Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage and the socialist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
The bourgeoisie are the class which owns the means of production but does not use them you can think of the means of production as anything 'used' to generate profit e.g. a factory, a shop, a car, machinery, etc if you own means of production but are self-employed, and do not employ anyone else, then you are not bourgeois if you do not literally own means of production but in effect control it, you are bourgeois (e.g. CEOs who do not literally own their companies, but as they run the company they 'own' it in the sense that they decide what is done with it, they decide their own wages, etc) a good litmus test: ''1. do you work for a wage? 2. do you get to decide your wage? 3. do you get to decide anyone else's wage?'' if yes to 1 but not to 2 or 3, you are not bourgeois if yes to 1 and 2 but not to 3, you are petit-bourgeois if yes to all three, you are in effect bourgeois if you do not work for a wage at all, but rather own the means of production directly, then you are absolutely bourgeois
If you own a small shop that you run for a living making 50k USD a year you are petite bourgois. If you are a heart surgeon making 150k USD a year but you work for a hospital and you aren't in charge of hiring of firing anyone you are fully proletarian. Labour aristocracy maybe but still proletarian. It is not a question of income, but a question of ones relationship to the means of production.
FAQ for washed liberal-morons, kekistani edgelord teenagers and normal people who simply do not know much about communism:
1. Communism is the USSR. The USSR is a socialist state, not a communist state.
2.1. Why, then, does the Communists all the time refer to the USSR? Because the USSR is our historical experience of the practical construction of a communist society. We highlight the positive aspects of the experience of the USSR and study the negative experience. It is also worthwhile to understand that the USSR is for us a certain significant Symbol.
2.2 Communism is a dictatorship Under communism there are no classes, accordingly there is no dictatorship.
3. What about the dictatorship of the proletariat? The dictatorship of the proletariat is a temporary form of political power called upon to ensure the observance of the rights of the proletariat during the transition from capitalist society to communism.
4. But Stalin ... With regard to the period of Stalin's rule, we can identify a lot of positive and negative aspects of his activities. But unfortunately, all-round propaganda has distorted the history of this period too much, therefore, without a comprehensive historical analysis of this period, it is impossible to draw unambiguous conclusions on the basis of ALL declassified documents.
5. And yet Stalin ... We adequately perceive the figure of Stalin and treat him normally and without hysteria. Nevertheless, Stalin - though significant, but by no means the main figure of the communist movement.
6. What is the main figure, if not Stalin? Marx
7. Ie you are not Communists, but Marxists? Communism is part of Marx's teaching. At present, Marx's teaching has evolved into many directions. As for the precise definition, the terms "Communist" and "Marxist" often very much depend on the context.
8. Communism is the antithesis of democracy. By no means. Communism is just a true democracy.
There will always be a ruling class. The state will never wither away. The means of achieving perfect equality do not exist and never will.
Josiah Scott
On The Labour Theory of value. All value that is created is the product of labour, from clothes and shoes to watches and diamonds, all is an expression of the value creating power of labour. By itself, cotton is worthless, yet through the value creating power of labour, a coat is created, and that coat holds value purely due to the transformative power of labour. The more intelligent among you may notice that diamonds were previously mentioned and may ask yourselves: 'how can this be a product of labour? A diamond is valuable in and of itself!'. Incorrect, a diamond in the ground is of use to no one. Yet it is through labour that the diamond is removed from the ground and becomes valuable. Thus we can deduce that all value is product of labour.
Funny how every commie always thinks they'll have some great job and position in the party, when in reality most of them would be lined up and shot or forced to work in hellish conditions.
On The Oppression of the Working Class. Now that we have established that value is created through labour, let us turn our eye to the modern capitalist system. We can ask this: 'how can profit exist when the labourer is the creator of value?' Indeed, what has the capitalist done to create value in a product? The only answer: he has done nothing. He has not toiled like the labourer has, the value is not created through him. Yet, the capitalist sells the product at a price greater than the true value, the labour value, taking this money as his own. He then pays the labourer a fraction of the price. The labourer has now been left with less than he started with. He may have sewn a coat sold for $20, yet was only paid $5 for having sewn it. Profit is slavery.
Comrades, rest assured, it is only a matter of time before the oppressed wake up to their oppression. This is class consciousness. The knowledge that the oppressed is better served siding with others of his class, in the west we call these the working class. Class consciousness will ultimately see the collapse of the capitalist class. Realising the slavery they have been living under they shall rise up, seizing the means of production to create a future of the workers, by the workers, for the workers. Free from oppression. The dialectic is in motion, class consciousness grows. Workers of all lands, unite!
I hope your children are bravery and smarter than you and will gladly spit on your grave.
Ryan Cook
Labour Theory of Value (LTV):
Non arguments:
>If I dig a hole in my backyard and then fill it in I used labor but made no value! Commies BTFO!
Marx clarified (unlike adam smith) that only socially necessary labor (labor used to produce a commodity with use value) creates value. This is also the case if you spend 1000 years making a bed.
>Nature can create value as well. If an apple falls from a tree then value is created without labor
Marx also noted nature could create value.
>if labor determines price why is coca cola cheaper than bottled water?
Labor doesn't determine price. It determines value (not exchange value or use value) and correlates with the equilibrium price.
Machines cannot create value. If I make a machine that makes diamonds out of thin air then the value of a diamond falls below that of bricks now that they can be aquired with no work what so ever. Price might not fall because you can still manipulate supply and demand but value certainly does.
Some definitions.
Use value = How useful an object is. Exchange value = Market value of a commodity. Different from use value. You can sell a beanie baby for 200$ but it is almost completely useless. Value = the amount of congealed labor withing a commodity.
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liguidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
----------------------------------------- Da sdages of gommunism.
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis
>Sdage for Not real gommunism. Move on do nexd coundry XDDdDDD
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liguidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
----------------------------------------- Da sdages of gommunism.
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis
>Sdage for Not real gommunism. Move on do nexd coundry XDDdDDD
Here's the difference because clearly you're retarded. /leftypol/ is for *gasp* left wing politics. If this place were called /rightypol/ you'd have an argument. But this is for ALL politics. THIS. IS. NOT. YOUR. SAFE. SPACE.
How do you justify that every time Marxists have attempted to build their Socialist societies have lead to a catastrophic loss of life, most of whom were just regular people and not your capitalist/bourgeoisie enemies. How do you reconcile working class control when every Marxist Socialist country was couped into existence by middle class pseudo intellectuals like Lenin, Trotsky and Mao?
How do you in your implementation of Marxist-Socialism manage to prevent creeping inefficiencies and oversized bureaucracy in Centrally Planned economies, a core pillar of the system?
Do you support democratic/collective management of Businesses, resources and/or society? If so, how do you reconcile claims of of your particular brand of Socialism being Scientific Socialism with the fact that having a majority of people thinking something factually incorrect makes them politically correct in any collective/democratic management?
How can you claim your movement to be a movement for and by the people and built and lead by the Working Class, when every leader of a Bolshevik coup and taskmaster of Marxist mass murders have all been members of the Middle class such as Lenin, Trotsky and Mao?
How do you justify Egalitarianism in a world in which no two people are equal in any one thing, until at least death?
Robert Cooper
Accidentally doubled up on questions there. Ignore the fourth paragraph.
Jackson Jackson
dude dude dude stop not real communism swoosh
Chase White
Kill yourself, but before that, read marx and realize how fucking gay and wrong he was, nigger faggot
Landon Reed
>western commie worshipers Ayy lmao
Dylan Perry
marx wrote a lot of words so that means he must be right
What mother land? You hate nationalism, which is love for a perceived homeland of your ancestors. In fact communism loves globalism and mixing of cultures. There is no mother land in the ideology.
This proves how retarded the new left is. Holy shit these fuckers ruin my reputation as a filthy leftie.
Connor Harris
Pretty sure those are New Left fags
Camden Gonzalez
Hm, picture makes me homesick for a time I barely remember
Anthony Campbell
Orthodox Lefists are Fascists now, never forget that because the so-called "new left" won't let you forget it.
Thomas Baker
At least im not a retarded leftie. I'm only Socially Far-Left while Economically Centre
Juan Brooks
Why do I feel like that was NATO Bombing?
Cameron Roberts
Yeaa, meeting social need, best example of meeting social need is Ukrainian Holomodor in 1932-1933. Actually, thanks to that there were less poor people, they died, but HEY, social need was meet.
Ethan James
DIE
Cooper Parker
Market Socialism > Progressivism > Conservatism > Marxism > New Left
Leo Jenkins
Israeli invasion of Lebanon, 2006.
Not really NATO, but kinda NATO
Jordan Howard
You don't need death squads if everyone starves to death.
>When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
wrong. If we are going to make sweeping generalizations about workers/capitalists, then allow me one as well. When the "capitalist class" is liquidated you'll have two classes: those with power and those without. And those without will not have any protections against the party.
How can work a system that doesn't understand the nature of the human being? Tell me what a man is and then tell me how you think he should live in a society. Marx and Hegel went totally offoroad and you are still here piling up stupidity on an already humongous stack of ignorance. Good job.
These commie retards think the state will wither away if we make it larger. The only way we get rid of states is by shrinking the size of the government
>will gladly spit on your grave. Good luck getting to his children then, you cretin.
Matthew Myers
You know how you determine if something has value? If someone is willing to part with goods to trade for it or part with money to obtain it!
There is no other quantifiable means of assessing value that take into every single other factor in the economy. It's way too complicated to figure out how much things are worth without markets.
Daniel Harris
The hammer is for you're balls and the sickle for you're feminine penis. This is all you need to know about communism children.
Matthew Carter
Kek, I don't give a fuck. You are the minority in your movement, most of those fags are antifaggots and will do everything they can to shit on the actual workers and import lazy niggers and even be glad to disposess and give away the peoples goods to these parasites. As long as you don't wrest the control from these fags communism is and always will be fucking gay.
Hudson Nguyen
Marx forgot to tell us about the Jewish masters over the working class
Samuel Brown
Gib gommunist waifu. Can be cute trap with skilled mouth pussy.
Which nation? All surviving socialist/communist nations are fucked
Benjamin Edwards
Your personal beliefs professed here do not alter the state of your general "fring"-sphere in politics. Heck, even most of the (relative to democRATS and Conserevacucks) extremists of the left aren't on your side and would much rather curb to multiculturalism and self-hatred along with an almost slave-like self-subjugation of their peoples for the globalists they claim to fight. I know neo-nazis are a joke too, but Antifaggots are on another level. Get rid of these faggots, have a lefty group burn their cars in retaliation for burning cars of ordinary citizens like it happens all too often in Germany and your ideas may rise up again. Instead you'll just jack off to some theoretical ideal that basically no one shares much like the DOTaRds and RaHoWhacks.
Post your face when you realize your stupid fucking ideology would fail because of ubermensch like myself? Leftism is a joke, and you faggots that follow it are the punchline.
Well, shit, then what you have to say probably isn't worth much. I mean, heck, my parents lived in DDR. Pretty normal, but more or less all governments have been "normal" for the ordinary person when not in collapse.
Brandon Brooks
What was life in poland like?
Nicholas Clark
It's fake & homo tho. Not only is the account not actually Antifa, but also the picture posted is just a stupid art project. Don't call yourself a leftie, you gullible faggot.
Dominic Bailey
>being a godless commie Hell is for ever!
Jayden Wright
Nah fuck off antifa cunt. You are just as retarded as the alt-right
Landon Thomas
Also you say you are "communist" yet you attack the government and the state
Thomas Miller
It was pretty normal and better then what came after it Everything was just different, different social norms and different ways Culture was completely different pretty comfy there was no massive wealth disparity even ruling caste wasn't that much better off then regular people everyone had roof over head and food everyone had job, even if those were fake jobs where you do mostly nothing other then showing up this caused productivity to be shit but for example average meat consumption was better under communism then for a long time after it fell and that is with food stamps and long lines to get it and meat was of better quality then today all things considered it had many flaws but it wasn't that bad for normies mind you those were times with some free market activities, that tended to patch up all holes in market it was illegal to be poor thou, that helped a lot no drugs, open faggotry and different values for normies it was OK
>muh 'two extremes' meme Where tf did I say I'm a communist?
Gavin Nguyen
>Where tf did I say I'm a communist? The flag next to your ID proves that statement
Henry Wright
Genuine questions for any of you comrades.
People oftentimes criticize communism for being an ideology that stifles innovation. In a capitalist system, if I have a great new product that I think people will like, I can raise some capital, stake some of my own, take a risk and build a business around this product.
How would this work in a communist system?
I’m not making the argument that there is no incentive for innovation. Innovative people will always innovate. Rather, how would one follow through with one’s idea and bring it to fruition? Would you have to defend your idea in front of the Party in order to get the resources to make it happen?
Currently, if I think my town could use a Mexican restaurant, and lots of people would go to it, I can raise money and start a restaurant. If it fails: that sucks for me. What about under communism tho? I can’t simply say “I want a Mexican restaurant” and it gets built the next day. Would the town as a whole be allocated a yearly amount of money for the operations of “businesses” and we’d all vote on which ones we want and which not, or something like that?
Easton Baker
My parents lived through Yugo. They said it was a good time until Tito died, everyone had a roof over their head and you had the freedom to do anything.
Charles Smith
Save everyone the trouble and end it all now.
Jose Baker
The problem is that you have people voting on shit. Democracy is an idol.
not anything, but anything normies do for non normie activities you had to stick to system Communist party was not this solid block, there was strong opposition within it So there was one party but it worked same as one parliament today with different groups and opinions within it Important thing is that Polish, Czechoslovakian, Yugoslavian and similar communist parties were not that authoritarian and they were nationalistic They moved far away from marxist model by late communism so economy wasn't completely fucked
