I find that more often than not people hate socialism / communism because of retarded misrepresentations by capitalist porpaganda.
let's have proper, civil discussions about this, I probably won't be able to clear all your doubts, but you can ask anything about socialism.
socialism being the collective ownership of the means of production.
I'll ignore meme flags and people talking about social democracy as if it was socialism.
alright, let's go.
nigga u gay
Kremlin slide thread - do not reply, let it die!
venezuela
For the same reason I'm not a capitalist, because there are things more important than economic class.
>100 000 dead
Yes, lets keep trying that retarded experiment again.
sage
Okay.
Let's start with you, why should I like Marxist socialism?
To give you some benefit, I'll explain why I don't like Marxist socialism and it's all to do with neo Marxism which I'll accept is actually closer to fascism (protectionism of hierarchical systems via state enforcement) than true Marxism. You see, the young people here realised it's not actually some middle class/lower class distinction in the west, there's far too much social mobility. It's actually intelligent vs unintelligent, which can only be elaborated or rationalised as white male vs non white male. In essence, the white male will attain success far more easily than the non white male, therefore if "equality" is to be achieved the white male must be excluded from employment and ostracised by society until they're removed from the gene pool due to being incapable of raising enough funds for children.
I am an intelligent white male and I do not appreciate how Marxist fascists treat me and people like me.
Except it's never collective ownership. There's always someone at the top who is living off the hard work of the collective. Leaders of all of the Eastern Bloc countries lived like kings while preaching the virtues of the workers' struggle. In their minds, they probably deserved all of the luxuries because "helping" the peoples' revolution is really hard work, but to an outsider, it was just the Russians trading the white boot of the tsar for the red boot of the communists, while the boot still stomped on their face.
youtube.com
Instead of listining to so called "acedemics" of socialism or communism, listen to this man whos sole job was to deceive and infultrate different countires politics and change the way of social programming with communism and socialistic polices. And no, before you call me a capitalist, I find many things wrong with how capitalism is being used in the U.S by the Oligarchs. I do believe that certain things should be changed on how people accumulate wealth, but everything he describes in this interviw is literally happening before our eyes.
>why do you hate socialism / communism?
It's Jewish.
It's anti-White.
>I find that more often than not people hate socialism / communism because of retarded misrepresentations by capitalist porpaganda.
So Communism isn't Jewish and anti-White?
>let's have proper, civil discussions about this, I probably won't be able to clear all your doubts, but you can ask anything about socialism.
Why should Whites adopt a Jewish and anti-White system?
I can hear you out on the economic arguments, but any ideology that is anti-God must be destroyed
>1 post by this ID
Stop bumping this thread you tards
I'm a heterosexual man of european descent, but I appreciate your concern.
Venezuela has not seized the means of production.
there's private property of the means of production so whatever happens there, happens under capitalism.
that's literally why those empty shelves pictures exist, the owner of the companies that produce some of those food products have purposefully stopped supplying in protest, hoarding their products in their storage houses.
yeah, you're gonna have to expand on that.
I don't like the USSR that much but I really don't know what you're talking about, they didn't live a life of luxury while their people starved.
if you think so you're gonna have to provide source, I'd like to see what this opinion is based on.
>Venezuela has not seized the means of production.
Better check that math son, and see me after class.
>Venezuela has not seized the means of production.
Collective ownership of means of production is Communism.
Venezuela is socialist, not communist
kys faggot
Still waiting for you to address my post
I don't know what you're talking about since socialism / communism have nothing to do with race whatsoever.
I'd recommend you to go to a therapist.
>It's Jewish.
>It's anti-White.
nah, socialism has nothing to do with race or culture.
>So Communism isn't Jewish and anti-White?
nope.
>Why should Whites adopt a Jewish and anti-White system?
it isn't.
please explain how the socialism is "anti-white" or "jewish".
it's not anti god.
I'm replying mong, calm down.
Its because the chance of failure is high.
Mao did Communism and did the "great leap forward" and millions died.
Stalin did Communism and millions died.
North Korea is Communist and its a 1984 styled shit hole
Castro did Communism and I forgot how many people died but it is clear people didn't like him because when he died in 2016 everyone was cheering because of it.
It seems as if Venezuela isn't doing all too great either as of now.
>please explain how the socialism is "anti-white" or "jewish".
It's Jewish in its creation, beliefs and implementation.
It's anti-White because the Jews are anti-White.
It's anti-White because Communism wants to destroy race, family, history, heritage, culture, tradition and faith.
Communism wants to turn the White race into soulless mutt automatons.
How is Communism in any way, shape or form pro-White?
Hey you! Yes, you.
Annoyed with these low effort shill threads? Want to send the people behind them a message?
Vote Republican in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION ON November 6. That's 52 days away.
Remember...Every. Single. One.
Get every single sane person you know in real life and on the internet to do the same.
>It's Jewish.
>It's anti-White.
nah, socialism has nothing to do with race or culture.
>OK buddy. Keep believing that.
>Venezuela has not seized the means of production.
Funny, I thought that was the definition of "nationalized" when we're talking about industries.
If you really want to flip your shit, I'll point out that in another country in the past, key industries were nationalized and owned by the government on behalf of the workers, while smaller businesses were allowed to exist. They called it National Socialism, but most people just said "Nazi."
>communism is not anti god
So if I want to give money to my church so we can build a bigger steeple, you’re all for that? What if I leave all my belongings to the church when I die? Can I give my pastor/minister money/food instead of bringing it to the communal storage facility?
I don't know what you're talking about, Venezuela literally has private ownership of the means of production.
if you disagree you're gonna have to provide some sort of info.
nope, socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production.
communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society, and it's supposed to be achieved through socialism.
under socialism there's no private ownership of the means of production, in Venezuela you can still buy means of production and hire people to work for you, you probably won't do it for obvious reasons, but you can do it, therefore it's not under socialism.
just for the record, whether their leaders are socialist or not is not what we're discussing.
Sure, ill start with exploitation...
Don’t worry pal. I’m voting straight ticket Republican for the first time in my life.
I appreciate your efforts
Take a wild fucking guess you retard.
Okay, you're a degenerate living in 50 years ago.
Socialism cannot have anything to do with economic classes anymore since getting into university (in most Western countries) is more dependent on marks and merit than cost.
Your revolution will never happen if you focus on economic inequality because in the west poor people have net flix, nearly free internet and cheap food. You're all westerners as well, you're all spoiled westerners.
So the Marxists found other people who were easier to convince were oppressed. These are "minorities."
Marxism has become an outright fascist movement with white men as the scape goated jews and a hierarchy from minorities to trans muslimas as the proletariat. Marxism failed economics so now they're abusing identity politics.
Calling me insane isn't an argument. It's an ad hominem and demonstrates you cannot win this.
show me a functional communist country that you would like to turn your state into
So how do you expect we’ll prevent people from bartering or hoarding wealth for personal gain in your communist society? If I make whisky form wheat I glean from the field (which would’ve rotted anyway) and trade it for firewood are you going to punish me?
>inb4 it's not real communism.
Remember: Salvador Allende hated Jews, then the Jews put Pinochet into Office.
it was worth it for all the free helicopter rides
>let's have proper, civil discussions about this, I probably won't be able to clear all your doubts, but you can ask anything about socialism.
Nigger, you clearly dont know where you are. Also, fuck off.
>its not anti-white
I guess the Jews and I have enemies in common
Correction, we hate Marxist socialism, Democratic Socialism, Globalism, and Communism.
National Socialism is fine
Remember: Marx, Lenin and Trotsky were Jewish.
>National Socialism is fine
Speak for yourself faggot.
Why should I give a fuck about some retard just because he shares a border with me?
That's why Stalin and Hoxha were better.
>That's why Stalin and Hoxha were better.
Stalin fucked a Jew, was surrounded by Jews and made anti-Semitism a crime punishable by death.
This
Fuck all socialism. Fascism has its perks, but socialism is retarded in any form.
>people died
yes, in revolutions, people tend to die, nobody complains about these deaths when they talk about secession wars for example, but they demonize socialism for it.
but in any case, capitalism kills many, many more, pro capitalist have killed 30,000 people in my country alone in the name of anti-communism, backed by the capitalist superpower USA.
again that's just in my country.
>It seems as if Venezuela isn't doing all too great either as of now.
read the thread, I'm not gonna explain this over and over again.
you're gonna have to explain why, otherwise you're just saying "x is y", and it means nothing.
>How is Communism in any way, shape or form pro-White?
it isn't, race isn't a factor in the ideology.
>Funny, I thought that was the definition of "nationalized" when we're talking about industries.
they haven't seized the means of production, they've nationalized like 2 companies or something.
that's it.
god isn't the church m8
you can worship any god you want.
>I find that because I am a communist many people wrongly think I am a dumbass...even though my mommie punched my face away from her teat because I was a needy leech of a dumbfuck that sucked on teat long after I should suc on a teat...I am an embaressing dumbfuck...it is who I am...
>you're gonna have to explain why, otherwise you're just saying "x is y", and it means nothing.
Jews are inherently anti-White. There is not a single pro-White Jew in a position of power, authority or control.
All Communism has done is harm the White race, because Communism is Jewish.
>it isn't, race isn't a factor in the ideology.
So you admit Communism doesn't care about the existence or survival of the White race?
So therefore Communism is anti-White.
>socialism and communism are the same thing
No wonder why your country is economically shit, it has brainlets like you.
He also blamed Jews for his failing health and executed them.
>but socialism is retarded in any form.
I bet you're one of those types that claim National Socialism and Marxist Socialism are exactly the same thing, aren't you?
Do you believe the Holocaust happened as well?
>He also blamed Jews for his failing health and executed them.
holy shit. You're so fucking new you don't know how to reply to a post.
Hint: You click the post number of the post you want to reply to.
Did you literally just come from whatever Communist website that sent you here?
Are you being paid by the post?
actually im too drunk and lazy, read chapter 12 of marxism by thomas sowell, he logiclly dismantles marxism. sage
>its not anti-white
Didn't Hitler take control of the National Socialist party in Germany and made it super right wing.
when you dumbfuck...I MAGA...ty
It's not hate. Communism is just not feasible.
You cannot enforce communism because once you do it stops be communism.
>Didn't Hitler take control of the National Socialist party in Germany and made it super right wing.
Find out for yourself:
>when you dumbfuck...I MAGA...ty
So you're supporting a Zionist who puts the Jews and Israel before Whites and the USA?
>its not anti-white
I don't know why you'd want me to do that, but let's go with Cuba.
see, this is the kind of misconception generated by retarded propaganda I was talking about.
bartering? you can buy and sell whatever the fuck you want under socialism.
hoarding wealth? yes, you can keep your money and your stuff.
>If I make whisky form wheat I glean from the field (which would’ve rotted anyway) and trade it for firewood are you going to punish me?
no, why would anyone punish you?
we punish the people that own means of production and exploit others, not the ones that use means of production themselves.
so? Hitler had jewish origins himself, didn't he? that doesn't mean it has anything to do with an ideology.
try and look at the ideology on its own, not that complicated.
seek help m8
that's not an explanation, all you keep doing is repeating "it's jewish and anti white" without a proper argument.
I can do that too: you are a jew.
>So you admit Communism doesn't care about the existence or survival of the White race?
I admit that Communism doesn't care about the existence or survival of any race whatsoever.
never said they were the same.
communism is socialism.
not all socialism is communism.
not that complicated, but you can insult like an angry 12 years old who's actually wrong all you want.
>nah, socialism has nothing to do with race or culture.
You sure about that?
>I don't know why you'd want me to do that, but let's go with Cuba.
Your quality of life is so shitty that you think THIS is an upgrade?
>that's not an explanation, all you keep doing is repeating "it's jewish and anti white" without a proper argument.
So you deny that...
...Marx, Lenin Trotsky were Jews?
...Stalin was fucking a Jew, was surrounded by Jews, made antisemitism a crime punishable by death?
...the first Soviet government was mostly Jewish?
...the Bolshevik revolution was Jewish?
But somehow despite all that, Communism isn't Jewish?
And of course the Jews are anti-White. You can't name a pro-White Jew or pro-White Communist.
>I can do that too: you are a jew.
No, I'm not a Communist.
>I admit that Communism doesn't care about the existence or survival of any race whatsoever.
And that's why its anti-White. So why should Whites partake in an ideology that supports its genocide?
>so? Hitler had jewish origins himself, didn't he?
No he didn't. Hitler was not a Jew.
>that doesn't mean it has anything to do with an ideology.
Of course it does. Communism is Jewish because it was created by Jews. National Socialism is White because it was created by Whites.
>try and look at the ideology on its own, not that complicated.
It's anti-White and Jewish in its beliefs though. You yourself have admitted it doesn't care about the existence of the White race.
Well this thread is going nowhere.
Allende WAS a Jew you lying commie faggot.
Communism is supposed to be the ascendance of the proletariat but its always middle class wankers that espouse it. Unless you're perfectly willing to give up all pretensions towards leadership and leave it all to the locals down at the trailer court, fuck off hypocrite.
>socialism being the collective ownership of the means of production
Vague/ill-defined. You can designate pretty much anything you like a "means of production". Be specific.
>Well this thread is going nowhere.
Just like Communism.
National socialism falls into this
Sounds just like this horse
You're a dirty commie fuck, your system has been consistently tried and always fails, usually ending in the death and suffering of millions. Your utopia is nightmare dream that can never exist and every attempt ends in a hell on earth. Take your propaganda and die somewhere cold and alone.
Socialism is the idea that government can spend your own money better than yourself. It dictates how much you are going to pay for healthcare, how much you are going to pay for school, etc. They basically create a monopoly by dictating where your money goes. That creates alot of inneficiences and corruption as well, especially in third world countries.
Nobody spends someone else's money as carefully as they would spend their own.
what you call capitalism is a form of communism but you are too retarded to see it.
Stop the embargo so I can go back home, my friends are still there
>why do you hate socialism / communism
Labor theory of value a shit. Entire concept only gets worse from there.
Haha Yes!
Communism starts with great enthusiasm and then people like OP get lazy and it all falls apart.
What a great analogy!
Red should be dead
sage
>cherrypicking an image
those people have better healthcare and education than the average amerimutt.
think about that.
you need help lads.
yes, democracy is a big part of socialism, well done insulting.
no, it's not ambiguous.
it means private property, which has a different definition under socialism than it does under capitalism
all land is considered means of production/private property.
private property is anything you make a profit from another person using it to generate value (like a machine in a factory that makes a specific product like a shoe that you sell).
you can ask me more about private property under socialism if you have any doubts.
it literally doesn't.
Please kill yourself you fucking lefty fag, preferably by moving your ass to Venezuela and dying from hunger there.
Because I grew up in the USSR? Because my family was vrag naroda or lishentsy. Some were executed even. He'll, decossackization and dekulakization effectively ruined whole branches of the family.
Anyone who sympathizes with socialist or communist politics effectively tells they are completely divorced from any of the atrocities committed and have no interest in rectifying their lack of information.
inb4
>BuT tHaT'S NoT REal CoMMuniSM
>your system has been consistently tried and always fails, usually ending in the death and suffering of millions
you're gonna have to be more specific.
capitalism has failed in more states and killed many more people than communism by the way.
>Socialism is the idea that government can spend your own money better than yourself.
>Nobody spends someone else's money as carefully as they would spend their own.
what the actual fuck are you even talking about?
you spend your own money, are you being retarded on purpose or something?
have I been trolled?
>no explanation whatsoever
why do you people keep doing this?
if you're gonna make a claim like that you have to explain why.
why is the labour theory of value shit according to you?
>yes, democracy is a big part of socialism, well done insulting.
No I'm quite serious. You haven't a clue what rage exists within the working class and how they'd rip your balls off given half a chance -- not because you're a communist but because of your fucking pretension and condescension. Its easy to sniff out the false note. Give er up.
>capitalism has failed in more states and killed many more people than communism by the way.
How can you be this fucking stupid?
>it means private property
>private property is anything you make a profit from another person using it to generate value (like a machine in a factory that makes a specific product like a shoe that you sell).
>all land is considered means of production/private property
And this is supposed to sound like an appealing idea to people?
>you need help lads.
Hey, you're the one promoting anti-White Judeo Communism on Jow Forums.
I mean you're literally promoting the genocide of the White race but you think I need help because I oppose you?
Because i have read about it and i cant find the wonderful results in commie countries just suffering, especially amomg the people they say they want to save.
>Literally the most murderous and oppressive ideologies in the 20th century
>Retarded propaganda
sage
>no explanation whatsoever
Prices are entirely subjective.
A glass of water is worth a lot to a man crawling out of Death Valley, and are entirely worthless to someone who's fleeing a flooding river. The labor involved in attaining it has little bearing on its worth.
Marx wasted most of his life trying to pursue some Platonic ideal of an absolute "value" for commodities unrelated to this simple concept, because he knew his ideology hinged on it.
can you people have a conversation?
seriously.
you're saying literally nothing.
>tells they are completely divorced from any of the atrocities committed
socialism wants to erradicate slavery of the working class.
if people oppose to this liberation in a violent way and people end up dying, the ones that were in the wrong are the ones that supported the subjugation of the lower class.
I'm a worker.
I don't care what you think of me based on some posts I made on a laotian image board for cambodian cartoons.
nah, you need help because you have mental issues.
Communiggers tongue my anus
Oh Hey! You're back!
So, question:
Why do laws exist in the first place?
>nah, you need help because you have mental issues.
So because I tell the truth about Judeo Communism being anti-White and having the desire to genocide the White race I have mental issues?
But you being an anti-White Judeo Communist who supports the genocide of the White race doesn't need mental help?
Doesn’t work dumbass
>I'm a worker.
Not the same thing as class.
>I don't care what you think of me based on some posts I made on a laotian image board for cambodian cartoons.
It hardly matters. You get established what you think you want and the real proletariat you obviously don't understand will have you lined up quick along the wall. They've a list and long memories and they don't give a fuck about allies except as a stone to step on since they were treated the same throughout. Go on "worker" do your best.
it's the exact same glass of water, it can't have more than one value.
it has a value and that's it.
whether a man is thirsty or not, the cost of generating this glass of water is exactly the same.
and the value everything has comes from the production of it.
all value comes from labour.
that's it.
where are you going with this?
the bourgeois state has laws to enforce their status as a higher class.
with no state there's no armed forces (police, army, etc) that keep the working class in check and they can break free from the slavery that the bourgeois established.
yes, you have mental issues because you hate an entire race/culture based on absolutely the most retarded reasons.
not only that but dismiss in ideology as being "jewish" even though it has no mention of judaism whatsoever in it.
you're blinded by your retardation.
>But you being an anti-White Judeo Communist who supports the genocide of the White race doesn't need mental help?
see, you have issues.
>they haven't seized the means of production, they've nationalized like 2 companies or something.
OK, so they're doing a piss-poor job of seizing the means of production.
But they're still seizing the means, just slowly moving towards 100%. Have you seen the pictures of the empty store shelves? They seized the oil, then seized foreign companies, then mandated that wages can't be lowered, then mandated that prices can't be raised. That's an awful lot of seizing, just using different verbs to describe it.
>you spend your own money, are you being retarded on purpose or something?
Government takes your money away through taxation and spends it however it likes, you don't choose where it goes. You spend about half of your money depending on where you live
That's where you're wrong kiddo!
>you're gonna have to be more specific.
capitalism has failed in more states and killed many more people than communism by the way.
Capitalism has never killed anyone. Capitalism is the free and willing exchange of goods and services. Which, by the way, has given rise to the most prosperous time in human history. Other shit can get mixed into it and cause problems, but that's not capitalism. This brain dead idea that the rich are stealing from the poor is ludicrous. Wealth isn't s zero sum game and you can't sell to people with no resources.
Communism makes people equal but poor; it also kills anyone who disagrees as a part of its implementation. It removes human choice from the equation.
As to your request for citation, get a real argument! You didn't provide any and I'm not going to fact check for you. You have Google, use it brainlet.