren't egging on the right to get back to work and pay for all this shit, again and again, while exploiting every loophole on the upswing

womp womp womp

Attached: cringe compilation.jpg (680x499, 46K)

UBI will ONLY work with ONLY one condition.
Robots literally take all our works.
That’s it. In era where human don’t have to do shits. UBI will be the best solution.

Freedom is for faggots.

Edge

@185193387
below human posters don't get (you)'s

>not getting his message this atrociously hard

He is absolutely free to live in a lean to in the middle of the woods and snare squirrels for his meals. He is not free to live in a nice apartment in some boho neighborhood in one of the most expensive cities in the country with a brand new iphone and designer skinny jeans paid for with my money.

We had to work for our food.

b-b-but gommunist barty will neber owen worker :DDD becos i said so in muh gommunist book

t. karl marks tsagan xDD

I choose to work. I could not work and still live, though with obvious differences.

false dilemma fallacy

Not all of us can mooch off our parents all our lives kid.

Sage

This fucking verbal diarrhea.

>He's right, but he's not offering a meaningful solution. We need UBI or something like it.

No, we need to limit population growth. You don't understand how humanity works, every time we invent something that increases our productivity, we don't work less, we work the same and the population explodes. This will keep happening, humanity simply grows to match it's productive output and the only limitation is how much misery we are willing to tolerate. Thus, humanity will ALWAYS be on the edge of happiness of and misery regardless of whatever technological inventions we invent to make our lives easier.

So he wants other people to give him supplies without him having to provide anything of value in return. I hope he eats broken glass while getting raped by feral niggers.

still....
the only way to "live"
WITH ZERO EFFORT
is to be in a coma and fed and kept alive by machines

You're a moron

This is kind of true for work-for-hire or contract services, and in fact I've heard people in those types of work refer to renting their skills out. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove, the reality is that for a regular employee, if they are in an "at-will" employment, either side can terminate it at any time. If they are in a place that does require a notice period, I would guess that for the employee they are allowed to forgo the notice period if they pay a penalty to the employer, so they are never legally forced to work. Similarly, contracts have early termination clauses, which disincentivize a contractor from terminating early, but don't make it illegal.

So, why exactly is the Libertarian becoming Luke Skywalker?

eberything fre in gobunesm lol. gib me all capital goyim lol

t. ((( Karl "zero hours worked in total " Marx)))

*snap*

Is this an argument for fascism?

I would love to see him sentenced for thought crimes to 65 years hard labor in Siberia.

Fags like this overlook that it isnt some business or governement man arbitrarially saying you must work to live, its REALITY dictating that you must. Just as capitalism is an naturally emergent process, so is work within one such system.

>tl;dr employees must rent themselves out or be forced out of their house or not eat. It isn't that the person can just stop renting themselves out, because there are dire consequences for that. Instead, the person is forced into renting themselves out to immediately give that money to other capitalists in order to live.

This faggot could always choose to KYS

>that image

yes, but it is the individual that freely "rents" his/her self
oops, the whole premise of it just collapsed

You still have to work to stay alive. Whether it's hunting in the woods for your food or getting a job so you can buy food.
The irony is that communists don't even work.

appeal to accomplishment
appeal to force
etc

Its not a false dilemma. Society is something humans create through effort, it takes effort to maintain because nature is always trying to destroy it at all times. He is free to do whatever he wants and other people will be free to react to it. If he goes off and starves to death nobody will really care and it will be his choice to do so. Or he can enjoy the comforts of a modern life by putting in the requisite effort to yield it. Humans, like all animals, will always be burdened with labor in order to survive, that's simply the state of existence.

not everyone does
consider those born into wealth, who never have to do any activity they dont wish to, other than being educated

false dilemma:
2 choice presented as only possible options, when in fact there are others

What is the message then oh enlightened one?

>tl;dr if you don't work you will die

Well, this has the been the reality for every single organism on this planet for the last billion years

If you have
To eat
To live
Do you have a choice?
Are you free?

...

>I have to work growing food to live
>am i free?
you're free to starve

>when the commie has no rebuttal

>false dilemma fallacy

Yup, that's what OP was using.

>muh communism
*tips tinfoil*

...

Its hard to starve when grocery stores are forced by law to throw out perfectly good food daily.

welll technically an ogre that lives in a swamp and feeds on insects does not need to work for live

Under this definition, the oh-so-hated CEOs are also being rented - they have an employment contract with the company, which usually has termination procedures that are something like a majority vote by the board of directors (who are also rented by the company).

He may be a whiny faggot but at the same time I read a thing somewhere that we evolved working around 25 hours a week to hunt and then later to farm. If that's correct then we work more for less now, no doubt. I think most normal people are programmed genetically to have a lot of fuckoff time

no, person in OPs image was illuminating that fallacy of our existence

as silly as that image is, im pretty sure it refers to all workers who are at least 1 tier removed from the "top"

If you wish to remain among the living, there are in fact some natural requirements. There's nothing I or a government can do about that.

OPS wher did all fod go fugg XDDD

t. Soviet Minister of agriculture

lol not real gobbunism gib capital agen goyim

t. fellow goblinist

>These are real people I actually know (fake names).
So ask Mary to subsidize Mark you retard. You want to point a gun at her and demand she give her money to Mark so he can live so just do that directly you colossal pussy.

Freedom doesn't equal being babysat

Be a NEET

pls gib fre mony i do gommunesm lol

except for those people born into great wealth
the rest of us should have been wise enough to have chosen such a family before we were conceived

He does work. He has to make and maintain his hovel and acquire all the food he needs to live. There's no other real competitors for resources initially so this isn't that difficult, but as soon as one shows up he has to go on a bullshit quest to maintain his shit hovel life. All of that is work.

the guy you respond to meant "be employed"