In that respect, Obamacare is deadlier than the NRA. People should keep that in perspective. The cold reality is that medical errors kill more Americans every year than guns, cars and alcohol combined. COPD kills 149,000, but firearms are below 34,000 annual deaths. Only cancer (611k) and heart/arterial disease (585k) kill more people than firearms. Even that very large number may only be one quarter of the actual number of medical error deaths, since cause of death codes allows doctors an easy way to obscure errors.
Every year, good Americans use guns about 2.5 million times to protect themselves and their families, which means 65 lives are protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. This is telling when so-called ‘gun deaths’ are first broken down into categories. At least 2/3 of firearm-related deaths are suicides. Gun homicides must then be categorized as justifiable, accidents, negligent homicides, and murders, so where crime is concerned, that means even more lives saved by the defensive use of guns for every life lost to the criminal misuse of guns. Where the use of guns for self-defence is concerned, it should be noted that most of the time a shot is not fired.
>At least 2/3 of firearm-related deaths are suicides. And don't forget that a percentage of those suicides are caused by stress and depression due to overwhelming medical bills. Many of the suicides are also caused by the stress and depression caused by the breaking up of a family due to financial troubles...many times due to overwhelming medical bills.
Camden Watson
Nobody cares about facts when it comes to firearms, how long until you understand that? Get a fucking grip already, you're trying to reason with people who hate YOU on an reptilian level. It's NEVER going to work. Reason and evidence are INEXISTENT to them.
It's about "emotions" and the only to gain the morale high ground in this case is through violence.
Asher Clark
Well, you know, when I'm not plotting acts of terrorism, I'm shitposting.
Medical bills that become impossible to pay mostly due to lack of jobs and a crippled economy, exacerbated by programs like Obamacare. Loss of employment is also a risk factor in terms of health and family instability.
Jace Sullivan
number one is still abortion
Oliver Jenkins
How many abortions are there per year?
Brody Harris
OMG we need to ban assault doctors
Jacob Green
bump
Adrian Rogers
Mmm the bait
Carter Smith
Around 700k
Jayden Cox
I knew I didn't want to know that, but I asked anyway. When will I learn.
>34,000 annual deaths 2/3 of that bullshit is suicide which is no business of the government to begin with. The other 11,000 are mostly niggers killing each other. Something like 2-3k are non-niggers making white-america as safe as the civilized parts of europe.
>which is no business of the government ehhhhh. no. someone has to clean up the mess and do a investigation. otherwise they' d start labeling everything a suicide.
Cameron Hill
Everytime someone dies in a hospital, a doctor gets away with it. If you are trained to save lives and people die under your care, you are no different from a murderer
Dylan King
they're more concerned with the loss of tax donkeys than some 10 minute investigation and a mop-up job. Whether someone chooses to clip themselves is not an issue of concern for the government. Besides, the clintons have suiciding down to a fucking science.
i didn´t say it was innocent, but it is illogical to compare it that way. Doctors most of the time try to do it good. When they fail which is legion. Disaster appears. But comparing it to someone who is getting a weapon and decide. >i don´t like you so if you don´t defend yourself you die today. Is erroneous and dishonest.
Luis Roberts
Yeah, suicide is a crime
James Miller
>but it is illogical to compare it that way Funny, often fun control proponents argue all death is bad
Are you insinuating that i am saying that death is not bad? The difference is one is on purpose the other isn´t. There is a flaw in your thinking. Whatever it is you should be worried about that because this won´t be the only way in which it manifests.
Isaac Cox
>The difference is one is on purpose the other isn´t. T I'm just saying anti gun people like to say all deaths are equally bad, and that's why defending yourself with a gun is not ok. But now your argument suggests deaths aren't equal.
Austin Johnson
>I'm just saying anti gun people like to say all deaths are equally bad, and that's why defending yourself with a gun is not ok. But now your argument suggests deaths aren't equal. Again with the polar argument. Your brain or atleast your thinking process is majorly flawed. You do not process logic normally. There is two flaws i always detect in people such as yourself. a) inability to accurately make comparisons b) being subjective rather than objective c) assuming you are correct and being unquestioning of your own conclusions.. when it´s so evidently clear you are not. >I'm just saying anti gun people like to say all deaths are equally bad, and that's why defending yourself with a gun is not ok. See you don´t understand your own malfunction, it´s interesting. If someone attack you and you defend yourself and kill that person. It´s different than if you go out and kill a person, and all those nuances.
Nathan Hughes
Deaths by medical error: >250K-500K every year, according to various university studies Deaths by firearm: >30K every year(2/3 suicide) Homicide by firearm: >Less than 10K every year
>your thinking is flawed because of the way you are thinking which has a flaw Fucking what
>If someone attack you and you defend yourself and kill that person. It´s different than if you go out and kill a person, and all those nuances. Yes, and?
Eli Fisher
There is no organism that is equal in this world, in the animal kingdom or even between ethnicities, there is only some are more similar to some than they are to others. Yes you have a mental defect in your thinking. >Yes, and? Your conclusions are falsely drawn. You are logically incorrect. Let me give a litany of basically malfunction of the logical component in your brain for whatever reason. >doors aren´t 100% effective. Someone can with enough force and using different tools smash the tools and get in. So why even have a door it´s stupid. They do same thing about the planned border wall. >well the wall wouldn´t be 100% effective, they can find a way to tunnel under it or get over it somehow. So might aswell not have it whatsoever. It´s laughable but they really feel that way. It´s insane the lack of logic. Here´s another one. >you can´t be 100% sure that your wife isn´t going to get raped by some stranger when she´s walking around. So don´t object to it or try to prevent it. Because you can´t stop it in any way. You are boorish people because you are incorrect and you claim you are correct.
Benjamin Turner
this is how bad your logical processing unit is either damaged or indoctrinated to a sort of inharmoneous orchestra of messing things up. You cannot even differentiate intentional processes from unintentional. you equate them!
Easton Sanchez
>There is no organism that is equal in this world, in the animal kingdom or even between ethnicities, there is only some are more similar to some than they are to others. Yes, correct.
>the rest of your post star making sense right fucking now. I don't know if you need more English lessons or what, but you aren't communicating whatever you think you are.
Evan Walker
>You cannot even differentiate intentional processes from unintentional. you equate them! Like I said, you need more English lessons
Jose Cook
You are a brainlet and you think you are smart this is why you think you are always right. You never scrutinize your own conclusions. Smart people always scrutinize and find a flaw in what they are doing. In other words you are a fucking moron i think is the nomenclature for it.
Hunter Stewart
See. Another logical malfunction. When someone attempts to correct you you rush to pride and vanity of what? being stupid? you proud to be stupid. Go ahead!
Josiah Stewart
>i didn´t say it was innocent It was worth pointing out regardless. >Doctors most of the time try to do it good. That's an interesting assumption. Why would you assume that most doctors "mean well"? There are millions of doctors and research scientists behind the pharmaceutical industry, the chemical and biological weapons industries, the abortion industry,etc, etc. Are they motivated by idealism or profit?
this is the same bullshit arguments that liberals make when confronted about terror attacks. >more people die in car accidents than islamic terror haha racists btfo i'm pro gun but this argument is bullshit, you cannot equate the two numbers.
>more people die in car accidents than islamic terror But how many of those car accidents are Islamic terror (trucks of peace)? But seriously, cars and firearms are tools, not murder cults. The medical industry is driven by profit, and often causes harm. Tools are ethically neutral, professions and cults are not, and legitimate targets of moral critique. If leftists start with the premise that tools are moral agents (subject to critique) but classes of individuals are not, then they concede authority by comparing car accidents to islamic terror. Its like when they attack you by calling you gay, implying that's a bad thing like the homophobes they are supposedly in Jihad against. Ultimately, the Left are amoral and don't have first principles. I won't tie my hands against an opponent who cheats in order to "feel good" about myself. There is no "high ground" against amoral enemies.
You got to wonder how many were truly accidents. Im near terrified to go under or take prescriptions. Sure it is paranoia but if the glow in the dark niggers or (((they))) wanted me dead it would be the perfect way to take myself or anyone out, with no questions asked.
Asher Thompson
Most guns are owned for the purpose of self defense. It could be argued that most gun ownership is for the purpose of good as well.
Jose Taylor
>The absolute delusion of gun fags.
Ethan Nelson
>assault doctors Fucking paladins.
Luis Bailey
Then grab your gun when you have cancer in your 60s or sky high blood pressure that gives you a heart attack.
I'm not helping your ass, I'll go save minorities that bring soul food to my clinic
And how many gang members need to be murdered per year or home intruders need to be shot in self defense?
How about how many people need to get their gallbladder removed? Or be on antibiotics? Or take their medication like a not retard?
You should be looking at number of errors per trial. In EVERY homicide someone dies. Not every medical procedure has someone dying.
Furthermore, these people ARE dying. From an illness! The doctor is trying to stop that. Some don't succeed!
That's like someone trying to stop a boulder from being rolled onto someone but they aren't strong enough, and the person dies. Then you go and blame the good Samaritan who tried to stop the boulder.
>these people ARE dying. From an illness! The doctor is trying to stop that. Some don't succeed! Oxycontin has never saved a life. Dr. Richard Sackler not only made billions selling oxycontin death to millions, he patented the cure for opiates. He's selling epidemics and their cures. Now promptly return to weighing out grams of "CBD King Kush" Tyrone.
Tell every single one of your doctors after every major surgery you get in the future that you do not want pain killers, otherwise you are a total hypocrite.
Also, doesn't matter if 45% of doctors are crooked (let's expand your argument absurdly in your favor). You'd still have a miserable number comparing lives guns yearly have saved to the lives the 55% of other doctors save on a daily basis
My logic holds just fine.
Levi Moore
>Tell every single one of your doctors How many doctors do you think I have? >after every major surgery you get in the future The liver transplant surgery I get because of my oxycontin addiction after a root canal? >that you do not want pain killers, otherwise you are a total hypocrite. You're in no position to talk about hypocrisy if you're defending the current medical industry. You can't deny the examples of outright malice (and indifference at best) at play under the current state of things. You're unable to take the moral highground while ignoring these examples I've given. Do you think Oxycontin pills just jumped down the throats of millions on their own?
Yes, a gun is a tool just as much as a knife is. And if people think knives can´t kill. Well. Being stabbed is a lot of mess compared to a projectile with regards to surgery. The point is most people have guns for self defense not because they plan on killing someone with it. So i agree with you. >That's an interesting assumption. Why would you assume that most doctors "mean well"? There are millions of doctors and research scientists behind the pharmaceutical industry, the chemical and biological weapons industries, the abortion industry,etc, etc. Are they motivated by idealism or profit? If you want to critique unethical practices of the medical field that´s one thing and i would agree with you on that that this should be dealt with/is a glaring issue. But don´t try to as somone said to compare someone intentionally trying to kill someone with medical doctors not being able to cure every person who comes in with an illness where they maybe fuck something up or don´t get the right treatment. Medical doctors it´s like.. it´s a really fucked up field because you see things that no human should see on a regular basis. There´s a lot of medical doctors that take up smoking aswell why? they of all should know it´s fucking terrible but it´s like the cope of cope. The mess they walk into especially trauma surgeons. >ah someone bust a cap in that nigga ass Yeah and now they are at hospital and if you don´t save him and he dies. Then it´s YOUR FAULT now not the one who tried to turn him into swiss cheese. This is the ridiculous argument. By comparing those kinds of deaths. Exactly.
Nicholas Wright
It´s unintentional vs intentional. They do the same thing with car crashes. >well car crashes kill more than so and so crime or terrorism or whatever. So therefore terrorism or so and so crime is not an issue. Stop complaining you bigot. ONE IS INTENTIONAL THE OTHER IS NOT! The intentional one is the fucking issue here!
Cameron Bennett
I don't go to the doctors, smoke or drive, so my six-pack of IPAs doesnt seem so bad after all.
Ayden Cox
>If you want to critique unethical practices of the medical field that´s one thing and i would agree with you on But I named more than one thing, and they were all macro scale "systemic" examples. >If you want to critique unethical practices of the medical field that´s one thing At this point its absurd to simultaneously acknowledge that entire industries rain scientifically augmented opiods on the population, and money is the force that supresses all moral outrage, especially from the medical professionals themselves, who continue to "go along to get along". We're talking about industries PLURAL: Entire industries relying on doctors exist for no purpose other than to cause harm. People can go on and on about doctors "meaning well", but clearly, by and large, they don't behave as if that is the case. They behave with indifference as a general rule, and malice if you consider that most of them have demonstrably high enough IQs to be aware of the negative consequences of their professional contributions to human suffering.
Tell me how a Dr. Richard Sackler not only exists in the current system, but has wings of the Louvre and other nation museums around the world named after him. The cognitive dissonance is intense: >"they told me doctors are good guys, i won't ever doubt that even while acknowledging literal hell on earth at their hands".
Also doctors like any other field are competent or less competent. And even a person whom you might think is a good doctor with a good track record can easily miss something. New diseases are discovered which they don´t even fucking know about. It´s a procedural field. Lot of illnesses medical science is totally unaware of including of how to treat aswell. A lot of this is also due to the patient. Some half ass doc who is swamped or have a lot of balls juggling gives him a clean bill of health. But the patient still feels something. Patient just says ok guess nothing wrong with me. OFCOURSE THERE IS, otherwise you wouldn´t have symptoms! Patients need to be persisent to or 3 times or more if necessary and see different doctors if necessary to find out what it is. You know your body better than the doctor. So if you are having symptoms don´t just say well doc says i´m fine. Famous last fucking words. Also you would be surprised how much things are fault of the patient precisely like this. Even when illness identified. Take antibiotics. Some person comes in with illness that require antibiotics. It´s somewhat decently diagnosed. .The person halfway through the course of the treatment decides. Well it seems to be working. I guess i should have a few beers. And oh i´ll resume the pills couple days later. What they are effectively doing is IMMUNIZING THE BACTERIA and creating superstrains of that shit resistant to that antibiotic instead of eliminating them. That they can then become carriers of and spread to someone else. Doctors make mistakes like any other field, you are to be expected to if they miss something as a patient to keep pushing till they find out what is going on with you if you experience symptoms and they can´t find out. There´s even departments of new diseases you can be sent to if a normal doctor can´t establish a diagnosis for those purposes.
Juan Harris
Lol doctors are so incompetent. That's going to be a fun one to add to the purge list.
Julian Reyes
yes there are major bad things going on in the medical field these days totally unethical totally wrong. And totally against the hipocratic oath. However. Don´t try to say if you go to a medical doctor he´s trying to shoot you in the fucking head like a gangbanger and compare those statistics like some are trying to do itt. You have to understand people don´t go to a doctor because there´s nothing wrong with them. Infact there´s a chronic thing especially with males that they wait WAY TOO LONG to to go doc to see if there´s something there that needs looking at. However people just doing their thing don´t expect to get shot in the head.
Ryder Walker
I assume all doctors are incompetent. It's worked for me so far.
Aiden Smith
>However. Don´t try to say if you go to a medical doctor he´s trying to shoot you in the fucking head Don't waste time with strawmen. All I'm arguing is that the medical industry doesn't mean well. They're indifferent at BEST, that's objectively true. Our exchange started because you made the claim "most doctors mean well"; there is no evidence that they do.
>implying you should breathe water instead of asbestos No, they're both bad for breathing. =]
Camden Sanders
>Don't waste time with strawmen. All I'm arguing is that the medical industry doesn't mean well. They're indifferent at BEST, that's objectively true. Our exchange started because you made the claim "most doctors mean well"; there is no evidence that they do. I agree with you. Large parts of the medical industry are operating in total violation of the hippocratic oath. And should be held accountable for that. Also i´m not making a strawman i´m arguing that the strawman is made that medical doctors are on purpose trying to kill you. Like some gangbanger doctor. Oh the prescription is i shoot you in the head. All your problems of health have now gone away enjoy the afterlife or whatever happens next. That´s just ridiculous.
Daniel Walker
>Also i´m not making a strawman Do you even know what a strawman is? Its when you pretend I'm making the argument you want to reply to, not the argument I actually made. I never said a doctor will try to shoot you.
I never said you made the strawman, i said several people in the thread made that strawman.
Grayson Young
This last person I knew that killed himself used a belt because he couldn’t find his cousins pistol he was also trans but that’s neither here nor there
Alexander Bell
Also, are there any doctors in here? I have an ingrown hair on my back that I can't reach myself. Is it worth paying a doctor to pop it or is it not really a big deal? I'm not worried about aestetics, just healthwise. Do I gotta worry about it turning cancerous?
Jaxson Howard
The strawman argument that is made by some ITT that since medical malpractice kills more than firearms. Doctors are more dangerous/out to kill you. It´s similar to in general to car crashes. people don´t get in the car thinking. Oh i´m going to run someone over today. It´s intentional vs unintentional. Regardless of the problems in the medical profession which i agree should be talked about more and a big conversation should be had about these matters.
Carson Johnson
Dude, the entire medical field is a fraud. You have no argument.
Grayson Flores
>Dude, the entire medical field is a fraud. You have no argument. So nobody is ever cured of anything if they go to a doctor. Well physician heal thyself then!
Grayson Taylor
We just need to limit magazine rack sizes in waiting rooms.
Lucas Scott
I do heal myself. I've been to the doctors twice in 25 years and both times were unnecessary in hindsight.
Kevin Johnson
185997029 No (((you)))'s for bots Bump for the truth
Angel Roberts
>The strawman argument that is made by some ITT No, it was made by you in your reply to me.
Henry Baker
The simple fact of the matter is that as the medical industry becomes more diverse and more like the general population it becomes more dangerous just like the general population. Diversity is bad for hospitals. We need family-business style medical care. Like when we had guilds before the government made it illegal to practice medicine.
Nicholas Richardson
The problem is the massive Boomer population needing constant medical care and all the incompetent single mothers who fled to the field. I will not go to a doctor's office until the boomers all die off + 10 years.
Sebastian Butler
>Self-defense If you're at the point of needing to defend your life with a gun, you should be trying to kill them.
